65K Monthly Method for Retirement Visa

[SportRider]

Just been searching for the answer to this, couldn't find it so am posting as new topic.

 

Situation would be application for non-immigrant 'O' & retirement extension to a visa exempt entry.  UK national.

 

I understand showing 12 x monthly transfers to a Thai bank of at least 65,000 THB is acceptable as proof of funds for retirement visa (for 12 months prior to application).

 

Q1: BUT I read somewhere that the *first* extension requires 800,000 in the bank, and only subsequent extensions could be 65k monthly.  Is that correct?

 

Q2: Also, how is 'retirement' defined or checked if at all.  Eg is source of the monthly inbound funds checked?  Could someone have various sources of income from overseas business interests and just send themselves 65k each month?

 

Thanks a lot for your kind guidance.

 

SR

 

 

 

[QuantumQuandry]

23 minutes ago, SportRider said:

Q2: Also, how is 'retirement' defined or checked if at all.  Eg is source of the monthly inbound funds checked?  Could someone have various sources of income from overseas business interests and just send themselves 65k each month?

 

I applied for my retirement extension a few days ago, using the 65k method, at Jomtien Immigration.

 

They required me to show both the statement from the Thai bank (which, btw, took a week to get...no-one mentioned that part to me lol)...and also some proof of where the funds were coming *from*.

 

Two caveats here:  The guy next door that helped me prepare the documents for immigration asked me what they wanted and seem perplexed, indicating that he seemed to have not heard of this before.  So it could just be my immigration guy had a bug up his ass.  He seemed pleasant enough but...I don't know.

 

The other caveat is that the only thing I had available on my phone were some withdrawal alerts that matched up with the amounts and dates.  I asked if that would be ok or if I needed to go home and print off a year of statements from the originating bank.  He accepted them.  Not sure if that means my extension is likely approved or not.  We will see in a few days.

Edited April 14 by QuantumQuandry

[KhunLA]

Retirement is simply 50+ yrs old, and not working in TH, unless having a permit to do.   They don't care how the money is source or where, as long as it's deposited into a Thai bank account from abroad.

 

Bank will give you 'credit advice' which will state (track) the deposits.  Bank will also give you a full print out of your account, and a final balance statement .  All a bit redundant, but all 3 required by my Imm office, along with copies of every page of my bank book for past year.  Paperwork silliness. 

 

Buddha forbid they would simple accept my USA Soc Sec 1099 statement, showing more than 800k income required.

 

Do allow at least 1 week to apply, as it takes that long for the bank to issue.   My Imm office wants that filed day issued, or next day.    Statement & updated bank book balance must match.

 

Recommend apply for extension, as soon as allowed, in case paperwork isn't accepted, as will take another week to get new bank paperwork.

 

I almost had an oops.   My last deposit is done on 3 or 4th, and I waited till 10th to extend.  Missing 1 piece of bank paperwork, so had to get new, took 7 days, and my visa expired on that last day, the 17th.  Yep, cutting that one close.   Will submit on the 4th or 5th now, or maybe even change the extension date to previous month, on the 30th, so give me 26 days to prep, instead of 13.

[DrJack54]

25 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

They don't care how the money is source or where, as long as it's deposited into a Thai bank account from abroad.

Think you will find it depends on the immigration office.

Some may accept the 65k+ per month from overseas.

Some will require some proof that it comes from some type of pension/income stream. 

[dingdongrb]

"So it could just be my immigration guy had a bug up his ass. "

 

"Think you will find it depends on the immigration office."

 

I thought it has been identified numerous times before:

 

It doesn't matter what the rules/laws are because it can change at any time due to:

 

- Immigration office location

- Immigration officer processing the application

- Mood of the Immigration officer processing the application

- Applicant's behavior

- Moon phase

[Chivas]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Think you will find it depends on the immigration office.

Some may accept the 65k+ per month from overseas.

Some will require some proof that it comes from some type of pension/income stream. 

 

Surely there must be proof that it does indeed come from retirement pension income ??

 

Otherwise as someone already mentioned you could just send 65k a month to yourself ??

[xylophone]

26 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Otherwise as someone already mentioned you could just send 65k a month to yourself ??

Yes, you can do that, and as long as the 65K is logged in your bank account on a monthly basis, then in my experience that's all that immigration need to see/know.

 

Immigration just need to know that you have an "income" of 65K per month to enable you to live here – – the more the merrier, the less, then you have a problem!

