The "Exodus" of European Farangs, The Trap.

[swissie]

In Europe, an increasing number of pensioneers relocate to "third world countries" as the pension benefits will not allow for a "decent-living" in their home countries anymore. (Political discussions concerning this matter are in full swing in Europe).

THE TRAP: Those undercapitalised "pensioneer-fugitives" have not the financial means to cover lenghty hospital costs nor are they able to pay for any private health insurance.

Only conclusion: Unless you have a fat wallet, stay in your home country once you have qualified yourself as "an old men" with limited financial resources.

- There was once a movie "No country for old men". Unless one has a fat wallet, Thailand is also just a "No country for old men".

Hopes, of finding financial relief by the "Thai-Family" or the Embassy of the home country in case of financial emergency are usually dashed quickly.

A tropical Paradise without a fat wallet is not available. Nowhere. Have known a numer of undercapitalised Farangs, claiming that upon their demise, they will die in their bed in Thailand. But those were exactly the ones that have run up astronomical hospital bills in the end. Much to the disadvantage of the Thai Hospital and Thai Society.

Again: Unless well capitalised, "Thailand is no country for old men". No matter how young your Thai Wife is.

 

[Nemises]

Marry a Thai government employee for virtually free medical and hospital cover. 
 

Next. 

[thaibeachlovers]

31 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Marry a Thai government employee for virtually free medical and hospital cover. 
 

Next. 

I gave that a laugh emoji as I assume it was supposed to be satire.

[AlexRich]

I'm not sure that Thailand is a place to grow old, whether you have sufficient funds or not.

 

Perhaps if you have married a Thai lady and have a family there are at least children who will make sure that you are okay. In that respect you are in much the same situation as anyone at home. 

 

However, if you have came to Thailand as an older person and simply hitched up with a girlfriend or got married then you might not have the support when you need it. They might view you as a liability that has served their purpose. And you'll be found on Beach Road Pattaya, not knowing your own name, and wearing an adult diaper.

 

[Grecian]

Disagree.

If I were (uk example) a 67 yr old 40k Thai bht a month state pensioner. I'd take my chances and live healthy in thailand for as long as I lasted. 

Many pensioners live very isolated lives in the uk. Better to be in thailand and accept the risks.

 

 

[Walker88]

Maybe this is more correctly aimed at younger folks, who still have time to build up some wealth. If you’re old, it’s too late.

 

Unless your pension and savings are substantial, they are unlikely to be enough to cover your living costs as time moves on, and no way it will cover end-of-life medical costs. There’s way too much debt in the world (often a result of entitlements and the need for governments to fund them). So to cover debt servicing costs, governments print more money, which is inflationary. The goal post becomes a moving target, as even if pensions try to adjust to cost of living increases, the money printed to cover the increases creates yet more inflation. Trying to asymptotically hit costs with rising pension amounts equates to failure and inability to pay. The goal post will move faster than any increase in entitlements. One and one equals two, not three. All retirement and pension systems are built on a Ponzi Scheme that always assumed ever-increasing populations. That has changed, and it changed at a time when debt is at or near unsustainable levels. Nobody paid into the system what they expect or need to get back, but via a Ponzi Scheme, we could long pretend to the contrary. Not anymore.

 

Older pensioners just getting by then have two choices, neither of which is pretty. Stay in Thailand, and as the body decays, just grin and bear it. It’s rather unfair for expats to foist care costs on to the Thai taxpayer. Your decline is not their fault, nor their patriotic responsibility. The other choice is go home and hope the home government will take care of you at the end. Even that might become unlikely, as shrinking populations in many Western lands means fewer working folks have to cover an increasing number of pensioners, and eventually the workers are going to bark and---cold as it might sound---say “let them die, as they are no longer contributing to the general good”. Eskimos used to put their elderly on an ice flow and push them out into the cold seas. Japanese used to send old folks to ‘the eighth place’. Such behavior has precedent.

