Despite U.S. pressure, the idea of a Palestinian state seems farther away than ever

[ozimoron]

Just now, Jingthing said:

No they haven't and Jews indigenous people of Israel have more ancient and credible roots there.

 

Linked proof please.

[Brickleberry]

Just now, Jingthing said:

No they haven't and Jews indigenous people of Israel have more ancient and credible roots there.

 

Your ignoring history.

 

The area has been Arab for over 2000 years, just after the Roman Conquest ended. Ignoring this makes you look ignorant at best, a liar at the worst.

[ozimoron]

ICJ hearing on the legality of Israeli occupation of Palestine. Occurring now.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Huh? This isn't a religious conflict.

Try a little harder, you are missing a big chunk of the core of the conflicts

[Ben Zioner]

10 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Your ignoring history.

 

The area has been Arab for over 2000 years, just after the Roman Conquest ended. Ignoring this makes you look ignorant at best, a liar at the worst.

Dunno who is ignorant there, the siege of Jerusalem was 636/637, Judea was then a Province or the Roman empire of the Orient..

 

But the place is ours, and thanks to Hamas this is now non negotiable.

Edited February 19 by Ben Zioner

[proton]

30 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Huh? This isn't a religious conflict.

It has ALWAYS been a religious conflict

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Dunno who is ignorant there, the siege of Jerusalem was 636/637, Judea was then a Province or the Roman empire of the Orient..

 

But the place is ours, and thanks to Hamas this is now non negotiable.

 

This zionism isn't something that started on October 7th. Sentiments like yours are precisely what led to the formation of Hamas.

[Brickleberry]

16 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Dunno who is ignorant there, the siege of Jerusalem was 636/637, Judea was then a Province or the Roman empire of the Orient..

 

But the place is ours, and thanks to Hamas this is now non negotiable.

 

No, the place is now yours because of British duplicity, and European racism.

 

The ethnic cleansing, massacres and colonialism needed to establish Israel can never be justified, regardless of who was there first. It’s a moot point. Even if we follow the argument that Palestinians have only been there for 1300 years, does this suddenly legitimize the expulsion of hundreds of thousands? Of course not. There is no possible scenario where it is excusable to ethnically cleanse a people and colonize their lands. Human rights apply to people universally, regardless of whether they have lived in an area for a year or ten thousand years.

[Brickleberry]

23 minutes ago, proton said:

It has ALWAYS been a religious conflict

 

No, it has always been a COLONIAL SETTLER conflict.

[proton]

14 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

No, the place is now yours because of British duplicity, and European racism.

 

The ethnic cleansing, massacres and colonialism needed to establish Israel can never be justified, regardless of who was there first. It’s a moot point. Even if we follow the argument that Palestinians have only been there for 1300 years, does this suddenly legitimize the expulsion of hundreds of thousands? Of course not. There is no possible scenario where it is excusable to ethnically cleanse a people and colonize their lands. Human rights apply to people universally, regardless of whether they have lived in an area for a year or ten thousand years.

 

Yet over 18% of the population of Israel are Arab Muslims with full equal rights and more than in most Arab countries, even the captain of the national football team has been muslim. So much for an 'apartheid' state expelling hundreds of thousands. Interesting that Palestine is never mentioned once in the Quran, but Israel is over 40 times, kind a a hint as to who was there first. There was never a country called Palestine, it's a lie.

[proton]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

No, it has always been a COLONIAL SETTLER conflict.

 

No Jews were there for over 3k years, they were going home, not colonising. Unlike the butchering hordes spreading out of Arabia in the name of Allah!

[Jingthing]

50 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Your ignoring history.

 

The area has been Arab for over 2000 years, just after the Roman Conquest ended. Ignoring this makes you look ignorant at best, a liar at the worst.

Nakes you look ignorant at best, a liar at the worst.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arabs

 

[Jingthing]

Both groups are more or less indigenous at this point in time.

But of course Jews have the more ancient claim.

 

 

Of course ideally they all should learn to coexist in peace and harmony.

But in reality, that's not happening anytime soon if ever.

Edited February 19 by Jingthing

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

No, it has always been a COLONIAL SETTLER conflict.

Why is religion at the core of this conflict?

Several religious factors pertinent to Islam and Judaism dictate the role of religion as the main factor in the conflict, notably including the sanctity of holy sites and the apocalyptic narratives of both religions, which are detrimental to any potential for lasting peace between the two sides. Extreme religious Zionists in Israel increasingly see themselves as guardians and definers of the how the Jewish state should be, and are very stringent when it comes to any concessions to the Arabs. On the other hand, Islamist groups in Palestine and elsewhere in the Islamic world advocate the necessity of liberating the “holy” territories and sites for religious reasons, and preach violence and hatred against Israel and the Jewish people.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/religion-and-israel-palestinian-conflict-cause-consequence-and-cure

[proton]

55 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Your ignoring history.

