3 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

John Spencer chairman of urban warfare studies at West Point described Israels achievement as unprecedented, especially given the complex combat conditions.

A lot of people would agree that Hamas themselves are responsible for more Palestian deaths than anyone else.

 

 

 

 

The article she refers to was written by Ophir Falk, Netanyahu's foreign policy advisor.

 

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

In an unprecedented legal development, senior Australian politicians, including Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, have been referred to the International Criminal Court (ICC) for investigation into whether they have aided or supported Israel’s actions in Gaza.

 

The referral, made by the Sydney law firm Birchgrove Legal on behalf of their clients, is the first time any serving Australian political leaders have been formally referred to the ICC for investigation.

 

The referral asserts that Albanese, Foreign Minister Penny Wong, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton and other members of the government have violated the Rome Statute, the 1998 treaty that established the ICC to investigate and prosecute allegations of war crimes, genocide and crimes against humanity.

 

https://theconversation.com/why-have-anthony-albanese-and-other-politicians-been-referred-to-the-icc-over-the-gaza-war-225079

 

As the article says, it's unlikely to go anywhere, but this is still a positive development, this type of exposure is very welcome.

28 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The article she refers to was written by Ophir Falk, Netanyahu's foreign policy advisor.

 

She was quoting the Wall Street Journal! 

19 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

She was quoting the Wall Street Journal! 

 

Yes indeed, the opinion piece Israel Will Defeat Hamas in Rafah, published in the Wall Street Journal on March 14 2024, was written by Netanyahu's top foreign policy advisor Ophir Falk.

1 hour ago, Wobblybob said:

You may have condemned Hamas but whether you were sincere about it is very suspect, you do nothing but berate Israel and accept the terrorists 'facts and figures' in this war. It is safe to say that Hamas is being manipulative with the figures that they are giving their gullible followers. They are conning you and you chose to believe these monsters that are capable of the worst and disgusting crimes unbelievable to mankind! 

 

   Its often like " I do condemn Hamas for the attack, but I can understand why they did it "

"Hamas shouldn't have carried out the Oct 7 th attack , but what else could they have done "

"I do condemn the Hamas terrorists , just as I condemn the Israeli terrorists"

 

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Its often like " I do condemn Hamas for the attack, but I can understand why they did it "

"Hamas shouldn't have carried out the Oct 7 th attack , but what else could they have done "

"I do condemn the Hamas terrorists , just as I condemn the Israeli terrorists"

 

Sentence 2 is BS, the others I will gladly own. Understanding why things happen is NOT condoning them. I consider the ability to rationalize why some things happen to be a marker of my intelligence. Conversely, an inability to understand why things happen is generally intellectual dishonesty , assuming one is literate.

7 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The article she refers to was written by Ophir Falk, Netanyahu's foreign policy advisor.

 

The article she referred to was quoting John Spencer who is not an actor, an economist or even a politician but a real life urban warfare expert who knows far more than those and us. Here's some of his professional opinions on the war against Hamas.

 

Hospitals Are Protected Under International Law. But They Cannot be 'Off Limits' | Opinion

That is also why international law specifically requires that hospitals not be used to shield military objectives from attack, for example, if a hospital is used for "interference, direct or indirect, in military operations, such as the use of a hospital as a shelter for able-bodied combatants or fugitives, as an arms or ammunition store, as a military observation post, or as a center for liaison with combat forces," per the U.S. Department of Defense law of war manual. Such uses can lead to a hospital losing its protected status.