 

So young people, start saving and planning for a future where public resources are going to be less, self-reliance more.

 

As for old people just getting by, have a nice day.

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

Maybe this is more correctly aimed at younger folks, who still have time to build up some wealth. If you’re old, it’s too late.

 

Unless your pension and savings are substantial, they are unlikely to be enough to cover your living costs as time moves on, and no way it will cover end-of-life medical costs. There’s way too much debt in the world (often a result of entitlements and the need for governments to fund them). So to cover debt servicing costs, governments print more money, which is inflationary. The goal post becomes a moving target, as even if pensions try to adjust to cost of living increases, the money printed to cover the increases creates yet more inflation. Trying to asymptotically hit costs with rising pension amounts equates to failure and inability to pay. The goal post will move faster than any increase in entitlements. One and one equals two, not three. All retirement and pension systems are built on a Ponzi Scheme that always assumed ever-increasing populations. That has changed, and it changed at a time when debt is at or near unsustainable levels. Nobody paid into the system what they expect or need to get back, but via a Ponzi Scheme, we could long pretend to the contrary. Not anymore.

 

Older pensioners just getting by then have two choices, neither of which is pretty. Stay in Thailand, and as the body decays, just grin and bear it. It’s rather unfair for expats to foist care costs on to the Thai taxpayer. Your decline is not their fault, nor their patriotic responsibility. The other choice is go home and hope the home government will take care of you at the end. Even that might become unlikely, as shrinking populations in many Western lands means fewer working folks have to cover an increasing number of pensioners, and eventually the workers are going to bark and---cold as it might sound---say “let them die, as they are no longer contributing to the general good”. Eskimos used to put their elderly on an ice flow and push them out into the cold seas. Japanese used to send old folks to ‘the eighth place’. Such behavior has precedent.

 

So young people, start saving and planning for a future where public resources are going to be less, self-reliance more.

 

As for old people just getting by, have a nice day.

Too bad there is no ice flow available for you... maybe someone can think of a solution to this problem... sooner better than later.

[BE88]

5 hours ago, swissie said:

In Europe, an increasing number of pensioneers relocate to "third world countries" as the pension benefits will not allow for a "decent-living" in their home countries anymore. (Political discussions concerning this matter are in full swing in Europe).

THE TRAP: Those undercapitalised "pensioneer-fugitives" have not the financial means to cover lenghty hospital costs nor are they able to pay for any private health insurance.

Only conclusion: Unless you have a fat wallet, stay in your home country once you have qualified yourself as "an old men" with limited financial resources.

- There was once a movie "No country for old men". Unless one has a fat wallet, Thailand is also just a "No country for old men".

Hopes, of finding financial relief by the "Thai-Family" or the Embassy of the home country in case of financial emergency are usually dashed quickly.

A tropical Paradise without a fat wallet is not available. Nowhere. Have known a numer of undercapitalised Farangs, claiming that upon their demise, they will die in their bed in Thailand. But those were exactly the ones that have run up astronomical hospital bills in the end. Much to the disadvantage of the Thai Hospital and Thai Society.

Again: Unless well capitalised, "Thailand is no country for old men". No matter how young your Thai Wife is.

 

 

swissie I don't agree with you, what happened during Covid is proof that governments in Europe want to eliminate elderly people by all means, some countries such as France and Italy have systematically eliminated elderly people in hospitals by giving medicines to make them die quickly .

 

What Thailand has not done is that their culture still respects elderly people, while in Europe an elderly person is the main license plate to be eliminated with low pensions at the limit of physical food survival, hoping that they will die soon.

 

Definitely not starting from Europe and the best solution for older people who can afford it.

 

Those who have no choice and a sad end is destined for them, pushed by their own children, depositing them in infamous retirement homes in Europe.

 

 

[uttradit]

How about people do what suits them.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

So young people, start saving and planning for a future where public resources are going to be less, self-reliance more.

