Swiss Expat Critically Injured in Scooter-Car Crash in Pattaya

[Liverpool Lou]

25 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

36 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

a junction with a fixed white line

...as opposed to a loose, all-over-the-place white line?

 

We feeling a bit 'literal' today LL ???  - take a sip of your juice... 

No, not at all, notice the question mark that means I was asking a question.   I hoped you could answer it for me...what is a "fixed white line"?

[richard_smith237]

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, not at all, notice the question mark that means I was asking a question.   I hoped you could answer it for me...what is a "fixed white line"?

 

Apologies if I took your question within the context of your usual facetious and literal approach to these discussions.... 

 

>>   Fixed White Line / Solid White Line / Unbroken White Line / Thick Solid White Line

 

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

26 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

 

We can purchase electric scooters from Big C that a road legal but not on major roads... perhaps this falls into the same category.

 

 

 

Got a link to these Big C electric scoots that are road legal ?

 

Does Big C provide all the required documents for the DLT to supply a book and plates ?

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Apologies if I took your question within the context of your usual facetious and literal approach to these discussions.... 

 

>>   Fixed White Line / Solid White Line / Unbroken White Line / Thick Solid White Line

 

 

 

 

 

The white line in the line to stop at.... when there are stop signs in place.

Where are the stop signs in your picture ?

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Does that mean IF we cannot see a classification then its just an electric trike ?? - they're actually called Mobility Trikes (and most of them are road legal in other countries).

 

IMO - It is an Electric Mobility Trike which is being used by an old fella with mobility issues....    

 

Does it need to be road legal in Thailand - thats a grey area (they're road legal in many other countries)

 

We can purchase electric scooters from Big C that a road legal but not on major roads... perhaps this falls into the same category.

 

 

 

I wanted to add to this...   

 

Looking at and comparing the the photos and seeing whats available to purchase in Thailand the Mobility Trike in question (otherwise called disability scooter etc - just semantics)....  appears to be the Fengchi electric tricycle.

 

Its 500w and has turn signals / brake lights etc...  has a 40-60km range. 

 

It also has a place for a licence holder which implies it is designed to be road legal. 

 

Whether or not road legalisation of these trike is possible in Thailand is different matter (and depends on the DLT).

 

 

Here's some photos....  it certainly looks like the tike in the video (of the incident).

 

This is no way diminishes the point - the SUV blew through a junction at speed, IMO, illegally. 

 

I just wanted to point out that those who are using the flawed argument that the Trike should not have been there because its not road legal are throwing up red flags for some reason to defend a reckless SUV driver....

 

That said: I also agree the Swiss Trike rider could have been a lot more careful in his riding. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Ralf001 said:

The white line in the line to stop at.... when there are stop signs in place.

Where are the stop signs in your picture ?

 

You seem to be of the opinion that lines on the road are only valid when they are associated with a sign.... 

 

(slightly different scenario) I received a ticket for crossing a solid white line changing lanes into the next lane - but there was no sign to state I cannot - I wish I had you there to argue that the Police were wrong because there was no sign !!!! 

 

 

[Ralf001]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You seem to be of the opinion that lines on the road are only valid when they are associated with a sign.... 

 

 

 

 

 

Correct champ... gold star for you.

 

The line means nothing without the associated signage... This is common thing in many countries.

 

Maybe you shoulda looked into this before hanging your hat on a white line !

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

37 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

We can purchase electric scooters from Big C that a road legal but not on major roads... perhaps this falls into the same category.

 

 

Got a link to these Big C electric scoots that are road legal ?

 

Does Big C provide all the required documents for the DLT to supply a book and plates ?

 

Its widely known (perhaps not by you though) that these electric scooters that have been around for more than a decade can be used around the Soi's - but not on main roads such as Sukhumvit road etc... 

 

I think the legality side of it is more of a grey area than actual law, I was using the wrong term with legal - I should have mentioned 'accepted within limits by officials and law enforcement in Thailand'.......    The police just wont bother you unless you are out on the main roads.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Its widely known (perhaps not by you though) that these electric scooters that have been around for more than a decade can be used around the Soi's - but not on main roads such as Sukhumvit road etc... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So they are legal to ride in the soi's you claim.

