bank was no longer accepting new accts from AMERICANS,

[cdemundo]

16 hours ago, khunbillmex said:

In preparation for Direct Deposit of US Veterans benifits e went to our bank here in khon kaen where we have 4 accts to open a new one for the DD only to find that the bank was no longer accepting new accts from     AMERICANS, **  Have you heard  of this from other Vets here in Thailand. The bank officer was unsure if this was an all Thai banks policy, said that she heard that there were some banks in Bangkok still taking new accts.  Also I assume the DD can't go into a Joint acct for obvious reasons. How much else can go wrong? I have certainly had a year of it.

We'll be checking with other banks but it doesn't seem hopeful,

we didn't aask whenthis ce  in effectbut it seemed the officer was quite familiar with the policy

this was at TTB bank

 

I know this wasn't your question but as a suggestion...

 

Could you have your benefits deposited in a US bank and just make ATM withdrawals here of the funds you need?

This is what I have done with my SS benefits.

I use a Charles Schwab Investor Checking account and they refund all ATM fees each month.

I have never had a Thai bank ATM refuse my Schwab debit card.

 

I have an account with Siam Commercial Bank where my employer deposits my salary but I never transfer any funds from the US into that account.

Best of luck in finding a solution that works for you.

[JimTripper]

13 hours ago, Dan O said:

Yes you not only lose all benefits but if you have any financial investment holdings in the USA you must sell them and pay tax on the value. 

It may possible to transfer investments to an international brokerage with the same firm without selling, but not sure about the details.

[cjinchiangrai]

15 hours ago, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

And give up the pension? Pass!

[eisfeld]

3 hours ago, Dan O said:

You lose support of the Dual Tax Agreements with other countries.

 

Not true. The US has a dual taxation treaty with Thailand which I am benefiting from even though I am not a US citizen.

 

3 hours ago, Dan O said:

You must pay tax on market value of financial investments at the time.

 

There seem to be generous exemptions which probably would  apply to most people like $2M net worth, $171k annual income.

 

3 hours ago, Dan O said:

Banks don't get trouble from the US banking system but they just have to file and account for US investment to the IRS like several other countries.

 

A Thai bank does not care if a US citizen has investment in the US obviously. It's about reporting several things like net asset value, income and especially suspicious transactions that might run afoul of AML regulations.

 

3 hours ago, Dan O said:

They opened the can of worms by deciding to tax all income with properly writing the controlling regs on how to do it.

You are mixing here Thai taxation with US taxation. The controlling regulations are written btw. The only thing that changed was the interpretation of one paragraph which exempted certain income which it now doesn't. But again that's Thai tax regulation that applies to everyone and has nothing to do with Thai banks refusing american customers. The banks already started that before the recent tax change and they don't do it with anyone else in the same manner as with americans.

 

3 hours ago, Dan O said:

Also by participating  in CRS

 

Thailand does currently not participate in CRS.

 

3 hours ago, Dan O said:

You statement about Banks not wanting  to work with Americans is not completely accurate as the crackdown is for all nationalities due to the issues outlined above and the financial crackdown on mule accounts and grey market business and issuing accounts to all foreigners that are not on long term visa categories as the bank regs call for

You are mixing a lot of different topics. The fact is that banks are more reluctant to accept american customers compared to say europeans. None of the topics of the Thai tax changes, mule accounts etc. are related to americans specifically. From the sound of it the OP probably has a long term visa (retirement, marriage) so that also doesn't apply.

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

I can remember this all blew up about 20 years ago when many banks worldwide, even the Swiss, stopped taking US customers due to the paperwork hassle.

Not heard much complaining recently and had assumed modern day techniques had eased the situation.

Its 1 form that listed name, address, account information and EITN number (SS). Now Thailand is trying to head down this same road 

[Dan O]

22 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

Not true. The US has a dual taxation treaty with Thailand which I am benefiting from even though I am not a US citizen.

 

 

There seem to be generous exemptions which probably would  apply to most people like $2M net worth, $171k annual income.

 

 

A Thai bank does not care if a US citizen has investment in the US obviously. It's about reporting several things like net asset value, income and especially suspicious transactions that might run afoul of AML regulations.