Most young people I know back in the UK barely make enough money to rent a room in a shared house, how do you expect them to save?

[scottiejohn]

46 minutes ago, BE88 said:

what happened during Covid is proof that governments in Europe want to eliminate elderly people by all means, some countries such as France and Italy have systematically eliminated elderly people in hospitals by giving medicines to make them die quickly .

Please provide  credible links/sources to the above!

 

PS; Where do you buy the tinfoil for your hat?

[BE88]

2 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Please provide  credible links/sources to the above!

 

PS; Where do you buy the tinfoil for your hat?

 

Do you want official confirmations from governments?

 

Stupidity is truly incurable.

[scottiejohn]

7 minutes ago, BE88 said:

Do you want official confirmations from governments?

Yes Please via the link/source that I asked for but which you have ignored, as expected!

[BE88]

20 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Yes Please via the link/source that I asked for but which you have ignored, as expected!

 

https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2020/11/20/covid-19-cinq-questions-sur-l-utilisation-du-midazolam-et-du-rivotril-dans-les-ehpad_1805873/

[JoseThailand]

6 hours ago, Nemises said:

Marry a Thai government employee for virtually free medical and hospital cover. 
 

Next. 

 

I'm not sure if marrying a government employee makes you entitled for free medical services, but it's definitely possible for a foreigner to have a Thai social insurance. And no need to be married for that. 

[Lacessit]

If Thailand is no country for old men, Australia is even less so. The Royal Commission into Aged Care in Australia put that beyond doubt.

 

While I am not under-capitalized, I would much rather see my money go to my legatees, in lieu of fruitless attempts to keep me alive with no quality of life. Just pull the <deleted> plug.

 

I have found Thai public hospitals are quite reasonable in cost, albeit with long waiting times and zero privacy. The devotion shown to me by my GF, after being hospitalized here a few months ago, makes me think the OP is painting an overly gloomy picture of end-of-life here. For me, anyway.

 

IMO the only thing Australia has going for it are its enlightened voluntary euthanasia laws.

 

 

[Crossy]

At least one member here is married to an immigration officer, I'm 99% sure he gets free medical.

 

Having worked here since 2004 (crikey, that long!!) I have the Thai social (plus employer provided health insurance). You can continue it once retired for a fairly nominal fee. It's not perfect but it's affordable.

 

[bigt3116]

10 minutes ago, JoseThailand said:

I'm not sure if marrying a government employee makes you entitled for free medical services,

 

Yes it does

 

[petermik]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Most young people I know back in the UK barely make enough money to rent a room in a shared house, how do you expect them to save?

Cut out the drugs/fags and booze would be a start

[Bday Prang]

18 minutes ago, petermik said:

Cut out the drugs/fags and booze would be a start

Why not cut out all forms of enjoyment and spend ones entire life saving and preparing for old age,  doesn't sound much fun to me.   

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, petermik said:

Cut out the drugs/fags and booze would be a start

I don't know how anyone can still smoke in Australia, tobacco is insanely expensive. IIRC, $60 for a pack of 20.

 

IMO if the only way a person can enjoy themselves is with drugs, fags and booze, that's a pretty sad existence.

[ChaiyaTH]

Not sure what the silly reasoning behind this is, for a lot of more simple healthcare, this is no issue to pay in cash, even with a small pension. For bigger things, one can simply fly back home anyway. People who reason like the OP, limit themself, all their life, and miss out on the best things in life.

 

25% of guys die before even making it to 65 in the first place. People should learn to enjoy life more instead of saving for a 5% chance of becoming 90+

Edited February 12 by ChaiyaTH

[Bday Prang]

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't know how anyone can still smoke in Australia, tobacco is insanely expensive. IIRC, $60 for a pack of 20.

