Trump Criticizes Biden's Stance on Israeli Weapons

[Hanaguma]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I guess you believe that it's arrogant and belittling for the US to tell Ukraine what it needs, too? Maybe American should just offer its allies a budget number and let them go shopping in its arsenal?

As for the IDF knows what it's doing. Really?

 

Hamas is returning to power in northern Gaza, IDF colonel says
IDF Col. Hezi Nachman said that there are hundreds of thousands of people in northern Gaza and Hamas rule of the area is returning.

Hamas is returning to power in northern Gaza, IDF Col. (res.) Hezi Nachman said in an interview with 103FM Tuesday morning, adding that the Israeli military isn't doing enough to stop it.

Speaking to Ben Caspit and Yinon Magal, Nachman, the former head of the Menashe Brigade, was discussing a letter to the war cabinet he and several other IDF commanders signed calling on Gazans not to be allowed to return home in the North until the hostages come home.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786771

 

Wasting troops’ hard-fought gains, Israel is taking time it doesn’t have in Gaza

Seven months after it carried out the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, Hamas is still very much alive and kicking.

It has reportedly reasserted significant civil control in Gaza cities troops swept through and then left. In some areas, Hamas fighters have resumed their rocket fire, including a recent attack on Sderot and the deadly strike on Israel Defense Forces infantrymen near Kerem Shalom on Sunday.

Not only is Hamas surviving, it looks increasingly plucky about its chances to guarantee its return to power

.https://www.timesofisrael.com/wasting-troops-hard-fought-gains-israel-is-taking-time-it-doesnt-have-in-gaza/

 

TBH I don't see much of a parallel with Ukraine, it is irrelevant to the situation in Gaza. 

 

As for the IDF, I would say that they are more than competent. They have beaten off several large scale attacks from numerous opponents since 1948.  Most people with any military experience or knowledge would agree. Their special forces are feared by terrorists worldwide, and rightly so. 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

TBH I don't see much of a parallel with Ukraine, it is irrelevant to the situation in Gaza. 

 

As for the IDF, I would say that they are more than competent. They have beaten off several large scale attacks from numerous opponents since 1948.  Most people with any military experience or knowledge would agree. Their special forces are feared by terrorists worldwide, and rightly so. 

Even if, despite the current evidence, the IDF's competency was perfect, that doesn't make it inconsistent with unnecessary brutality. If the US judges that what the IDF needs to win means too high a cost in innocent lives, it has every right, in fact a duty, not to give them what they want.

[pomchop]

Not a simple situation.  Easy to sit on sidelines and criticize Biden and no matter what he does armchair quarterbacks will blame it on him.  He is not the first and won't likely be the last POTUS that has been unable to bring any lasting peace to people who have hated each other for centuries.  

 

Republicans blocked aid to Israel, Ukraine and Taipei for months all for political reasons so spare me the outrage.  Just as they have blocked the bipartisan legislation that was written and approved by repubs and dems after months of negotiations in an  attempt to fix the immigration problems.  But nowthey  go on camera every chance to criticize doing nothing even though it was all set to go until dear leader instructed his maga morons to vote against it as if the border improved it would be a win for biden.

 

I have no idea how to unravel the entire middle east mess and i am not alone.  If it were easy it would have been done decades ago as many have tried and it is still a giant mess.

 

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

And of course the US is not cutting off Israel completely, that would be madness. 

It's not even cutting off Israel mostly, is it?

[Bkk Brian]

Some interesting thoughts here...........

 

Joe Biden's decision to halt supply of arms to Israel if Rafah is invaded could come back to haunt him

https://news.sky.com/story/joe-bidens-decision-to-halt-supply-of-arms-to-israel-if-rafah-is-invaded-could-come-back-to-haunt-him-13132463

[Eric Loh]

Netanyahu vowed to eliminate Hamas once for all. Can Hamas be completely eliminated? I don't think so. Israel's compaign may degrade Hamas's capabilities but defeating its ideology is highly impossible without a political solution. Biden's withholding the weapons aid is a red-line warning to Israel  but will not enough to stop the war. Netanyahu has stated he will continue the war even if they have to stand alone.