Because of all the special protections surrounding hospitals, they have alarmingly and increasingly been used for military purposes by combatants such as Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and especially Hamas, who historically do not follow the laws of war and intentionally shield themselves behind protected objects and groups.

https://www.newsweek.com/hospitals-are-protected-under-international-law-they-cannot-off-limits-opinion-1871757

 

I Have Delivered Aid in War Zones. They Were the Missions We Feared Most | Opinion

Soldiers always have the right of self-defense. That must never be taken from them. In urban areas, especially those still active war zones, the threats are everywhere. In the case of Gaza where heavy fighting continues, threats can be snipers, rocket propelled grenades. We know Hamas dressed in civilian clothes have been walking up to armored vehicles to place magnet bombs and fire into the crowd during aid distribution. Much of combat is about seeking control, and one of the reasons delivering aid in a combat zone is so hectic is because of how control can be lost in a millisecond.

https://www.newsweek.com/i-have-delivered-aid-war-zones-they-were-missions-we-feared-most-opinion-1876536

 

Israel Implemented More Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties Than Any Other Nation in History | Opinion

No military fighting an entrenched enemy in dense urban terrain in an area barely twice the size of Washington D.C. can avoid all civilian casualties. Reports of over 25,000 Palestinians killed, be they civilians or Hamas, have made headlines. But Israel has taken more measures to avoid needless civilian harm than virtually any other nation that's fought an urban war.

In fact, as someone who has served two tours in Iraq and studied urban warfare for over a decade, Israel has taken precautionary measures even the United States did not do during its recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613

 

Memo to the 'Experts': Stop Comparing Israel's War in Gaza to Anything. It Has No Precedent | Opinion

Yet while the use of historical analogy may be tempting for armchair pundits, in the case of Israel's current war, the comparisons are often poorly cited, the data used inaccurate, and crucial context left out. Given the scale and context of an enemy purposely entrenched in densely populated urban areas, as well as the presence of tunnels, hostages, rockets, attackers that follow the laws of war while defenders purposely do not, and proximity between the frontlines and the home front, there is basically no historical comparison for this war.

Hamas' strategy is to use Palestinian civilians as human shields, because their goal is not to defeat Israel's military or to hold terrain; it is far more sinister and medieval—to use the death and suffering of Palestinian civilians to rally international support to their cause and demand that Israel halt their war.

https://www.newsweek.com/memo-experts-stop-comparing-israels-war-gaza-anything-it-has-no-precedent-opinion-1868891

 

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Sentence 2 is BS, the others I will gladly own. Understanding why things happen is NOT condoning them. I consider the ability to rationalize why some things happen to be a marker of my intelligence. Conversely, an inability to understand why things happen is generally intellectual dishonesty , assuming one is literate.

Personally I will never understand why demented monsters would set fire to whole families whilst still in their houses or sexually mutilate innocent women, but that is the difference between you and "literate" thinking homo sapiens, vile! 

There is no excuses for their behavior even you seem to think that there is! 

11 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

The posters that keep saying that they are neutral and unbiased and see both sides of the dispute are the most one sided biased posters on the site .

   Extremists who keep claiming to be moderates 

The reason the posters, like me, say we are "neutral and unbiased and see both sides" mainly post anti-Israeli information is to try to compensate for the almost totally anti-Palestinian information posters, like you, who are solidly pro-Israeli and anti-Palistinian. We know there are two sides to this story and want to make sure readers get to read about both sides.

8 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Its often like " I do condemn Hamas for the attack, but I can understand why they did it "

"Hamas shouldn't have carried out the Oct 7 th attack , but what else could they have done "

"I do condemn the Hamas terrorists , just as I condemn the Israeli terrorists"

 

I agree with all the quotes you have cited above... 

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

The reason the posters, like me, say we are "neutral and unbiased and see both sides" mainly post anti-Israeli information is to try to compensate for the almost totally anti-Palestinian information posters, like you, who are solidly pro-Israeli and anti-Palistinian. We know there are two sides to this story and want to make sure readers get to read about both sides.

 

    You claim that I  am Anti Palestinian , in the same way that you are Anti Israeli .

I do not have ab agenda against all Palestinians World wide , I do not attack supporters of Palestine , I don't boycott Palestinian made goods  , I do not attack pro Palestinian politicians .

