As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

More insults reflect your inablitity to have a grown up conversation.

Do you deny Netanyahu wants all Gazans out of Gaza?

Do you believe Netanyahu govt is right wing?

 

Maybe time to phone a friend 😉

Netanyahu reported to be lobbying EU governments to pressure Egypt to take in refugees

https://www.timesofisrael.com/intelligence-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gazans-to-egypts-sinai/

 

My comment was an accurate reflection on your post, and posting style.

 

You are either unable to comprehend what you read, or just post stuff without much care for context, relying on headlines to make your 'point'.

The link above is not quite what the previous derailing attempt you tried said.

 

Maybe time to give it a rest.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Incredible, you make things up to fit your Zionist agenda.

 

Make up things how, exactly?

And what 'agenda' would that be?

 

Try harder, little troll.

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, retarius said:

Blinken is a sock puppet. US needs to cut all ties with Israel and all aid; and kick the dual citizens (US/Israeli or US/Anywhere else) out of Congress and the Senate. Enough all ready. I don't want my tax dollars to go to support massacres of Palestinian women and children. How can a 2000lb cluster bomb be called aid????????????

 

@retarius

 

Coming from an openly antisemite, dictator-loving poster, that's not a surprising point of view.

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Another reflexive counter argument. What is news is that Israel is apparently planning to launch a major assault on Rafah where roughly 1.45 million Palestinians have sought refuge. You think that's irrelevant to Egypt's fear about Mass cross-border immigration? That it doesn't change the odds?

 

What's irrelevant is your hyping of things which were already discussed, and apparently settled.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do ya think their fears have gotten stronger, stayed the same, or gotten weaker since Israel announced its intentions to stage in a major operation in Rafah?

 

What do you think?

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Do ya think their fears have gotten stronger, stayed the same, or gotten weaker since Israel announced its intentions to stage in a major operation in Rafah?

Lol. Seeing as these fears were raised months ago and discussed at length in the early topics, I would say they have had plenty of time to plan and put appropriate measures in place for worst case scenarios. Not sure about stronger fears. 

[ezzra]

The assault on Rafah is necessary because they're still 4 battalions of Hamas terrorist there plus the Philadelphy area where

underground tunnels are being used by Hamas to smuggle weapons and ammunitions from Egypt and according to the Israeli

government they'll have to go...

Edited February 11 by ezzra

[WDSmart]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Your deflection aside, my comment holds anyway.

Most of the criticism, pleas and so on are directed at Israel.

The way I see it, ALL the criticism here from you and several others is directed at Palestine. That's anti-Semitic in my book. I've repeatedly said I would like to see a one-state solution where both parties could live in peace on equal terms, but that now seems impossible. I now recommend a two-state solution based generally on the UN's 1947 map the proposed when they recognized the state of Israel. 
 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

The way I see it, ALL the criticism here from you and several others is directed at Palestine. That's anti-Semitic in my book. I've repeatedly said I would like to see a one-state solution where both parties could live in peace on equal terms, but that now seems impossible. I now recommend a two-state solution based generally on the UN's 1947 map the proposed when they recognized the state of Israel. 
 

 

The way you see things is odd, on a good day.

 

I'm not a government, or a country. My criticism and commentary do not carry much weight in the real world.

 

Your nonsense definition games are tiresome, and were addressed. Even if you had a point, criticizing Palestinian policies would not be that.

 

You say a whole lot of things, most of them unrealistic, or got little to do with facts.

 

And your comment is yet another deflection - not really much to do with what I posted about.

 

[placeholder]

51 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And them counterarguments you outline are to the point. Your assertions, not so much.

keep in mind that after Egypt refused, Israel neither tried to do so anyway, nor was the subject featured much later on.

To the  point of denial of reality.

Let's take them one by one

 

1) Egypt doesn't really believe this:. It's undeniable that that the Israeli assault on Rafah will create huge pressure on the refugees to flee. So where are they going to go? Back North through a war zone?  Why wouldn't Egypt believe a Palestinian cross-border incursion is a very strong and credible possibility? As for Israel no longer trying to do get Egypt to let the Palestinians in ... as I'm sure you're aware, Israel has been pressuring Egypt to let it take over security on the southern border of Gaza. Egypt is seriously unhappy about that. Is it unreasonable for the Egyptians won't suspect that Israel has a lot less stake in keeping the border non-porous heading south than does Egypt? Put this under the heading of More Than One Way to Skin a Cat.

 

2)It's Hamas' fault: The all purpose justification. This of course depends on the belief that the strategy and tactics that Israel is employing are necessary. The US certainly is increasingly unhappy with the way Israel has prosecuted this war. 

 

3) Reversibility. Why wouldn't the Israelis wouldn't use Facts On The Ground to their advantage? That it wouldn't find reasons not to let the Palestinians back in?