 

Trump will have to share blames for the tension in the middle-east. His formal recognition of Jerusalem as the capital and moving the American embassy has touched a raw nerve among Arabs and Muslims in general and Palestinians in particular. Trump has raised tension in the middle east by his emergency declaration to sell arms to SA and UAE in spite of dissaproval by both Chambers. His withdrawing of Iran Nuclear deal amplified widespread anger in Iran and cut off an important communication line. Hamas gets their support from Iran in fundings,weapons, training and politically. This bold Hamas attack on Oct 7 has got Iran's finger prints all over it. Middle-east will continue to be a powder keg and wars will not solve the problem. 

[spidermike007]

Trump has no moral compass, so the slaughter of innocent women and children mean nothing to him. Biden is finally showing some judgment for holding back US support and he deserves credit for that. 

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, pomchop said:

Not a simple situation.  Easy to sit on sidelines and criticize Biden and no matter what he does armchair quarterbacks will blame it on him.  He is not the first and won't likely be the last POTUS that has been unable to bring any lasting peace to people who have hated each other for centuries.  

 

Republicans blocked aid to Israel, Ukraine and Taipei for months all for political reasons so spare me the outrage.  Just as they have blocked the bipartisan legislation that was written and approved by repubs and dems after months of negotiations in an  attempt to fix the immigration problems.  But nowthey  go on camera every chance to criticize doing nothing even though it was all set to go until dear leader instructed his maga morons to vote against it as if the border improved it would be a win for biden.

 

I have no idea how to unravel the entire middle east mess and i am not alone.  If it were easy it would have been done decades ago as many have tried and it is still a giant mess.

 

 

A bit off topic, but the bill you reference was the problem. It was a classic omnibus bill, with many disparate parts shoehorned into one big mess. Why not simply vote separately on Taiwan, Ukraine, and Israel for aid? No reason to put them together except craven political manoeuvering. 

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Netanyahu vowed to eliminate Hamas once for all. Can Hamas be completely eliminated? I don't think so. Israel's compaign may degrade Hamas's capabilities but defeating its ideology is highly impossible without a political solution. Biden's withholding the weapons aid is a red-line warning to Israel  but will not enough to stop the war. Netanyahu has stated he will continue the war even if they have to stand alone.

 

Trump will have to share blames for the tension in the middle-east. His formal recognition of Jerusalem as the capital and moving the American embassy has touched a raw nerve among Arabs and Muslims in general and Palestinians in particular. Trump has raised tension in the middle east by his emergency declaration to sell arms to SA and UAE in spite of dissaproval by both Chambers. His withdrawing of Iran Nuclear deal amplified widespread anger in Iran and cut off an important communication line. Hamas gets their support from Iran in fundings,weapons, training and politically. This bold Hamas attack on Oct 7 has got Iran's finger prints all over it. Middle-east will continue to be a powder keg and wars will not solve the problem. 

Step one of eliminating Hamas is to kill them. Step two is to rebuild Gaza as a place with a vibrant economy, and where human rights and dignity are respected. Step three is to eliminate the hideous anti-semitic propaganda that is used in Gazan schools, which poisons the minds of young Gazans.  A bit like in Nazi Germany after WW2- a de-nazification program there was very successful. No reason to think a de-hamasification program in Gaza would fail. 

[Presto]

3 hours ago, pomchop said:

Not a simple situation.  Easy to sit on sidelines and criticize Biden and no matter what he does armchair quarterbacks will blame it on him.  He is not the first and won't likely be the last POTUS that has been unable to bring any lasting peace to people who have hated each other for centuries.  

 

Republicans blocked aid to Israel, Ukraine and Taipei for months all for political reasons so spare me the outrage.  Just as they have blocked the bipartisan legislation that was written and approved by repubs and dems after months of negotiations in an  attempt to fix the immigration problems.  But nowthey  go on camera every chance to criticize doing nothing even though it was all set to go until dear leader instructed his maga morons to vote against it as if the border improved it would be a win for biden.