    I just want the Palestinians in Israel to live peacefully side by side with Jews .

Although I support Zionism and Israel, I am not anti Palestinian .

Many of the pro Palestinian group are anti sematic Jew haters , who just use the Palestinian cause to further their anti Semitic opinion .

    Your hatred of Israel is not the same as my disagreeing with Palestinians violence 

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The article she referred to was quoting John Spencer who is not an actor, an economist or even a politician but a real life urban warfare expert who knows far more than those and us. Here's some of his professional opinions on the war against Hamas.

 

Hospitals Are Protected Under International Law. But They Cannot be 'Off Limits' | Opinion

That is also why international law specifically requires that hospitals not be used to shield military objectives from attack, for example, if a hospital is used for "interference, direct or indirect, in military operations, such as the use of a hospital as a shelter for able-bodied combatants or fugitives, as an arms or ammunition store, as a military observation post, or as a center for liaison with combat forces," per the U.S. Department of Defense law of war manual. Such uses can lead to a hospital losing its protected status.

Because of all the special protections surrounding hospitals, they have alarmingly and increasingly been used for military purposes by combatants such as Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and especially Hamas, who historically do not follow the laws of war and intentionally shield themselves behind protected objects and groups.

https://www.newsweek.com/hospitals-are-protected-under-international-law-they-cannot-off-limits-opinion-1871757

 

I Have Delivered Aid in War Zones. They Were the Missions We Feared Most | Opinion

Soldiers always have the right of self-defense. That must never be taken from them. In urban areas, especially those still active war zones, the threats are everywhere. In the case of Gaza where heavy fighting continues, threats can be snipers, rocket propelled grenades. We know Hamas dressed in civilian clothes have been walking up to armored vehicles to place magnet bombs and fire into the crowd during aid distribution. Much of combat is about seeking control, and one of the reasons delivering aid in a combat zone is so hectic is because of how control can be lost in a millisecond.

https://www.newsweek.com/i-have-delivered-aid-war-zones-they-were-missions-we-feared-most-opinion-1876536

 

Israel Implemented More Measures to Prevent Civilian Casualties Than Any Other Nation in History | Opinion

No military fighting an entrenched enemy in dense urban terrain in an area barely twice the size of Washington D.C. can avoid all civilian casualties. Reports of over 25,000 Palestinians killed, be they civilians or Hamas, have made headlines. But Israel has taken more measures to avoid needless civilian harm than virtually any other nation that's fought an urban war.

In fact, as someone who has served two tours in Iraq and studied urban warfare for over a decade, Israel has taken precautionary measures even the United States did not do during its recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-implemented-more-measures-prevent-civilian-casualties-any-other-nation-history-opinion-1865613

 

Memo to the 'Experts': Stop Comparing Israel's War in Gaza to Anything. It Has No Precedent | Opinion

Yet while the use of historical analogy may be tempting for armchair pundits, in the case of Israel's current war, the comparisons are often poorly cited, the data used inaccurate, and crucial context left out. Given the scale and context of an enemy purposely entrenched in densely populated urban areas, as well as the presence of tunnels, hostages, rockets, attackers that follow the laws of war while defenders purposely do not, and proximity between the frontlines and the home front, there is basically no historical comparison for this war.

Hamas' strategy is to use Palestinian civilians as human shields, because their goal is not to defeat Israel's military or to hold terrain; it is far more sinister and medieval—to use the death and suffering of Palestinian civilians to rally international support to their cause and demand that Israel halt their war.

https://www.newsweek.com/memo-experts-stop-comparing-israels-war-gaza-anything-it-has-no-precedent-opinion-1868891

 

 

International law requires resolution by litigation, not military action. The only roadblock here is that Israel is one of several bad faith players who refuse to recognize the ICC. Spencer is just a warmonger.

 

meanwhile:

 

According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, at least 95 journalists and media workers have been killed since the Israel-Hamas war began on Oct. 7, including two Israeli journalists, three Lebanese journalists, and 90 Palestinian journalists.

