We got a shiny new digital meter

[lom]

I've been wondering for some time when someone at PEA will react to our drastically reduced power consumption since end of May last year when I first started to use solar power.

 

We have always had our meter read in the morning of the 20th during the 22 years we have lived here and the only exception to that has been them reading it one day earlier if the 20th was a public holiday.
That changed in February when they came the 19th even though the 20th wasn't a holiday and then in March they came even earlier, the 18th. 🙂 so I suspected that something was in the doing.

I have not exported much to the grid this year, only around 20 units/month but not close to the dates the meter reader has been here so I'm quite sure that he has not seen a reverse spinning meter.
 
The bill for April was an empty one with all lines x:ed over, not even listing the 17 units we had used so I was not surprised yesterday when I found that they had replaced the meter.

 

[KannikaP]

Our meter is usually read on 17th of each month. PEA were giving discount if the usage was less than 300 units per month.

A couple of months ago my consumption was 296 on the morning of the 17th, but they did not read it until 18th, so over 300 we went, hence no discount. Boo hoo.

[Old Croc]

How much did the solar system cost, and how long will it take to pay for itself with reduced PEA bills?

[KhunLA]

Where we are, all new construction gets digital meters.   Got ours Aug 2022, about 2 weeks after the temp building meter from the main road was replaced with a temp meter on the new pole next to the house.   So they didn't really have a chance to notice any usage drop since solar was installed a couple days after the temp meter was installed on the pole.

 

8 newer houses across the main road, and a few more locally also got new digital meters.   Eventually all will be replaced, whether having solar (lower bills noticed) or not, IMHO

[lom]

10 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

How much did the solar system cost, and how long will it take to pay for itself with reduced PEA bills?

32 x 445W Longi panels installed by company  200.000 baht

Do-it-myself:

Deye inverter imported from China  96.000 baht

40 KWh ESS battery imported from China 280.000 baht

Various install material  20.000 baht

 

Total 600.000 baht, reduced PEA bills of 90.000++ baht/year so 6.5 years until ROI.

[KhunLA]

11 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

How much did the solar system cost, and how long will it take to pay for itself with reduced PEA bills?

Ours cost ฿445k to be 'installed', and could easily be done for less, if DIY, and on the cheap if using different components.   We're basically off grid, but still conx for ฿27 a month.   They do know we have solar

 

Our solar usage this month will be 1000+kWh, though we average 600-800kWh most of the year.  A 1000kWh PEA bill is ~฿5000.  So earliest ROI if using that amount would be about 7.4 years.

 

BUT ... IF you factor in the additional savings of charging the EVs, with our excess solar, at ฿4600+ a month, then ROI could be as soon as 4 years.    EV driving 20k kms a year, saves ฿55.5 a year, with 91 petrol price of ฿38.88, (last time I calculated).

[digbeth]

I wonder if you ask to switch to TOU would they need to replace the meter again or can that be switched on at the meter

[Old Croc]

22 minutes ago, lom said:

32 x 445W Longi panels installed by company  200.000 baht

Do-it-myself:

Deye inverter imported from China  96.000 baht

40 KWh ESS battery imported from China 280.000 baht

Various install material  20.000 baht

 

Total 600.000 baht, reduced PEA bills of 90.000++ baht/year so 6.5 years until ROI.

Thankyou.

 

I guess with such a massive electricity use (90.000++ baht/year) it may be well worth it.  Our property (several buildings) pays PEA about 25-30k a year. Not worth buying an expensive system to replace it.

I wouldn't live long enough to get the advantage even without costs of R & M and upgrades.

We do have a number of solar powered lights around animal enclosures, ponds, etc

I am considering buying a solar pump to transfer water from ponds to fields. Any recommendations?