 

IMO if the only way a person can enjoy themselves is with drugs, fags and booze, that's a pretty sad existence.

you are probably right, but we could also add Cars, Motorcycles, Women, Families, Extravagant food, Foreign Holidays , Football, Gambling , Designer clothes,  Smartphones , Computers etc. etc.  I would say life is for living and doing whatever one enjoys, whilst one is able to, regardless of what others may consider inappropriate.

[Bday Prang]

6 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Not sure what the silly reasoning behind this is, for a lot of more simple healthcare, this is no issue to pay in cash, even with a small pension. For bigger things, one can simply fly back home anyway. People who reason like the OP, limit themself, all their life, and miss out on the best things in life.

 

25% of guys die before even making it to 65 in the first place. People should learn to enjoy life more instead of saving for a 5% chance of becoming 90+

Exactly, a fortune in the bank is not much use if one is knocked down and killed by a bus.  "One life, live it" !  was a popular slogan emblazoned on the front of  T shirts,

  some also  had  "One wife, leave it"   written on the back   lol

Death will come soon enough to us all, When  lying in a hospital bed covered in urine , vomit and faeces ,  the only consolation will be our memories,  

[spidermike007]

This post might relate to some Europeans or Aussie's with a nationalized health care plan, Canadians too. It definitely does not relate to Americans where Medicare is insufficient and healthcare costs are ridiculous. One is much better off in Thailand being self-insured.

 

Sorry to burst the author's bubble, but the quality of life here is infinitely higher than it is back in the US, for all but the wealthy. I am grateful for everyday that I have here. 

 

If something catastrophic happens to me, see you baby I've had a good life. 

Edited February 12 by spidermike007

[scottiejohn]

5 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Please provide  credible links/sources to the above!

 

PS; Where do you buy the tinfoil for your hat?

 

4 hours ago, BE88 said:

 

https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2020/11/20/covid-19-cinq-questions-sur-l-utilisation-du-midazolam-et-du-rivotril-dans-les-ehpad_1805873/

Where in the article does it discuss or even mention government involvement in the use /overdosage of two perfectly legal drugs. 

I suggest you renew your your tin foil hat! 

[4MyEgo]

7 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Maybe this is more correctly aimed at younger folks, who still have time to build up some wealth. If you’re old, it’s too late.

 

 

Agree.

 

Having growing up in a poor family, I saw my friends having everything provided to them, was I jealous, no, those were the cards dealt to me, so I accepted it, and I am still friends with most of them today, some millionaires, alas trapped in the life of continuing on the family businesses, usually working 6 days a week, 12-14 hours a day, with perhaps a weeks holiday here or there domestically back in the home country, there choice of course, and following the footsteps of there parents, for future generations.

 

As mentioned, growing up from a poor family, I did very well for myself working 2 jobs and rarely having holidays, and if I did take leave I was working another job during that time, that and I was going to college at night to further educate myself, all the while, while investing in real estate.

 

I still managed to enjoy my life, going out and also doing 2 overseas trips as I matured, albeit it was more the partners at the time that wanted to travel and rightfully so, otherwise life might have become boring just from working, I put it down to an experience, a memory, that cost me of course....LoL.

 

I managed to retire at 55 and have enjoyed the last decade or so of living my new life here with a younger wife, and enjoy a good tax free income stream. I could have chosen the path of some other friends who made lots money but sacrificed their quality of life, some passing on early and their kids benefiting and carrying on the business, and others living day by day in the old country waiting for the age pension as they approach pension age.

 

Life certainly can be a bitch.

 

7 hours ago, Walker88 said:

So young people, start saving and planning for a future where public resources are going to be less, self-reliance more.

 

As for old people just getting by, have a nice day.

 

What I am trying to say above, is that I would hate, is to be on a government pension and be in fear of needing medical care as I age in a foreign country with no reserves to back me up.