 

I have no idea how to unravel the entire middle east mess and i am not alone.  If it were easy it would have been done decades ago as many have tried and it is still a giant mess.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the tens of thousands of civilian deaths, half of them children, with the help of Biden provided bombs, will not help in clearing that mess.

Nor does his willful ignoring of the ethnic cleansing in the West Bank.

This pitiful action of blocking a shipment, seven months into this war, can not erase what has been done.

Like everything with Biden, he's so excruciatingly slow, and its too little too late.

Or is this a weak attempt at gaining back votes he has already lost?

Edited May 10 by Presto

[Danderman123]

I guess Trump has written off the Muslim vote.

[retarius]

Wake up Trump, there is a glaring big hole in your policies that will cost you in the election. Your support for Israel in spite of the many atrocities Israel has committed has placed you on the wrong side of history. I certainly won;t be turning out to vote for someone who ignores facts and fawns on Israel. 

[riclag]

Its a war ! It was started by a terrorist organization, that governs Gaza.Hamas is funded by a host of evil actors & Govt’s.

Under Trump there were no wars.

Under biden , the world is upside down.🙃 

 

A Hamas spokesperson told the BBCthe group received direct support from Iran to conduct its attack. The Wall Street Journal reported that Iranian security officials helped plan and execute the assault.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/oct/09/the-us-freed-6-billion-in-iranian-money-did-it/

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1L923C/

 

 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

Its a war ! It was started by a terrorist organization, that governs Gaza.Hamas is funded by a host of evil actors & Govt’s.

Under Trump there were no wars.

Under biden , the world is upside down.🙃 

 

A Hamas spokesperson told the BBCthe group received direct support from Iran to conduct its attack. The Wall Street Journal reported that Iranian security officials helped plan and execute the assault.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/oct/09/the-us-freed-6-billion-in-iranian-money-did-it/

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1L923C/

 

 

Here's a an article from the wall st journal 3 days later. It contradicts their initial report.

Iran Knew Hamas Was Planning Attacks, but Not Timing or Scale, U.S. Says
Tehran’s leaders were surprised, according to U.S. intelligence

Tehran likely knew Hamas was planning operations against Israel but didn’t know the precise timing or scope of the surprise attack the group mounted last week, according to a preliminary unclassified assessment by U.S. intelligence agencies. 

The judgment by the American intelligence community represents an initial effort to determine what role Iran might have played in an attack that has sent shock waves through the region. 

The assessment also notes that U.S. intelligence agencies haven’t reached a definitive conclusion and will be looking in coming weeks at whether some in the regime might have had knowledge of what was being planned or helped direct the attacks. 

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-knew-hamas-was-planning-attacks-but-not-timing-or-scale-u-s-says-d8c669f1

[billd766]

On 5/10/2024 at 7:52 AM, herfiehandbag said:

Trump is making political capital out of Biden stumbling in.

 

Many in "the West" have long been suspect of Americas tendency to abandon it's allies if politically expedient. There is no shortage of precedents. Biden's fumbling incoherent moves to limit weapons supplied to Israel are not entirely unexpected.

 

Biden is a fool. Trump is climbing on a bandwagon.

If the former president (Trump), is lambasting the current President (Joe Biden), then the current legally elected President (Joe Biden) is doing the right and proper thing.

[Roo Island]

Who doesn't Trump criticize? Right. MTG, Gaetz, Hannity, Carlson, and assorted other nutters...

[riclag]

2014 quote from then VP biden.

What a difference from then to now!

As President he lobbied congress for aid  ,after receiving it ,he and his administration make it conditional .

He is siding with the terrorist Hamas

“It’s overwhelmingly in the self-interest of the United States of America to have a secure, democratic friend, a strategic partner like Israel.  

Israel today is the strongest nation in the Middle East.  But it bothers me sometimes -- I remember when I first got here as a kid, a 29-year-old kid, Israel was very much looked upon by the rest of the world as being somewhat fragile, sitting on the banks of the Mediterranean with millions of Arabs looking at them and wanting to see them gone, et cetera”. 
 

