Fears of discrimination in Thailand despite looming same sex marriage bill

[webfact]

 

The bill is likely to become law soon, but activists and those from the LGBTQ community say more work needs to be done.

Bangkok, Thailand – Thanadech Jandee is thrilled that Thailand’s marriage equality bill, allowing same-sex couples to marry, is moving closer to becoming law.

 

Thanadech, who was born biologically female and had gender reassignment surgery to identify as male last year, lives with his girlfriend and her son from a previous relationship.

 

“I want the equal marriage law to be passed. It will make my family complete like any other family of men and women,” the 34-year-old Grab delivery driver in Bangkok told Al Jazeera.

 

But along with many LGBTQ activists, Thanadech worries about the bill’s terminology.

 

Activists say using “parents” and “mother and father” in legal terms will affirm those who identify as LGBTQ on equal terms with other couples.

 

But efforts to get the wording into the bill have so far been unsuccessful.

 

By Tommy Walker

Activists have been campaigning for years for a change in the law [Lillian Suwanrumpha/AFP]

 

Full story: AL JAZEERA 2024-04-08

 

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[KhunLA]

More fear mongering.   Gays have been tolerated/accepted in TH way more and longer than most countries.   Getting married is just another step of realization, and a way for the ignorant folks to finally take the blinders off.  Live & let live 

 

Like GOD, gays always have been here, and always will be.  Just accept it.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

They can all shove that BS up their ****   They (I use they/them to cover all variations) claimed a desire for equality under marriagelaws and that is justified, with resultant property rights after death, taxation deductions and rights, and other 'equality' issues under the Laws.  But I hope the Thailand Govt does not fsll into the same traps as the Western Govts did and cave into their constant demands for 'more and more equality' which has resulted in a man claiming to be a woman because he is wearing a woman's clothes, and children being medical changed for life. Certainly in the West, much more than in Thailand, there needed to be a balance taken against the old school belief that 'they' were to be treated like lepers - but that is not needed in Thailand where they are generally treated equally in Thai society.  Give them and they equality under Laws in a 'personal union' (marriage) - but nothing more and nothing less.  

Edited April 8 by TroubleandGrumpy

[OneMoreFarang]

31 minutes ago, webfact said:

Activists say using “parents” and “mother and father” in legal terms will affirm those who identify as LGBTQ on equal terms with other couples.

 

But efforts to get the wording into the bill have so far been unsuccessful.

Same sex couples are not the same as father and mother = parents.

Why don't we keep the definition of existing words?

Call them a gay couple or a female couple or whatever. They can't be both parents of the same child. 

[connda]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

The bill is likely to become law soon, but activists and those from the LGBTQ community say more work needs to be done.

Thailand is the most LGBTQ+++ friendly country in the world.  The problem is that in this day and age, those who believe they are "discriminated against" want 100% acceptance from everybody.  It will never happen nor is that attitude realistic. 

How many LGBTQ+++ discriminate (and dislike) people who are not LGBTQ+++?  The answer - Some.  And there will always be "some." 
And how many non-LGBTQ+++ discriminate (and dislike) LGBTQ+++? The answer - Some.  And there will always be "some."
 

Just like I'd like 100% acceptance that I'm non-Thai and I want 100% of the Thai people to not discriminate against me.  Unrealistic.  There always will be some.

The fact that a same-sex marriage law is passed at all is the equivalent to Womens' suffage (when women obtained the equal rights to men to vote).  It's not a perfect world, but instead of bemoaning the fact that not all of the people will accept anything new all of the time - try celebrating the accomplishment of equality when it happens.  It's a milestone.  Be happy.

Now - in that vain, perhaps its also time to grant foreign men married to Thai women the same rights as as foreign women married to Thai men.  Now there is discrimination in all of its discriminatory ugliness which is still accepted by Thais.
Foreign women married to Thai men:  A valued core of a Thai nuclear family.
Foreign men married to Thai women:  Just visiting for a year and not valued by Thailand at all.

So LGBTQ+++ in Thailand  Get married legally.  Enjoy you new rights and equality.  Be happy.

 

 

Edited April 8 by connda

[brianthainess]

They may make it legal, and that will be about adoption, inheritance etc. 

But I don't believe for one minute it will me a marriage conducted at an Amphur with a marriage certificate. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

14 minutes ago, connda said:

Thailand is the most LGBTQ+++ friendly country in the world.  The problem is that in this day and age, those who believe they are "discriminated against" want 100% acceptance from everybody.  It will never happen nor is that attitude realistic. 

How many LGBTQ+++ discriminate (and dislike) people who are not LGBTQ+++?  The answer - Some.  And there will always be "some." 
And how many non-LGBTQ+++ discriminate (and dislike) LGBTQ+++? The answer - Some.  And there will always be "some."

Now - in that vain, perhaps its also time to grant foreign men married to Thai women the same rights as as foreign women married to Thai men.  Now there is discrimination in all of its discriminatory ugliness which is still accepted by Thais.
Foreign women married to Thai men:  A value core of a Thai nuclear family.
Foreign men married to Thai women:  Just visiting for a year and not valued by Thailand at all.

