Trump says some undocumented immigrants are ‘not people’

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

If you could keep up with current events... you would have plenty of sources for the information that you seek so diligently... 555

 

 

There is more and more evidence that immigrants, regardless of legal status, are less likely to commit crimes than native‐born Americans. However, a substantial number of Americans still think that immigration increases crime. As more evidence builds over time, we can only hope that Americans respond by updating their opinions so that they fit the facts.

 

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

[Skipalongcassidy]

7 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Is there really a high amount of crime associated with illegal immigrants?

 

Edited March 18 by Skipalongcassidy

[Skipalongcassidy]

7 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Is there really a high amount of crime associated with illegal immigrants?

You have to ask... read even your biased news sources concerning human and drug trafficking... criminality is deep rooted in illegal immigration... it isn't just the number of illegal criminals and terrorists coming into the USA... it's the system that allows this to continue to go on that is the crime.

[Skipalongcassidy]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I did as he suggested and the first link produced this. I thought everyone actually knew this.

 

 

 

 

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

 

First paragraph from "data" collected in one state (Texas)... Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime. This stems largely from data constraints.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

First paragraph from "data" collected in one state (Texas)... Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime. This stems largely from data constraints.

 

Spring some data which supports your claim. I'll bet London to a brick that you can't. It's just a racist trope unless you can.

 

Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born Americans, studies find

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find

Edited March 18 by ozimoron

[Skipalongcassidy]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

 

There is more and more evidence that immigrants, regardless of legal status, are less likely to commit crimes than native‐born Americans. However, a substantial number of Americans still think that immigration increases crime. As more evidence builds over time, we can only hope that Americans respond by updating their opinions so that they fit the facts.

 

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-research-illegal-immigration-crime-0

Another blog that omits facts to fit their narrative... limited to Texas who admits that they don't have all of the data necessary to arrive at a conclusion...  we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime. This stems largely from data constraints.

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Spring some data which supports your claim. I'll bet London to a brick that you can't.

I just quoted from your source... if you could read it... it is after all the very first paragraph.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Skipalongcassidy said:

I just quoted from your source... if you could read it... it is after all the very first paragraph.

 

I won't run out of sources before you can produce a single one supporting your misinformation.

 

Undocumented Immigrants Are Half as Likely to Be Arrested for Violent Crimes as U.S.-Born Citizens

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/undocumented-immigrants-are-half-as-likely-to-be-arrested-for-violent-crimes-as-u-s-born-citizens/

[ozimoron]

No, immigrants aren't more likely to commit crimes than US-born, despite Trump's border speech

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/03/01/undocumented-immigrant-crime-rate-not-higher/72788637007/

[ozimoron]

Opponents of immigration often argue that immigrants drive up crime rates. But newly released research from Stanford economist Ran Abramitzky and his co-authors finds that hasn’t been the case in America for the last 140 years.

 

https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythical-tie-between-immigration-and-crime

[ozimoron]

 

5 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I just quoted from your source... if you could read it... it is after all the very first paragraph.

 

Are we done with this tripe yet?

 

Undocumented immigrants far less likely to commit crimes in U.S. than citizens

 

https://news.wisc.edu/undocumented-immigrants-far-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-in-u-s-than-citizens/

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

No, immigrants aren't more likely to commit crimes than US-born, despite Trump's border speech

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/03/01/undocumented-immigrant-crime-rate-not-higher/72788637007/

OK enough... you keep posting sources that use the term "more likely"... this is not about "equity crime" as the liberal left likes to claim... the fact is that if there were no illegals to factor into the equation there would be fewer crimes being committed... use your charts and graphs... add up all the crimes committed by every group... get a total... THEN subtract out the crime committed by illegal aliens... IS THAT NUMBER NOT SMALLER???  Plus all your equity crime statistics do not even factor in the big crimes caused by illegal immigration... the trafficking of humans and drugs.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

OK enough... you keep posting sources that use the term "more likely"... this is not about "equity crime" as the liberal left likes to claim... the fact is that if there were no illegals to factor into the equation there would be fewer crimes being committed... use your charts and graphs... add up all the crimes committed by every group... get a total... THEN subtract out the crime committed by illegal aliens... IS THAT NUMBER NOT SMALLER???  Plus all your equity crime statistics do not even factor in the big crimes caused by illegal immigration... the trafficking of humans and drugs.

 

Nope, it means that immigrants are better citizens than native born Americans - if it means anything at all.

[Skipalongcassidy]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Nope, it means that immigrants are better citizens than native born Americans - if it means anything at all.

What???  

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

I think most people would consider the propensity to commit crime would be a reasonable measure as to whether a particular demographic are better citizens than another and this is especially true when we know that people in worse socioeconomic circumstances commit more crime than the rich. Ergo, it's reasonable to conclude that immigrants make better citizens than the native born population.

