Thai EV sales surge by 603% amid government incentives

[transam]

8 hours ago, Rimmer said:

Meanwhile in China 8 EVS combust daily, its a fad and a lot of people are going to get burnt, literally......

 

According to statistics from China's emergency management department, in the first quarter of 2023, an average of 8 EV caught fire every day, marking a 32% increase compared to previous periods.

 

 

Makes one wonder if assembly speed is the problem. China has fields of unsold EV's, suppose we will have to see what transpires here, as there will be a huge number on the roads dealing with   floods and Thai daily accidents, plus those who will electrocute themselves via the dodgy electrics here......

[mikebike]

44 minutes ago, lavender19 said:

Do they have anyone capable of fixing them here when the inevitable break down

What in particular, specific to an EV, do you think is difficult to repair? It is a MUCH simpler machine than an ICE vehicle.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 minutes ago, mikebike said:

In Aus you have no protectionist tariffs. A truly open market. China plays as fair as any other country. I am so happy we live in SEA, without western nanny govts telling me what I can buy and at what price.

I hear you about SEA and I agree. But laws against product dumping exist in most 1st world countries - including Australia. Product Dumping is when a country exports products to another country in bulk volumes, at less than the prices paid for that product in their home market (effectively at a loss). The reason they would do that, is to damage the local competitors and/or to drive them out of the market - and they then slowly increase their prices and get back their 'lost profits'. 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, mikebike said:

In Aus you have no protectionist tariffs. A truly open market. China plays as fair as any other country. I am so happy we live in SEA, without western nanny govts telling me what I can buy and at what price.

Absolute BS. If we had an open market in Australia, we would be able to buy low km secondhand cars from Japan, just like the Kiwis and Burmese do.

The car lobby in Australia blocks this, in the name of protecting new car sales. Helloo. We have not had car manufacturing in Australia since 2018.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

What in particular, specific to an EV, do you think is difficult to repair? It is a MUCH simpler machine than an ICE vehicle.

Yes and No.  The cost of replacing the battery and/or associated electronics is extremely high and complicated. EVs are not for me, but if I did have one, I would be extremely doubtful that Somchai at the local service place would get it done correctly and safely for a Chinese made cheapie EV.  However, when it comes to issue a Tesla that is another matter - I would be very confident it will be done correctly. 

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, mikebike said:

What in particular, specific to an EV, do you think is difficult to repair? It is a MUCH simpler machine than an ICE vehicle.

The electronics in an EV are far more complex than in an ICE, they have the job of controlling a lot of stored energy in KWh.

From what I gather, the reliability issues in Teslas are mainly down to electronics.

Maybe Crossy will be along to share his viewpoint on the skills of Thai electricians.

[dinsdale]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

We have or have had 4 BEV’s, I will never buy an ICE car again.

 

I enjoy the supercar like performance, the silence of the driving experience and waking up to a full tank of electrons.

 

It’s also a big plus knowing it’s between 10 and 140 times LESS LIKELY to catch fire than a legacy ICE car and much less likely to break down as it has 100 times less moving parts than an ICE car.

"it’s between 10 and 140 times LESS LIKELY to catch fire than a legacy ICE car and much less likely to break down as it has 100 times less moving parts than an ICE car."

 

So it's still likely to catch fire then. I would be hoping on the 140 times less rather than the 10 times less. Far better odds.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Makes one wonder if assembly speed is the problem. China has fields of unsold EV's, suppose we will have to see what transpires here, as there will be a huge number on the roads dealing with   floods and Thai daily accidents, plus those who will electrocute themselves via the dodgy electrics here......

China does not have fields of unsold EV’s, those reports have been debunked.  What China does have is fields of EV’s from hire companies who went bust after they got their rebates,

 

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yes and No.  The cost of replacing the battery and/or associated electronics is extremely high and complicated. EVs are not for me, but if I did have one, I would be extremely doubtful that Somchai at the local service place would get it done correctly and safely for a Chinese made cheapie EV.  However, when it comes to issue a Tesla that is another matter - I would be very confident it will be done correctly. 

 

Already service networks of third parties are starting to appear,  it won’t be long before Somchai will fix your EV like he repairs your washing machine motor.
 

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

The electronics in an EV are far more complex than in an ICE, they have the job of controlling a lot of stored energy in KWh.

From what I gather, the reliability issues in Teslas are mainly down to electronics.

Maybe Crossy will be along to share his viewpoint on the skills of Thai electricians.

The electronics in PHEV is far more complex than a BEV.

