Taurine for life extension -- if you're old already why wait for the research on humans?

[Jingthing]

Not putting this on a health topic because no responsible health practioner is going to advise taking a supplement for a hoped for result that hasn't been tested on humans.

 

I am not recommending it either, not that I have any medical credibility on the topic either way.

 

So this is more of a general discussion / philosophy topic. 

 

You may have heard that Taurine has shown very good results in life extension in mice.

 

This is the same ingredient that is found in energy drinks, but energy drinks have lots of other stuff.

 

Apparently, to get a roughly equivalent dose you'd need to drink 5 energy drinks a day and you don't want to do that!

 

But wait. Taurine itself is available in supplements.

 

Apparently, Taurine in reasonable doses is not known to be harmful but if you try it for life extension you wouldn't know --

 

if it would work at all (no human research)

 

what the optimal dose would be even though you can rough guess (no human research)

 

if perhaps it would be harmful taken over a long time (no human research)

 

So this cannot and is not recommended as we wait (for how long? decades?)  for human research to be done.

 

So here's the 64,000 baht question.

 

If you're already old, you don't have the time to wait for the human research.

 

Would it really be so crazy for such people to take taurine supplements now?

 

What do they have to lose if it's a mistake? Obviously much less than younger people.

[save the frogs]

you may end up wasting a lot of money, at the very least, if it's not as effective as claimed

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

you may end up wasting a lot of money, at the very least, if it's not as effective as claimed

If you're older, money has much much less value than TIME.

I have no idea of doses but I checked on Lazada and the supplements aren't expensive, so that objection is a non issue.

 

Again, I'm not recommending that anyone do this.

 

But I am asking -- if you're old already, why not?

[indyo]

If you old already you cannot slow down the aging anymore

[GammaGlobulin]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Would it really be so crazy for such people to take taurine supplements now?

 

What do they have to lose if it's a mistake? Obviously much less than younger people.

 

To answer your question, JT:

 

a. Yes, it would be crazy.

b. There is much to lose.

 

Why?

 

If I prolong my life artificially through ingesting taurine or any other supplement, then I would:

 

a. Lose much money on additional dental care during supplemental years added to my natural lifespan.

b. I would lose a lot in peace of mind. As we become older, we tend to worry more.  I would lose out on peace of mind during any supplemental years.

 

c.  Therefore, I would never take any kind of supplement to add supplemental time, on top of the time served already, and the time I have yet to serve here in this world, one which is not of my choosing.

 

I would never consider prolonging my life so that I could add more time and more years of ever-increasing frailty.

 

What if I suffered sudden onset of macular degeneration?

Would that be fun at an advanced age?

Not for me, anyway.

 

So, I do not want to play God with my own predestined longevity.

No way, Jose!

 

   

[AreYouGerman]

Taking Taurine since years - 5-10gr daily with months off. It's best after heavy lifting sessions to cool down the CNS/heart, can't live without it.

 

It's in my top 5 of supplements.

 

I am also taking Berberine (similair to Metformin) and low dosage Telimsartan (for lower bp, not a supplement) and Lemon Bergamot (best lipids supp) and TUDCA (best for liver protection). And yeah, I don't drink alcohol and don't smoke and every time I crave sugar I eat beef instead. 😅

 

And I am taking 2-3 iu daily HGH half of the year even though the studies are not really saying it's life prolonging (unclear) but to feel like the final boss all the time is just awesome.

 

I think the idea of 'life prolonging' isn't really worth looking at (I am under 40, forgive my ignorance if you are older and feel different) but most importantly to enjoy life at the end, including to have and be able to live an active life. I don't see many old guys in my gym even though it is worth it (look at VO2 max longevity).

 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

To answer your question, JT:

 

a. Yes, it would be crazy.

b. There is much to lose.

 

Why?

 

If I prolong my life artificially through ingesting taurine or any other supplement, then I would:

 

a. Lose much money on additional dental care during supplemental years added to my natural lifespan.

b. I would lose a lot in peace of mind. As we become older, we tend to worry more.  I would lose out on peace of mind during any supplemental years.

 

c.  Therefore, I would never take any kind of supplement to add supplemental time, on top of the time served already, and the time I have yet to serve here in this world, one which is not of my choosing.

 

I would never consider prolonging my life so that I could add more time and more years of ever-increasing frailty.

 

What if I suffered sudden onset of macular degeneration?

Would that be fun at an advanced age?