 

You are mixing here Thai taxation with US taxation. The controlling regulations are written btw. The only thing that changed was the interpretation of one paragraph which exempted certain income which it now doesn't. But again that's Thai tax regulation that applies to everyone and has nothing to do with Thai banks refusing american customers. The banks already started that before the recent tax change and they don't do it with anyone else in the same manner as with americans.

 

 

Thailand does currently not participate in CRS.

 

You are mixing a lot of different topics. The fact is that banks are more reluctant to accept american customers compared to say europeans. None of the topics of the Thai tax changes, mule accounts etc. are related to americans specifically. From the sound of it the OP probably has a long term visa (retirement, marriage) so that also doesn't apply.

No Im not mixing topics Im explaining whats really been going on. The OP Topic claimed its Americans and its not, its all foreigners and depending on the Bank they are throwing in their own twists.

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, Dan O said:

When you renounce your citizenship you forfit your US benefits and for tax purposes and must pay taxes on market value of financial investments. it doesn't mean you can't buy property or own financial investments but by renouncing citizenship you can not benefit tax wise from that action.

 

Not in most cases. 
 

Quote

If you have financial assets worth over $2 million, you may have to pay a one-off exit tax calculated as a capital gains tax as if you sold all of your assets on the day you renounced.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesfinancecouncil/2021/11/03/when-might-renouncing-us-citizenship-make-sense-from-a-tax-point-of-view/?sh=20d3e38c23fa

 

Seems to be a tax on unrealized capital gains on folks with enough funds to lawyer up later and try to beat the system.

 

A tax on the unrealized gains, not on the market value.

 

Quote

The Exit Tax is computed as if you sold all your assets on the day before you expatriated, and had to report the gain.  Currently, net capital gains can be taxed as high as 23.8%, including the net investment income tax.

 

Oh, and the first $767K of gain is exempt.  Also the $2 million is for single filers, married couples need to have more than $4 million.

[Dan O]

25 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

Not true. The US has a dual taxation treaty with Thailand which I am benefiting from even though I am not a US citizen.

 

 

There seem to be generous exemptions which probably would  apply to most people like $2M net worth, $171k annual income.

 

 

A Thai bank does not care if a US citizen has investment in the US obviously. It's about reporting several things like net asset value, income and especially suspicious transactions that might run afoul of AML regulations.

 

You are mixing here Thai taxation with US taxation. The controlling regulations are written btw. The only thing that changed was the interpretation of one paragraph which exempted certain income which it now doesn't. But again that's Thai tax regulation that applies to everyone and has nothing to do with Thai banks refusing american customers. The banks already started that before the recent tax change and they don't do it with anyone else in the same manner as with americans.

 

 

Thailand does currently not participate in CRS.

 

You are mixing a lot of different topics. The fact is that banks are more reluctant to accept american customers compared to say europeans. None of the topics of the Thai tax changes, mule accounts etc. are related to americans specifically. From the sound of it the OP probably has a long term visa (retirement, marriage) so that also doesn't apply.

your now talking out the side of your head and deflecting from the discussion.  This topic went into renouncing your citizenship and once you do that you loose many but not all benefits of being an American, including protection under DTA if your no longer a citizen. As for the regs, yes they change the interpretation of 1 part but have not written any regulatory guidance on how to process that change. The claim that banks are reject all or only americans is bs and I already explained whats happening there. If you choose to ignore that fine thats your choice. Thailand has agreed to follow and participate in CRS although they have not signed on as a member. Im done discussing this with you as your just going in circles. Have a good day

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

 

I know this wasn't your question but as a suggestion...

 

Could you have your benefits deposited in a US bank and just make ATM withdrawals here of the funds you need?

This is what I have done with my SS benefits.

I use a Charles Schwab Investor Checking account and they refund all ATM fees each month.

I have never had a Thai bank ATM refuse my Schwab debit card.

 

I have an account with Siam Commercial Bank where my employer deposits my salary but I never transfer any funds from the US into that account.

Best of luck in finding a solution that works for you.

SS benefits are not taxable by any other entity than the US govt. Its clearly outlined in the DTA.

[spidermike007]

This has been happening around the world, for quite some time. The US govt. is so intrusive, so demanding, that many banks have decided it is just not worth the expense to fulfill their requests. I would encourage them to just say no to America.