 

 

[brianthainess]

15 minutes ago, lom said:

32 x 445W Longi panels installed by company  200.000 baht

Do-it-myself:

Deye inverter imported from China  96.000 baht

40 KWh ESS battery imported from China 280.000 baht

Various install material  20.000 baht

 

Total 600.000 baht, reduced PEA bills of 90.000++ baht/year so 6.5 years until ROI.

How long before you need a new 280,000 Battery ? How long before it's efficiency starts to deteriorate ? Thanks.

[brianthainess]

A friend of mine who lives across a river and 2k up a crap road, was connected to his neighbor by agreement. To cut a long story short they have fallen out, he can not get power to his land anymore as any cables, posts, will be on 3 other peoples land and they will not help him. As a temporary measure he is running a 3.5 kilowatt generator, he can also not get town water (he has a bore) because of the same probs. even underground  cables/pipes must encroach, say 6'' into others land. Any suggestions ? Selling is not an option. 

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

How long before you need a new 280,000 Battery ? How long before it's efficiency starts to deteriorate ? Thanks.

LFP battery ESS (which ours are) will probably last way longer than me, and probably the wife also.   So not expecting to buy any to replace them.    If anything, will add the EV's battery pack to the solar system, after the rest of the car craps out, in maybe 20 years or more.

 

A possible 3000 cycles, of which we only use about 33% per night, so times that 20 years by 3.   Pretty safe to say, we should be fine and not need to replace in our life time, since I'm 69, and wife is 47.

[brianthainess]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

LFP battery ESS will probably last way longer than me, and probably the wife also.   So not expecting to buy any to replace them.    If anything, will add the EV's batter pack to the solar system, after the rest of the car craps out.

 

A possible 3000 cycles, of which we only use about 33% per night, so times that 20 years by 3.   Pretty safe to say, we should be fine and not need to replace in our life time, since I'm 69, and wife is 47.

The EV vehicles I looked at the Batteries were only guaranteed 10 yrs. There must be a reason for that. 

[Dante99]

9 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

he can not get power to his land anymore as any cables, posts, will be on 3 other peoples land and they will not help him.

what is his access route?  Over other people's land or public road?  That route is the normal one for the electrical lines and water.  But if he bought land without access then there in no helping him.

[KhunLA]

8 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

The EV vehicles I looked at the Batteries were only guaranteed 10 yrs. There must be a reason for that. 

How long are ICEV warranties, and how long do they last.  Warranty for 5 yrs maybe, and what's the reason for that? 

 

I have products 3-5-10-20X their warranty periods.

 

I have a dive watch 34 years old that had a 1 year warranty.  I have drone batteries 10+ yrs old that had 1 year or less warranty.   All my camera gear come with about 1 year warranty, and some are 6 years old, and yet to have to replace any lithium batteries that they came with.   All gear works the same as day 1.

 

Buy good, get good .... buy crap, get crap.

 

You guys are really being silly with all your 'what if' scenarios.   Give it rest and get a life.

[lom]

29 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

How long before you need a new 280,000 Battery ? How long before it's efficiency starts to deteriorate ? Thanks.

The battery is rated for  > 6000 full discharge + charge cycles , I don't do full discharges so I estimate that I do the equivalent of ~200/year.

With a pessimistic calculation they should last at least 10 years, optimistically  20 years.

 

My system is not only intended for saving on the PEA bill, I live along a road with frequent power cuts due to high-voltage fuse blown.

When worst it is a couple of cuts per day  for a week after which we are down to normal which is once per week or two week and this has been ongoing for more than 20 years.

Those cuts lasts for a couple of hours until the PEA fuse-swap-monkey has dragged his lazy legs out of bed.

Then we have the cruise ships anchoring on the sea cable from the mainland and that will surely happen again now with a new cruise ship terminal being built and a doubling of arriving ships.

 

So, in myself I trust, in PEA Samui I distrust. Self sufficiency in electricity and water (have own well) is a must here.

 

 

[brianthainess]

1 minute ago, Dante99 said:

what is his access route?  Over other people's land or public road?  That route is the normal one for the electrical lines and water.  But if he bought land without access then there in no helping him.