 

 

[retarius]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

It looks like another three or four (or maybe it will be recorded as 20) "Hamas terrorists" the IDF can add to their breakdown of the number of Palestinians they have successfully eliminated in Gaza. 

 

Five-year-old Palestinian girl found dead after being trapped in car under Israeli fire | CNN

More compassionate humanity from Israel. 

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What's irrelevant is your hyping of things which were already discussed, and apparently settled.

The subject of this thread is the Israeli assault on Rafah. It was launched yesterday at 6:47 AM Nowhere in htis has this issue been discussed & settled. Apparently, you believe that whatever conclusions you reached elsewhere are somehow dispositive.

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lol. Seeing as these fears were raised months ago and discussed at length in the early topics, I would say they have had plenty of time to plan and put appropriate measures in place for worst case scenarios. Not sure about stronger fears. 

Thanks for either avoiding or not understanding the issue. The question isn't whether those fears were discussed earlier, but how have recent events affected those fears.

[placeholder]

27 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What do you think?

To state the obvious: stronger.

[retarius]

21 minutes ago, ezzra said:

The assault on Rafah is necessary because they're still 4 battalions of Hamas terrorist there plus the Philadelphy area where

underground tunnels are being used by Hamas to smuggle weapons and ammunitions from Egypt and according to the Israeli

government they'll have to go...

Your total disregard of human life and compassion for humanity disturbs me. 

[retarius]

22 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

The way I see it, ALL the criticism here from you and several others is directed at Palestine. That's anti-Semitic in my book. I've repeatedly said I would like to see a one-state solution where both parties could live in peace on equal terms, but that now seems impossible. I now recommend a two-state solution based generally on the UN's 1947 map the proposed when they recognized the state of Israel. 
 

Whilst I agree with you that we need a two state solution now, I'd say that the UN erred gravely when they bowed to Jewish terrorism in the post war period and recognised Israel. It is now time to undo that mistake.

Edited February 11 by retarius

[retarius]

53 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Could you please tell me where and when a 2,000 lb cluster bomb was used …. many thanks

Oops sorry my mistake....should have said '2000 lb or cluster bomb'. I'll try to get a citation for you. I read it in the UK's  or independent, I think. It may take a few minutes.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thanks for either avoiding or not understanding the issue. The question isn't whether those fears were discussed earlier, but how have recent events affected those fears.

I understand it perfectly thanks. I didn't say the question was if they had been discussed earlier, I was relaying facts, you have every right to discuss yet again but I'm not going to. So what do you think? Are they more fearful now? 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

7 minutes ago, retarius said:

Your total disregard of human life and compassion for humanity disturbs me. 

 

Your imaginary 2,000 lb cluster bombs disturb me.

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, ezzra said:

The assault on Rafah is necessary because they're still 4 battalions of Hamas terrorist there plus the Philadelphy area where

underground tunnels are being used by Hamas to smuggle weapons and ammunitions from Egypt and according to the Israeli

government they'll have to go...

About that claim that Hamas is using tunnels between it and Egypt to transport weapons:

Not only has Egypt for its own reason been very diligent about patrolling the zone, but even smugglers says that smuggling has stopped thanks to Egypt's strict enforcement. You can read about it in the article I linked to above. 

In fact, Egypt and Israel have been cooperating very closely on enforcement of the Gaza Egypt border.

[retarius]

59 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Could you please tell me where and when a 2,000 lb cluster bomb was used …. many thanks

Here you are Ezzra, or is the Guardian not good enough for you. Open your eyes man, this is indecent and not worthy of human conduct. Children are being killed indiscriminately. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-airstrike-gaza

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I understand it perfectly thanks. I didn't say the question was if they had been discussed earlier, I was relaying facts, you have every right to discuss yet again but I'm not going to. So what do you think? Are they more fearful now? 

Really, you discussed what effect the assault on Rafah is having on Egypt's fears about the border?  Of course it stands to reason that they are more fearful now. And do you realize that by asking that question you undermine your point?

[retarius]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Your imaginary 2,000 lb cluster bombs disturb me.

 

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Your imaginary 2,000 lb cluster bombs disturb me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-airstrike-gaza

 

Imaginary? See the photographic evidence. Your blindness disturbs to wilful war crimes me. You are simp[ly a shrill for Israeli war crimes. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Really, you discussed what effect the assault on Rafah is having on Egypt's fears about the border?  Of course it stands to reason that they are more fearful now. And do you realize that by asking that question you undermine your point?

I note you didn't reply to your own question that you asked me. Are they more fearful now?

 

Maybe you just prefer ignoring my earlier replies where I said they have probably put in appropriate plans.