[Mike Lister]

There is of course an overlap between tax and banking but can we please not stray too far down the tax foxhole since when we start to to talk about the implications of US Exit Tax, things get very complicated and that's perhaps too far off topic.

 

 

[Presnock]

11 hours ago, eisfeld said:

 

Which part isn't true? I didn't say they all refuse americans. Many still accept americans but the times are changing as they say. Banks only get trouble dealing with the US and sometimes severely so while at the same time getting no revenue from it. Some are starting to refuse to do business with americans and the trend is clear. I don't think many americans were opening mule accounts in Thailand btw. That's usually poor locals or from neighbouring countries. That they refuse americans also has nothing to do with taxation changes. The bank couldn't care less if you as an individual have to pay taxes or not and it's also not specific to americans.

 

Regarding the information sharing that's also something not american. The biggest agreement in place here is the CRS - Common Reporting System. Thailand didn't sign it but is taking part in a global tax transparency effort.

 

But the only country that is actively putting serious pressure on banks all around the world is the US threatening to cut them off for banking networks or heavy fines.

 

 

Can you clarify? I'm not a US citizen and not familiar with what happens when you renounce that citizenship but foreigners can have financial investments in the USA just fine.

you mention that Thailand did not sign the OECD agreement - then why have they been on the OECD committees for many years already?

IN addition, Thailand is listed as a member country too.  JUst wondering where you found that Thailand does not have to share the banking information of foreign citizens?

[ThaiFelix]

Yep I was in a bank in Kranuan a couple of years ago opening an account with a pommy friend.  For some reason, without checking, the woman said to my mate "youre american, sorry cant help you, your government makes it too hard".  I was going to ask "why are they bombing here too?" but she suddenly saw his passport and realised he was English and sorted an account for him too.

[Peterphuket]

18 hours ago, PJ71 said:

Just closed my account with them after 18 years, once the stopped their website i'd had enough!

Since I am considering the same for the same reason, what is the alternative?

[PJ71]

26 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

Since I am considering the same for the same reason, what is the alternative?

I've had a BKK bank account for 20+ years, always found them to be way better.

 

I had a nice balance in the purple bank and took great pleasure in transferring to my other account, it takes about 2-3 months to close account.

[Peterphuket]

2 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

I've had a BKK bank account for 20+ years, always found them to be way better.

 

I had a nice balance in the purple bank and took great pleasure in transferring to my other account, it takes about 2-3 months to close account.

Clear, thanks for the response.

[rwill]

Several years ago I opened an account with KTB.  Very easy to open and not much paperwork.  But they would not pay me interest.  They did not want to deal with the USA's reporting requirements.

[scorecard]

19 hours ago, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

But what if he has no other citizenship? He would be stateless...

[cdemundo]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

SS benefits are not taxable by any other entity than the US govt. Its clearly outlined in the DTA.

Not sure why this is posted in response to my post, I was  responding to the OPs original question about how to bank his DD benefits.

How to bank his DD benefits since he was having difficulty opening a Thai bank account was the question of the thread before the fantasy of denouncing citizenship took over.

Nothing at all to do with taxation.

[Dan O]

8 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

Not sure why this is posted in response to my post, I was  responding to the OPs original question about how to bank his DD benefits.

How to bank his DD benefits since he was having difficulty opening a Thai bank account was the question of the thread before the fantasy of denouncing citizenship took over.

Nothing at all to do with taxation.

Not sure why my post went to you either as I was trying to reply to another poster. Sorry for the confusion

[Foxx]

50 minutes ago, scorecard said:

But what if he has no other citizenship? He would be stateless...

Already answered (by me).  Try reading the whole topic.

BTW, the US does allow people to renounce their citizenship and become stateless.  More civilised countries generally don't permit that.

[Sheryl]

There is no high level nationwide bank policy of this sort.

 

Rather bank branches got instructions from their head offices on additional form to fill out in the case of a US account holder. Not in fact that complex a form. But of course, in English and unfamiliar to them.

 

Typically, some are afraid or unwilling to follow this and opt to just refuse to open account.

 

Try a different bank.

[khunjeff]

22 hours ago, khunbillmex said:

the bank was no longer accepting new accts from     AMERICANS, **  Have you heard  of this from other Vets here in Thailand. The bank officer was unsure if this was an all Thai banks policy

 

Obviously the manager of an individual branch can make up whatever absurd rules he or she likes, but no, this is not an "all Thai banks" policy and is not even the rule of any Thai bank.

