Free event aims to shed light on the new tax rules for foreign income brought into Thailand

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Expat68 said:

Not sure. I am doing nothing until there are clear rules and instructions. My philosophy is and always has been and this goes for UK Tax laws as well, do not mention anything which they do not ask for

 

Your post bears all the hallmarks of somebody who isn't up to date with the latest information, bad person that you are. 🙂

 

Below is a link to Sherrings, it's a simple Q & A from last week. The jury is mostly in, most people get a pass. If you need more, the Simple Tax guide has been substantially update and is linked below.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

 

 

[Expat68]

10 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

 

Your post bears all the hallmarks of somebody who isn't up to date with the latest information, bad person that you are. 🙂

 

Below is a link to Sherrings, it's a simple Q & A from last week. The jury is mostly in, most people get a pass. If you need more, the Simple Tax guide has been substantially update and is linked below.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

 

 

 

Thank for that. By the way I am not a bad person, my friends who I have many, the same for many years would be killing themselves with laughter suggesting that I am, in fact it was only last week one told me I was too honest 

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

Thank for that. By the way I am not a bad person, my friends who I have many, the same for many years would be killing themselves with laughter suggesting that I am, in fact it was only last week one told me I was too honest 

I knew that, they told me. :))

[smedly]

the answer that is confusing to me is in regards to interest earned on foreign bank deposits

 

the priciple is not assessable income but interest earned is, all of my money is deposited in a foreign bank account, i guess what they are meaning is if the money stays in the foreign bank and is not transferred to Thailand

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

the answer that is confusing to me is in regards to interest earned on foreign bank deposits

 

the priciple is not assessable income but interest earned is, all of my money is deposited in a foreign bank account, i guess what they are meaning is if the money stays in the foreign bank and is not transferred to Thailand

Correct

[Bluetongue]

On 2/3/2024 at 12:09 PM, TigerandDog said:

There is 1 question you need to ask yourself:

 

#1. are you a tax resident of Australia OR Thailand. Based on your comment it appears that you are a tax resident of Thailand.  Therefore under section 4 of the DTA ComsuperAustralia CANNOT legally tax you. With regards to Comsuper, have you ever made aware that as a tax resident of Thailand under the terms of the Oz/Thai DTA they cannot legally deduct the 32% tax from your pension and that Thailand is the ONLY state where you are liable to pay income tax, and that they need to be making representations to the ATO on your behalf to recover the tax that has been improperly deducted.

 

My guess is that Comsuper are either not aware of the DTA and it's provisions or that when you have advised them that you are a non tax resident of Australia you have not made them aware that you are a tax resident under Thai tax law and that the terms of the DTA prevent them from deducting any tax from your pension. 

 

I'd be contacting Comsuper and asking them why they aren't complying with the Thai/Oz DTA. It would be interesting to hear their response to that enquiry.

I'll be contacting them with a query regarding future tax residency of Thailand, at this stage I am not, in 22 0r 23 anyway although it is almost certain I have been in the past 15 years for some of them. However I have never changed my original declaration made in 2014 to Comsuper that I was an Australian resident (believing that I was better off as such). Whether it is worthwhile or wise for me to go back over old ground with the Australian Tax Office is a matter for deliberation.

[Felt 35]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Correct

 

Can I then lower my shoulders and count on that this mean that interest earned on deposits in a foreign bank (in my case deposits in banks in the home country) is not taxable as long as neither the deposit interest nor the deposit is transferred to Thailand?

Thanks

Felt

[Mike Lister]

12 minutes ago, Felt 35 said:

 

Can I then lower my shoulders and count on that this mean that interest earned on deposits in a foreign bank (in my case deposits in banks in the home country) is not taxable as long as neither the deposit interest nor the deposit is transferred to Thailand?

Thanks

Felt

 

It was always the case that anything earned by foreigners overseas and not transferred to Thailand was not taxable in Thailand. It was also always the case that anything earned before 1 January 2024 and transferred to Thailand was not taxable in Thailand. You really do need to read the following:

 

 

 

[Felt 35]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

It was always the case that anything earned by foreigners overseas and not transferred to Thailand was not taxable in Thailand. It was also always the case that anything earned before 1 January 2024 and transferred to Thailand was not taxable in Thailand. You really do need to read the following:

 

 

 

I have in all modesty read that list but as the publishers themselves say in plain text The authors are not lawyers or tax advisers. You, the reader, remain entirely responsible for your own financial and tax affairs. Having said that, I'm skeptical of nature and especially when it comes to tax departments, immigration etc. and I think that's common sense. Anyway, thank you for replying.

Felt

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Felt 35 said:

I have in all modesty read that list but as the publishers themselves say in plain text The authors are not lawyers or tax advisers. You, the reader, remain entirely responsible for your own financial and tax affairs. Having said that, I'm skeptical of nature and especially when it comes to tax departments, immigration etc. and I think that's common sense. Anyway, thank you for replying.

Felt

Following is a link to a company in Thailand that does comprise lawyers and tax advisors, you will find that they say the same things because they have been the source of much of our information.:

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

[retarius]

May I ask a question that has been troubling me and might have been clarified at the event. I have read that if you have statements for bank accounts in the US that show say $50,000K on 31/12/23, can you bring this amount here tax free in 2024. Is this true after the clarification at the meeting? 

