Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Nick Carter icp]

42 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

A permanent ceasefire, withdrawal of all IDF troops from Gaza, an exchange of all hostages and prisoners, and a commitment to sit down and create an agreement for a two-state solution would be parity.

 

27 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

And Hamas is not going to release the hostages without a ceasefire. And I believe the longer the ceasefire, the more hostages will be released, but not ALL the hostages will be released until there is a PERMANENT ceasefire and withdrawal of the IDF.

 

13 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

An immediate release of all hostages should be conditional on an exchange for all prisoners, and the ceasefire should be permanent and include a withdrawal of all IDF troops.

 

  You have made your point , there is no need to keep repeating your point .

Posting the same thing in three posts in the space of 30 minutes 

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

 

  You have made your point , there is no need to keep repeating your point .

Posting the same thing in three posts in the space of 30 minutes 

They are well worth repeating. I think when all this is done, you'll find out my recommendations will be the ones that are finally enacted.

[rattlesnake]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Can you link to where he is refusing a ceasefire as part of the current hostage deal talks in Qatar?

 

I did not say he would refuse a ceasefire during the talks, I said that he would go into Rafah no matter what, as he repeatedly claims so himself.

 

Again, he reiterated on Sunday that Israel "will enter Rafah and achieve total victory".

 

Or from 4 days ago here:

 

We’ll enter Rafah without US support if we have to, Netanyahu tells Blinken

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/well-enter-rafah-without-us-support-if-we-have-to-netanyahu-tells-blinken-asajrfma

 

(Reminder that this is a fanatical, messianic leader who believes he is fulfilling divine scripture.)

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

They are well worth repeating. I think when all this is done, you'll find out my recommendations will be the ones that are finally enacted.

 

   Why is it worth repeating ?

Do you think that if you keep saying the same thing over and over again, then other people will then agree with you ?

   You just need to say it once , its not a competition to see what can say the same thing the most times .

   You don't convince people by keeping on saying the same thing over and over again 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

 

I did not say he would refuse a ceasefire during the talks, I said that he would go into Rafah no matter what, as he repeatedly claims so himself.

 

Again, he reiterated on Sunday that Israel "will enter Rafah and achieve total victory".

 

Or from 4 days ago here:

 

We’ll enter Rafah without US support if we have to, Netanyahu tells Blinken

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/well-enter-rafah-without-us-support-if-we-have-to-netanyahu-tells-blinken-asajrfma

 

(Reminder that this is a fanatical, messianic leader who believes he is fulfilling divine scripture.)

You said:

 

Netanyahu will not respect his part of any deal on a ceasefire and openly says it. From 24 March:

 

That's why I responded with not true, as it is not true.............

 

Rafah has nothing to do with the hostage and prisoner exchange talks in Qatar. A 6 week ceasefire was on the table although apparently that's just been refused by Hamas again since the UN resolutions

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I did not say he would refuse a ceasefire during the talks, I said that he would go into Rafah no matter what, as he repeatedly claims so himself.

 

Again, he reiterated on Sunday that Israel "will enter Rafah and achieve total victory".

 

Or from 4 days ago here:

 

We’ll enter Rafah without US support if we have to, Netanyahu tells Blinken

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/well-enter-rafah-without-us-support-if-we-have-to-netanyahu-tells-blinken-asajrfma

 

(Reminder that this is a fanatical, messianic leader who believes he is fulfilling divine scripture.)

Yes! Netanyahu is likely to agree to a ceasefire in exchange for hostages, and then after he gets all the hostages, he proceeds to go into Rafah. 

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why is it worth repeating ?

Do you think that if you keep saying the same thing over and over again, then other people will then agree with you ?

   You just need to say it once , its not a competition to see what can say the same thing the most times .

   You don't convince people by keeping on saying the same thing over and over again 

 

It is worth repeating because other proposal versions, like the current UN one, are continually put up. They contain different conditions. Repeating these is like tapping you on the shoulder and reminding you that these are the conditions that need to be in the proposal, not any new combination of conditions. 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

It is worth repeating because other proposal versions, like the current UN one, are continually put up. They contain different conditions. Repeating these is like tapping you on the shoulder and reminding you that these are the conditions that need to be in the proposal, not any new combination of conditions. 