Not for me, anyway.

 

So, I do not want to play God with my own predestined longevity.

No way, Jose!

 

   

Time served.

Good one. 

 

 

[jts-khorat]

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is the same ingredient that is found in energy drinks, but energy drinks have lots of other stuff.

 

The reason why it is in the original recipe for M-150 (and therefore red Bull) is, that it counters the vasoconstrictive effects of coffeine. Hence also as a use as a sports supplement.

 

I am a very heavy coffee drinker -- a currently extremely stressful job -- and as Taurine is cheap, I never drink my coffee without it. It seems to at least have the described effect there.

 

If it extends life, I do not know; but I do so many other things that supposedly are bad for my health, so I would not be too philosophical about it and simply try it. It cannot be worse than the ultimate result of old age.

[AreYouGerman]

2 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

The reason why it is in the original recipe for M-150 (and therefore red Bull) is, that it counters the vasoconstrictive effects of coffeine. Hence also as a use as a sports supplement.

 

And the story is also that France once banned energy drinks including Red Bull for 10+ years because they thought Taurine is harmful. 😅 

 

Imagine what food has big amounts of Taurine. Meat. Eat more meat!

[jts-khorat]

2 minutes ago, AreYouGerman said:

 

And the story is also that France once banned energy drinks including Red Bull for 10+ years because they thought Taurine is harmful. 😅 

 

Imagine what food has big amounts of Taurine. Meat. Eat more meat!

 

Not just France. I remember in the old techno days, that we bought horrendously expensive cans of Red Bull illegally smuggled in from Switzerland from the trunk of cars in the club parking lots. Those were the happy days 😜

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

If you're older, money has much much less value than TIME.

I have no idea of doses but I checked on Lazada and the supplements aren't expensive, so that objection is a non issue.

 

Again, I'm not recommending that anyone do this.

 

But I am asking -- if you're old already, why not?

 

I'm not sure there's any one supplement out there that is a magic pill. 

 

One guy is getting famous for life extension, Bryan Johnson, and he take a boatload of pills every day. He's a multi-millionaire.

 

And he is possibly a huckster. 

 

Solving life extension may be too complex for the average human being.

 

There are people who are claiming AI will eventually solve the problem of aging. Assuming AI gets smarter than humans. 

 

 

[bendejo]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

you may end up wasting a lot of money, at the very least, if it's not as effective as claimed

Yeah, maybe a waste of money but there is no other way to find out if it will work for you.  It's like buying a theatre ticket.    And then there is the price, 30 US pennys per day for a month or two isn't much of a complaint. 

IMO the crucial hazard is that you take something that may be detrimental to your well-being.  I knew a fellow who took a some zinc and had quite a negative reaction; I don't recall his story, but he did live to tell it, and he would be the first to admit he didn't know what he was doing.

After some years in SEA and only being able to find somewhat comparable vitamins to what I would buy in the US, I returned to the US and started taking the ones I used to take (a daily multiple, and a B-complex).  In about a month and a half my eyesight improved.  I cite it as the cause and effect of the vitamins, that's my best guess.  And it was not detrimental.  For those wondering what I bought in Asia if you go to Malaysia and look hard enough you may be able to find Soligar or Solaray (I forgot which). 

I have also started other supplements, some as doctors' recommendations: B12, D3, and now considering magnesium.

 

[CharlieH]

A large body of research suggests consuming taurine is safe, even when taken regularly. “Taurine has little to no known side effects associated with its suggested use,” notes Frick, “although, as with any dietary supplement, common complaints usually include digestive upset and headache.”Sep 18, 2566 BE

 

https://www.forbes.com › health

 

Taurine: Benefits, Side Effects And Supplements - Health - Forbes

[Lacessit]

Extrapolating longevity in mice to longevity in humans is hope, not fact. Every species reacts differently to inputs.

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So here's the 64,000 baht question.

 

If you're already old, you don't have the time to wait for the human research.

If you're already old ,,,,,,, why would you want to live any longer in your worn out body?

[bunnydrops]

When your number is up you are not going to be thinking beforehand " Boy, I'm glad I took such in such or I would be dead already" or " If I had only taken such and such I could waste another week of oxygen."

[georgegeorgia]

Where can one get Taurine in Thailand,do I have to order online?

What is the dosage ?