 

Like I said, already discussed numerous times

 

Scotland's Leader Calls to Welcome Palestinian Refugees to the U.K., Amid Hamas-Israel War

Scottish Minister, who has in-laws in Gaza, urges U.K. to commit to refugee program, as Egypt blocks Palestinians from crossing the border: 'You care about human rights so much — well you take them,' Egyptian official said

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-19/ty-article/scotlands-leader-calls-to-welcome-palestinian-refugees-to-the-u-k-amid-hamas-israel-war/0000018b-4776-d614-abcf-ef7760540000

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, placeholder said:

To the  point of denial of reality.

Let's take them one by one

 

1) Egypt doesn't really believe this:. It's undeniable that that the Israeli assault on Rafah will create huge pressure on the refugees to flee. So where are they going to go? Back North through a war zone?  Why wouldn't Egypt believe a Palestinian cross-border incursion is a very strong and credible possibility? As for Israel no longer trying to do get Egypt to let the Palestinians in ... as I'm sure you're aware, Israel has been pressuring Egypt to let it take over security on the southern border of Gaza. Egypt is seriously unhappy about that. Is it unreasonable for the Egyptians won't suspect that Israel has a lot less stake in keeping the border non-porous heading south than does Egypt? Put this under the heading of More Than One Way to Skin a Cat.

 

2)It's Hamas' fault: The all purpose justification. This of course depends on the belief that the strategy and tactics that Israel is employing are necessary. The US certainly is increasingly unhappy with the way Israel has prosecuted this war. 

 

3) Reversibility. Why wouldn't the Israelis wouldn't use Facts On The Ground to their advantage? That it wouldn't find reasons not to let the Palestinians back in?

 

 

 

Allow me to doubt that you know what Egypt 'believes'. You can quote what Egypt says, but that's not necessarily the same thing. A whole lot of the various statements made (by all sides involved) are aimed at broadcasting warnings, rather than accurately expressing acute fears, intentions and so on. 

 

What I am sure of is that there were reports (some linked on these topics) discussing Israel and the IDF awareness of the issues, and mulling ways to address it. Several options were outlined, granted none of them seems a fully satisfactory one. And as far as I'm aware, and as others mentioned - Israel trying to convince Egypt to take in Palestinians is something that happened weeks and months ago. Egypt refused, rejected, and that was that. 

 

You want to offer an argument where this got nothing to do with Hamas's choices, tactics, and it's all down to Israel and the IDF's actions - go right ahead. You do not offer anything in support of this, nor much of an alternative. Or even a way of addressing the current situation.

 

I've no idea where you're going with your last nonsense point, sorry.

[ezzra]

3 minutes ago, retarius said:

Here you are Ezzra, or is the Guardian not good enough for you. Open your eyes man, this is indecent and not worthy of human conduct. Children are being killed indiscriminately. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-airstrike-gaza

Yo, didn't see you caring so much for Israeli kids women and elderly who were butchered, raped and burned

as much as you care for the children of terrorist...

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, retarius said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-airstrike-gaza

 

Imaginary? See the photographic evidence. Your blindness disturbs to wilful war crimes me. You are simp[ly a shrill for Israeli war crimes. 

There's no evidence that Israel is using cluster bombs in Gaza. They are using bombs that do weigh a ton or more. But they are not cluster bombs.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 minutes ago, retarius said:

Here you are Ezzra, or is the Guardian not good enough for you. Open your eyes man, this is indecent and not worthy of human conduct. Children are being killed indiscriminately. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/jabalia-camp-airstrike-gaza

 

Thanks for the confirmation that no cluster bombs were used; which is the only issue I was questioning you about 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

I note you didn't reply to your own question that you asked me. Are they more fearful now?

 

Maybe you just prefer ignoring my earlier replies where I said they have probably put in appropriate plans.

 

Like I said, already discussed numerous times

 

Scotland's Leader Calls to Welcome Palestinian Refugees to the U.K., Amid Hamas-Israel War

Scottish Minister, who has in-laws in Gaza, urges U.K. to commit to refugee program, as Egypt blocks Palestinians from crossing the border: 'You care about human rights so much — well you take them,' Egyptian official said

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-19/ty-article/scotlands-leader-calls-to-welcome-palestinian-refugees-to-the-u-k-amid-hamas-israel-war/0000018b-4776-d614-abcf-ef7760540000

What has this got to do with the Egypt's increasing fear of a Gazan refugees flooding into Egypt due to the current Israeli assault on Rafah?

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The subject of this thread is the Israeli assault on Rafah. It was launched yesterday at 6:47 AM Nowhere in htis has this issue been discussed & settled. Apparently, you believe that whatever conclusions you reached elsewhere are somehow dispositive.

 

Another lame deflection? I was obviously referring to your hyping of the Egypt angle bit.

Apparently you believe that asserting what other posters believe, regardless if they said anything regarding it, is the way to conduct 'discussions'.