It is a public road some of it is concrete and he has been told he can not lay anything under the road, by PEA and the water company. I must admit I find this confusing I'm talking health/hygiene surly how can they deny him at least water.  

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, brianthainess said:

It is a public road some of it is concrete and he has been told he can not lay anything under the road, by PEA and the water company. I must admit I find this confusing I'm talking health/hygiene surly how can they deny him at least water.  

Obviously we're not getting the whole story.   Not surprised. 

 

If a public road, they will supply water & electric, though it may cost him.   And no, they will not run electric under ground to his land.   But we did, from the pole to the house.

[scorecard]

59 minutes ago, lom said:

32 x 445W Longi panels installed by company  200.000 baht

Do-it-myself:

Deye inverter imported from China  96.000 baht

40 KWh ESS battery imported from China 280.000 baht

Various install material  20.000 baht

 

Total 600.000 baht, reduced PEA bills of 90.000++ baht/year so 6.5 years until ROI.

Can you please share some photos of how you fixed the panels to your roof.

 

Asking because I have concerns about roof leaking after panels installed. Heard several interested farang talking on the same point:  want to install but frightened the roof will leak.

 

Thanks.

[brianthainess]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

Obviously we're not getting the whole story.   Not surprised. 

 

If a public road, they will supply water & electric, though it may cost him.   And no, they will not run electric under ground to his land.   But we did, from the pole to the house.

The road edge ends, and either side is private property, so where would the 'poles' go. I don't see why using the correct underground cable can't be used no matter how long it is. Same goes for water. They have started burying cables in many places in Thailand.

[JBChiangRai]

18 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

The EV vehicles I looked at the Batteries were only guaranteed 10 yrs. There must be a reason for that. 

 

ICE cars are only guaranteed 5 years, there must be a reason for that.

 

23 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

A friend of mine who lives across a river and 2k up a crap road, was connected to his neighbor by agreement. To cut a long story short they have fallen out, he can not get power to his land anymore as any cables, posts, will be on 3 other peoples land and they will not help him. As a temporary measure he is running a 3.5 kilowatt generator, he can also not get town water (he has a bore) because of the same probs. even underground  cables/pipes must encroach, say 6'' into others land. Any suggestions ? Selling is not an option. 

 

You are allowed both access and to lay utilities across neighbours land.  They cannot prevent you.

 

However, it is not free, you have to leave the land in the same state so cables & pipes need to be laid underground and they have a right to charge you once, annually or both, or even force you to buy the land you have used, and if you have used only 15cm, I am not sure about this, but they may be able to force you to buy 3m either side.

 

Section 1349 of the Civil and Commercial Code governs the Thai legal right to a “right of way.” Under this section, the owner of a piece of landlocked property with no access to a public road may pass over a surrounding land to reach a public road. The place and manner of the pass over must cause as little damage as possible and the person creating the passage must compensate the landowner for any damage that occurred. The compensations can be made through annual payments.

See also the Servitudes in Thailand Law here.

The legal right to a “right of way” is a blunt instrument that may generate more problems with neighbors than it solves. Most people do not like using the law to force a passage through their neighbor’s land. There can be issues as to whether the passage minimizes the damage and the amount of compensation. In addition, there may be general animosity created by forcing a path through the neighbor’s property.

[Dante99]

7 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

It is a public road some of it is concrete and he has been told he can not lay anything under the road, by PEA and the water company. I must admit I find this confusing I'm talking health/hygiene surly how can they deny him at least water.  

Sounds right, nothing under the road, it is always to the side of the road.  And he can not do it because he does not own any easements,  the electric company and perhaps the village would be the easement owners.

 

They have no obligation to provide water(and you have not said they ever did so), many people are not connected to any public water source.  You are very confused about who is responsible for health and hygiene.