 

The area has been Arab for over 2000 years, just after the Roman Conquest ended. Ignoring this makes you look ignorant at best, a liar at the worst.

 

History is not your strong point is it, if you don't know better to keep silent than make a fool of yourself.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

No they haven't and Jews indigenous people of Israel have more ancient and credible roots there.

 

Since you deigned to ignore my request for evidence I decided to hit my favourite fact checker, Google Gemini, and it gave me these results, in part, for your exact claim.

 

It should be noted that this text counts as my own since it was AI generated by me and is not a quote of any copyrighted material.

 

Determining the "indigenous" people of a land with such a long and complex history as Israel/Palestine is a highly debated and sensitive topic. It's important to approach it with sensitivity and nuance, avoiding simplifications that can further inflame tensions. Here are some key points to consider:

 

3. Continuous presence:

• Both Jewish and Arab communities have had continuous presence in the region for millennia, enriching its cultural tapestry. Genetic studies indicate significant overlap and intermingling between populations over time.

4. Focus on shared history:

• Recognizing the shared history and deep connections of both communities to the land offers a more constructive approach to understanding the conflict.
• Emphasizing dialogue, mutual respect, and historical accuracy is crucial for finding peaceful solutions.

Edited February 19 by ozimoron

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

Since you deigned to ignore my request for evidence I decided to hit my favourite fact checker, Google Gemini, and it gave me these results, in part, for your exact claim.

 

It should be noted that this text counts as my own since it was AI generated by me and is not a quote of any copyrighted material.

 

Determining the "indigenous" people of a land with such a long and complex history as Israel/Palestine is a highly debated and sensitive topic. It's important to approach it with sensitivity and nuance, avoiding simplifications that can further inflame tensions. Here are some key points to consider:

 

3. Continuous presence:

• Both Jewish and Arab communities have had continuous presence in the region for millennia, enriching its cultural tapestry. Genetic studies indicate significant overlap and intermingling between populations over time.

4. Focus on shared history:

• Recognizing the shared history and deep connections of both communities to the land offers a more constructive approach to understanding the conflict.
• Emphasizing dialogue, mutual respect, and historical accuracy is crucial for finding peaceful solutions.

Tell that to the UNRWA schools that teach Arab kids to kill Jews.

I find AI trends towards pie in the sky platitudes as do the Hamas sympathizers posting here.

Edited February 19 by Jingthing

[Brickleberry]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Tell that to the UNRWA schools that teach Arab kids to kill Jews.

I find AI trends towards pie in the sky platitudes as do the Hamas sympathizers posting here.

 

Fake news. Educate yourself! I'm tired of having to teach you basic history and facts.

From a right wing American source:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-israel-content-un-textbooks

Quote

 

The report on the textbook content of UNRWA schools was completed in April last year but was then classified. Republican lawmakers have been calling for its declassification ever since, and last week succeeded in that push.

US BLOCKS SECURITY COUNCIL CRITICISM OVER ISRAEL'S DECISION TO REMOVE OBSERVERS FROM BIBLICAL CITY OF HEBRON

The report found that some textbooks in UNRWA-run schools did not mention Israel or Judaism and included regional maps that excluded Israel while referring to Israeli cities as Palestinian. They included math problems that challenged pupils to identify the number of Palestinian casualties in the First and Second Intifadas. The report will fuel long-standing concerns from conservatives that the U.S. was funding anti-Semitism and anti-Israel sentiments via funding for UNRWA, which was halted last year.

 

 

From UNRWA:

Quote

A recent report about the Palestinian Authority textbooks being used in UNRWA schools is inaccurate and misleading. 178 of the books cited are not being used in UNRWA schools; that’s almost 90 per cent of the evidence on which the conclusions of the report are based. These books are not being used in UNRWA schools for a number of reasons:

They were phased out when the Palestinian Authority changed their curriculum and textbooks starting in 2016, though the books relating to the old Palestinian Authority curriculum were found to be free of incitement to terrorism by an independent US State Department review.

They are for the higher grades 11-12; grades which are not taught in UNRWA schools in Gaza and the West Bank. 

They were 'pilot' for the first year of the rollout of the new PA textbooks in the school year 2016-17. New 2017 versions are applicable for the school year 2017-18.

23 of the books reviewed in the report are being used in our schools and we have reviewed them rigorously under our curriculum framework, which aims to ensure that our curriculum is in line with UN values. In the small number of instances where issues of concern were found, we have created enriched complementary materials for use in our classrooms and we will be rolling out training on this to our teachers in the coming months. UNRWA’s condemnation of all forms of racism is a matter of public record.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

7 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

This is just blatantly false. I'm sorry, but this shows a lack of understanding. Arab Jews did not have any problems in the region prior to 1947, 

 

 

 

   The 1929 riots that left hundreds dead 

 

 

The riots took the form, for the most part, of attacks by Arabs on Jews accompanied by destruction of Jewish property. During the week of riots, from 23 to 29 August 1929, 133 Jews were killed by Arabs, 

 

The British-appointed Shaw Commission found that the fundamental cause of the violence, "without which in our opinion disturbances either would not have occurred or would have been little more than a local riot, is the Arab feeling of animosity and hostility towards the Jews consequent upon the disappointment of their political and national aspirations and fear for their economic future",

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots#:~:text=During the week of riots,Mandate police suppressing the riots.

