Sunak faces Tory meltdown as deputy chairs back Rwanda bill rebellion

[NextG]

5 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I can hear your cornermrn shouting.

 

" Chomper, Chomper, twist, turn, you've got to get off the ropes"

 

 

Why are you so often posting utter bilge?

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, NextG said:

Why are you so often posting utter bilge?

You appear to have confused me with someone else.

 

[NextG]

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

You appear to have confused me with someone else.

 

No. It’s you. But let’s not continue this exchange. 

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, NextG said:

No. It’s you. But let’s not continue this exchange. 

I don't post bilge. You may think I do, but I don't.

 

I'd like to see some examples of what you think is " often post bilge".

 

Thanks.

Edited January 17 by youreavinalaff

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I can hear your cornermrn shouting.

 

" Chomper, Chomper, twist, turn, you've got to get off the ropes"

 

 

 

Ad hominem.

 

 

 

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Just like you do.

 

Legal Immigration

 

Illegal immigration

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/stop-the-boats-now-second-biggest-concern-of-tory-voters-poll/

 

 

"Asked to choose three challenges ministers should prioritize, 66 percent of 2019 Tory voters said the cost of living; 41 percent said illegal migration routes such as small boats; 37 percent said NHS waiting lists for operations; and 25 percent said ambulance and A&E wait times."

 

But instead the voters, ?169% of them?, chose four challenges.

https://www.politico.eu/article/stop-the-boats-now-second-biggest-concern-of-tory-voters-poll/

 

 

 

Edited January 17 by Enoon

[Screaming]

I find it interesting that the left wing, socialist, globalist Labour Party members want to damage the sovereignty of their nation. Its as if they are on a death wish.

[CG1 Blue]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

To be fair, the internal Tory opposition vote is itself split between those in the moderate center of the party who know the Rwanda Bill breaks international law and won’t work and the rightwing extremists who don’t think it goes far enough.

 

The Tories are at war with themselves as the Government stares down the barrel of annihilation at the coming General Election. 

 

Here’s a curious circumstance:

 

The Tories know they are going to lose, they know replacing Sunak now isn’t going to win them the election. 
 

The fight is therefore over who is going to run the Tory Party in opposition.

 

A large Tory defeat plays into the hands of the rightwing extremists making it very much easier for them to take control of the party after the election while blaming moderates for the party’s losses.

 

Meanwhile, as Tories squabble, the nation flounders.

 

Same same for 14 straight years. 

 

 

You discredit yourself by using the the term 'right wing extremist' too often. You should look up what an actual right wing extremist is. 

Calling these MPs right wing extremists is like calling every Imam an Islamist extremist. 

 

 

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

And they are most probably correct.

 

IMO the biggest problem is France as all the illegals have made their way from their home countries, into the "relative" safe haven of Europe. Many of them will travel further across Europe, ignoring the safe haven of the EU countries to the shores of France, where they get transported across the English Channel to the UK.

 

They believe that the streets of the UK are paved with gold and where they believe that they will be given everything that they need or desire.

 

I know it is not an easy question tp answer, but where do they get the rubber boats, engines, fuel, life jackets etc from? They obviously don't bring them from their home countries, so where do these things come from?

 

Presumably there is a big business supplying them, and whoever is selling them must be making a lot of money.

 

Obviously, smarter people than me must have worked out where the stuff comes from, so why have they not cracked down on the suppliers?

You want to make it illegal to sell rubber boats etc to them? That kind of measure is always so effective.

[Georgealbert]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

However he has the same rights as you, I or anybody else to post on any topic that he wishes.

 

You have the same right to read his posts as everybody else. If you personally don't like his posts, you have the option of skipping over his posts thus ignoring him, putting him on your ignore list, or formally complaining to the moderators about his posts.

 

The easiest and simplest thing to do is put him on your ignore list.

 

I agree with a lot of his posts and disagree with a lot his other posts, probably about 50/50, and some that I disagree with I respond to and discuss.

 

What I try my best to avoid is insulting the poster.

 

It you personally don't like his posts, then don't read them.

You seem to say he has his opinions and they are valid, but I can’t have an opinion about what he says and reply.

 

I have zero on my ignore list, because I do not censor opinion, but that means when someone posts nonsense, I reply, or do you support censorship.
 

I offer facts and links, but that poster just says IMO so he does not never have to back up his posts with any facts or truths.
 

Do you really think my post was insulting him? 
 

Have a good day, but please stop trying to censor my views, on an out of touch racist, terrorist supporting serial poster.

 

Remember in your own words “If you personally don't like his posts, you have the option of skipping over his posts thus ignoring him, putting him on your ignore list”, so you can apply that to my posts, if you want consistency. 

[The Cyclist]

34 minutes ago, Screaming said:

I find it interesting that the left wing, socialist, globalist Labour Party members want to damage the sovereignty of their nation. Its as if they are on a death wish.

 

Illegal Migration.

 

I find it interesting that the ones actually in Thailand are not marching at the IDC in sandwich boards and megaphones demanding the release of the illegals held in the IDC.