 

   I will be honest with you , your proposal wouldn't be acceptable to either side .

You may as well get on a live internet call with USA, Hamas , Netanyahu and the ICJ and get a guitar out and give them a rendition of John Lennons "Imagine" . 

[rattlesnake]

27 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You said:

 

Netanyahu will not respect his part of any deal on a ceasefire and openly says it. From 24 March:

 

That's why I responded with not true, as it is not true.............

 

Rafah has nothing to do with the hostage and prisoner exchange talks in Qatar. A 6 week ceasefire was on the table although apparently that's just been refused by Hamas again since the UN resolutions

 

Going into Rafah means no ceasefire. And even if they do put it on hold for 6 weeks, that doesn't change anything.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Going into Rafah means no ceasefire. And even if they do put it on hold for 6 weeks, that doesn't change anything.

And even if they do put it on hold for 6 weeks, that doesn't change anything.

 

Yes it changes everything, it makes your statement untrue as there will be a ceasefire. They do not call it putting it on hold, they call it a ceasefire. The UN resolution ceasefire was till the end of Ramadan, around two weeks. However still a ceasefire. 

[Ben Zioner]

41 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

(Reminder that this is a fanatical, messianic leader who believes he is fulfilling divine scripture.)

If that's what you call defending your people...

[rattlesnake]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

And even if they do put it on hold for 6 weeks, that doesn't change anything.

 

Yes it changes everything, it makes your statement untrue as there will be a ceasefire. They do not call it putting it on hold, they call it a ceasefire

 

A 6-week ceasefire means fire resumes after 6 weeks.

 

We don't know whether there will be a ceasefire or not, what we do know is that part of the proposed deal includes a 6-week ceasefire and that Netabyahu repeadely stated he will go into Rafah no matter what, even if he loses the support of the US.


 

[WDSmart]

22 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   I will be honest with you , your proposal wouldn't be acceptable to either side .

You may as well get on a live internet call with USA, Hamas , Netanyahu and the ICJ and get a guitar out and give them a rendition of John Lennons "Imagine" . 

Yes, at first, a really good proposal is not acceptable to either side because it requires both sides to compromise on their demands. That's what negotiations are all about.

I do play the guitar, but I just looked up the chords to John Lennon's "Imagine," and they are too complex for me. The three most accomplished pieces I play are "California Dreaming," "Rebel, Rebel," and "Third-Rate Romance," all of which might be appropriate when presenting my proposal. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

A 6-week ceasefire means fire resumes after 6 weeks.

 

We don't know whether there will be a ceasefire or not, what we do know is that part of the proposed deal includes a 6-week ceasefire and that Netabyahu repeadely stated he will go into Rafah no matter what, even if he loses the support of the US.


 

A 6-week ceasefire means fire resumes after 6 weeks. yes if the second stage of the deal broke down, which was an extension for more hostages and prisoners to be released. The first stage and first 6 weeks was for 40 hostages, other stages and ceasefires were then to be discussed.

 

What is it you are not getting about this, you were wrong, Israel is very open to a ceasefire. It is also committed to finishing the job

[WDSmart]

5 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

47 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

(Reminder that this is a fanatical, messianic leader who believes he is fulfilling divine scripture.)

If that's what you call defending your people...

I would also call him Netanyahu. There is a simple name for people like him, but I've been forbidden to use it anymore on this forum. 

[JustAnotherHun]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

A 6-week ceasefire means fire resumes after 6 weeks.

Wrong. A 6-week ceasefire means the guarantee there will be no attacks for 6 weeks. It says nothing about the time after.

If the terrorists would set free their hostages and would surrender, there would be no need to start the war again.

But as we know, they prefere to spit on their own people and hide behind them.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Because Bibi has made it clear he will not respect a ceasefire and will go into Rafah no matter what.

Unbelievable! 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Unbelievable! 

Why? Do you want Hamas to survive and attack again? Do you want the hostages to stay ion the tunnels in Rafah?