[DrJack54]

28 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Otherwise as someone already mentioned you could just send 65k a month to yourself ??

Well in actual fact many do.

That can be from a variety of sources. 

Example rental properties, shares etc etc.

 

As I stated earlier some immigration offices are satisfied with monthly transfers of 65k+

(Best idea to transfer on consistent date) 

 

Some may want proof of source of income.

Pension etc. 

[TheAppletons]

39 minutes ago, Chivas said:

 

Surely there must be proof that it does indeed come from retirement pension income ??

 

Otherwise as someone already mentioned you could just send 65k a month to yourself ??

 

  That isn't a requirement.  

[foreverlomsak]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Retirement is simply 50+ yrs old, and not working in TH, unless having a permit to do. 

Retirement is simply 50+ (correct provided you can meet the financial requirements)

Not working in TH (correct)

Unless having a permit to do (then you won't be on retirement as the labor office will not issue you with a Work Permit - been there and done that)

[foreverlomsak]

3 hours ago, QuantumQuandry said:

 

I applied for my retirement extension a few days ago, using the 65k method, at Jomtien Immigration.

 

They required me to show both the statement from the Thai bank (which, btw, took a week to get...no-one mentioned that part to me lol)...and also some proof of where the funds were coming *from*.

 

Two caveats here:  The guy next door that helped me prepare the documents for immigration asked me what they wanted and seem perplexed, indicating that he seemed to have not heard of this before.  So it could just be my immigration guy had a bug up his ass.  He seemed pleasant enough but...I don't know.

 

The other caveat is that the only thing I had available on my phone were some withdrawal alerts that matched up with the amounts and dates.  I asked if that would be ok or if I needed to go home and print off a year of statements from the originating bank.  He accepted them.  Not sure if that means my extension is likely approved or not.  We will see in a few days.

 

I know it's Jomtien as you say, but I still don't understand the delay.

I've used 4 different offices for annual retirement extensions and all of them approved on the spot and stamped the passport accordingly. Normally only takes about 30-40 mins in the office. Also with a Non-B and work permit, extension approved and passport stamped all in one 30-40 minute visit.

[Red Phoenix]

OP didn't provide info on which Imm Office he would be applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement from his Visa Exempt entry using the +65K income transfer method. 

If OP would apply at CW, CM, Jomtien, Phuket, or another very large Imm Office, some posters that recently did same at that office might provide him with an overview of the requirements at that Office.

Otherwise, it is recommended that he would visit the Imm Office where he plans to apply and to hear about the requirements as being applied at that office, this because the local interpretation/application of the requirements will greatly vary at each Imm Office.

= = =

The main requirements for his application are the financial ones. 

When using the +65K monthly income transfer method, here are the 'variations' that you can come across depending on the Imm Office where you apply.

# Some Imm Offices require that at the moment of application you can show evidence of at least 1 transfer of + 65K to your personal Thai bank-account, while others require 2 or 3 transfers in the months preceding your application.  And there are even Imm Offices that require 12 of such monthly transfers even for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa application.

# There are also variations possible when applying at the end of the 90-days for the 1-year extension based on that Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.  Depending on the office they can require 2, 3 or 12 months of monthly +65 K transfers. 

# After the first 1-year extension of stay application (at the end of the 90-day period of the initial Non Imm O Visa), the requirement is 12 or 13 months of such +65K monthly income transfers to your personal Thai bank-account.

# Some Imm Offices also require that the monthly transfers are done approx at same time of the month. 

# Some Imm Offices require that on top of the +65K monthly income transfers that you  provide evidence of the SOURCE of that income.  And some Imm Offices (e.g. Jomtien) only accept an official pension statement as evidence for the source, while others do not mandate any source-requirements at all, except evidence that the +65K funds originated from abroad. 

= = =

Considering the above, it is therefore recommended to either get exact information from posters that recently used the same Imm Office as you would be applying for such a 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement using the +65K income method.  Or simply visit the Imm Office and ask about the requirements that they would impose for the initial 90-day Non Imm O Visa application as well as for the first 1-year extension (after 3 months).

Edited April 14 by Red Phoenix

[KannikaP]

4 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Think you will find it depends on the immigration office.

Some may accept the 65k+ per month from overseas.

Some will require some proof that it comes from some type of pension/income stream. 

And some, like Phitsanulok, with accept the Combination Method, where as long as the regular monthly foreign transfers plus money in the bank add up to more than Bht 800k, you are good to go. 

I have Bht 420k in the bank and send Bht 40k per month = total Bht 900k.