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/national-press-club-statement-on-the-ongoing-targeting-of-journalists-for-their-coverage-of-the-israel-hamas-war-302093375.html

Attacks, arrests, threats, censorship: The high risks of reporting the Israel-Gaza war

 

https://cpj.org/2024/03/attacks-arrests-threats-censorship-the-high-risks-of-reporting-the-israel-hamas-war/

2 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You have been gaslighted, nothing you say anymore makes sense. Hamas started this, they kidnapped babies but it fails to resonate in some posters heads. They are in Gaza to secure the release of the hostages and to find the culprits that committed these atrocious crimes. Wake up and stop believing terrorists! 

 

 

  It runs a bit deeper than simply believing the terrorists 

There is the line of thought that Jews control the World , enslave non Jews , are responsible for all wars and that the World will be free once Jews no longer exist and the Palestinians are freeing the World from Jewish control .

   That ideology needs to be addressed, rather than simply believing what hammas say 

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  It runs a bit deeper than simply believing the terrorists 

There is the line of thought that Jews control the World , enslave non Jews , are responsible for all wars and that the World will be free once Jews no longer exist and the Palestinians are freeing the World from Jewish control .

   That ideology needs to be addressed, rather than simply believing what hammas say 

 

Of course no link to these patently outrageous claims which aren't even about the war. .

More journalists killed in three months of Gaza war than in all of World War II or Vietnam War.

Al Jazeera journalist Hamza Dahdouh and fellow journalist Mustafa Thuraya were killed in an Israeli air strike on Dahdouh’s car on Sunday.

 

The Palestinian Journalists Syndicate has documented the killing of 102 journalists and the injury of 71 others by Israeli forces since hostilities began in October.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2024/1/8/what-international-solidarity-exists-with-journalists-under-israeli-attack

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

International law requires resolution by litigation, not military action. The only roadblock here is that Israel is one of several bad faith players who refuse to recognize the ICC. Spencer is just a warmonger.

 

meanwhile:

 

According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, at least 95 journalists and media workers have been killed since the Israel-Hamas war began on Oct. 7, including two Israeli journalists, three Lebanese journalists, and 90 Palestinian journalists.

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/national-press-club-statement-on-the-ongoing-targeting-of-journalists-for-their-coverage-of-the-israel-hamas-war-302093375.html

No,he's an expert actually. 

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

No,he's an expert actually. 

 

expert propagandist and warmonger.

13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

    You claim that I  am Anti Palestinian , in the same way that you are Anti Israeli .

I do not have ab agenda against all Palestinians World wide , I do not attack supporters of Palestine , I don't boycott Palestinian made goods  , I do not attack pro Palestinian politicians .

    I just want the Palestinians in Israel to live peacefully side by side with Jews .

Although I support Zionism and Israel, I am not anti Palestinian .

Many of the pro Palestinian group are anti sematic Jew haters , who just use the Palestinian cause to further their anti Semitic opinion .

    Your hatred of Israel is not the same as my disagreeing with Palestinians violence 

You are mixing up terms in your statement above. I will respond using what I consider valid terms:

I am not anti-Isreali. I am anti-Jews-who-want-to-control-all-of-the-land-and-drive-out-or-subdue-the-Palestinians (I can't use the term I used to use anymore).
I also want the Palestinians and Jews to live side-by-side in a one-state solution. If that is not possible (which seems so), I would support a two-state solution.
I cannot use the term you use above anymore, but, to repeat myself, I am not anti-Isreali. I am anti-Jews-who-want-to-control-all-of-the-land-and-drive-out-or-subdue-the-Palestinians.

Many of the pro-Israeli groups are anti-Arab Palestinian haters who just use the Israeli cause to further their anti-Palestinian opinion .
I do not hate Israel. I hate Jews-who-want-to-control-all-of-the-land-and-drive-out-or-subdue-the-Palestinians, and I do disagree with BOTH Palestinian and Israeli violence.