[ikke1959]

It is very easy.. Israel is already in war for thousands of years.. They had to rob Palestine after they left Egypt in the time of Mozes and have never stopped. After the 2nd World War always Israel was the agressor by not accepting the mandates about Western Jordanian part and built illegal houses there. They are backup by the Western countries, as the Jews needed a own state after the war, but without any decent transforming the Palestine country they think they can all they want. Anyway it is a shame what they are doing and I am happy the UN at least accewpted the latest motion against Israel, but Israel will go on and commit war crimes.; Hamas I see more as defenders of the rights of the original people, but are being blamed and named in the media as Terrorists...

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Wrong. A 6-week ceasefire means the guarantee there will be no attacks for 6 weeks. It says nothing about the time after.

If the terrorists would set free their hostages and would surrender, there would be no need to start the war again.

But as we know, they prefere to spit on their own people and hide behind them.

Wrong. After six weeks and the return of all hostages, the need to start (continue with) the war again would be twofold: revenge and total control of Gaza.

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why? Do you want Hamas to survive and attack again? Do you want the hostages to stay ion the tunnels in Rafah?

I want Hamas to survive. I want all Palestinians to survive. And, yes, I want Israelis to survive also. 

[rattlesnake]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

A 6-week ceasefire means fire resumes after 6 weeks. yes if the second stage of the deal broke down, which was an extension for more hostages and prisoners to be released. The first stage and first 6 weeks was for 40 hostages, other stages and ceasefires were then to be discussed.

 

What is it you are not getting about this, you were wrong, Israel is very open to a ceasefire. It is also committed to finishing the job

 

It is precisely this notion of "finishing the job" which is at the heart of the issue. When Bibi says "we will enter Rafah and achieve total victory", given the character, his ideology and track record, the intent is clear.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I want Hamas to survive. I want all Palestinians to survive. And, yes, I want Israelis to survive also. 

Then you are a fool................🙄

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

It is precisely this notion of "finishing the job" which is at the heart of the issue. When Bibi says "we will enter Rafah and achieve total victory", given the character, his ideology and track record, the intent is clear.

 

   That was stated on October 8 th 

That Hamas would be wiped put and they wouldn't be able to attack Israel again . 

That is the long term strategy 

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

It is precisely this notion of "finishing the job" which is at the heart of the issue. When Bibi says "we will enter Rafah and achieve total victory", given the character, his ideology and track record, the intent is clear.

No its not, its your lie that they refused a ceasefire, stop the deflection

[Bkk Brian]

The Road to Ceasefire Leads Through the Rafah Offensive | Opinion

The military strategy for Hamas' October 7 attack was to create the largest scale of atrocity possible and survive Israel's counterattack. Then, having survived, it intended to build up for many more October 7 attacks, all with the aim of achieving its grand strategic goal: the destruction of Israel and the death of the Jewish people.

Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas political leader, stated as much, saying, "Israel is a country that has no place on our land. We must remove that country ... the Al-Aqsa Flood is just the first time, and there will be a second, third, and fourth. Will we pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it."

Hamas's hope is that repeated attacks like October 7 will eventually break the will of the Israeli population. To do that, Hamas would need to survive the war.

https://www.newsweek.com/road-ceasefire-leads-through-rafah-offensive-opinion-1878137

[rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No its not, its your lie that they refused a ceasefire, stop the deflection

 

I suggest toning down the aggressiveness in your rhetoric.

 

I did not say they refused a ceasefire, I said Netanyahu said he would not respect any ceasefire agreed upon as he repeatedly claimed he was going into Rafah no matter what.

[rattlesnake]

9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That was stated on October 8 th 

That Hamas would be wiped put and they wouldn't be able to attack Israel again . 

That is the long term strategy 

 

The long-term strategy has been crystal clear for a long time.

[rattlesnake]

47 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

If that's what you call defending your people...

 

It's what I call a political leader who references the Isaiah prophecy and the Biblical story of Amalek, in which God tells King Saul to annihilate the enemies of Israel, including children, babies, animals, men, women.

[WDSmart]

23 minutes ago, transam said:

Then you are a fool................🙄

It's better to be a fool than a ravager.