 

Legal migration.

 

I also find it interesting that they cannot put forward a cogent arguments on

 

* How to build a city the size of Manchester every year.

* The associated infrastructure, Schools, Hospitals, Staffing etc.

 

* Who funds it

 

* Cry over the raising of the financial threshold from £18,000 to £28,000. Can you live in the UK on £18,000 a year as a new arrival.  Or does that mean handing out more taxpayers money on top up benefits ?

 

* The list is endless.

Edited January 17 by The Cyclist
Add text

[RayC]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

But which party should replace them and why?

 

Given our electoral system, Labour are the only viable alternative.

 

Why Labour should be elected is a harder question to answer as it's unclear what they stand for. Perhaps, the most convincing answer is that they can't be worse than the Tories (can they?).

 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Why on earth are you mentioning Empire? Talk about Strawman. That's more like a StrawArmy. 

 

Still, if it makes you feel better about yourself to imagine everyone else thinks like that then you go for it Champ. Don't let reality get in the way of your jaded world view. 

 

I didn't mean to hit the nerve quite that hard, Jonny. Sorry about that.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Screaming said:

I find it interesting that the left wing, socialist, globalist Labour Party members want to damage the sovereignty of their nation. It’s as if they are on a death wish.

That’s a remarkable claim, for which I doubt you have any credible evidence, but do give it a go.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

You discredit yourself by using the the term 'right wing extremist' too often. You should look up what an actual right wing extremist is. 

Calling these MPs right wing extremists is like calling every Imam an Islamist extremist. 

 

 

I think people who argue for removing the UK from international human rights laws and the ECHR in order to enact laws that they have been advised will in any case break UK law are rightwing extremists.

 

Feel free to differ.

[RayC]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

And they are most probably correct.

 

IMO the biggest problem is France as all the illegals have made their way from their home countries, into the "relative" safe haven of Europe. Many of them will travel further across Europe, ignoring the safe haven of the EU countries to the shores of France, where they get transported across the English Channel to the UK.

 

They believe that the streets of the UK are paved with gold and where they believe that they will be given everything that they need or desire.

 

I know it is not an easy question tp answer, but where do they get the rubber boats, engines, fuel, life jackets etc from? They obviously don't bring them from their home countries, so where do these things come from?

 

Presumably there is a big business supplying them, and whoever is selling them must be making a lot of money.

 

Obviously, smarter people than me must have worked out where the stuff comes from, so why have they not cracked down on the suppliers?

 

Illegal immigration is a Europe-wide problem and the numbers in the EU dwarf those in the UK.

 

Imo it is too easy to point the finger at France. Indeed, the data suggests that France is taking the most 'hard line' approach to illegal immigration among European nations.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230505-2

 

The number of actual boats used on a daily basis is small (+/-10) and they are usually reusable.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

You want to make it illegal to sell rubber boats etc to them? That kind of measure is always so effective.

Well apart from the fact that I never said that at all, perhaps it is a good idea. But that would be down to the UK and mainly the French governments to sort out.

 

I could also have suggested towing the boats back to the 3 mile limit and sinking the boats. After all the illegals have life jackets, but the protestors in the UK and France would have a field day with that suggestion.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

You seem to say he has his opinions and they are valid, but I can’t have an opinion about what he says and reply.

 

I have zero on my ignore list, because I do not censor opinion, but that means when someone posts nonsense, I reply, or do you support censorship.
 

I offer facts and links, but that poster just says IMO so he does not never have to back up his posts with any facts or truths.
 

Do you really think my post was insulting him? 
 

Have a good day, but please stop trying to censor my views, on an out of touch racist, terrorist supporting serial poster.

 

Remember in your own words “If you personally don't like his posts, you have the option of skipping over his posts thus ignoring him, putting him on your ignore list”, so you can apply that to my posts, if you want consistency. 

Then why are you complaining about his posts?

 

I don't like a lot of your posts either, so I simply skip over them in case there is one or two I do like.

 

However I don't bother to make a fuss over them because they are your opinions and not mine. His opinions are his and not yours.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Given our electoral system, Labour are the only viable alternative.

 

Why Labour should be elected is a harder question to answer as it's unclear what they stand for. Perhaps, the most convincing answer is that they can't be worse than the Tories (can they?).

 

I agree with you up to the point where you say, they can't be worse than the Tories.

 

However the current lot of chinless wunderkind most probably are worse that the current Labour lot, I think.

 

If I were to be honest, now I have my vote back, I don't think that I would vote for either lot, so my proxy vote in Taunton will probably be a wasted protest vote.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

Illegal immigration is a Europe-wide problem and the numbers in the EU dwarf those in the UK.

 

Imo it is too easy to point the finger at France. Indeed, the data suggests that France is taking the most 'hard line' approach to illegal immigration among European nations.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20230505-2

 

The number of actual boats used on a daily basis is small (+/-10) and they are usually reusable.

Perhaps France should be re-enforcing their other borders to stop them coming into France.