30 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   

Many of the pro Palestinian group are anti sematic Jew haters , who just use the Palestinian cause to further their anti Semitic opinion .

    

 

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

 

Many of the pro-Israeli groups are anti-Arab Palestinian haters who just use the Israeli cause to further their anti-Palestinian opinion .
 

 

  You have taken my words and just changed the  words Israel/Palestinian  around

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  It runs a bit deeper than simply believing the terrorists 

There is the line of thought that Jews control the World , enslave non Jews , are responsible for all wars and that the World will be free once Jews no longer exist and the Palestinians are freeing the World from Jewish control .

   That ideology needs to be addressed, rather than simply believing what hammas say 

I've never heard of such a thing! I have heard that before WWII, the Nazis were worried that the Jews were trying to gain economic control over Germany, and that was part of their justification for their treatment of the German Jews. But I certainly haven't heard of anything today like you describe above. As I have said, I think the basis of the conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis right now is a struggle to control the land. Other Arab states are sympathetic to the Palestinians, and this "war" may indeed widen if it continues.

19 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

expert propagandist and warmonger.

Nope, you can stamp you feet up and down as much as you want, that still does not make him what you'd prefer him to be 😔

2 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

  You have taken my words and just changed the  words Israel/Palestinian  around

Yes! I did exactly that to show how our beliefs are opposite.

Just now, WDSmart said:

I've never heard of such a thing! I have heard that before WWII, the Nazis were worried that the Jews were trying to gain economic control over Germany, and that was part of their justification for their treatment of the German Jews. But I certainly haven't heard of anything today like you describe above. As I have said, I think the basis of the conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis right now is a struggle to control the land. Other Arab states are sympathetic to the Palestinians, and this "war" may indeed widen if it continues.

 

   I am amazed you are haven't heard about anti Semitic ideology . you seem to have a similar viewpoint .

   Other Arabs states are not really interested into going to war in the name of the Palestinian cause and your hope that the conflict may develop into a Arab/Israeli war is desperation, desperately looking for a way that Israel loses 

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes! I did exactly that to show how our beliefs are opposite.

 

   Well thanks for that , and there was me thinking that we both had the same opinion and beliefs .

Now I know, thanks for pointing that out 

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Well thanks for that , and there was me thinking that we both had the same opinion and beliefs .

Now I know, thanks for pointing that out 

I think we have only one opinion that is the same: the wish for a peaceful one-state solution.

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I think we have only one opinion that is the same: the wish for a peaceful one-state solution.

 

  That can happened once Gazans have been moved off the land and Jews are in the majority .

Then we can have our one state Jewish majority land of Israel

That is the solution  

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  That can happened once Gazans have been moved off the land and Jews are in the majority .

Then we can have our one state Jewish majority land of Israel

That is the solution  

Yes, that is the solution desired by the Israelis-who-want-to-control-all-of-the-land-and-drive-out-or-subdue-the-Palestinians, but not by, I hope, the rest of the world. I am now in favor of a two-state solution.

22 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, that is the solution desired by the Israelis-who-want-to-control-all-of-the-land-and-drive-out-or-subdue-the-Palestinians, but not by, I hope, the rest of the world. I am now in favor of a two-state solution.

 

   So you are in favour of a one state solution as long as there a Palestinian majority , or  two state solution from where the Palestinians can attack Israel and try to get a one state solution with Palestinians being the majority .

  So, back to the "from the river to the sea", and no existence of Israel 

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   So you are in favour of a one state solution as long as there a Palestinian majority , or  two state solution from where the Palestinians can attack Israel and try to get a one state solution with Palestinians being the majority .

  So, back to the "from the river to the sea", and no existence of Israel 

 

The settler movement are in favour of the river to the sea. Or the nile to the euphrates. Do you support that?