 

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

"it’s between 10 and 140 times LESS LIKELY to catch fire than a legacy ICE car and much less likely to break down as it has 100 times less moving parts than an ICE car."

 

So it's still likely to catch fire then. I would be hoping on the 140 times less rather than the 10 times less. Far better odds.

BEV’s are 10 times less likely to catch fire than an ICE and 140 times less likely to catch fire than a HEV/PHEV. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

13 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Already service networks of third parties are starting to appear,  it won’t be long before Somchai will fix your EV like he repairs your washing machine motor.

Not a chance - they are far more complicated than you think.  It is not just the components and the tools needed to remove and replace them, especially the battery, it is the programming of them and all other existing compnents.  Because of the way they are manufactured, with the battery within/attached to the frames, they are extremely expensive to repair. Tesla has done it 'right' but most others have just charged ahead with not enough thought to ongoing developments and repairs. 

[digger70]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:57 AM, Rimmer said:

Meanwhile in China 8 EVS combust daily, its a fad and a lot of people are going to get burnt, literally......

 

According to statistics from China's emergency management department, in the first quarter of 2023, an average of 8 EV caught fire every day, marking a 32% increase compared to previous periods.

 

 

Nice one hey ,So called Clean Power,  Very Dirty cleanup.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Not a chance - they are far more complicated than you think.  It is not just the components and the tools needed to remove and replace them, especially the battery, it is the programming of them and all other existing compnents.  Because of the way they are manufactured, with the battery within/attached to the frames, they are extremely expensive to repair. Tesla has done it 'right' but most others have just charged ahead with not enough thought to ongoing developments and repairs. 

It’s already happening, Gruber Motors in the US are already repairing batteries and Power Electronic Modules.  Tesla did NOT do it right, they say their battery packs are unrepairable, hence the growth in third party service networks.

 

MG on the other hand say if the battery fails you can just replace the faulty module.

 

MG got it right, Tesla got it wrong.

[Pib]

On 3/8/2024 at 10:07 AM, happysoul said:

It's amazing how many people take the EV road in Thailand despite having max chargers capacity of 11kWh. Or maybe I miss some information but to experience never found a charging rate above 11kWh. So for a small city car (around 50kWh), it's 4h to get close to full charge from empty battery. Not appealing when you know that chargers can go up to 120kWh.

A 3 phased home charger can go to 7kWh (not sure about that, higher like 11 or 22 ?), single at best is around 3-4kWh (almost sure about that). 

 

Interested in improving my knowlege so if something is wrong above, please correct me. I own an hybrid with a max charging rate of 3.6kWh so all charging stations are fine for me but always wondered if full EV could charge faster than an hybrid (due to the charger here in Thailand, not the car itself).

 

Next question is "will the grid hold when 30% of cars are electric ?"

 

Some incorrect info above.

 

There an many DC Fast Chargers (i.e., 25KW or higher...typically 50KW or higher) around Thailand...almost as many as AC commercial chargers (i.e. slow chargers typically 7 to 11KW).     With a DC Fast Charger you can typically charge to 100% in approx one hour.    See chart below reflecting commercial chargers as of Sep 2023 around Thailand.   More than enough for long trips. 

 

Typically a home EV wall charger is a "single phase"/32A/7KW charger.   That is the most common wall charger.   The portable charger (i.e., granny charger) that many new EV come to carry around in the EV  if desired are are typically single phase 2.2KW/10A chargers...plug right into any 16A home outlet....just like plugging-in a table lamp.   Takes a long time to charge with such a low power charger....that's why it nicknamed a "granny" charger.   

 

Now when you start talking 11KW and 22KW chargers that when "you must have three phase" power....and of course an EV that supports 3 phase charging....most do not. Most only support single phase AC charging....and almost all also support "DC Fast Charging."

 

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:51 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

In case you want to buy one maybe have a look at the following video - and maybe think again.

This is just one of many videos from people who are not so excited about EVs - and not just one sided. 

I wouldn't mind a Range Rover myself, but a bit above my price mark. 

Edited March 9 by jacko45k

[happysoul]

9 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Some incorrect info above.

 

There an many DC Fast Chargers (i.e., 25KW or higher...typically 50KW or higher) around Thailand...almost as many as AC commercial chargers (i.e. slow chargers typically 7 to 11KW).     With a DC Fast Charger you can typically charge to 100% in approx one hour.    See chart below reflecting commercial chargers as of Sep 2023 around Thailand.   More than enough for long trips. 