 

 

Still can't do or accept the math... yeah nah

[ozimoron]

Just now, Skipalongcassidy said:

This just in... Furious resident in AOC's district says migrants turning neighborhood into 'epicenter of crime, prostitution'... as if it weren't already according to your data analysis.

 

You forgot to mention that the "furious resident" is a republican candidate.

[Skipalongcassidy]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

You forgot to mention that the "furious resident" is a republican candidate.

There you go lying again...

[ozimoron]

Just now, Skipalongcassidy said:

Still can't do or accept the math... yeah nah

 

What math? It's like the argument that if a foreigner has a car accident with a local then it's their fault because if they weren't in the country then the accident wouldn't have happened. That's precisely your argument

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

And no surprises from you on defending criminals

I’m not defending any criminals.

 

I’m calling out the dehumanization of immigrants.

 

Not the same thing, but nice try, have another go.

[Skipalongcassidy]

32 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

What math? It's like the argument that if a foreigner has a car accident with a local then it's their fault because if they weren't in the country then the accident wouldn't have happened. That's precisely your argument

Not really... but what you said is true in the context that the accident would not have happened with that particular individual as you so simplified it... it's not about whose fault it is... the number of "accidents" or in the case of illegal immigration, the number of crimes would be reduced... it doesn't matter if native born are committing crimes as well... that's another deflection.

[ozimoron]

21 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Not really... but what you said is true in the context that the accident would not have happened with that particular individual as you so simplified it... it's not about whose fault it is... the number of "accidents" or in the case of illegal immigration, the number of crimes would be reduced... it doesn't matter if native born are committing crimes as well... that's another deflection.

 

You flat out contested another poster's contention that immigrants committed less crimes and won't back that up. Hardly a deflection.

 

while I'm at it, here's the link to your "furious resident" you won't provide but called me a liar over.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/furious-resident-aoc-district-says-migrants-turning-neighborhood-epicenter-crime-prostitution

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Those excusing Trump’s dehumanizing of immigrants perhaps don’t think we can all remember his ‘poisoning the blood’ remarks. 
 

He’s not going to calm down, their will be more hate mongering to come and yes, his excuses now will excuse him again.

 

He’s mouthing what they want to hear.

 

 

Edited March 18 by Chomper Higgot

[ozimoron]

Trump is just rephrasing his previous racist talking points and repeating them.

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Nope, it means that immigrants are better citizens than native born Americans - if it means anything at all.

Any crime committed by an illegal is too much. I don't need a stupid graph to justify crimes committed by an illegal. they shouldn't be here....period.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Any crime committed by an illegal is too much. I don't need a stupid graph to justify crimes committed by an illegal. they shouldn't be here....period.

 

I agree. Do you support jailing those who create the pull factor by employing them?

 

btw, I was only refuting a false imputation that illegal immigrants committed more crimes than the denizens.

Edited March 19 by ozimoron

[Jingthing]

Saying people are "not people" is quite strange, but we've come to expect strange things from Trump.

Of course all people are people. Even Trump.

On the other hand all people are also all animals (mammals). 

Some people are so violent that calling them animals is not really so objectionable.

But Trump is trying to demonize ALL migrants with his hateful rhetoric and that is not fair though it will serve to fire up his rabid base of cult followers.

Edited March 19 by Jingthing

[EVENKEEL]

16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I agree. Do you support jailing those who create the pull factor by employing them?

 

btw, I was only refuting a false imputation that illegal immigrants committed more crimes than the denizens.

And which agency would this potential employer call to verify the legal status of a potential new hire. Sort of like fighting crime by jailing people who buy a car not realizing it was stolen. Instead of jailing the car thieves we'll jail the guy who thought he was getting a good deal.

[thesetat]

On 3/18/2024 at 4:44 AM, Social Media said:

Trump's rhetoric took a dehumanizing turn as he suggested that some individuals accused of crimes are "not people" in his opinion

Biden fans will love this. So easy to make it into more than it is. Already the news has twisted it to mean all illegals entering the country. Rather than what it most likely means is all those that commited crimes in the US already. It was only recently that some illegals did some very bad crimes that most would place them in a not normal person category. Have your fun twisting this. I think it will not affect those who actually have brains and sees the underlying tone for what it is. Trump will beat Biden if he does not become a criminal himself with some of the stupid charges still waiting their queue to go to court over. 

[earlinclaifornia]

17 hours ago, Dolf said:

Trump winning nearly every poll

 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/

YouGov has on 3/15 Trump up by two but Biden is up 5 over convicted Trump. racetowh.com

[newnative]

On 3/18/2024 at 6:32 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

What he actually said... “I don’t know if you call them people,” he said at a rally near Dayton, Ohio. “In some cases they’re not people, in my opinion. But I’m not allowed to say that because the radical left says that’s a terrible thing to say.”

 

He was referring to the high concentration of criminals associated with illegal immigrants.

Which is also a lie.  More crime, including violent crime, is committed by legal Americans than illegal immigrants on a percentage basis. From one study:

The study found that undocumented immigrants had substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, U.S.-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes.