Buying a 2nd hand car and converting to LPG

[JustAnotherFarang]

Im interested in purchasing a Toyota Camry or a nice Honda Sedan with the intention of converting it to lpg to save on fuel consumption.  The models Ive been looking at are around 2009 - 2011 and they all have 2.4 engines with relatively low mileage (130 to 195,000 km on the clock). 

 

I dont change cars often - my Vigo, which I will sell,  has been with me for over 15 years. At the moment I dont drive too far - maybe 10-20 km per day but every 2 weeks I like to visit the coastline around 300 km there and back but I do intend to travel more.  Does it make economical sense to add a lpg system to one of these older cars or am I inviting trouble by messing with things I dont quite comprehend.  Can someone point out the perils and the pitfalls

 

Appreciate your advice

 

JAF

[Korat Kiwi]

I think you may find quite a few 'converted' cars are already out there, so no doubt it can be done. 

 

BIL has a 2.4 camry on lpg.  Nice car and smooth to drive... Just wish he'd dump the oversized muffler/exhaust system he has on it.  Too bloody loud. 

 

As for economy?  Well he's a bit tight so I'd say it's better than petrol ie cheaper to run.  As long as you've got lpg refill stations in your area. 

[NoDisplayName]

If you're happy with what you have, Vigo is available in dual fuel (gas/CNG) model, first came out in 2012.  Our CNG Champ with 400K still runs fine.

 

Not sure it would make sense to convert an older car when used factory made vehicles are available.  Seems like messing with stuff that already works just causes more problems.  And with your low daily mileage, breakeven could be years in the future.

 

Don't forget the additional 500-baht annual inspection fee for compressed fuel vehicles.  Can take several hours if you can find a convenient location.  You'll receive a three-page document with photos and red stamps that you must present within a limited time to have the annual safety inspection done.

[JustAnotherFarang]

42 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

If you're happy with what you have, Vigo is available in dual fuel (gas/CNG) model, first came out in 2012.  Our CNG Champ with 400K still runs fine.

 

Not sure it would make sense to convert an older car when used factory made vehicles are available.  Seems like messing with stuff that already works just causes more problems.  And with your low daily mileage, breakeven could be years in the future.

 

Don't forget the additional 500-baht annual inspection fee for compressed fuel vehicles.  Can take several hours if you can find a convenient location.  You'll receive a three-page document with photos and red stamps that you must present within a limited time to have the annual safety inspection done.

 

My vigo is a diesel, my lady doesnt like it anymore and it would be nice to drive something much more comfortable.

[JBChiangRai]

I have had 2 cars converted to LPG, first was a Vigo 3.0 diesel auto.  It blends diesel with LPG by revs, 100% diesel at tickover and 100% LPG from about 1,500rpm. It doubles the power of the engine spinning the back wheels at 40kmhr but it sounds like a tractor.

 

The second was a brand new Mitsubishi Pajero Sport 2.4 petrol manual.  We used it in our business for 5 years, I saved about 350,000 baht on petrol in that period but the donut tank only had a range of about 120km.  It covered 130,000km.

 

LPG burns hotter, ideally the valve gear should be hardened specially, fortunately, we had no problems.

[HauptmannUK]

A Camry or Accord will run fine on LPG. You need a tank, vaporiser/regulator, gas injectors installed in the inlet manifold plus a filling port and the controller and flow solenoids fitting. The system, with a tank of LPG, will probably add 100kg+ to the weight of your vehicle and you will lose some luggage space.  The systems are generally reliable and you can switch over to petrol in the event of an LPG fault.

Normally the car will start on petrol and then automatically switch to gas. This keeps the petrol injection system lubricated.

LPG has lower specific energy than petrol so you will get somewhat lower mpg (10-15%) and the engine will develop slightly less power.

LPG burns hotter than petrol but any vehicle manufactured in the last 15 years or so will have hardened valve seats so there should be no problem with valve seat recession.