 

 

3 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

I don't see why using the correct underground cable can't be used no matter how long it is. Same goes for water. They have started burying cables in many places in Thailand.

Underground is expensive and if they let him do it then how many others are going to come along wanting to tear up the road to do it.  Just makes no sense in rural settings.  But feel free to pursue your impractical solutions that nobody else will accept.

[lom]

20 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Can you please share some photos of how you fixed the panels to your roof

No photos, company I bought the panels from did the install, I'm too old to enter the roof.

Roof was once covered by leaf tiles (temple type tiles) so it has 1"x1" horizontal metal beams every 10 cm from top to bottom, the tiles were replaced by OSB board and shingle a few years ago. 

The guys mounting the panels understood the 10 cm distance between the beams and screwed solar panel mounting rails through OSB board into the beams.  I've been up in the attic a couple of times to check for leaks and haven't  seen any.

[Dante99]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You are allowed both access and to lay utilities across neighbours land.  They cannot prevent you.

Why can they not tell him to use the existing public road for access?  I think you are mistaken.  And you are quoting Code/Law that does not apply, because he does have access.

[UWEB]

1 hour ago, digbeth said:

I wonder if you ask to switch to TOU would they need to replace the meter again or can that be switched on at the meter

You will get a TOU Meter installed, complete different to the normal 1 phase Meters.

[impulse]

Does the shiny digital meter phone home, or do they still need to read it the old fashioned way?

 

 

 

[lom]

20 minutes ago, impulse said:

Does the shiny digital meter phone home, or do they still need to read it the old fashioned way?

I don't know what this particular one do but I found the original Chines mfgr when googling for a users manual of it.

Mfgr specifies that it can be fitted with one or more different type of interfaces as 433MHz RF, optical. wifi, mobile broadband, modbus. rs-485 among others.

Mine have what looks like an infrared diod in its round window.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, lom said:

No photos, company I bought the panels from did the install, I'm too old to enter the roof.

Roof was once covered by leaf tiles (temple type tiles) so it has 1"x1" horizontal metal beams every 10 cm from top to bottom, the tiles were replaced by OSB board and shingle a few years ago. 

The guys mounting the panels understood the 10 cm distance between the beams and screwed solar panel mounting rails through OSB board into the beams.  I've been up in the attic a couple of times to check for leaks and haven't  seen any.

 

Thank you.

[Bandersnatch]

4 hours ago, lom said:

I've been wondering for some time when someone at PEA will react to our drastically reduced power consumption since end of May last year when I first started to use solar power.

 

We have always had our meter read in the morning of the 20th during the 22 years we have lived here and the only exception to that has been them reading it one day earlier if the 20th was a public holiday.
That changed in February when they came the 19th even though the 20th wasn't a holiday and then in March they came even earlier, the 18th. 🙂 so I suspected that something was in the doing.

I have not exported much to the grid this year, only around 20 units/month but not close to the dates the meter reader has been here so I'm quite sure that he has not seen a reverse spinning meter.
 
The bill for April was an empty one with all lines x:ed over, not even listing the 17 units we had used so I was not surprised yesterday when I found that they had replaced the meter.

 

 

Your shiny digital meter sure is pretty, but I still prefer mine. I happened to be walking the dogs when a new meter reading guy arrived at the meter post this month  - he looked pretty confused, looking at the post then at the house and then back at the post

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

4 hours ago, lom said:

reduced PEA bills of 90.000++ baht/year

 

How many Grow Lights do you have connected to your batteries, and formerly to the grid?

 

 

[Woof999]

5 hours ago, Old Croc said:

How much did the solar system cost, and how long will it take to pay for itself with reduced PEA bills?

 

For me, the monetary ROI on solar is only one of the considerations. I'll be installing solar because the quality of power delivered in parts of Thailand is very low (voltage fluctuations, power cuts etc.) Damage to electronic items and the knowledge of no (or at least greatly reduced) days without power should also be factored.

 

Admittedly those might not be factors for others.