 

Bank balances make a difference, but to get a healthy one, unless you inherit it, you have to choose which way you want your life to turn out when you get older, hence the saying, you reap what you sow.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

This post might relate to some Europeans or Aussie's with a nationalized health care plan, Canadians too. It definitely does not relate to Americans where Medicare is insufficient and healthcare costs are ridiculous. One is much better off in Thailand being self-insured.

 

Sorry to burst the author's bubble, but the quality of life here is infinitely higher than it is back in the US, for all but the wealthy. I am grateful for everyday that I have here. 

 

If something catastrophic happens to me, see you baby I've had a good life. 

Yes I too am an American retiree on a govt pension (lucky I got it when it was good and with govt health insurance (not cheap either) and I hear from friends in he US and family, yes the picture is not very good.  Added to the normal inflation and the COVID (over 500 pharma billionaires created during the pandemic) recovery, are the 300K illegal immigrants pouring in monthly over the southern borders which means that all the democratic controlled cities have to rapidly increase the public taxes to pay for housing, food, schooling, travel etc for the illegal migrants.  Citizens of states like California and NY are fleeing by the hundreds of thousands yearly because the taxes are so high and the average person cannot even afford to buy a house anymore.   For example in San Franscisco, Calf, there are no houses available under a million US dollars.  Also, the cost of living in the US causes over 600,000 US workers to live in Mexico, drive to the border and enter the US to go to their work place every morning and then back to Mexico as the work day is done!  I much prefer to live here in what I considered paradise in 2005 when I retired - yeah it isn't perfect but it is still paradise in comparison in my opinion.  Married to a Thai and we had plans to take our daughter to the US for college, got accepted, got scholarships but due to the backlog of immigrants in the US, it took over a year to get my wife's approval to take our daughter back for college...so instead she is now a student at the #1 university in Thailand - yeah Thailand, doing an arts degree so that sheet of paper will mean the same just about anywhere!  Wife and I are happy, daughter is super happy, doing well in college - a great life here if one considers some of the alternatives!

[Lemsta69]

13 hours ago, swissie said:

In Europe, an increasing number of pensioneers relocate to "third world countries" as the pension benefits will not allow for a "decent-living" in their home countries anymore. (Political discussions concerning this matter are in full swing in Europe).

THE TRAP: Those undercapitalised "pensioneer-fugitives" have not the financial means to cover lenghty hospital costs nor are they able to pay for any private health insurance.

Only conclusion: Unless you have a fat wallet, stay in your home country once you have qualified yourself as "an old men" with limited financial resources.

- There was once a movie "No country for old men". Unless one has a fat wallet, Thailand is also just a "No country for old men".

Hopes, of finding financial relief by the "Thai-Family" or the Embassy of the home country in case of financial emergency are usually dashed quickly.

A tropical Paradise without a fat wallet is not available. Nowhere. Have known a numer of undercapitalised Farangs, claiming that upon their demise, they will die in their bed in Thailand. But those were exactly the ones that have run up astronomical hospital bills in the end. Much to the disadvantage of the Thai Hospital and Thai Society.

Again: Unless well capitalised, "Thailand is no country for old men". No matter how young your Thai Wife is.

 

 

Worry about yourself and let the "old men" do what they want. Oh, and spare us the sermon about how a few paupers have "disadvantaged" Thai Society. Judging by the number of AMG Mercs and Lambos that I see clogging the roads of Krung Thep, said society is doing quiet nicely thank you very much.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

you are probably right, but we could also add Cars, Motorcycles, Women, Families, Extravagant food, Foreign Holidays , Football, Gambling , Designer clothes,  Smartphones , Computers etc. etc.  I would say life is for living and doing whatever one enjoys, whilst one is able to, regardless of what others may consider inappropriate.

It depends on what one enjoys. I have never been interested in possessions to impress friends, relatives, and neighbors. I prefer buying established, reliable technology to being a lab rat for the latest gadget.

I have eaten some very high class food, but can equally enjoy a simple steak. My main indulgence has been the sport of golf.

I really enjoy women, I just wish they were not so damn expensive.