Durability of Chinese EVs

[JBChiangRai]

9 hours ago, FlorC said:

Yes , some EMF at home but not high voltage , high current switching like in an EV , very close to your body.

And the world is flat and let’s not forget EMF from 5G phones causes Covid !!!

[Gweiloman]

On 3/9/2024 at 7:42 AM, Jake72 said:

Not that I have to explain myself to you and your cultish snarky attitude, but I drove a model 3 in Bangkok, however I got rid of it after moving up country as it wasn't practical anymore.

 

What's your experience?

I have a 60 kWh BEV and a 30 kWh PHEV. I haven’t had the opportunity to make a very long distance trip in my BEV yet but have already clocked up 35,000 kms in my PHEV including at least 4 long round distance trips in excess of 2000 kms. Bearing in mind that the real world EV range of my PHEV is only about 160-180 km, I obviously couldn’t do those trips on battery power alone. However the bulk of the distance travelled was done on battery power and I personally didn’t find it a PITA to charge alone the way as CSS are PLENTIFUL and working 100% of the time that I stopped to charge. Apart from one instance at Lomsak PEA Volta, I didn’t have to wait to charge. At this stop, PEA had kindly constructed an air conditioned waiting room with beverages as well.

 

So your claim of poor charging infrastructure is either hearsay or a while ago and not a reflection of today’s situation.

[Gweiloman]

22 hours ago, YaiJung said:

After a lifetime of disappointment with chinese products, I am very hesitant to buy a chinese ev, in fact I won't.  Just got burned at mr diy the other day.  Buy chinese, buy twice...or even three times.  Nothing against the chinese personally, but they aren't exactly known for putting quality first.  Imo, they never, ever pass any value on to the customer.  Every single corner will have been cut and any "deal" you think you might be getting is sure to show its true colors down the road, with disappointment, regret, annoyance, and in the case of cars maybe even safety issues.  Chinese business practice = if the customer isn't pissed off, kicking and screaming, feeling like they got screwed, then they(the chinese) didn't do their job and left money on the table. 

 

Also, really have to question the logic behind putting huge glass sunroofs on any car, much less an ev in a tropical country like Thailand.  Are they cool on hot days?  Is there any Thai person who wants to get sun in their face while they are driving?  The thought of sitting in traffic in bright sunlight with my head heating up while getting cold air blasted on me sounds absolutely nauseating.  Noticed the Teslas are the same.  Imagine the aircon uses a lot of battery to fight against the blasting midday heat in Thailand.  Can't be good for the range.  Not sure what they are thinking with this design other than add more gimmicky stuff to jack the price up.  

 

I'm looking forward to buying an ev, but it's still a few years away for me. 

All things are made to a particular price point and for a specific market segment. China is the manufacturing capital of the world and this wouldn’t have been possible if ALL their products are inferior. If you buy a branded clone at a fraction of the price, you will of course not be getting the same quality as the original. That’s just common sense. 

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, UWEB said:

You may google German Diesel Scandal or Dieselgate. And it's far from over.

Volkswagen does not count. They are the Fiat of Germany. Always have been. Always will be. 

[ozimoron]

32 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Volkswagen does not count. They are the Fiat of Germany. Always have been. Always will be. 

 

That's an insult to Morris.

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

That's an insult to Morris.

The very essence of Chinese mediocrity. Looks nice on the outside. Not much inside. 

[RocketDog]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:28 AM, Kinnock said:

I don't have an electric car, but I do have experience of an electric scooter that has put me off an EV.

 

While it's convenient, quiet and fun, it's range has reduced significantly over one year of ownership.

 

It has a lithium battery and a smart charger, and at first an overnight charge would give me about 30km range (claimed range was 40km).

 

After 12 months the range has dropped to about 15km.  And the battery behaviour has also changed .... it shows full charge for about 14km, then suddenly drops into the red and stops.

 

It may take longer for an electric car to have the same issue, but my experience with other battery devices such as phones and cameras makes me believe that current battery tech has longevity issues.

I don't know about their electric

cars but I know for sure Chinese batteries suck out loud.

 

As an electronic engineer starting with vacuum tubes I've been waiting all my career for the promised 'perfect battery technology '.

 

I'm retired now and still waiting.

 

FWIW, I want no part of electric cars at this point in their technology curve. I've worked with electronics and computers long enough to cure me of being an early adopter.

[RocketDog]

On 3/9/2024 at 9:39 AM, YaiJung said:

After a lifetime of disappointment with chinese products, I am very hesitant to buy a chinese ev, in fact I won't.  Just got burned at mr diy the other day.  Buy chinese, buy twice...or even three times.  Nothing against the chinese personally, but they aren't exactly known for putting quality first.  Imo, they never, ever pass any value on to the customer.  Every single corner will have been cut and any "deal" you think you might be getting is sure to show its true colors down the road, with disappointment, regret, annoyance, and in the case of cars maybe even safety issues.  Chinese business practice = if the customer isn't pissed off, kicking and screaming, feeling like they got screwed, then they(the chinese) didn't do their job and left money on the table. 

