UN finds evidence of rape on Oct. 7 and after; Israel: They tried to downplay issue

[Social Media]

 

The United Nations has released a report indicating evidence of rape and sexual abuse during the October 7 Hamas onslaught against southern Israel. The report, presented by Pramila Patten, the UN special representative on sexual violence in conflict, at a press conference in New York, outlines disturbing findings based on extensive evidence-gathering efforts.

 

According to the 24-page report, there is "clear and convincing" information suggesting that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and other forms of abuse, was committed against hostages held in captivity by Hamas in Gaza. Moreover, there are "reasonable grounds" to believe that such violence is ongoing against those still held captive.

 

 

Patten's team conducted meetings and interviews with survivors, witnesses, first responders, and others, as well as reviewed thousands of photographic images and hours of footage of the attacks. While the report focused on events in Israel and the West Bank, due to ongoing conflict, the team did not visit Gaza.

 

The evidence suggests that rape and gang rape occurred in at least three locations during the October 7 attacks, including the Supernova music festival site, Kibbutz Re'im, and along Route 232. Victims were often subjected to sexual violence before being killed, with some instances involving the rape of women's corpses.

 

Patten also addressed allegations of sexual violence in the West Bank, including cruel and degrading treatment by Israeli security forces. However, some allegations could not be verified, and others were determined to be unfounded.

 

 

In response to the report, Israel criticized the UN for its delayed recognition of the sex crimes and accused it of silencing the issue. Israeli Ambassador Gilad Erdan condemned the UN's inaction and called for urgent action to address the atrocities.

 

Foreign Minister Israel Katz expressed disappointment with UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres for not taking stronger measures against Hamas. Katz called for sanctions on Hamas supporters and urged Guterres to address the issue promptly.

 

The UN's response to the report has been met with criticism, with concerns raised about its handling of the situation and the delayed acknowledgment of the atrocities committed. Jewish and Israeli feminist groups have expressed outrage over the UN's silence on Hamas's use of sexual violence as a weapon of war.

 

Overall, the UN report sheds light on the disturbing reality of sexual violence during the October 7 attacks and underscores the urgent need for accountability and action to address such atrocities.

 

05.03.24

Source

 

[WDSmart]

11 hours ago, Social Media said:

According to the 24-page report, there is "clear and convincing" information suggesting that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and other forms of abuse, was committed against hostages held in captivity by Hamas in Gaza. Moreover, there are "reasonable grounds" to believe that such violence is ongoing against those still held captive.

I don't doubt that this is true, and this should make these current negotiations that reportedly include a six-week ceasefire for an exchange of about 30 of the suspected 130+ hostages and many prisoners being held by Israel more pressing. I hope the negotiations are expanded to include a PERMANENT ceasefire in exchange for ALL hostages and prisoners. 

[Bkk Brian]

I would expect nothing else from the terrorists. 

 

Hamas Denies UN Report Finding Terror Group Committed Sexual Violence on Oct. 7

The UN’s Office of the Special Representative of the Secretary General on Monday issued the long-anticipated report, which said Hamas may today still be abusing women kept as hostages in Gaza. The inquiry was led by Pramila Patten, the team’s special envoy.

In response, Hamas accused the UN of pushing a pro-Israel bias.

https://www.algemeiner.com/2024/03/05/hamas-denies-un-report-finding-terror-group-committed-sexual-violence-on-oct-7/

[Jingthing]

18 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I don't doubt that this is true, and this should make these current negotiations that reportedly include a six-week ceasefire for an exchange of about 30 of the suspected 130+ hostages and many prisoners being held by Israel more pressing. I hope the negotiations are expanded to include a PERMANENT ceasefire in exchange for ALL hostages and prisoners. 

How can Israel accept a permanent ceasefire unless Hamas surrenders?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

How can Israel accept a permanent ceasefire unless Hamas surrenders?

 

How can Hamas surrender when Israel is continuing war crimes and showing no sign of compliance with ICJ orders?

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

How can Israel accept a permanent ceasefire unless Hamas surrenders?

Well, that depends on what you mean by "surrender."

If you mean that Hamas agrees to...
- return all the hostages;
- commit to a ceasefire also;
- engage in talks to establish a two-state solution;
...then, I think Israel might not accept that. 

If you mean that Hamas agrees to...
- return all the hostages;
- commit to a ceasefire also;
- accepts living in a one-state solution under complete Israeli control;
...then, I think Israel would gladly accept that.

[Brickleberry]

On 3/6/2024 at 12:02 PM, Jingthing said:

How can Israel accept a permanent ceasefire unless Hamas surrenders?