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/12/07/remarks-vice-president-joe-biden-2014-saban-forum

[Neeranam]

On 5/10/2024 at 9:43 AM, placeholder said:

A terrorist organization that was supported by Israel.

Really? 

What makes me is that the USA paid over $1 billion to build the best air defence systems in the world. This was shown recently when the Israelis stopped 99% of over 300 high tech missiles and drones that Iran fired. 

However, they couldn't stop a few guys on motorised parachutes pick up trucks and bicycles. 

They immediately used this as an excuse to indicriminantly bomb their neighbours, something they have been wanting to do for years. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

23 hours ago, billd766 said:

If the former president (Trump), is lambasting the current President (Joe Biden), then the current legally elected President (Joe Biden) is doing the right and proper thing.

Surely you don't think Biden sending billions of dollars in bombs is the proper thing? 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Really? 

What makes me is that the USA paid over $1 billion to build the best air defence systems in the world. This was shown recently when the Israelis stopped 99% of over 300 high tech missiles and drones that Iran fired. 

However, they couldn't stop a few guys on motorised parachutes pick up trucks and bicycles. 

They immediately used this as an excuse to indicriminantly bomb their neighbours, something they have been wanting to do for years. 

 

But the dome did not stop 99% of missiles, the majority were stopped by a coalition of the US, UK, Saudi (providing intelligence, Jordan and of course the Israeli air force. 

[Nick Carter icp]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Really? 

What makes me is that the USA paid over $1 billion to build the best air defence systems in the world. This was shown recently when the Israelis stopped 99% of over 300 high tech missiles and drones that Iran fired. 

However, they couldn't stop a few guys on motorised parachutes pick up trucks and bicycles. 

They immediately used this as an excuse to indicriminantly bomb their neighbours, something they have been wanting to do for years. 

 

 

   That best air defence system was developed and paid for by Israel , the USA pays for its upkeep, supplying the missiles to shoot down Hamas missiles .

   Would be better if Hamas stopped firing missiles at Israel , then there would be no need for USA money to be spent stopping those missiles

[amexpat]

On 5/10/2024 at 8:19 AM, Hanaguma said:

You know, perhaps the ISRAELIS know better what they need to successfully defeat Hamas than Biden. The sum total of his military experience consists of avoiding service in Vietnam.

Did Biden have bone spurs too?  

[riclag]

58 minutes ago, riclag said:

 

2014 quote from then VP biden.

What a difference from then to now!

As President he lobbied congress for aid  ,after receiving it ,he and his administration make it conditional .

He is siding with the terrorist Hamas

“It’s overwhelmingly in the self-interest of the United States of America to have a secure, democratic friend, a strategic partner like Israel.  

Israel today is the strongest nation in the Middle East.  But it bothers me sometimes -- I remember when I first got here as a kid, a 29-year-old kid, Israel was very much looked upon by the rest of the world as being somewhat fragile, sitting on the banks of the Mediterranean with millions of Arabs looking at them and wanting to see them gone, et cetera”. 
 

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/12/07/remarks-vice-president-joe-biden-2014-saban-forum

Quid quo pro  , impeachment .

 

https://nypost.com/2024/05/09/us-news/house-gop-drafting-biden-impeachment-articles-over-israel-aid-cutoff-threat/

 

more from a 2014 speech!

The difference now Israel is trying to kill hamas terrorist hell bent on destroying Israel still.

Imagine what influence these jihadist dems would have if they had a huge voting base in my country.

“And it requires uncommon courage.  And the uncommon courage is that displayed by the people of Israel.  From the outset, they’ve lived under siege -- from the outset.  And more recently, they’ve lived in daily defiance of rockets, terrorist tunnels, unconscionable acts of terrorism like this month’s attack -- last month’s attack on a synagogue that took the lives of Jews at prayers, including three Americans, as well as a brave Israeli police officer.”

[Hanaguma]

18 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Did Biden have bone spurs too?  

No, he got 5 deferments for being a student (similar to the bad orange man) and his final deferment was for asthma he apparently suffered as a child, in spite of being a lifeguard and star athlete.  A similar dodge to Trump, many guys at the time did the same. 