 

Also, really have to question the logic behind putting huge glass sunroofs on any car, much less an ev in a tropical country like Thailand.  Are they cool on hot days?  Is there any Thai person who wants to get sun in their face while they are driving?  The thought of sitting in traffic in bright sunlight with my head heating up while getting cold air blasted on me sounds absolutely nauseating.  Noticed the Teslas are the same.  Imagine the aircon uses a lot of battery to fight against the blasting midday heat in Thailand.  Can't be good for the range.  Not sure what they are thinking with this design other than add more gimmicky stuff to jack the price up.  

 

I'm looking forward to buying an ev, but it's still a few years away for me. 

I regret that I could only give you one trophy icon.

You nailed it right on the head.

 

I agree with all you said except the last sentence. I'll do my best to never own an EV and with the time I've got left I will probably succeed!

[RocketDog]

22 hours ago, HighPriority said:

Because the actual owners of Chinese ev think they are good quality and are better priced and often better spec’d than European/yank ev.

They also seem to be readily available in Thailand.

Almost everything readily available in Thailand is made in China.

 

That's how I have formed my opinion of chinese product quality.

 

I have no reason to believe that they make cars any better than their other junk.

 

It's called direct experience.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Almost everything readily available in Thailand is made in China.

 

That's how I have formed my opinion of chinese product quality.

 

I have no reason to believe that they make cars any better than their other junk.

 

It's called direct experience.

That’s not my experience, their electronics are first rate (Electronic Engineering Degree held here).

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:46 PM, BenStark said:

No we don't, it is common knowledge already that the batteries don't last 17 years, much much less actually, and cost about half the value of the car to replace.

 

Even the manufacturers admit that, only you don't accept it

Not sure why you'd say something that's so demonstrably false. It's not common knowledge at all, in fact it's quite untrue.

 

Quote

Today, most EV batteries have a life expectancy of 15 to 20 years within the car – and a second life beyond.

 

What happens to old electric car batteries?

 

As for what the manufacturers say, well here's a quote from Nissan executive Nic Thomas.

 

Quote

It’s clear that most EV batteries will outlast the vehicles they were installed in ...

[...]

“At the end of the vehicle’s life—15 or 20 years down the road—you take the battery out of the car, and it’s still healthy ..."

 

Electric Car Batteries Lasting Longer Than Predicted Delays Recycling Programs

[Bandersnatch]

52 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I have no reason to believe that they make cars any better than their other junk.

 

It's called direct experience.

 

Hoist with his own petard

 

You have no "direct experience" of Chinese EVs

 

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

I don't know about their electric

cars but I know for sure Chinese batteries suck out loud.

 

You are so right. That’s why all the premium EV brands such as Tesla, BMW, MB etc use non Chinese made batteries that has a range of 1,000 km and a charging time of just 5 minutes. Oh, wait…

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

I regret that I could only give you one trophy icon.

You nailed it right on the head.

 

I agree with all you said except the last sentence. I'll do my best to never own an EV and with the time I've got left I will probably succeed!

I’m sure Tesla, BYD, MG are really sad that you are never ever going to buy an EV. Huge impact on their bottom line, I’m sure.

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

Almost everything readily available in Thailand is made in China.

 

That's how I have formed my opinion of chinese product quality.

 

I have no reason to believe that they make cars any better than their other junk.

 

It's called direct experience.

Yet I’m almost certain that you own lots of Chinese junk, just like the majority of folks all over the world.

[Gweiloman]

To the OP @Maybole. By now, you would have heard many arguments for and against your relative to replace her 20 yo ICE with a new EV. On one side, you have the anti EVers, who don’t actually own an EV. They just hate EVs, without actually knowing why. Sprinkle this with a couple of China haters who hate China and everything Chinese, because their government and the media they follow tells them to.

 

On the other side, you have actual EV owners who also either still own or had previously owned ICEVs. None of them actually hate ICEVs. They just prefer EVs for its smooth and comfortable ride, performance, cheap cost of ownership, advanced technology in the vehicles etc. Not one would replace their EV for an ICEV; except for one dubious claimant of having driven a Tesla in BKK.

 

What it boils down to really is whether your relative considers the downsides of an EV as deal breakers. These are less range than an ICEV during long distance trips, longer “refuelling” times if required and access to home charging or not. There is also a fire risk; it’s a significantly lower risk than that of an ICEV but the consequences are much greater. To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a single EV fire in Thailand. One way of looking at this is comparing a Bkk - Chiang Mai trip by land or air. A road accident might land you in the hospital, an air accident will almost certainly land you in a cemetery. 
 