 

 

[bunnydrops]

During my Uni years, I lived near an Indian Reservation (US). One day, one of the Indian locals came down the street with a cast on his leg. I asked him what had happened. He pointed to the fourth-floor window across the street and said he fell out of the window backward. He said Thank God he was drunk at the time or he surely would have died.

[mania]

Taurine only as a side of Magnesium Taurate & yes it is useful

but....Try NMN if your over 55-60 the results are quite good.

1 Gram powder under tongue (sublingual) per day

[Hummin]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not putting this on a health topic because no responsible health practioner is going to advise taking a supplement for a hoped for result that hasn't been tested on humans.

 

I am not recommending it either, not that I have any medical credibility on the topic either way.

 

So this is more of a general discussion / philosophy topic. 

 

You may have heard that Taurine has shown very good results in life extension in mice.

 

This is the same ingredient that is found in energy drinks, but energy drinks have lots of other stuff.

 

Apparently, to get a roughly equivalent dose you'd need to drink 5 energy drinks a day and you don't want to do that!

 

But wait. Taurine itself is available in supplements.

 

Apparently, Taurine in reasonable doses is not known to be harmful but if you try it for life extension you wouldn't know --

 

if it would work at all (no human research)

 

what the optimal dose would be even though you can rough guess (no human research)

 

if perhaps it would be harmful taken over a long time (no human research)

 

So this cannot and is not recommended as we wait (for how long? decades?)  for human research to be done.

 

So here's the 64,000 baht question.

 

If you're already old, you don't have the time to wait for the human research.

 

Would it really be so crazy for such people to take taurine supplements now?

 

What do they have to lose if it's a mistake? Obviously much less than younger people.

eat food rich on taurine, oatmeal, meat, seeds and nuts rich in taurine. When it comes to aging, eat a balanced diet, rich in nutrients and add whey protein. Total protein pr day lean body mass pr kg 1g if you do not work out, and if you work out depending on how many day and the intensity up to 1,6g pr lean body mass pr kg. most normal people is fine with up to 1,2 and thats quite alot considering the measuring is lean body mass. 

 

first thing in morning move your body for 15 to 20 min before breakfest, drink enough fluid, and personally I do not reckon coffe or other stimulants as water intake. 

 

When it comes to aging, genes is still the major factor. 

 

Todays breakfest after 20 min walk with the dog

 

[Walker88]

5 hours ago, jts-khorat said:

 

The reason why it is in the original recipe for M-150 (and therefore red Bull) is, that it counters the vasoconstrictive effects of coffeine. Hence also as a use as a sports supplement.

 

I am a very heavy coffee drinker -- a currently extremely stressful job -- and as Taurine is cheap, I never drink my coffee without it. It seems to at least have the described effect there.

 

If it extends life, I do not know; but I do so many other things that supposedly are bad for my health, so I would not be too philosophical about it and simply try it. It cannot be worse than the ultimate result of old age.

Caffeine and other methyl xanthines are vasoconstrictors from the neck down, but vaso dilators from the neck up. That is why coffee helps people focus.

[Hummin]

 

Serious adverse effects have not been reported with taurine supplementation.[4][5] The highest dose used in a human trial was 10 grams per day for 6 months, and the longest human trial was 12 months and used a dose of 0.5–1.5 grams per day. Based on the available evidence, it’s suggested that 3 grams per day can be consumed indefinitely without risk of side effects.

 

Research on whether taurine improves muscle strength and power is limited and inconclusive,[28] and the effect of taurine on reducing symptoms of delayed onset muscle soreness and accelerating recovery following exercise is equivocal and requires further research

 

https://examine.com/supplements/taurine/#dosage-information

[Walker88]

The life extension stuff is secondary to healthspan extension.

 

The #1 thing folks can do to extend healthspan is resistance training, using heavy weights. Under physical stress the body produces more testosterone and more HGH. AN added benefit is one will feel good and look spiffy if there's still definition.

 

#2 seems to be good sleep.

 

According to lifespan researchers such as Peter Attia, #1 accounts for maybe 50% of the positives, #2 about 35%.

 

Diet seems to have a lesser impact, unless one is currently consuming too many calories and in particular, too much sugar.

 

Supplements might make a few percent difference, so they're best for someone already exercising, sleeping well, and eating decently.

 

Avoid obesity or Type II diabetes, avoid smoking, and limit booze intake, and one is mostly already there in terms of extending healthspan.