Does Big C supply the required new vehicle documentation to register them for soi use with the DLT ?

[GammaGlobulin]

The front bumper height of these HUGE vehicles is MUCH higher and very dangerous, compared to the conventional automobiles of past decades.

 

These cars are not cars; they are trucks.

They should be banned from all public roads.

These are OK for off-road use.

 

How much BIGGER does the family auto actually need to be before Joe Redneck is finally satisfied?

 

How dangerous?:

 

Just ask the hospitals who have seen many more upper-body injuries in recent decades.  These upper-body injuries are more lethal, and also more difficult to treat, and require more days in hospital.

 

Ban These Garbage-Trucks, I say!

 

 

 

 

[Ralf001]

3 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The front bumper height of these HUGE vehicles is MUCH higher and very dangerous, compared to the conventional automobiles of past decades.

 

These cars are not cars; they are trucks.

They should be banned from all public roads.

These are OK for off-road use.

 

How much BIGGER does the family auto actually need to be before Joe Redneck is finally satisfied?

 

How dangerous?:

 

Just ask the hospitals who have seen many more upper-body injuries in recent decades.  These upper-body injuries are more lethal, and also more difficult to treat, and require more days in hospital.

 

Ban These Garbage-Trucks, I say!

 

 

 

 

hahahahaha.. put down the crack pipe princess !

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Correct champ... gold star for you.

 

The line means nothing without the associated signage... This is common thing in many countries.

 

Maybe you shoulda looked into this before hanging your hat on a white line !

 

YAWN...  "Champ"...   keep trying....   that only works on other bogans....

 

 

As pointed out earlier... I really hope you don't drive...  

 

 

I can imagine you.... after running over a mother and child while blowing through a junction.......    "But there was no sign to tell me not to" !!!! 

 

 

 

Road markings are there for a reason and do not need a sign to make the valid....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The front bumper height of these HUGE vehicles is MUCH higher and very dangerous, compared to the conventional automobiles of past decades.

 

These cars are not cars; they are trucks.

They should be banned from all public roads.

These are OK for off-road use.

 

How much BIGGER does the family auto actually need to be before Joe Redneck is finally satisfied?

 

How dangerous?:

 

The size really isn't the issue... The vehicles all have to pass various safety rating to be road legal.... (NCAP / ACAP etc)...  and pedestrian safety etc...

 

The Swiss Guy was going to get severely injured if it were a Honda Jazz blowing through a 'stop junction' at speed and hitting him.... 

 

The the only facet of size that was going to make a difference is if the Swiss man was also in another car, thus protecting him - bit it still would have been a side impact, so the safety of the care (i.e. curtain airbags) would then make a difference, especially if there were a passenger).

 

13 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Just ask the hospitals who have seen many more upper-body injuries in recent decades.  These upper-body injuries are more lethal, and also more difficult to treat, and require more days in hospital.

 

Regarding pedestrian safety I agree....   

 

 

13 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Ban These Garbage-Trucks, I say!

 

 

Sales matter... I'm not putting my family in something tiny.... 

 

Example at hand Volvo-XC90 is the only car in the UK in which no passenger has died.

 

 

The whole point is off topic anyway.... 

 

 

Edited April 23 by richard_smith237

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Jazz blowing through a 'stop junction' at speed and hitting him.... 

 

the stop junction that has not stop signage ?

[Ralf001]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Road markings are there for a reason and do not need a sign to make the valid....

 

 

No traffic light or signage... white lines means F-All.

The white line you have hung your hat on.

Well it was painted when the bypass was made dual carriageway and traffic lights installed.

The traffic lights was a catastrophic disaster for traffic management and were no longer used shortly after implementation, this was around 2015 from memory.... maybe a few years earlier.

 

No more traffic lights = white lines means F-All.

 

Run along champ... you have zero knowledge to comment on this road.

 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Jazz blowing through a 'stop junction' at speed and hitting him.... 

 

the stop junction that has not stop signage ?

 

Yeah, right-oh champ....     