 

Hamas is a government. They are also freedom fighters. They are not terrorists. Terrorists don't have ministries, a government and are most definitely not elected to represent the people. This is an American and Israeli tactic to smother any information coming out of Gaza, and to reduce the people and government's standing.

 

Hamas is not to blame, Israel is. Israel is a settler colonial project that has failed, and must end.

 

Interesting to note that the source of this article is 'the times of Israel'. Why did they not choose to link directly to the source? Because the source - The UN- does not say there is evidence of systemic rape. In fact, they point out very clearly that they did not speak to a single victim or survivor of rape. They also point out that this was NOT an investigation, and that they did not collect any evidence. In fact, the report notes that there is very little evidence, noting that it might be impossible to verify any of Israel's claims. The language used by the UN was very careful, in fact it actually downplays and refutes Israel's claims.

 

It also notes that there is actual evidence of Israelis raping and sexually abusing Palestinians. They were able to speak to real people who claimed Israeli soldiers abused, beat, starved, humiliated and raped them. This is first hand evidence, and detailed in the report.... but no mention of Arabs getting raped in this thread. Why? Bias. 

 

This is why people need to read the actual sources, and not rely on biased reporting from Israel. Here is the UN report in full, from the UN's website.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217

[Jingthing]

On 3/6/2024 at 1:41 PM, WDSmart said:

Well, that depends on what you mean by "surrender."

If you mean that Hamas agrees to...
- return all the hostages;
- commit to a ceasefire also;
- engage in talks to establish a two-state solution;
...then, I think Israel might not accept that. 

If you mean that Hamas agrees to...
- return all the hostages;
- commit to a ceasefire also;
- accepts living in a one-state solution under complete Israeli control;
...then, I think Israel would gladly accept that.

Hamas can have nothing to do with governing Palestinians ever again.

[Bkk Brian]

7 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Hamas is a government. They are also freedom fighters. They are not terrorists. Terrorists don't have ministries, a government and are most definitely not elected to represent the people. This is an American and Israeli tactic to smother any information coming out of Gaza, and to reduce the people and government's standing.

 

Hamas is not to blame, Israel is. Israel is a settler colonial project that has failed, and must end.

 

Interesting to note that the source of this article is 'the times of Israel'. Why did they not choose to link directly to the source? Because the source - The UN- does not say there is evidence of systemic rape. In fact, they point out very clearly that they did not speak to a single victim or survivor of rape. They also point out that this was NOT an investigation, and that they did not collect any evidence. In fact, the report notes that there is very little evidence, noting that it might be impossible to verify any of Israel's claims. The language used by the UN was very careful, in fact it actually downplays and refutes Israel's claims.

 

It also notes that there is actual evidence of Israelis raping and sexually abusing Palestinians. They were able to speak to real people who claimed Israeli soldiers abused, beat, starved, humiliated and raped them. This is first hand evidence, and detailed in the report.... but no mention of Arabs getting raped in this thread. Why? Bias. 

 

This is why people need to read the actual sources, and not rely on biased reporting from Israel. Here is the UN report in full, from the UN's website.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217

Hamas is a government. They are also freedom fighters. They are not terrorists. 

 

Freedom fighters don’t brutally rape burn, behead , massacre, send missiles to citizens and kidnap babies/ civilians. A freedom fighter fights the enemy combatants. Hamas and many of the Palestinians that joined them on 7th Oct are not freedom fighters ; these are monsters. They don’t even care about the land or accept a two state solution. They just want Jewish blood and to wipe Israel off the map.

 

Now stop the lies and provide the evidence via credible link to the below false claims of yours, it is NOT detailed in the report as you claim. Spreading misinformation on this is a vile and disgusting act not least of which being against forum rules. The visit to to the occupied West Bank is detailed on page 20 paragraph IV. You have a lot of explaining to do to cover the misinformation below.

 

7 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

It also notes that there is actual evidence of Israelis raping and sexually abusing Palestinians. They were able to speak to real people who claimed Israeli soldiers abused, beat, starved, humiliated and raped them. This is first hand evidence, and detailed in the report.... but no mention of Arabs getting raped in this thread. Why? Bias. 

 

 

 

 

[WDSmart]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Hamas can have nothing to do with governing Palestinians ever again.

I agree with that, and also hope the same happens with Zionists governing Isrealis. 

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hamas is a government. They are also freedom fighters. They are not terrorists. 

 

Freedom fighters don’t brutally rape burn, behead , massacre, send missiles to citizens and kidnap babies/ civilians. A freedom fighter fights the enemy combatants. Hamas and many of the Palestinians that joined them on 7th Oct are not freedom fighters ; these are monsters. They don’t even care about the land or accept a two state solution. They just want Jewish blood and to wipe Israel off the map.