I would state with 99.99% certainty that there is a far larger percentage of the 'they/them' that dislike non-theys. They call us CIS and it is used in a derogatory and insulting manner by most the 'they'. 

 

Excellent idea - but more likely that they would remove the rights of an Expat women married to a Thai.

[ikke1959]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

They can all shove that BS up their ****   They (I use they/them to cover all variations) claimed a desire for equality under marriagelaws and that is justified, with resultant property rights after death, taxation deductions and rights, and other 'equality' issues under the Laws.  But I hope the Thailand Govt does not fsll into the same traps as the Western Govts did and cave into their constant demands for 'more and more equality' which has resulted in a man claiming to be a woman because he is wearing a woman's clothes, and children being medical changed for life. Certainly in the West, much more than in Thailand, there needed to be a balance taken against the old school belief that 'they' were to be treated like lepers - but that is not needed in Thailand where they are generally treated equally in Thai society.  Give them and they equality under Laws in a 'personal union' (marriage) - but nothing more and nothing less.  

Bit homo[phonic and you have no idea what you are talking about.....People like you should read and be informed first before making this kind of stupid comments

[Will B Good]

It staggers me that people care.....live and let live.

[mancub]

Jeez. just give them married legal rights but call them Parental Guardians.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

34 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Bit homo[phonic and you have no idea what you are talking about.....People like you should read and be informed first before making this kind of stupid comments

Your an ignorant person who has no idea.  I played golf most weeks for over 20 years with a gay guy - met his partner many times over dinner/beer, Both were good blokes - and he disliked the 'gay activists' a lot more than I do - and their views are very much what I am talking about and know a lot about. 

 

But people like yourself who see any comments from anyone that are not 'compliant' with the dogma being spewed out by the gay activists, label them as homophobic and thereby claim a win (virtue singalling).  I dont care if you are gay or not - I care about what sort of person you are and I will agree or disagree with your opinions impartially and fairly.  

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Your an ignorant person who has no idea.  I played golf most weeks for over 20 years with a gay guy - met his partner many times over dinner/beer, Both were good blokes - and he disliked the 'gay activists' a lot more than I do - and their views are very much what I am talking about and know a lot about. 

 

But people like yourself who see any comments from anyone that are not 'compliant' with the dogma being spewed out by the gay activists, label them as homophobic and thereby claim a win (virtue singalling).  I dont care if you are gay or not - I care about what sort of person you are and I will agree or disagree with your opinions impartially and fairly.  

That means nothing, if you dissent from the left in any way you must be destroyed. 

 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

That means nothing, if you dissent from the left in any way you must be destroyed. 

Yes indeed mate - they have the teenage girl mentality - never wrong despite obvious facts showing otherwise - they call that 'The Princess Bitchface Syndrome'.  It involves a lot of things and is a recognised mentqal disorder with a clear pathology of cognitive bias. Most teenage girls ghroew up and out of it - but many dont - and many young men have been infected too (we'll do anything for a roo**)

The Princess Bitchface Syndrome 2.0 by Michael Carr-Gregg - Penguin Books Australia

 

 

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

But efforts to get the wording into the bill have so far been unsuccessful.

As always it's in the fine print.

[mfd101]

3 hours ago, brianthainess said:

But I don't believe for one minute it will me a marriage conducted at an Amphur with a marriage certificate. 

Why wouldn't it include that? Though the 'marriage conducted at an Amphur' will likely be just filling out a form with 2 photos and signing the form before a witness behind the desk. (Which is how it was in Canberra for my b/f & me in 2013 (pre-gay marriage in Oz) for  a recognized partnership. Still valid & all we need in Oz.)

 

What's the problem?

[brianthainess]

4 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

 

 

What's the problem?

This is Thailand Not OZ is your husband Thai ? The Thai marriage at the Amphur is not just photos and sign a form,

English speaking witnesses are also needed, and a docs from your embassy to say you are free to marry and for your spouse also, translated into Thai.

Edited April 8 by brianthainess

[Photoguy21]

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Same sex couples are not the same as father and mother = parents.

Why don't we keep the definition of existing words?

Call them a gay couple or a female couple or whatever. They can't be both parents of the same child. 

That would be a very novel concept

[Jingthing]

In a family of two married adults and children both adults are parents. Period end of story.

[mfd101]

22 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

This is Thailand Not OZ is your husband Thai ? The Thai marriage at the Amphur is not just photos and sign a form,

English speaking witnesses are also needed, and a docs from your embassy to say you are free to marry and for your spouse also, translated into Thai.

Yes, my b/f is Thai. And Yes we had all of that - my divorce papers etc etc.

 

So? Why is all that going to be impossible for a gay couple at the local amphur? (Accepting that, here in south Surin, it may take a little time for the news to filter thru ... )

[placnx]

4 hours ago, connda said:

Thailand is the most LGBTQ+++ friendly country in the world.  The problem is that in this day and age, those who believe they are "discriminated against" want 100% acceptance from everybody.  It will never happen nor is that attitude realistic. 