Much depends on your annual mileage. If you cover a lot of miles, say 15k+ km then you can make substantial fuel cost savings. At lower annual mileages it becomes hard to justify the installation costs and extra inspection and service costs.

[Peterphuket]

20 hours ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Im interested in purchasing a Toyota Camry or a nice Honda Sedan with the intention of converting it to lpg to save on fuel consumption.  The models Ive been looking at are around 2009 - 2011 and they all have 2.4 engines with relatively low mileage (130 to 195,000 km on the clock). 

 

I dont change cars often - my Vigo, which I will sell,  has been with me for over 15 years. At the moment I dont drive too far - maybe 10-20 km per day but every 2 weeks I like to visit the coastline around 300 km there and back but I do intend to travel more.  Does it make economical sense to add a lpg system to one of these older cars or am I inviting trouble by messing with things I dont quite comprehend.  Can someone point out the perils and the pitfalls

 

Appreciate your advice

 

JAF

Think twice before you make a decision for LPG, although I also drove with LPG in Europe about 50 years ago, that was not entirely without problems.

On the other hand, I also had my Ford Escape 6 cylinder converted to LPG, but that only caused bitter misery here in Thailand, I'll never do that again.

[brianthainess]

16 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

extra inspection and service costs.

Agree there 1,500b every year for a gas 'inspection' when all they do is open the bonnet pose for photos. IME. Also finding a place that is 'licensed' for gas inspection is not easy.  but it was cheap to run.

[brianthainess]

21 hours ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

around 2009 - 2011 and they all have 2.4 engines with relatively low mileage (130 to 195,000 km on the clock). 

That is a high kilometrage IMO, I got two cars one is 2013 16,000k one is 2014 17,000k. just saying.

[JustAnotherFarang]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

That is a high kilometrage IMO, I got two cars one is 2013 16,000k one is 2014 17,000k. just saying.

if only you were selling one of them. I prefer the 2014 model 😉 

 

You are right, the kilometres are very high and the motors ive looked at with low kilometres often have several owners which suggests somethings amiss but we have a mechanic helping us so we think we will be okay

[brianthainess]

How much do you want to spend? I  have just seen many Nissan Almera on  one2car with low mileage. I only paid 195k for a 2013 Nissan leaf 16,000 klm 4 months ago. from a car tent in Chonburi. bit small for you maybe but city cars IME have less Ks on the clock. also think about what tank you want to fit Doughnut (fits where the spare wheel is) or big one in the boot.

[JustAnotherFarang]

I settled for a Toyota Camry 2.4v with 130,000 kilometres for 220,000 and will keep it as stock for now. 

 

Thanks to all for the info, much appreciated

 

JAF

[Captor]

On 3/19/2024 at 6:03 AM, Korat Kiwi said:

I think you may find quite a few 'converted' cars are already out there, so no doubt it can be done. 

 

BIL has a 2.4 camry on lpg.  Nice car and smooth to drive... Just wish he'd dump the oversized muffler/exhaust system he has on it.  Too bloody loud. 

 

As for economy?  Well he's a bit tight so I'd say it's better than petrol ie cheaper to run.  As long as you've got lpg refill stations in your area. 

And much better for the environmental. Much cleaner than benzine or diesel. I can recommend the brand Prins from Nedherland. More expensive but good quality. Otherwise there are systems from Italy, Hungary, India etc..

https://prinsthailand.com/

 

[JustAnotherFarang]

14 hours ago, Captor said:

And much better for the environmental. Much cleaner than benzine or diesel. I can recommend the brand Prins from Nedherland. More expensive but good quality. Otherwise there are systems from Italy, Hungary, India etc..

https://prinsthailand.com/

 

Interesting post as I was going to ask what system would people recommend.  The website you posted is in Thai but Im not to sure if they can help with my Toyota being 2009 model.  I also couldnt see any info about price so I will let my gf take a look at it as she is thai.