 

21 hours ago, Crossy said:

The problem is FATCA and the associated paperwork, many banks just can't be bothered.

 

What they don't understand is that they're stuck with the paperwork whether they like it or not. The Bank of Thailand signed an agreement with the US Treasury Department a number of years ago obliging all Thai banks to comply with FATCA, so no bank - and certainly no branch - can opt out of that, no matter what the manager wants; they must make every new customer fill out the US paperwork to determine whether they meet the definition of a "US person".

 

They also misunderstand what's involved in having "US persons" as customers - the reporting is all done electronically at the HQ level, with essentially no work required by the branch.

[Roo Island]

Go to another branch or try another bank.

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

 

Obviously the manager of an individual branch can make up whatever absurd rules he or she likes, but no, this is not an "all Thai banks" policy and is not even the rule of any Thai bank.

 

 

What they don't understand is that they're stuck with the paperwork whether they like it or not. The Bank of Thailand signed an agreement with the US Treasury Department a number of years ago obliging all Thai banks to comply with FATCA, so no bank - and certainly no branch - can opt out of that, no matter what the manager wants; they must make every new customer fill out the US paperwork to determine whether they meet the definition of a "US person".

 

They also misunderstand what's involved in having "US persons" as customers - the reporting is all done electronically at the HQ level, with essentially no work required by the branch.

And the form is quite simple and very familiar to all Americans.

 

 

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

No Im not mixing topics Im explaining whats really been going on. The OP Topic claimed its Americans and its not, its all foreigners and depending on the Bank they are throwing in their own twists.

 

It is more difficult for americans as other nationalities at some banks. Some banks refuse americans but accept others. The banks don't want the hassle with the US. Of course it's also more difficult for foreigners to open accounts than locals. But americans are again a special case.

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

 

It is more difficult for americans as other nationalities at some banks. Some banks refuse americans but accept others. The banks don't want the hassle with the US. Of course it's also more difficult for foreigners to open accounts than locals. But americans are again a special case.

Again, no Thai Bank as such (meaning entire Bank corporation) has a policy of refusing Americans.

 

This is being done on an ad hoc basis by some branches  or even just some bank staff because they are unwilling or afraid  to deal with a new (simple, short, and filled out by the customer) form.

 

Try a different bank or call the bank HQ number and have them explain it to the staff.

[Robert Paulson]

Our tax dollars hard at work, making life more difficult to impossible for us and also for others. 

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

including protection under DTA if your no longer a citizen

 

That's flat out wrong. Dual taxation treaties still apply even if you are not a US citizen. As explained I am not a US citizen but still benefit from the DTA between US and Thailand.

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

The claim that banks are reject all or only americans is bs and I already explained whats happening there.

 

There was no such claim. The claim is that *some* banks prefer to not have US customers. Don't twist the words, the nuance is important.

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

Thailand has agreed to follow and participate in CRS although they have not signed on as a member.

Thailand has not signed CRS and is not participating in CRS. Thailand is participating in other information exchange programs.

 

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

you mention that Thailand did not sign the OECD agreement - then why have they been on the OECD committees for many years already?

 

I didn't say any such thing. BTW Thailand also is not a OECD member but they of course collaborate and might join.

 

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

IN addition, Thailand is listed as a member country too.  JUst wondering where you found that Thailand does not have to share the banking information of foreign citizens?

 

I also didn't claim that! In fact I explicitly said the opposite that Thailand is sharing information of foreign citizens with other countries.

[foreverlomsak]

22 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

Sorry, I cannot answer the direct question, but some/most(?) banks now have a limit on the number of accounts that a foreigner can have.

Slight departure from the topic but similar type of problem.

Bangkok Bank, I have 2 active accounts with them 1 is about 20 years old the other about 2 years.

When I loaded the mobile banking app about 6 months ago the newer account went in with no problem and appears to work satisfactorily, but it would not accept the older account, have tried many times personally and failed, took the phone to my local branch and they failed. Tried the branch again last week, to be told that Thai's can have numerous accounts linked in the app but foreigners can only have one account, said she would try to get HQ to authorize the addition of the second.

Don't have that issue with SCB, but they loaded their app on the phone and installed the accounts (1 existing and 2 new).