[choff56]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Yes, you can do that, and as long as the 65K is logged in your bank account on a monthly basis, then in my experience that's all that immigration need to see/know.

 

Immigration just need to know that you have an "income" of 65K per month to enable you to live here – – the more the merrier, the less, then you have a problem!

Yes, and they also want to make sure sure you are not laundering illegal money. About 3 years ago Thai immigration started asking to show proof of were my money was coming from.

[DrJack54]

26 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

And some, like Phitsanulok......

The only answer that assists the OP, is to check with your immigration office.

He didn't indicate that in the OP. 

Being Oz then same as OP (UK) not able to obtain income letter from embassy. 

I checked with io at CW and she wanted "show pension" 

 

Here is post from me in thread from March. 

 

"I have read reports that basically state that their immigration office just wanted to see bank statements that the 65k came per month on a consistent date. That's it.

Also read many where immigration office insisted on back up info .

I can understand that immigration can claim rental income is not a guarantee source of income. 

 

In my case just by example (not a brag) .

I have several rental properties and super fund (shares) in Oz...I wanted to change to income method. 

So I changed my super fund set up to monthly income. Referred to "income stream" 

Didn't need it but was done to be able to show immigration. 

 

In ironic twist have decided to use agent ongoing for extensions 

[QuantumQuandry]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

I know it's Jomtien as you say, but I still don't understand the delay.

 

They pointed to a big sign:

 

 

And yeah, it's going to be awesome, going to immigration on the 18th with Songkran in full rage mode...

  

35 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

And some Imm Offices (e.g. Jomtien) only accept an official pension statement as evidence for the source, while others do not mandate any source-requirements at all, except evidence that the +65K funds originated from abroad. 

 

Note, Jomtien did not ask an official pension statement from me (which is good since I don't have one).  But then again, my passport was only accepted by the officer, I haven't gotten my passport back yet.  Not sure if that means I am good to go or if they will reject it for not having a pension statement.  Not sure what I will do if they want that.

 

Edited April 14 by QuantumQuandry

[KannikaP]

41 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I checked with io at CW and she wanted "show pension"

How bloody stupid. You can get 'Retirement' extension at age 50, but earliest you can draw on a Private pension is 55, or State one 66.

[DrJack54]

18 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

How bloody stupid. You can get 'Retirement' extension at age 50, but earliest you can draw on a Private pension is 55, or State one 66.

Tell her. Not me.

At 50 without income letter you have option for funds in bank method. 

 

I was eligible for income stream at 55.

However did not require that. 

[expat_4_life]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

How bloody stupid. You can get 'Retirement' extension at age 50, but earliest you can draw on a Private pension is 55, or State one 66.

 

This is simply not true (in the US anyway), some selected professions can retire at 50, Law enforcement officers and fire fighters for example.

LEOs and firefighters may retire voluntarily at an earlier age with a special annuity computation if they meet the age and service requirements: at least age 50 at the time of retirement and have 20 years of law enforcement and/or firefighter service.

Some US military are also able to retire after 20 years of service.

You'll receive a pension after 20 years of service. Active-duty Soldiers can start pension payments, at any age they choose.

[Red Phoenix]

The terminology 'Retirement Visa' can and often does put applicants on the wrong foot, as they presume that you need to be 'retired' to be eligible for such a Visa. And of course that's not the case, as the requirement is simply that you need to be +50 years of age. 

And whether you are retired and get income from pension, is only relevant when making use of a different method than the 'Funds in Bank' method to provide evidence of the required financials, and that ONLY in the case that your specific Imm Office requires a pension statement when you use a different method than the 'Funds in Bank' one.  

[kawikasudo]

At Jomtien they asked me for a copy of retirement pension which I gave them a copy of monthly gross and net of my federal government pension and they accepted it. 

[SmokeandIce]

19 hours ago, SportRider said:

Just been searching for the answer to this, couldn't find it so am posting as new topic.

 

Situation would be application for non-immigrant 'O' & retirement extension to a visa exempt entry.  UK national.

 

I understand showing 12 x monthly transfers to a Thai bank of at least 65,000 THB is acceptable as proof of funds for retirement visa (for 12 months prior to application).

 

Q1: BUT I read somewhere that the *first* extension requires 800,000 in the bank, and only subsequent extensions could be 65k monthly.  Is that correct?