Would you recommend the positive knowledge and experience of actual owners or the doubts and misconceptions of ill informed posters without first hand knowledge. The choice is yours. You have asked the audience, 50/50 is by default and all you have left is to phone a friend. (I suggest @JBChiangRai, @Bandersnatch, @KhunLA, @Andrew Dwyer, @Pib as among those owners who knows what they are talking about. 

[BenStark]

29 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a single EV fire in Thailand.

 

Your knowledge conveniently lacks

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2023/04/09/the-ev-bus-caught-fire-when-the-roof-hit-the-bridge-beam/

 

https://thesun.my/motoring_news/warehouse-storing-ev-batteries-burns-down-BC11465675

 

https://blink-drive.com/index.php/2023/09/03/first-byd-atto-3-catches-fire-in-thailand-an-isolated-incident-or-a-wake-up-call/

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

Your knowledge conveniently lacks

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2023/04/09/the-ev-bus-caught-fire-when-the-roof-hit-the-bridge-beam/

 

https://thesun.my/motoring_news/warehouse-storing-ev-batteries-burns-down-BC11465675

 

https://blink-drive.com/index.php/2023/09/03/first-byd-atto-3-catches-fire-in-thailand-an-isolated-incident-or-a-wake-up-call/

 

 

Let’s start with the BYD Atto, there WAS NO FIRE. Educate yourself on what it was (fumes from leaky air conditioning).

 

There is no evidence the warehouse holding batteries was either (a) EV batteries or (b) was caused by a battery.

 

There have at time of writing been no Chinese EV fires

[Pib]

Also, regarding the bus and if the traction battery was located on the top of the bus, the fire resulted from the top of the  bus crashing into a bridge overhang beam.    When a vehicle crashes into things fires can start as electrical wiring, fuels, etc., can short, catch on fire.  

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

Also, regarding the bus and if the traction battery was located on the top of the bus, the fire resulted from the top of the  bus crashing into a bridge overhang beam.    When a vehicle crashes into things fires can start as electrical wiring, fuels, etc., can short, catch on fire.  

Nobody would build a bus with the traction battery on the roof.  They have to be placed as slow down as possible to keep the center of gravity low.

 

It sounds like an electrical fire, but nothing to do with the bus being an EV, more likely to be lighting wiring.

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Nobody would build a bus with the traction battery on the roof.  They have to be placed as slow down as possible to keep the center of gravity low.

 

It sounds like an electrical fire, but nothing to do with the bus being an EV, more likely to be lighting wiring.

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.evfiresafe.com/what-is-an-ev-battery#:~:text=In a passenger electric vehicle,rectangle or 'T" shape.&text=Commercial %26 public transport electric vehicles,the roof of the vehicle.

Quote

 

In a passenger electric vehicle, the battery pack is typically located along the floor pan of the vehicle, in a rectangle or 'T" shape.

 

Commercial & public transport electric vehicles may have multiple battery packs located at the front, rear, sides & even the roof of the vehicle.

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

17 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.evfiresafe.com/what-is-an-ev-battery#:~:text=In a passenger electric vehicle,rectangle or 'T" shape.&text=Commercial %26 public transport electric vehicles,the roof of the vehicle.

 

I stand corrected, and I am somewhat surprised.

[ExpatOilWorker]

9 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Let’s start with the BYD Atto, there WAS NO FIRE. Educate yourself on what it was (fumes from leaky air conditioning).

 

There is no evidence the warehouse holding batteries was either (a) EV batteries or (b) was caused by a battery.

 

There have at time of writing been no Chinese EV fires

Let's throw a school van in the dumpster fire 🔥. 

https://tpnnational.com/2020/10/02/two-school-buses-and-a-school-building-burst-into-flames-after-electric-bus-battery-explosion-at-international-school-in-bangkok/

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Let's throw a school van in the dumpster fire 🔥. 

https://tpnnational.com/2020/10/02/two-school-buses-and-a-school-building-burst-into-flames-after-electric-bus-battery-explosion-at-international-school-in-bangkok/

Story only 4 years old, couldn’t you find an older one?

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Let's throw a school van in the dumpster fire 🔥. 

https://tpnnational.com/2020/10/02/two-school-buses-and-a-school-building-burst-into-flames-after-electric-bus-battery-explosion-at-international-school-in-bangkok/

 

was it a DIY-bus or do you know any brand? was there an investigation of the cause? sorry, could no find any information... thank you.

[RocketDog]

13 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Yet I’m almost certain that you own lots of Chinese junk, just like the majority of folks all over the world.

Of course I do. If you live in Thailand so do you.

 

As I said, direct experience.

[Bandersnatch]

On 3/11/2024 at 7:19 AM, RocketDog said:

As I said, direct experience.

 

As I said 

 

On 3/10/2024 at 5:12 PM, Bandersnatch said:

You have no "direct experience" of Chinese EVs