How many LGBTQ+++ discriminate (and dislike) people who are not LGBTQ+++?  The answer - Some.  And there will always be "some." 
And how many non-LGBTQ+++ discriminate (and dislike) LGBTQ+++? The answer - Some.  And there will always be "some."
 

Just like I'd like 100% acceptance that I'm non-Thai and I want 100% of the Thai people to not discriminate against me.  Unrealistic.  There always will be some.

The fact that a same-sex marriage law is passed at all is the equivalent to Womens' suffage (when women obtained the equal rights to men to vote).  It's not a perfect world, but instead of bemoaning the fact that not all of the people will accept anything new all of the time - try celebrating the accomplishment of equality when it happens.  It's a milestone.  Be happy.

Now - in that vain, perhaps its also time to grant foreign men married to Thai women the same rights as as foreign women married to Thai men.  Now there is discrimination in all of its discriminatory ugliness which is still accepted by Thais.
Foreign women married to Thai men:  A valued core of a Thai nuclear family.
Foreign men married to Thai women:  Just visiting for a year and not valued by Thailand at all.

So LGBTQ+++ in Thailand  Get married legally.  Enjoy you new rights and equality.  Be happy.

 

 

The difference between a foreign man and Thai woman couple versus the opposite perhaps depends on the Thai view of the married couple where the man is dominant. I believe that this is also reflected in the law, so maybe there would have to be equality of the parties in a marriage. The question of whether one is a foreigner is a subsidiary issue. I wonder whether there is any difference between the North which is culturally matrilocal and Bangkok which is patrilocal, i.e. like China, in attitudes regarding mixed marriages.

[ikke1959]

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Your an ignorant person who has no idea.  I played golf most weeks for over 20 years with a gay guy - met his partner many times over dinner/beer, Both were good blokes - and he disliked the 'gay activists' a lot more than I do - and their views are very much what I am talking about and know a lot about. 

 

But people like yourself who see any comments from anyone that are not 'compliant' with the dogma being spewed out by the gay activists, label them as homophobic and thereby claim a win (virtue singalling).  I dont care if you are gay or not - I care about what sort of person you are and I will agree or disagree with your opinions impartially and fairly.  

you still don't have a clue...no idea where gay people have to deal with although you have fun and have a beer with them.... being friends with gays is something else than being in a relationship with a gay. Especially in countries that don't have any legal way for their relationships.. You don't know where they have to deal with it... and that is not playing golf with them

Edited April 8 by ikke1959

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

you still don't have a clue...no idea where gay people have to deal with although you have fun and have a beer with them.... being friends with gays is something else than being in a relationship with a gay

So why don't you tell us "where gay people have to deal with"? Just a few everyday examples will do. 

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Yes, my b/f is Thai. And Yes we had all of that - my divorce papers etc etc.

 

So? Why is all that going to be impossible for a gay couple at the local amphur? (Accepting that, here in south Surin, it may take a little time for the news to filter thru ... )

Well it only my personal opinion but we we'll wait an see, I just have have a feeling that staying here on a marriage visa/extension will not be allowed, I hope it is for all those involved, but I wouldn't hold my breath. 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So why don't you tell us "where gay people have to deal with"? Just a few everyday examples will do. 

Encountering clueless people like you.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Encountering clueless people like you.

Poor baby, did the mean man's words hurt you? 

[RobU]

What utter rubbish. We have just held the funeral of a gay man in our village. The whole village turned out to mourn and honour him including me. Many important local officials also attended. Thailand has always tolerated homosexuality the big problem I find is precious gay foreigners who bring their baggage and big chips on their shoulders with them looking for discrimination and taking insult where there is none. My own recent experience was criticising a stupid policeman who discharged a gun because he had an argument with his boyfriend, some people on this forum jumped in trying to state that i was criticising him because he was gay

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, RobU said:

What utter rubbish. We have just held the funeral of a gay man in our village. The whole village turned out to mourn and honour him including me. Many important local officials also attended. Thailand has always tolerated homosexuality the big problem I find is precious gay foreigners who bring their baggage and big chips on their shoulders with them looking for discrimination and taking insult where there is none. My own recent experience was criticising a stupid policeman who discharged a gun because he had an argument with his boyfriend, some people on this forum jumped in trying to state that i was criticising him because he was gay

Careful, you're hurting his feeeeeelings...

[RobU]

5 hours ago, brianthainess said:

They may make it legal, and that will be about adoption, inheritance etc. 

But I don't believe for one minute it will me a marriage conducted at an Amphur with a marriage certificate. 

Of course it will be. It is the only way to get legally married here. 

[RobU]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

This is Thailand Not OZ is your husband Thai ? The Thai marriage at the Amphur is not just photos and sign a form,

English speaking witnesses are also needed, and a docs from your embassy to say you are free to marry and for your spouse also, translated into Thai.

Yes they are. What is your problem? Gay couples will just have to do the same as heterosexual couples. Or do you want 'special' fast track treatment because you are gay?

[RobU]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Careful, you're hurting his feeeeeelings...

I don't care. (Sniffs and tosses head preciously) I hate horrid people