 

Typically a home EV wall charger is a "single phase"/32A/7KW charger.   That is the most common wall charger.   The portable charger (i.e., granny charger) that many new EV come to carry around in the EV  if desired are are typically single phase 2.2KW/10A chargers...plug right into any 16A home outlet....just like plugging-in a table lamp.   Takes a long time to charge with such a low power charger....that's why it nicknamed a "granny" charger.   

 

Now when you start talking 11KW and 22KW chargers that when "you must have three phase" power....and of course an EV that supports 3 phase charging....most do not. Most only support single phase AC charging....and almost all also support "DC Fast Charging."

 

 

 

 

Thanks for providing the table. Yes, just as many DC and AC, 356 vs 4806... and of 356, 316 are from PEA which are at PEA offices and therefore not convenient (offices are not the place you want to wait for, nothing to do there). And I bet the remaining 40 are mostly in BKK. So it's what I said, no infrastructure for long trips in EV. It's ok if you live in BKK or the few big cities that have a DC charging station.

[BaanOz]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:57 AM, Rimmer said:

Meanwhile in China 8 EVS combust daily, its a fad and a lot of people are going to get burnt, literally......

 

According to statistics from China's emergency management department, in the first quarter of 2023, an average of 8 EV caught fire every day, marking a 32% increase compared to previous periods.

 

 

Scare mongering with no mention of how many ice vehicle combust in comparison.
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/

[Cult of the Sun]

I took my radiation meter to a woman's tesla in a parking lot here in the US.  Let's just say EV drivers won't be having a lot of children..  ;and that is putting it mildly.

 

I do have 3 electric scooters and the solar system to keep them on the road for pretty much free; but the difference in radiation between an electric car and riding on an electric scooter (which I stand on 95% of the time) is huge.

 

Of course you've gotta have a camera on them bc these feminists get rabid about a grown single man having fun. 🤣

Edited March 10 by Cult of the Sun

[Rampant Rabbit]

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 3/8/2024 at 9:54 AM, flyingtlger said:

Yup, I purchased a Tesla and I regret it.

Next car I purchase will be a hybrid......

could you elaborate as to why? I think James May summed it  up pretty well for me, I certainly dont  hate them in fact acceleration and looks wise wise theyre "it," range no thanks, charging points need  millions as James  May mentioned and charging time still too  long.

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 3/8/2024 at 12:55 PM, edwinchester said:

Last June I sold my Triton and bought a Neta V. 3500 kms per month primarily for the school run was costing approx 8000 bht per month in the Triton. Cost for the NETA V has been between 1500 and 1700 bht using PEA off peak tariff. It gets charged up every night using the slow granny charger supplied by Neta. Really enjoying the EV experience so far and just waiting for a decent lectric pickup to appear in Thailand.

isnt  keeping them fully charged and "every night"  going to degrade your  battery faster?

Current  electric pick ups have VERY  low range when loaded up, checkout Ford F150 lightning range when towing etc

Edited March 10 by Rampant Rabbit

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:17 PM, JBChiangRai said:

We have or have had 4 BEV’s, I will never buy an ICE car again.

 

I enjoy the supercar like performance, the silence of the driving experience and waking up to a full tank of electrons.

 

It’s also a big plus knowing it’s between 10 and 140 times LESS LIKELY to catch fire than a legacy ICE car and much less likely to break down as it has 100 times less moving parts than an ICE car.

why have you  had 4?  or  is it a 4 adult  household? if you only keep them a  short  time how  will you  know their longer term reliability and manufacturers adherence to their guarantee?

Edited March 10 by Rampant Rabbit

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 3/8/2024 at 2:12 PM, JBChiangRai said:

Some condo management are more enlightened than others and have already installed charging points, but right now it’s very few.

 

You could charge it at one of the many fast DC Chargers around, but it’s probably going to take you 20-30 minutes and whilst it’s still around 2-3 times cheaper than petrol/diesel, it’s probably 1.7 to 2 times more expensive than your own charging point.

 

If I lived in a condo I would still have an EV but it’s too much hassle for many people.

 The  problem is  my wife  lives in a  condo of 270 rooms and its adjoining condo another 400 all the same developer (27 and 37  floors ) and these arent cheap condos, they start at 4 million for a  studio and up to 22million, they have installed 2 charging points.

Theyre going to need  to stick a  charging point in every car park space they have and thats going to be an incredible challenge from many angles.

