Coolant mixing with oil - how big an issue usually?

[mfinasi]

How big an issue is coolant mixing with oil, garage has just sent me an itemized bill estimate that looks like it came from a stay at a tier 1 hospital, estimated around 60k with 35k deposit. 

It seems okay to drive, but when replacing the oil locally told the young guy to give it a little check for leaks as some sticky fluid on driveway usually, they just do oil, tires and brakes usually, but took a look and he thinks that that head gasket cover was leaking and that coolant was mixing with oil. Turns out the young lad was correct I think, and a week later another garage knocked down a tree to print me an itemized estimate..  

Tempted to just keep as a run around, and if it dies, then literally bin it, as long as won't explode on me until i run it to the ground..   They are only guaranteeing the work for 6 months and with other exclusions so really at point probably more prudent and quickly cheaper to get a new yaris or something similar

 

 

Edited February 13 by mfinasi

[impulse]

You'll be fine as long as you don't drive any further than you can walk home when it finally seizes up.

 

[worgeordie]

Coolant mixing with oil is a big problem , and usually indicates a cylinder head gasket,

take the cap of the radiator to see if clean or covered in gunk ,

 

regards Worgeordie

 

[transam]

The usual culprit is a head gasket gone/leak or a cracked head..........

[sirineou]

Look at your exhaust, do you see white smoke?  

[mfinasi]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

The usual culprit is a head gasket gone/leak or a cracked head..........

 

Yeah something like that, front valve cover I think was the original thing the first young lad said. I've googled half the 37 parts number they've gave me and I think they've gone overboard on every little thing, on top of that same parts number from the same company - not sure if same branch - they are selling on lazada for less than 2/3rd of the price quotes to me - not as if the labor was free either that's price out separately and then bang on the vat. Think they seen the farang coming on this one.... 
 

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Look at your exhaust, do you see white smoke?  

Nope. Seems all normal

Quote

 

 

take the cap of the radiator to see if clean or covered in gunk ,

 

That's all clean from the looks. Just loses about half the volume every month, cost bahts to topup . 

[mfinasi]

14 minutes ago, impulse said:

You'll be fine as long as you don't drive any further than you can walk home when it finally seizes up.

 

If that's only risk, and push it to side of the road until it gets towed home or to the scrap yard, I can live with that. 

[Moonlover]

17 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Look at your exhaust, do you see white smoke?  

This is the classic symptom of a blown head gasket. If there's no white smoke (steam actually) and you're not loosing coolant, I doubt if you have this problem.

[stoner]

drive the snot out of it until it blows. make sure you are in a public area like sukhumvit. get out and cause a huge kerfuffle as a foreigner it will get press.

 

your license plate will then be noted on the news. play the lottery that day.

 

after you win ( of course you will you lucky guy you) you can buy a new one.

 

problem solved. 

[Crossy]

Coolant in the oil usually results in a nice white emulsion deposit on the oil filler - Is that what you are seeing?

 

[OneMoreFarang]

This is what you can see yourself:

 

 

 

And that's how it looks if they open your engine.

 

If you want to rescue your engine, then do it now.

It can get very expensive. 

 

 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, mfinasi said:

 

 

Nope. Seems all normal

 . 

First, is the car worth more than the repair"

If there is no white smoke coming out of your exhaust its a good sign , it can still be a head gasket but if it is , it's an outside brake and you are not getting water in the cylinders. 

Is the car worth more than the repair? 

[mfinasi]

I'd decided not to do the work just yet and just pay them what I owe for checking it out for now.  I cant make heads or tails of it just yet... 

 

But I've got some more information now that perhaps suggests it isn't head gasket valve thing the first lad said but the same net effect of mixing which is why I thought we had found a consensus, I've now got via translation "radiator leaking, oil is mixed with coolant which is cause pipe to swell. oil flowing inside pipe, the coolant is sludge. "

 

On the bill bill I can't even see anything related to head gasket, gasket valve so maybe this supports the above,  the most expensive line item is "overhaul and replace radiator seals" 9k, water pump 4k, water valve 3k, radiator 7.3k, and so on all the way up near 60k.  

 

I'm pretty sure I got the radiator replace a year ago out in suburbs for 4.5k, so I'm not sure if anything near the 37 items will be actually needed. 
 

Edited February 13 by mfinasi

[mfinasi]

45 minutes ago, sirineou said:

First, is the car worth more than the repair"

If there is no white smoke coming out of your exhaust its a good sign , it can still be a head gasket but if it is , it's an outside brake and you are not getting water in the cylinders. 

Is the car worth more than the repair? 

Probably, but not if this is just to start of more headaches, if they said hey give us 60k and we'll guarantee 20k km out of it till it dies excluding wearables I'd probably jump at it.. 

Edited February 13 by mfinasi

[brianthainess]

Just wondering is it an automatic, some automatic oil coolers run inside the bottom of the radiator, just something also worth checking, although you said you have already fitted a new rad, check your automatic oil. Just a lurking memory from the past work I have done.

[brianthainess]

I would pay the 60k and then sell it, sold as seen. What year is it?

[Lacessit]

Coolant mixing with oil is a train wreck already.

 

Coolant has a lot of ethylene or propylene glycol in it, apart from water. They are not lubricants, although they may act to emulsify oil. The cylinders will score, from ineffective lubrication and carbonization.

It's engine seizure waiting to happen.

 

The reverse is also true, oil in coolant is attacking all the seals and polymers in the water pump and radiator train.

 

IMO either leave it in the garage until you can afford to fix it, or sell it.

 

 

[Kinnock]

Maybe it's the translation, but this explanation does not sound logical to me ....