 

[Brickleberry]

1 hour ago, proton said:

 

History is not your strong point is it, if you don't know better to keep silent than make a fool of yourself.

 

Arabs have lived in that land for over a millennia. Any lies to say they haven't are just precisely that, lies. It has been under Arab rule for over 1,600 years. 

 

1 hour ago, proton said:

 

No Jews were there for over 3k years, they were going home, not colonising. Unlike the butchering hordes spreading out of Arabia in the name of Allah!

 

No, they were not going home. White Europeans never, ever inhabited that area. Your also historically inaccurate. It was the Romans who expelled the Jews from that area. Let's leave your Islamophobia out of this shall we?

 

Abraham himself was born in what is now modern day Iraq, and moved to Israel to conquer the Canaanites - our modern day 'Palestinians' - because god told him that this was their promised land. So technically, the birthplace of the Jewish race is where the Jews originated from - Iraq. 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Arabs have lived in that land for over a millennia. Any lies to say they haven't are just precisely that, lies. It has been under Arab rule for over 1,600 years. 

 

 

 

 

   Jews have lived on the land for over 3000 years 

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Fake news. Educate yourself! I'm tired of having to teach you basic history and facts.

From a right wing American source:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-israel-content-un-textbooks

 

From UNRWA:

 

This is 5 years old and since then plenty of evidence has been found, numerous credible links to the evidence have been posted in the appropriate topics.

 

Oh and here's some actual up to date news.

 

The US is no longer suspending the funding for UNRWA, it has stopped it for good.

 

Congress has made clear that U.S. funding for the agency will stop for good, the U.S. special envoy for Middle East humanitarian issues, David Satterfield, told an event hosted by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace on Friday.

https://apnews.com/article/gaza-israel-palestinians-united-nations-unrwa-refugees-3400ea1f1ce125ed2cb4e47cc39bf105

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Vietnam is a country with weapons manufacturing capabilities. Hamas is in an open air prison and makes handmade rockets powered with sugar. What's your point? The two are completely different. 

 

   Hamas make these from sugar ?

 

 

 

[Brickleberry]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Hamas make these from sugar ?

 

 

Educate yourself: They use sugar as fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

Quote

 

The Qassam rocket (Arabic: صاروخ القسام Ṣārūkh al-Qassām; also Kassam) is a simple, steel artillery rocket developed and deployed by the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military arm of Hamas. These rockets cannot be fired to target specific military objectives in or near civilian areas, and are "indiscriminate when used against targets in population centers".^[4]

Since the rocket was first manufactured in 2001 by Tito Masoud and Nidal Farhat, three models of the Qassam rocket have been produced and used. More generally, all types of Palestinian rockets fired into southern Israel, for example the Palestinian Islamic Jihad Al Quds rockets, are called Qassams by the Israeli media, and often by foreign media.^[5]

Leading international human rights organizations have called Palestinian armed groups' use of Qassam rockets against civilian and civilian targets a war crime and a violation of international law.

Many of the rocket's components are made of common materials such as sugar, fertilizer, firearms cartridges, springs, nails, and steel cylinders.

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Educate yourself: They use sugar as fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

 

 

   What is the relevance of the fuel ?

Are they eco friendly ?

Are Hamas trying to save the environment ?

[bannork]

Netanayu supporting Hamas .

In 2019, Mr Netanyahu told colleagues in his ruling Likud party: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas… This is part of our strategy - to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

Keeping Hamas strong enough to be an effective rival to Fatah - its West Bank rival - would prevent the possibility of a "unified Palestinian leadership with whom you would have to negotiate some kind of final settlement", says Khaled Elgindy, senior fellow on Palestine.

[bannork]

"Israeli PM 'missed chance' to cut off Hamas cash, says ex-spy chief - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68318856

[billd766]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No they don't.

What the majority of Palestians want is River to the sea, Israel ended, with the Jews dead and/or gone.

How many Palestinians have you actually personally interviewed to reach that conclusion and when?

[billd766]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

750,000? What biased source did you get that number from? 

I find your attitude pathetic.

You act like the Arabs there are Canadians.

Refer to Grand Mufti of Jerusalem -- Hitler history.

 

Why not go even further back and refer to King Herod 2,000 years ago?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:17 PM, Jingthing said:

So what do you think those lovely people intend to do with the Jews there when Israel is gone?

I'm not saying that it will happen, but if Israel did cease to exist the Jews would be able to move to America as immigrants, while the legal occupants of lands seized in war by israel are only able to be refugees in places like Jordan and Lebanon.