 

 

 

As mentioned before, much depends on what immigration office you use.  When I was going from visa exempt to 3 month Non-O, Chaeng Wattana would not accept the monthly THB 65,000 for 12 months; the only two options were THB 800,000 in a Thai bank or a letter from one of the few foregn embassies that still offer this.

 

For any 12 month Non-O extensions, CW accepts either THB 800,000 (seasoned) or 12 months of THB 65,000.

[MPoll]

12 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

 

This is simply not true (in the US anyway), some selected professions can retire at 50, Law enforcement officers and fire fighters for example.

 

There are workplace pensions as well that have nothing to do with profession. I retired from the University of at 55. Every employee at UC has a pension benefit if you’ve worked there long enough.

[soisanuk]

16 minutes ago, SmokeandIce said:

As mentioned before, much depends on what immigration office you use.  When I was going from visa exempt to 3 month Non-O, Chaeng Wattana would not accept the monthly THB 65,000 for 12 months; the only two options were THB 800,000 in a Thai bank or a letter from one of the few foregn embassies that still offer this.

 

For any 12 month Non-O extensions, CW accepts either THB 800,000 (seasoned) or 12 months of THB 65,000.

 

Most of the answers so far relate to "extension" of stay rather than applying for the Non-Immigrant O Visa.  Smokeandice's above comment notes the requirement for applying for the Visa at CW which is the requirement for getting the "Visa" - using monthly income is acceptable for the subsequent "extension" of stay.

[Presnock]

18 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

"So it could just be my immigration guy had a bug up his ass. "

 

"Think you will find it depends on the immigration office."

 

I thought it has been identified numerous times before:

 

It doesn't matter what the rules/laws are because it can change at any time due to:

 

- Immigration office location

- Immigration officer processing the application

- Mood of the Immigration officer processing the application

- Applicant's behavior

- Moon phase

I did the 65k a month coming from my stateside bank to bangkok bank - no source on the funding other than the credit advice and the io didn't want that as it came from the states.  only wanted bb info.

[NedR69]

12 hours ago, expat_4_life said:

 

This is simply not true (in the US anyway), some selected professions can retire at 50, Law enforcement officers and fire fighters for example.

LEOs and firefighters may retire voluntarily at an earlier age with a special annuity computation if they meet the age and service requirements: at least age 50 at the time of retirement and have 20 years of law enforcement and/or firefighter service.

Some US military are also able to retire after 20 years of service.

You'll receive a pension after 20 years of service. Active-duty Soldiers can start pension payments, at any age they choose.

Yes...100%.  Maybe in a specific country people can't retire and draw a pension.  An example the US, a person enters military service at 18, spends 20 years, and can retire with a pension at 38; then start another career and work again for a set amount of years and get a second pension after some period of time, that could be several years less than another the first 20 year career; then draw even a third pension, or fourth pension.

[Henryford]

18 hours ago, Chivas said:

 

Surely there must be proof that it does indeed come from retirement pension income ??

 

Otherwise as someone already mentioned you could just send 65k a month to yourself ??

 

Yes without this could you just circulate the same 65k

 

Month 1 send 65k from the UK to Thailand, draw in cash and deposit in another bank, send the 65k back to the UK

 

Month 2 send the same 65k to Thailand....... repeat

[jerrymahoney]

Up to u but this is the reference to "proof" actually 'evidence' at (3)

 

ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU
No. 327/2557
Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application
for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

 

 

Edited April 15 by jerrymahoney

[Red Phoenix]

23 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Yes without this could you just circulate the same 65k

 

Month 1 send 65k from the UK to Thailand, draw in cash and deposit in another bank, send the 65k back to the UK

Month 2 send the same 65k to Thailand....... repeat

Yes indeed, if you are living in Thailand on a very small budget you could do such money re-cycling to meet the 'foreign origin' requirement of the funds when using the Monthly Income Transfer method.  And it would only be at those Imm Offices that also require a 'pension statement' when applying for the 'retirement' Visa/extension using that method, where you would not be able to meet their requirement. 

So mandating the pension statement as a requirement only 'catches' some very small fish, while it is unnecessary for the large majority of applicants and only provides them with the burden to get hold of that extra document.

Note that there is NO source requirement when using the Monthly Income Transfer method when applying for reason of marriage or dependant Thai children.  For such application you only need to show a transfer of +40K every month to your personal Thai bank-account, irrespective where it comes from.   

Edited April 15 by Red Phoenix

[jerrymahoney]

All I will say is that, if some IO's at some IMM offices do not require as current a "proof of income" letter, that does not mean they will not require one NEXT year.