 

The only other place I have come across so far that offers this service is this place:-

 

https://www.facebook.com/bigasth/

 

It looks like a quality installation place and the price isnt too bad approx 40,000 baht, the local thai mechanic quoted a price of around 30,000 baht but I dont know what equipment they would use.  I will welcome any views, opinioons or insights

 

Cheers

 

JAF

[DaRoadrunner]

LPG may appear cheaper up front, but not so cheap when it has damaged your valves.

[Unclernie]

If you are driving between 30 to 100 Km a day, get the lowest price electric model from BYD or Ora. You won’t regret the purchase, and get to enjoy a quality car and it will last a lifetime 

[Captor]

On 3/21/2024 at 8:50 AM, JustAnotherFarang said:

Interesting post as I was going to ask what system would people recommend.  The website you posted is in Thai but Im not to sure if they can help with my Toyota being 2009 model.  I also couldnt see any info about price so I will let my gf take a look at it as she is thai.

 

The only other place I have come across so far that offers this service is this place:-

 

https://www.facebook.com/bigasth/

 

It looks like a quality installation place and the price isnt too bad approx 40,000 baht, the local thai mechanic quoted a price of around 30,000 baht but I dont know what equipment they would use.  I will welcome any views, opinioons or insights

 

Cheers

 

JAF

I did a lot or research about 15 years ago and ended up with Prins. That time it was the best brand. Also used in Europe a lot. Don´t believe in what they are saying here about burning walves etc etc. If that shoult happen then there is something wrong with the equipment. And not forget to drive with Benzine every fourth or fifth tank in order to grease the engine. And preferable with the highest octane you can find. Higher octane means more lead and that means better grease. But your FB page looks good as well. Be sure they are mounting an European equipment. They have probably different brands same as the Prins garage had that time. Better pay more and get good quality. One more thing. You must change the filter as saying in the manual. Many thais try to save money on that and in the end they get problem. That is not were you want to save money. Good luck!

[JustAnotherFarang]

16 hours ago, Captor said:

I did a lot or research about 15 years ago and ended up with Prins. That time it was the best brand. Also used in Europe a lot. Don´t believe in what they are saying here about burning walves etc etc. If that shoult happen then there is something wrong with the equipment. And not forget to drive with Benzine every fourth or fifth tank in order to grease the engine. And preferable with the highest octane you can find. Higher octane means more lead and that means better grease. But your FB page looks good as well. Be sure they are mounting an European equipment. They have probably different brands same as the Prins garage had that time. Better pay more and get good quality. One more thing. You must change the filter as saying in the manual. Many thais try to save money on that and in the end they get problem. That is not were you want to save money. Good luck!

thank you for the great advice - much appreciated, not to sure what filter you are referring too though

[Lacessit]

On 3/19/2024 at 4:32 PM, NoDisplayName said:

If you're happy with what you have, Vigo is available in dual fuel (gas/CNG) model, first came out in 2012.  Our CNG Champ with 400K still runs fine.

 

Not sure it would make sense to convert an older car when used factory made vehicles are available.  Seems like messing with stuff that already works just causes more problems.  And with your low daily mileage, breakeven could be years in the future.

 

Don't forget the additional 500-baht annual inspection fee for compressed fuel vehicles.  Can take several hours if you can find a convenient location.  You'll receive a three-page document with photos and red stamps that you must present within a limited time to have the annual safety inspection done.

The 500 baht fee applies to CNG cylinders, which store gas at up to 25,000 psi. I don't think it applies to LPG cylinders, which only require inspection at ten year intervals, as they store LPG at 2500 psi.

[NoDisplayName]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The 500 baht fee applies to CNG cylinders, which store gas at up to 25,000 psi. I don't think it applies to LPG cylinders, which only require inspection at ten year intervals, as they store LPG at 2500 psi.

 

I did not know that.

CNG cars need gas cylinder inspection annually, LPG cars every 10 years.