 

...You're still struggling I see..      out there is a hard working tree producing the oxygen wasted on you.... 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by richard_smith237

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

No traffic light or signage... white lines means F-All.

The white line you have hung your hat on.

Well it was painted when the bypass was made dual carriageway and traffic lights installed.

The traffic lights was a catastrophic disaster for traffic management and were no longer used shortly after implementation, this was around 2015 from memory.... maybe a few years earlier.

 

No more traffic lights = white lines means F-All.

 

Run along champ... you have zero knowledge to comment on this road.

 

 

So you are saying that its perfectly legal for a cars to blow through this junction at 80 kmh....  ? 

 

....  you and anyone like you are a dangerous idiot on the road....  you'll kill someone - just like this SUV driver nearly did....

 

IF you are saying the white lines should be ignored because they are old and no longer denote a 'stop line'...  then there are not stop lines or marks, on the other road indicating they must give way either.... 

 

Thus: the roads are of equal 'status'...    and as the Trike was already in the junction, the SUV still had to give way....

 

Now think about that ya daft toaster... 

 

 

 

 

 

[MangoKorat]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Poor road design, poor policing, poor drivers ignoring the rules

Couldn't agree more. However, as I've posted many times - In my opinion, the Thai police are the route of all evil as far as road safety is concerned.

 

The government keep banging on, year after year about this new road safety measure, that new rule.  None of that will do an damned thing until the police start enforcing the existing laws.  Once they do that (never going to happen by the way), people will begin driving to a better standard and road safety will improve.

 

We are not in the last century, Thailand now has better roads (even if they don't mark them correctly) and cars/bikes are capable of high speeds - you can't mix that with lawlessness. There are a few inbuilt problems like the traffic lights that flash at night for example. I'm yet to meet a Thai, and many foreigners for that matter, that understand how they are supposed to work.  They are a complete recipe for disaster! Most of the problems however, are down to poor driver behaviour.

 

Its way beyond time to stop talking and start doing.

 

There are bad drivers and poor driving in most countries but enforcement controls them.  On the whole, drivers in most countries stick to the rules because of the fear of punishment.  In severe cases you can lose your licence but that's not a problem in Thailand where the chances are that a driver doesn't have a licence in the first place.  And why would they need a licence?  All a Thai driver has to do if they are stopped and asked to show their licence, is say they left it at home - naughty boy, 200 baht and on your way.  No check at all as to whether they actually have a licence or not. 

 

We all know where the 200 baht ends up and therein lies the inherent nature of the problem.  The police don't want to see improvements because they would lose revenue if systems were put in place to ensure drivers had licences and drive properly when they do. 

 

Imagine being able to know from a computer based in your car, that the driver you have just pulled over, doesn't actually have a licence? Or from the ANPR camera on your dashboard, their car is out of tax, doesn't have a current safety certificate or insurance?  Granted, that's pretty state of the art but before ANPR, UK police officers used to be able to radio in a reg number/name and get those details in a couple of minutes - that's old tech but effective and fairly easy to apply in Thailand.

 

I bet they hate the fixed speed cameras that are slowly appearing on Thai roads - no opportunities there!  I've even heard it suggested that the police are behind the fact that many fixed cameras don't work - sounds a but far fetched but it would fit.

 

There are three main factors that improved road safety in Thailand depends on:

 

Enforcement, Enforcement and Enforcement.

 

Most of the time it just doesn't happen and when it does, well its a waste of time - all drivers worry about is how much an offence is going to cost them and on most occasions, that is very little.

Edited April 23 by MangoKorat

[SAFETY FIRST]

A couple of you here seem obsessed with the white line. Disregard the white line, no one pays any notice of the white line. 

 

If you are driving and stop at that white line you are endangering your life and property. This road takes a lot of traffic, most cars, trucks and buses travelling at 80 km/h.

This main road traffic continues to flow, only stopping when vehicles have entered the intersection from the little soi's on the left or right, then the vehicles enter the intersection, only when there is a break in the traffic.

This road runs parallel to the Sukhumvit, it takes similar traffic, it's a main thoroughfare, similar to the Sukhumvit. 