 

Now stop the lies and provide the evidence via credible link to the below false claims of yours, it is NOT detailed in the report as you claim. Spreading misinformation on this is a vile and disgusting act not least of which being against forum rules. The visit to to the occupied West Bank is detailed on page 20 paragraph IV. You have a lot of explaining to do to cover the misinformation below.

 

 

 

 

I agree that referring to Hamas militants as "freedom fighters" is controversial, but there is a thread of truth in that. They are fighting for the freedom of the Palestinian people to live in and control their own state. I now refer to them as "militants," which is defined in the online Oxford Language Dictionary as:  "favouring confrontational or violent methods in support of a political or social cause." That definition, by the way, also should apply to Zionists in Israel but not to all of the IDF.

There are plenty of instances of Israeli militants torturing, killing, "raping and sexually abusing Palestinians."  This has happened countless times over the past 80 years. However, I've never read about a single instance as directed and horrific as the Hamas Oct 7 terrorist attack.

[Skipalongcassidy]

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I agree that referring to Hamas militants as "freedom fighters" is controversial, but there is a thread of truth in that. They are fighting for the freedom of the Palestinian people to live in and control their own state. I now refer to them as "militants," which is defined in the online Oxford Language Dictionary as:  "favouring confrontational or violent methods in support of a political or social cause." That definition, by the way, also should apply to Zionists in Israel but not to all of the IDF.

There are plenty of instances of Israeli militants torturing, killing, "raping and sexually abusing Palestinians."  This has happened countless times over the past 80 years. However, I've never read about a single instance as directed and horrific as the Hamas Oct 7 terrorist attack.

Hamas is not fighting for the freedom of the Palestinian people to live in and control their own state... they are fighting to continue to rule and use the Palestinian people while they terrorize Israel... 

Can you please provide a link to the "plenty" of unprovoked instances of Israeli militants torturing, killing, "raping and sexually abusing Palestinians".  Since as you say it has happened countless times there should be "countless" links available.

[WDSmart]

36 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Hamas is not fighting for the freedom of the Palestinian people to live in and control their own state... they are fighting to continue to rule and use the Palestinian people while they terrorize Israel... 

Can you please provide a link to the "plenty" of unprovoked instances of Israeli militants torturing, killing, "raping and sexually abusing Palestinians".  Since as you say it has happened countless times there should be "countless" links available.

Again, I agree that Hamas wants to continue to rule Palestine, but their motive is not just to "terrorize Israel." They do that as one of their tactics to drive Israelis out of what they consider to be their land. And I agree that this is not a totally acceptable tactic now, but one that has been used worldwide countless times. It's what a small group can do to a larger group that has more military might to cause chaos in their opponent's ranks.

 

Here are two links with the information you asked for. Both sides' "provocation" is the goal of possessing the entire territory for themselves — a one-state solution.

The first details a history of the conflict: History of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict - Wikipedia

The second speaks specifically about rape and sexual abuse by the IDF during the current events: UN experts speak out about sexual assault and mistreatment of Palestinian women and girls by IDF | The Independent

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

I agree that referring to Hamas militants as "freedom fighters" is controversial, but there is a thread of truth in that. They are fighting for the freedom of the Palestinian people to live in and control their own state. I now refer to them as "militants," which is defined in the online Oxford Language Dictionary as:  "favouring confrontational or violent methods in support of a political or social cause." That definition, by the way, also should apply to Zionists in Israel but not to all of the IDF.

There are plenty of instances of Israeli militants torturing, killing, "raping and sexually abusing Palestinians."  This has happened countless times over the past 80 years. However, I've never read about a single instance as directed and horrific as the Hamas Oct 7 terrorist attack.

Argentina, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, Paraguay, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the United States and the European Union have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization for a reason, period.

 

The poster also lied about what the report said. Period. 

[WDSmart]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Argentina, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, Paraguay, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the United States and the European Union have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization for a reason, period.

 

The poster also lied about what the report said. Period. 

I refer to Hamas as a "militant organization." They do use terrorist tactics. So does Israel from time to time, but I don't refer to the IDF as "terrorists." Period.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

I refer to Hamas as a "militant organization." They do use terrorist tactics. So does Israel from time to time, but I don't refer to the IDF as "terrorists." Period.

This is not about you and your alternate reality though.

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is not about you and your alternate reality though.