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, happysoul said:

Thanks for providing the table. Yes, just as many DC and AC, 356 vs 4806... and of 356, 316 are from PEA which are at PEA offices and therefore not convenient (offices are not the place you want to wait for, nothing to do there). And I bet the remaining 40 are mostly in BKK. So it's what I said, no infrastructure for long trips in EV. It's ok if you live in BKK or the few big cities that have a DC charging station.

Take another look at the chart regarding the total number of DC Fast Chargers which is 356 ChadeMo chargers "plus" 3,540 CCS2 chargers for a total of 3,896 DC Fast Chargers.

 

You may wonder why so few ChadeMo DC Fast chargers?  Well, that's because ChadeMo is primarily used in Japan and not many EVs currently sold outside of Japan are sold with ChadeMo connectors but sold with CCS2 connectors.  ChadeMo is pretty much being relegated to a Japan-only charging connector disappearing from new EVs sold outside of Japan.  For "most" of hundreds of countries around the world like in Thailand the CCS2 DC Fast Connector is used.

 

Regrading PEA chargers, while many PEA office have chargers there are many PEA DC Fast Chargers along major roadways....I have frequently used PEA DC Fast Chargers.  And I prefer the PEA Fast Charger since the have a feature called AutoCharge which makes charging an EV very, very easy....just plug the EV into the DC Fast Charger and it will start charging automatically without the need to scan a QR code on the charger and press a variety of icons/buttons on the charger or charging app....pretty much just like charging your smartphone.  All you need is a AutoCharge compatible EV (like my BYD Atto 3), money in your PEA Wallet, and the Autocharge setting turned on in the PEA app.  Yes, as literally as easy as charging your smartphone.   And if a person doesn't like using PEA, then use DC Fast Chargers from other companies like PTT, EA Anywhere, Elexa by EGAT, etc...etc....etc....plenty for longer trips along major roadways.  

 

Chart showing various Charging Port Types.   And regarding the Tesla port/cable, in Thailand, EU, and some other other countries Tesla EVs are sold with a CCS2 charging port vs the standard Tesla port like used in the US.   Yea, CCS2 pretty much rules in terms of most widely being used in the many countries around planet Earth although in China the GB/T connector is primarily used and in North America the CCS1 connector (older cousin to the CCS2 connector) is primarily used. And like with many cables, there are adapters' you can buy and/or come with the EV which allows use different types of DC Fast Charging connectors.

 

 

[happysoul]

14 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Oh sorry, my bad, I completly missed the first column. Guess I hadn't drunk enough coffee yet !

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, happysoul said:

Thanks for providing the table. Yes, just as many DC and AC, 356 vs 4806... and of 356, 316 are from PEA which are at PEA offices and therefore not convenient (offices are not the place you want to wait for, nothing to do there). And I bet the remaining 40 are mostly in BKK. So it's what I said, no infrastructure for long trips in EV. It's ok if you live in BKK or the few big cities that have a DC charging station.

Many PEA chargers are on major routes, you will find fast DC chargers every 20-30km on highways 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

why have you  had 4?  or  is it a 4 adult  household? if you only keep them a  short  time how  will you  know their longer term reliability and manufacturers adherence to their guarantee?

My first BEV was a Porsche Taycan.

 

When the government announced they would pay 230k ฿ towards the purchase of the MG EP+ plus I ordered one for my daughter

 

My daughters got in to Payap University in Chiang Mai and I found I was commuting every fortnight and so I bought an MG4 to keep the miles off the Porsche.

 

I found I was favoring the MG4 almost every time over the Porsche (yes they really are that good) and so I decided to order the MG Cyberster (due H2 2024) and I sold the Porsche after exactly 2 years.  It was unreliable and had to be trailered back to Bangkok twice. The warranty expired at two years and the first service was due so I saved 120k THB on the third year insurance, the first service fee (I don’t know how much would be) and also it needed four new tires which was another 100k THB. 

 

The BYD Seal purchase was entirely unplanned. My brother-in-law was visiting in October from Australia, and asked me to take him to the BYD dealership to look at the cars. They wouldn’t let him sign for the test drive  because he had an Australian license. So I signed and drove half the route, and then he took over and drove the other half. We were both knocked out with the car and went back to the dealership where I ordered a new one and whilst I was ordering my new one he ordered one in Australia Online and paid the deposit.

 

My daughter decided she would prefer my MG4 as it’s a bright color, more sporty and has the dealer fitted body kit, so we sold the MG EP+ and got a great price for it, so don’t believe reports that they depreciate massively, they don’t.

 

None of our Chinese EV‘s have ever had a fault, it’s the first time in 40 years of buying new cars that I have not had to return a car to have something fixed. The German, EV, and prior to that German PHEV both had to be trailered back to the dealers for various reasons, so my experience is good for China and not so good for German.

Edited March 10 by JBChiangRai
Spelting

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

 The  problem is  my wife  lives in a  condo of 270 rooms and its adjoining condo another 400 all the same developer (27 and 37  floors ) and these arent cheap condos, they start at 4 million for a  studio and up to 22million, they have installed 2 charging points.

Theyre going to need  to stick a  charging point in every car park space they have and thats going to be an incredible challenge from many angles.

2 Charging points may be enough today, I am sure they will add more as needed.

 

In Chiang Rai we have a large condo building (The Condotel) it has 200 rooms and 50 parking spaces. Parking is tight but it seems mostly adequate.  If we work on a ratio of 4:1 Rooms:Car Spaces then I am going to assume you have 2 charging points for 170 cars or 85:1

 

Using 9,000km as the average annual mileage in Thailand (you will find that number on the Internet) that’s 25km per day, an EV will want to charge up every 10+ days.

 

So you have enough Charging Stations for 20 EV’s maybe 30 EV’s as lots will have charging facilities at the places of work.

 

Does the building have 20 EV’s yet? I think you will find they are currently underutilized.

Edited March 10 by JBChiangRai
Numerical error

[Eloquent pilgrim]

 

I wonder if this increase in EV sales is the reason that I am suddenly noticing some huge discounts on new ICE cars. I have never seen these discounts before in my 8 years here. I am on my second new Mazda, a CX3, and I only managed a meagre discount when buying it 4 years ago, it was the same with a new Mazda 3 before that. Now I can get 170,000 off a new Mazda CX30, and I think other manufacturers are offering similar discounts …. anyone have any insight or opinion about this ?

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

I wonder if this increase in EV sales is the reason that I am suddenly noticing some huge discounts on new ICE cars. I have never seen these discounts before in my 8 years here. I am on my second new Mazda, a CX3, and I only managed a meagre discount when buying it 4 years ago, it was the same with a new Mazda 3 before that. Now I can get 170,000 off a new Mazda CX30, and I think other manufacturers are offering similar discounts …. anyone have any insight or opinion about this ?

I have been posting for some months now that legacy car makers are very scared.

 

EV sales are accelerating enormously and they aren’t a separate market. you either drive an ICE car or you drive an EV, but you do not need both.

 

Companies like Toyota are spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) by saying firstly, they won’t take off and now their market share will never exceed 30%. Studies and off the wall websites are being funded to say EV are not the future, they catch fire (false), hydrogen is the future, water engines are the future, every imaginable thing to downplay EV’s and slow or prevent adoption.

 

Some legacy auto makers are openly discounting their vehicles, others, like Ford are doing it more subtly with adverts saying special prices, inquire at your dealership.

 

in summary, the future is EV, most legacy auto makers cannot make them at even close to the price the Chinese sell them at and they face going the way of the dinosaur.

[Lee65]

Sad to see EV owners waiting around at charging stations realizing their virtue signaling and foolish pride will not compensate for the inconvenience and time wasted.  And becoming aware of how silly they look.

 

As has been admitted in these forums, unless one has home charging - preferably solar - EVs make no sense.  And even then they're only for the early adopter crowd who are willing to risk writing off the value of their vehicle - or a subsequent unpredictable battery explosion - from even a minor event (collision, scrape the bottom of the car, run over a heavy object on the road) that calls into question the integrity of the battery.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

Sad to see EV owners waiting around at charging stations realizing their virtue signaling and foolish pride will not compensate for the inconvenience and time wasted.  And becoming aware of how silly they look.

 

As has been admitted in these forums, unless one has home charging - preferably solar - EVs make no sense.  And even then they're only for the early adopter crowd who are willing to risk writing off the value of their vehicle - or a subsequent unpredictable battery explosion - from even a minor event (collision, scrape the bottom of the car, run over a heavy object on the road) that calls into question the integrity of the battery.

Strange, I have never seen EV owners waiting around at Charging Stations, having a coffee? Sure. Coming aware of how silly they look? Absolutely not, most EV owners wouldn’t have a heartbeat’s hesitation in buying another EV.

 

You don’t need solar for an EV to make sense, even if I didn’t have a home Charging Station, I would still drive an EV.  I am not saying everyone would, because for sure it makes it a bit more difficult.