Secondly, does the money have to come from the same bank account? Or can it come from a different bank account? And can it come later than 2024 ie say in 2025.

[Ems3]

Were there any plans to release video of this event?

https://members.bccthai.com/bcct/asp/eventdetail.asp?EventID=4331&SponsorID=-1

[Mike Lister]

5 hours ago, retarius said:

May I ask a question that has been troubling me and might have been clarified at the event. I have read that if you have statements for bank accounts in the US that show say $50,000K on 31/12/23, can you bring this amount here tax free in 2024. Is this true after the clarification at the meeting? 

Secondly, does the money have to come from the same bank account? Or can it come from a different bank account? And can it come later than 2024 ie say in 2025.

You can remit the money any time you want, there is no time limit involved.

 

Does the money have to come from the same bank account? Technically, yes, if you take it from another account and claim that it's a proxy for that money, you complicate matters unnecessarily.

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, Ems3 said:

Were there any plans to release video of this event?

https://members.bccthai.com/bcct/asp/eventdetail.asp?EventID=4331&SponsorID=-1

Not that I'm aware

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, retarius said:

May I ask a question that has been troubling me and might have been clarified at the event. I have read that if you have statements for bank accounts in the US that show say $50,000K on 31/12/23, can you bring this amount here tax free in 2024. Is this true after the clarification at the meeting? 

Secondly, does the money have to come from the same bank account? Or can it come from a different bank account? And can it come later than 2024 ie say in 2025.

 

List all your bank and IRA/401k balances as of 12/31/2023. This is the amount you can remit to Thailand that will be non assessable, i.e., not reportable, on a Thai tax return -- for ever and ever going forward into 2024 and beyond. Just keep good records, like, say, you open a new bank account in 2024, and fill it with pre 2024 funds, plus you use it for direct deposits of your gov't pensions, and Social Security payments (exempt by DTA). Thus, this new bank account contains only money that is not reportable on a Thai tax return. And this should be the source of your Wise or SWIFT transfers.

 

I mention including your 12/31/23 IRA/401k balance, because of the uniqueness of Thailand's remittance rule, plus the exemption for pre 2024 income. Thus, Thailand says income earned pre 2024 is exempt from their new remittance rule. But money in an IRA pre 2024 has also been earned -- it's just tax deferred until it is payed out. Thus, I would be completely in my rights to tell Thai RD that my IRA funds pre 2024 are not reportable, as they were earned pre 2024. That it's taxable in a later year, when withdrawn -- is neither here nor there (until Thailand drops the remittance malarkey and just looks at taxable worldwide income).

[Ben Zioner]

This is from Mazars report of the event:

 

"However, if the income is eligible for tax exemption under the general rules, such income from abroad will not be subject to tax under DI. Paw. 161. For example, income regarded as a gift from parents, descendants, or spouses in an amount not over Baht 20 million per annum is exempt from personal income tax."

 

So I can gift my earnings, tax free, to my beloved, who will then take care of the family. Too good to be true, unless they want to catch only single single foreigners who are boombooming around in the bar world.

 

Might have to do something to make it "regarded as" though..

Edited February 5 by Ben Zioner

[retarius]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

You can remit the money any time you want, there is no time limit involved.

 

Does the money have to come from the same bank account? Technically, yes, if you take it from another account and claim that it's a proxy for that money, you complicate matters unnecessarily.

Thank you for this Mike, you are certainly up to speed on this. It  has rather wrecked my plan. I'm going to the US in March to close a couple of bank accounts in NJ (because I am unhappy with their service) and was planning to get a cashier's check to open a new joint account Miami with my son. He can then do all the wiring etc of funds. I was planning to use bank statements to back up my claim that it was the same money ie I would use the receipts for the cashier's checks and show they equalled the amount deposited in Miami. I guess I'll have to dream up plan B, which would be to close the accounts and wire the sum over, the only thing being I'm not sure I want that much cash here and don't need it for anything special. I'm worried about the health of the banks here in Thailand and the miserly insurance. 

[K2938]

7 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

This is from Mazars report of the event:

 

"However, if the income is eligible for tax exemption under the general rules, such income from abroad will not be subject to tax under DI. Paw. 161. For example, income regarded as a gift from parents, descendants, or spouses in an amount not over Baht 20 million per annum is exempt from personal income tax."

Would you have a link for this, please?

[Ben Zioner]

7 hours ago, K2938 said:

Would you have a link for this, please?

Here Q1

[Mike Lister]

7 hours ago, K2938 said:

Would you have a link for this, please?

"However, if the income is eligible for tax exemption under the general rules", 

 

Some of the general rules relating to gift tax are found in the following link. 

 

https://sherrings.com/gift-tax-law-in-thailand.html#:~:text=Tax Payable on Assessable Gift Income&text=or a spouse-,On the amount of the gift received in excess of,a personal income tax return.&text=tradition or custom-,On the amount of the gift received in excess of,a personal income tax return.

[TigerandDog]

For the Aussie expats that are Thai tax residents please read the following:

 

Tax Alert: Thailand to tax foreign income - Expat Taxes Australia