 

"radiator leaking, oil is mixed with coolant which is cause pipe to swell. oil flowing inside pipe, the coolant is sludge. "

 

There's several points where oil and water can mix, the headgasket being the most common, the water pump is another possibility, or internal corrosion in the cooling galleries.  But you can also lose water through leaking hoses, radiator or pump, and you can lose oil through a simple gasket leak.

 

The key issue is if there's evidence of oil and water mixing rather than simple, separate oil and water leaks.

 

The classic sign of a steamy exhaust is easier to spot in cold countries, harder to spot in Thailand.  So the best diagnosis is emulsion 'yoghurt' in the oil.  Easy to spot if you remove the oil filler cap or dipstick (in serious cases) and also if you drain the oil.

 

An oily haze and smell when you remove the radiator cap is another sign (the real radiator cap, not the expansion rank cap ... but be careful removing it if the engine is hot ... ask me how I know).  Some newer engines may not have an easily accessed radiator cap.

 

If no emulsion in the oil, probably just leaky hoses and gaskets.  Cheaper job, but still needs some dismantling.

[impulse]

I'd suggest you get a 2nd opinion from another shop.  Preferably, one that's not buddies with the first one. My car tech knowledge is quite dated and not up to snuff on the latest and greatest, and especially with translation issues. 

 

Back in the day, a radiator seal was outside the radiator, between the radiator and the chassis components. More to keep it from rattling and for airflow. 

 

Nowadays, it seems to describe seals on the oil cooler, which would make sense...  If your car has an oil cooler that uses coolant (and the radiator) to cool the oil.  May not even be a head gasket.  Just out of curiosity, is it a turbo or a tiny engine?

 

In any case, I would get a 2nd opinion.  And 60,000 doesn't seem like a lot, as long as it fixes the problem.  You're going to have to get over the fact that they mark up the price of the parts.  That's the way the shops make money.   Sucks, for sure.  But it's a business and they either need to mark up the parts or charge more for the labor.

 

[steven100]

Book into a nice hotel in Jomtien near Pratumnak Hill ...  

get a nice girl at the bar nearby and relax ....

next day drink some beers again ...

 

then drive the damn car to the top of Pratumnak hill then get out and push it over the edge and watch it crash down on the rocks ...

go back to the hotel for more beers ....  

 

 

[brianthainess]

10 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

radiator leaking, oil is mixed with coolant which is cause pipe to swell. oil flowing inside pipe, the coolant is sludge. "

I think what they mean is the rubber hose pipe has gone soft becoz of the oil, and will swell when under pressure and hot, that will need new hose pipes, its a non fix situation with them.

[Kinnock]

20 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

I think what they mean is the rubber hose pipe has gone soft becoz of the oil, and will swell when under pressure and hot, that will need new hose pipes, its a non fix situation with them.

Still don't understand that one.  Do you have an oil leak from the cam cover that's causing the water hose to be soaked in oil?  Or do they mean oil in the water effecting the hose from inside?

 

Either way, it's the oil leak that's the key issue, not the hose.  Hoses are easy and cheap to replace, but why is the oil there.

[noobexpat]

You can buy test kits to see if you have exhaust gas leaking into your coolant bottle. Thats usually the way to determine cylinder head gasket leak.

 

 

[kickstart]

Head gasket gone,60k is over the top, it may be just head gasket, but the head could be warped, it will need checking, if it is, they can be skimmed, if it over warped then a new head is required, that could be expensive.

Take to another place see what they say.  

[mfinasi]

Thansk everyone, difficult for someone unfamiliar to tell, but I would say if there is a mix of oil and coolant then  it's in the coolant and the engine oil seems okay - but that could be because it changed recently? on the coolant could that be I just didn't dilute it correctly last time I filled it? 

 

Anyway, I'll find a new garage and see what they say.. 

[itsari]

When ever I had a suspicion of a head casket failure I would pull out the dipstick and see what colour it was as if there is water getting into the oil becomes milky.

The garage is qouting for  a new radiator tells me that you should find a new garage .

[sirineou]

10 minutes ago, itsari said:

When ever I had a suspicion of a head casket failure I would pull out the dipstick and see what colour it was as if there is water getting into the oil becomes milky.

The garage is qouting for  a new radiator tells me that you should find a new garage .

Isn't there an oil cooler in the radiator, that could leak? 

[itsari]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Isn't there an oil cooler in the radiator, that could leak? 

If the garage qoutes a head casket replacement it would be hard to imagine that the oil cooler is leaking at the same time .

 

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, itsari said:

If the garage qoutes a head casket replacement it would be hard to imagine that the oil cooler is leaking at the same time .

 

Not an expert but I have taken apart a few engines in my youths. Now I barely know how to open the hood in my car LOL 

I would change the Radiator first, being the cheapest option and see if it resolves the problem with a radiator pressure test ,especially since there is no white smoke coming out of the exhaust. which would indicate that there is no interior head gasket leak  but there could be a head gasket break on the outside. 

 

 

[Thingamabob]

On 2/13/2024 at 2:35 PM, mfinasi said:

How big an issue is coolant mixing with oil, garage has just sent me an itemized bill estimate that looks like it came from a stay at a tier 1 hospital, estimated around 60k with 35k deposit. 

It seems okay to drive, but when replacing the oil locally told the young guy to give it a little check for leaks as some sticky fluid on driveway usually, they just do oil, tires and brakes usually, but took a look and he thinks that that head gasket cover was leaking and that coolant was mixing with oil. Turns out the young lad was correct I think, and a week later another garage knocked down a tree to print me an itemized estimate..  

Tempted to just keep as a run around, and if it dies, then literally bin it, as long as won't explode on me until i run it to the ground..   They are only guaranteeing the work for 6 months and with other exclusions so really at point probably more prudent and quickly cheaper to get a new yaris or something similar

 

 

Nonsensical.