 

If the rubber boats are reusable who would reuse them? They wouldn't or shouldn't be shipped back across the channel, so who would own them, or are they simply dumped onshore as flotsam, and belong to anybody who wants to claim them. 

[Georgealbert]

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Then why are you complaining about his posts?

 

I don't like a lot of your posts either, so I simply skip over them in case there is one or two I do like.

 

However I don't bother to make a fuss over them because they are your opinions and not mine. His opinions are his and not yours.

So why are you posting again to me, stop complaining about my posts that have nothing to do with you. If you don’t like my comments to someone else, let them defend themself. That is where the failing is, because that poster ignores everyone that disagrees with him.

 

i do not care what you think of my posts, if you do like them you are welcome to comment. 

 

Have i ever been rude or insulted you before?

 

It is you making a fuss, 3 times you have tried to lecture me. You do seem to have some sort of superiority complex.

 

Maybe stop trolling me or I will have to report it.

[billd766]

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

So why are you posting again to me, stop complaining about my posts that have nothing to do with you. If you don’t like my comments to someone else, let them defend themself. That is where the failing is, because that poster ignores everyone that disagrees with him.

 

i do not care what you think of my posts, if you do like them you are welcome to comment. 

 

Have i ever been rude or insulted you before?

 

It is you making a fuss, 3 times you have tried to lecture me. You do seem to have some sort of superiority complex.

 

Maybe stop trolling me or I will have to report it.

Is a response to your post a troll post?

[Georgealbert]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Is a response to your post a troll post?

Yes you are trolling.

You started to attack me for my opinions to someone else, then claim everyone is entitled to post their views.

 

Seems you want to censor me. You only consistency appears to be your inconsistency.

 

This is also not the first thread you have posted similar comments to me, or have you forgot!

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Meanwhile someone is getting fed up of waiting.

 

Or perhaps the realization has dawned, £hundreds of millions already received for doing nothing, cut while the going is good:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think people who argue for removing the UK from international human rights laws and the ECHR in order to enact laws that they have been advised will in any case break UK law are rightwing extremists.

 

Feel free to differ.

It sounds like you've made up your own definition for right wing extremism to add weight to your arguments.  

Do you have your own label for the actual right wing extremists such as the National Front, EDL etc? Are they 'extreme extremists' or something? 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

53 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

It sounds like you've made up your own definition for right wing extremism to add weight to your arguments.  

Do you have your own label for the actual right wing extremists such as the National Front, EDL etc? Are they 'extreme extremists' or something? 

 

 

Did you spot my opening words?

 

’I think’.

 

 

[Georgealbert]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Meanwhile someone is getting fed up of waiting.

 

Or perhaps the realization has dawned, £hundreds of millions already received for doing nothing, cut while the going is good:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/17/rwanda-president-efforts-to-implement-asylum-plan-cannot-drag-on

 

If it is scrapped how will Rwanda find the 10 million a year, to continue its Arsenal shirt sleeve sponsorship.

 

555555

 

https://www.goal.com/en/lists/arsenal-visit-rwanda-uk-government-sleeve-sponsorship/blte61b855f1c586982#cs4322eea206657827

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

Obviously, smarter people than me must have worked out where the stuff comes from, so why have they not cracked down on the suppliers?

That is indeed a question that has puzzled me since it all began.

We are regaled with stories of how the poverty stricken travel to Europe/ Britain/ USA in search of a better life, and how they are robbed and preyed on along the way, yet they all seem to reach their destination after thousands of miles, not looking starved or sick, well clothed, with shoes that are not worn out. If they were so poor, how could they pay the traffickers? If they were robbed on the way, how did they pay for food and bribes further on? Something does not make sense, and I've never received a sensible answer when I asked in the past.

 

I'm sure people in power know the answer, but they are keeping pretty quiet about it.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

Then why are you complaining about his posts?

 

I don't like a lot of your posts either, so I simply skip over them in case there is one or two I do like.

 

However I don't bother to make a fuss over them because they are your opinions and not mine. His opinions are his and not yours.

Good advice. I don't see that particular poster as he made too many personal insults against me, but I see his posts when he is quoted. I particularly enjoyed his "out of touch racist, terrorist supporting serial poster" insult, but if I were to be called that myself I'd be putting a poster that resorts to such abusive language on ignore.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

Perhaps France should be re-enforcing their other borders to stop them coming into France.

 

If the rubber boats are reusable who would reuse them? They wouldn't or shouldn't be shipped back across the channel, so who would own them, or are they simply dumped onshore as flotsam, and belong to anybody who wants to claim them. 

Here you go

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9871467/Britain-spends-500-000-year-storing-boats-used-migrants-cross-Channel.html

Britain spends £500,000 a year to keep Channel migrants' boats piled up in a car park in case the 'owner' comes forward to claim them - and now plans to build a £2MILLION processing facility in Dover

....................................

According to The Times, many of the boats are disposed of after the 12 months because they are no longer seaworthy or cannot be used for another purpose.