 

The research indicates the best supplements are:

 

Creatine (the body's first choice of fuel, and something the energy-hungry brain just loves)

Omega-3 (helps repair the blood-brain barrier, which deteriorates with age and allows nasties to get into the brain)

Vitamin D and Vitamin K in MK7 form

Collagen (for both skin and tendons/ligaments)

Magnesium (involved in over 200 differnt body chemical processes)

 

After that, there is anecdotal evidence about things such as NAC-Glycine (allows the body to produce Gluthathione, which is an anti-oxidant that aids liver repair and cleaning up from pollutants, but which if taken as a supplement just gets broker down, hence the precursors). Hyaluronic Acid might have the same benefits as collagen. Some form of Ashwaganda helps reduce cortisol, an inflammatory (but don't take it after a workout). Taurine might have benefits. One that is weird but which might also have a host of benefits (as it turbocharges mitochondria activity and seems to be an enemy of Tau protein and amyloid plaque) is methylene blue (an industrial dye).

 

With the right mental attitude, life is great fun, so those who enjoy it can pay the price for increased healthspan by doing the needful in the gym and the bed, as well as the dinner table.

 

The last thing: choose your parents well.

[Tropicalevo]

What fool would want to live forever?

We all have a 'sell by date'. Accept it.

I have had a great life and will live it to the full until it stops. Or until it is no longer great.

Hope everyone out there had the Songkran that they wanted.

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

 

 

Diet seems to have a lesser impact, unless one is currently consuming too many calories and in particular, too much sugar.

 

Could you eleborate a bit about this statement. I have no comments to the rest thats why Im only focusing on this one, since I believe and science back me on diets is essential for many things in life, especially sleep, daily routines, essential nutrients and more.

 

Clean fresh ecological food vs processed food for an example

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

What fool would want to live forever?

We all have a 'sell by date'. Accept it.

I have had a great life and will live it to the full until it stops. Or until it is no longer great.

Hope everyone out there had the Songkran that they wanted.

God sake forbid live to long, but live healthy and function as long as possible is the essential for most people I know who choose to take care of their health before it is to late

[CharlieH]

Troll/off topic posts and responses removed.

[Walker88]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Could you eleborate a bit about this statement. I have no comments to the rest thats why Im only focusing on this one, since I believe and science back me on diets is essential for many things in life, especially sleep, daily routines, essential nutrients and more.

 

Clean fresh ecological food vs processed food for an example

So many bits of accepted wisdom were never put to the test. Today's current billionaire class seems to want to maximize the time they get to enjoy their billions, so they are funding all sorts of research.

 

Researchers try to isolate for different factors, kind of like doing a laboratory regression analysis. Surprising to many has been the decreased importance of diet, within reason. Yes, limit sugar, limit processed foods and foods with pesticides or polluted with industrial metals (like almost all seafood), but heavy exercise seems to come out as #1.

 

Look at photos of Bezos, Zuckerberg, even Musk from few years ago, and today. Bezos in particular has gotten sculpted and buff. Zuckerberg less so, but he's more cut than before. Same with Musk. They paid for the research, and they're paying attention.

[Hummin]

6 hours ago, AreYouGerman said:

Taking Taurine since years - 5-10gr daily with months off. It's best after heavy lifting sessions to cool down the CNS/heart, can't live without it.

 

It's in my top 5 of supplements.

 

I am also taking Berberine (similair to Metformin) and low dosage Telimsartan (for lower bp, not a supplement) and Lemon Bergamot (best lipids supp) and TUDCA (best for liver protection). And yeah, I don't drink alcohol and don't smoke and every time I crave sugar I eat beef instead. 😅

 

And I am taking 2-3 iu daily HGH half of the year even though the studies are not really saying it's life prolonging (unclear) but to feel like the final boss all the time is just awesome.

 

I think the idea of 'life prolonging' isn't really worth looking at (I am under 40, forgive my ignorance if you are older and feel different) but most importantly to enjoy life at the end, including to have and be able to live an active life. I don't see many old guys in my gym even though it is worth it (look at VO2 max longevity).

 

are you on trt to ? 

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, jts-khorat said:

I am a very heavy coffee drinker -- a currently extremely stressful job -- and as Taurine is cheap, I never drink my coffee without it. It seems to at least have the described effect there.

This is interesting,

I love a cup of coffee in the morning. but as I got older I found that my BP would shoot up . even if I had a cup. Ny hands and feet would get sweaty. 

I have to look more into this Taurine. Any additional info would be appreciated