Actually, I think it is you that is in an "alternative reality." For some reason, you think all this is black and white, and you think Israel is always on the right side, doing the right thing, and never, ever doing anything wrong. That is DEFINITELY an "alternative reality." 😞 
Israel and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Actually, I think it is you that is in an "alternative reality." For some reason, you think all this is black and white, and you think Israel is always on the right side, doing the right thing, and never, ever doing anything wrong. That is DEFINITELY an "alternative reality." 😞 
Israel and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

Why? I deal with the facts:

 

26 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Argentina, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, Paraguay, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the United States and the European Union have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization for a reason, period.

 

The poster also lied about what the report said. Period. 

 

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why? I deal with the facts:

 

33 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Argentina, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, Paraguay, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the United States and the European Union have designated Hamas as a terrorist organization for a reason, period.

 

The poster also lied about what the report said. Period. 

You only deal with the "facts" that support your alternative reality...

"Countries that have condemned Israel's role as a perpetrator of state-sponsored terrorism or state terrorism include Bolivia, Iran, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, and Yemen."
Israel and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

Which list of states do you think is more in the position to know because of their own worry about the topic and their geographical location to the conflict?

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I agree with that, and also hope the same happens with Zionists governing Isrealis. 

Silly post.

No Zionism means no Israel.

Duh.

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Silly post.

No Zionism means no Israel.

Duh.

 

Off topic

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I agree with that, and also hope the same happens with Zionists governing Isrealis. 

Silly post.

No Zionism means no Israel.

Duh.

"No Zionism" means the possibility of a permanent ceasefire, a return of all hostages, a release of all prisoners, and, most importantly, negotiations to establish a two-state solution. That would not mean "no Israel." That would also not mean "no Palestine." That would mean each group could live in and control their own state. 

It would also have to include "No Hamas" also. 

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

No it doesn't. Israel exists. Job done, the zionists should have packed up their racism and ridden off into the sunset 70 years ago.

No, Zionism is alive and well. One of the most prominent examples of this is Israel's PM, Netanyahu. 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

No, Zionism is alive and well. One of the most prominent examples of this is Israel's PM, Netanyahu. 

 

I edited my post. This is off topic.

[WDSmart]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

No, Zionism is alive and well. One of the most prominent examples of this is Israel's PM, Netanyahu. 

 

I edited my post. This is off topic.

I don't know how Zionism and Hamas could be "off topic" in any discussion concerning atrocities committed during the war in Gaza. The goals and tactics of both Zionism and Hamas have led to the commission of these.

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

You only deal with the "facts" that support your alternative reality...

"Countries that have condemned Israel's role as a perpetrator of state-sponsored terrorism or state terrorism include Bolivia, Iran, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, and Yemen."
Israel and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

Which list of states do you think is more in the position to know because of their own worry about the topic and their geographical location to the conflict?

Wrong. Read my post again and stop making things up.

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

23 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

You only deal with the "facts" that support your alternative reality...

"Countries that have condemned Israel's role as a perpetrator of state-sponsored terrorism or state terrorism include Bolivia, Iran, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, and Yemen."
Israel and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

Which list of states do you think is more in the position to know because of their own worry about the topic and their geographical location to the conflict?

Expand  

Wrong. Read my post again and stop making things up.

I reread your post. I think my response was appropriate.

If by "making things up," you mean "expressing my opinion" or "drawing my own conclusions," I will have to warn you that I will not stop doing that.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I reread your post. I think my response was appropriate.

If by "making things up," you mean "expressing my opinion" or "drawing my own conclusions," I will have to warn you that I will not stop doing that.

I am not asking you to stop, if you read my post you'll see I'm not asking you to stop. If you read my post you'll also see it contains facts, nothing else. Again your alternate realty is not my concern.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

It astounds me that Hamas apologists can actually speak out in public in support of them. Truly unimaginable to be that much delusional and hold that much hatred for Israeli people.  IMO only a person who also holds the belief of Hamas, being the total destruction and remnoval of all Jews, can state things in their favour.

 

I have said it before and I will say it again - Israel will not stop the war until they have destroyed all of Hamas and their supporters. I do feel for the innocent Palestinians, but they are in the minority IMO - and all deaths in Gaza on on Hamas - all they have to do is surrender to stand trial, and release all the hostages.  Israel has already agreed that any trial/s could be held by an independent group/country.  

[Jingthing]

49 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

"No Zionism" means the possibility of a permanent ceasefire, a return of all hostages, a release of all prisoners, and, most importantly, negotiations to establish a two-state solution. That would not mean "no Israel." That would also not mean "no Palestine." That would mean each group could live in and control their own state. 

It would also have to include "No Hamas" also. 

You don't know what Zionism is.