[G_Money]

Hamas started the war and Israel will finish it hopefully by completely exterminating Hamas.

 

Hamas being the coward terrorist organization they are will continue to use the Palestinian people as human shields.  Sad but true.

 

Thank me later.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

 

2014 quote from then VP biden.

What a difference from then to now!

As President he lobbied congress for aid  ,after receiving it ,he and his administration make it conditional .

He is siding with the terrorist Hamas

“It’s overwhelmingly in the self-interest of the United States of America to have a secure, democratic friend, a strategic partner like Israel.  

Israel today is the strongest nation in the Middle East.  But it bothers me sometimes -- I remember when I first got here as a kid, a 29-year-old kid, Israel was very much looked upon by the rest of the world as being somewhat fragile, sitting on the banks of the Mediterranean with millions of Arabs looking at them and wanting to see them gone, et cetera”. 
 

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/12/07/remarks-vice-president-joe-biden-2014-saban-forum

So people are not allowed to change their minds as they grow older, learn more and get more experience, according to you.

 

What people said, did and thought 10 years ago, was what they said, did and thought 10 years ago, and has little relevance 10 years later.

[Bkk Brian]

Cameron, on the button. Two hours after Bidens announcement on weapons Hamas left Cairo and the hostage deal

 

"🇬🇧 Foreign Secretary @David_Cameron rebuffs political pressure to abandon Israel in the fight to destroy Hamas and free the hostages: An arms embargo on Israel would "strengthen Hamas, weaken Israel, and make a hostage deal less likely."

 

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 5/10/2024 at 8:28 AM, Bkk Brian said:

Its not just Trump and republicans fuming at this:

 

Republicans -- and even some Democrats -- are now pouncing on Biden's new warning to Israel that the U.S. will withhold weapons 

House Speaker Mike Johnson, angry that top Republicans weren't informed beforehand, slammed Biden's decision as a "senior moment." 

What is does do is tell Hamas to move all their troops and supplies to Rafah. Perhaps this is not just a 'senior moment', but it is a very clever plan worthy of Baldrick. Once all the Hamas terrorists are in Rafah, Biden will recant and state he didn't mean it, and Israel then levels the place 🙂 

  

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 5/10/2024 at 10:49 AM, pomchop said:

Not a simple situation.  Easy to sit on sidelines and criticize Biden and no matter what he does armchair quarterbacks will blame it on him.  He is not the first and won't likely be the last POTUS that has been unable to bring any lasting peace to people who have hated each other for centuries.  

 

Republicans blocked aid to Israel, Ukraine and Taipei for months all for political reasons so spare me the outrage.  Just as they have blocked the bipartisan legislation that was written and approved by repubs and dems after months of negotiations in an  attempt to fix the immigration problems.  But nowthey  go on camera every chance to criticize doing nothing even though it was all set to go until dear leader instructed his maga morons to vote against it as if the border improved it would be a win for biden.

 

I have no idea how to unravel the entire middle east mess and i am not alone.  If it were easy it would have been done decades ago as many have tried and it is still a giant mess.

The solution is easy - but it would be a breach of human rights. Then again, it worked for Japan so maybe it is worth doing it again. Just speculating philosophically - not saying it should be done. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 5/10/2024 at 11:18 AM, Eric Loh said:

Netanyahu vowed to eliminate Hamas once for all. Can Hamas be completely eliminated? I don't think so. Israel's compaign may degrade Hamas's capabilities but defeating its ideology is highly impossible without a political solution.

I disagree with this statement. History shows that there was only one solution to the Nazi problem, and it did not involve a 'political solution'.  Hamas and the Nazis have a lot in common - they are murderous inhumane filth and need to be removed from the fact of the earth.  No Hamas, like the Nazis, can never be fully destroyed, but several decades of political appeasements and deals has failed and that is why the time for war is here right now. 

All Hamas has to do is to do to stop the killing of civilians is to do what the Nazis did after most of them were killed - surrender - and face the consequences of their actions in a Global Criminal Court (now the UN).