No driver in their right mind would stop at every little side street on the Sukhumvit, because this is dangerous. 

 

Most here are missing the point, the Swiss guy came shooting out of the side street, without looking or slowing, you'd have to be a crazy person or wanting to hurt yourself to drive this way.

 

Another point is, it's the 19th, it's THE Songkran day, he's going to get stopped, powdered, ice water thrown at him, what is he doing out and about, the article says medication, I don't believe, you'd get your medication prior to Songkran, I'm sure all the other foreigners on their disability scooters are inside, safe and sound. 

 

There's more to the story than the unusual white line and the mystery why it's there, that's for another thread.

 

That poor woman in the SUV, it would have scared her. On this road you never see a crazy person, flying out of a side street when vehicles are travelling at 80 km/h, she did nothing wrong, it's how every one drives on that road, nobody stops at a stupid white line (no one in their right mind). 

 

I'd say the Swiss guy has mental health issues, darting out of the side street would be similar to darting out of a side street on the Sukhumvit, I reckon he has tried to hurt himself. 

 

Is he trying to injure himself, is it an insurance job? 

Maybe the Swiss guy is aware of the white line, hoping for a payout, knowing his reckless behaviour would pay dividends. 

 

Edited April 23 by SAFETY FIRST

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

What is it with all these foreigners tourists expats comming to Thailand and trying to show their thainess and do things they would not even dream back home ? But the main fault is with the Thai police who just does not enforce the helmet rule and other road rules towards all - locals or foreigners.

In this case, on a 3 wheelers, perhaps an invalid carriage, is a helmet obligated?

[Skipalongcassidy]

17 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Climb down of your high horse there Tonto.

 

1. That mobility scooter is not road legal in Thailand.

 

Show me one source that supports what you say here... or  do you just make up things.

[Gottfrid]

11 hours ago, transam said:

Have you found that photo yet..........?      🤭

Can you please explain what you are referring to and asking for? What photo?

[quake]

Suv was in the Wrong.

But the scooter rider was just stupid.

You can't behave in that manor at that junction.

very bad things will happen,  if you do.

now his totally broken.

I used to cross at that point twice a day for 5 years.

it's deadly, you need to show the upmost caution there.

traffic is moving way to fast on the bypass road to behave in a reckless way crossing it.

Get well soon, silly old sod.

 

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

22 minutes ago, quake said:

Suv was in the Wrong.

But the scooter rider was just stupid.

You can't behave in that manor at that junction.

very bad things will happen,  if you do.

now his totally broken.

I used to cross at that point twice a day for 5 years.

it's deadly, you need to show the upmost caution there.

traffic is moving way to fast on the bypass road to behave in a reckless way crossing it.

Get well soon, silly old sod.

 

 

So let's play "BLAME THE VICTIM" again and again

[Skipalongcassidy]

14 minutes ago, quake said:

 

What a laugh.

Seen any real number plates on them. 

Have you seen any number plates on bicycles yet they are legal as well... I don't think you really know anything

[quake]

1 minute ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Have you seen any number plates on bicycles yet they are legal as well... I don't think you really know anything

 

Yes, you could be right on that one. my bad

 

[Ralf001]

2 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

the article says medication, I don't believe, you'd get your medication prior to Songkran, I'm sure all the other foreigners on their disability scooters are inside, safe and sound. 

 

He was heading from suk road direction up Khao talo to buy meds ?.

 

Where did he live !

[Henryford]

On 4/22/2024 at 11:51 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

What are the traffic rules on that intersection? 

 

Every man for himself

[SAFETY FIRST]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

 

He was heading from suk road direction up Khao talo to buy meds ?.

 

Where did he live !

I'd say he was getting his medicinal Ganja or his antidepressants. 

 

Probably why he was driving so dangerously. 

 

 

Edited April 24 by SAFETY FIRST

[SAFETY FIRST]

43 minutes ago, Henryford said:

On 4/22/2024 at 11:51 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

What are the traffic rules on that intersection? 

 

Every man for himself

Yes, also the biggest vehicle always has right of way. 

 

Edited April 24 by SAFETY FIRST