Thailand Faces Economic Question: China and EV Cars

[vinny41]

20 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

There is not much Srettha can do if the Chinese EV manufacturers flood a shrinking domestic Thai market with cheap EVs.

Don't Japanese nationals already get 90 days visa except on arrival? This seems a very insignificant gesture. 

 

Meanwhile, the Japanese leader asked if Thailand could boost travel convenience by offering Japanese investors visa-free entry.

it seems the visa free entry is already in place

Thailand approves 30-day visa exemption for Japanese businesspeople

https://thailand.go.th/issue-focus-detail/thailand-approves-30-day-visa-exemption-for-japanese-businesspeople

I guess doing business attending meetings, signing contracts on a tourist visa is not a wise thing do to

[WDSmart]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

Thanks! These look perfect for me, and some of them in the images are shown with right-hand drive. I'll check them out! 

 

I already send you the link to the Thai Website  - why you didn’t bother to click the link?

 

https://www.wulingthai.com/

I did! That's why I thanked you... 

[Bandersnatch]

8 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I did! That's why I thanked you... 

 

No you asked if anybody else had any suggestions

 

[WDSmart]

19 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

No you asked if anybody else had any suggestions

 

Okay, I didn't click on the link in your first reply because below it, you included a photo of a kind of car I wasn't looking for. 
 

If you can stretch to ฿500,000 I would recommend the Neta V

 

So, I assumed the link was to a car like that.

Anyway, I've clicked on the link in your second post and, like I said, I think this one is exactly what I've been looking for - the Wuling Air EV.

Thanks for posting the link again.

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I  want a very small mini-EV. None of these are that.

I don't recommend you get a Dacia Spring made by Dongfeng.

 

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I don't recommend you get a Dacia Spring made by Dongfeng.

 

Congrats.

As you are the man with the news, do you know how it started? Any context at all?

And wondering why two people just casually stroll by without even looking at it. 

Oh, and I wouldn't buy a Lamborghini Aventador either as it might catch fire too.
 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

As you are the man with the news, do you know how it started? Any context at all?

https://insideevs.com/news/667342/dacia-spring-completely-destroyed-alleged-battery-fire-romania/#:~:text=The owner claims he's got,battery pack underneath the car.&text=A Dacia Spring electric city,involving the Chinese-built EV.

[Andrew Dwyer]

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Congrats.

As you are the man with the news, do you know how it started? Any context at all?

And wondering why two people just casually stroll by without even looking at it. 

Oh, and I wouldn't buy a Lamborghini Aventador either as it might catch fire too.
 

 

What about a little quiz ?

 

This famous car ended up like this after an electrical fault in the engine bay after a MOT back in the 80’s .

 

 

It took 6 months and £12,000 (a princely sum back in the 80’s) to restore it back to its original state.

 

Why was it famous ?

[SingAPorn]

Thai economy is going to face a monumental hit on the face with all the retiree foreigners that will start to leave Thailand due to the forthcomming tax laws that will add up to all the immigration hassles.

[Madgee]

1 minute ago, SingAPorn said:

Thai economy is going to face a monumental hit on the face with all the retiree foreigners that will start to leave Thailand due to the forthcomming tax laws that will add up to all the immigration hassles.

Oh please! You honestly think that that retirees make that much difference to the Thai economy as a whole. You're having a laff!

The only ones that I know that seem to be concerned are Americans that have undeclared share dividends paid direct into Thailand. 

[josephbloggs]

21 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

https://insideevs.com/news/667342/dacia-spring-completely-destroyed-alleged-battery-fire-romania/#:~:text=The owner claims he's got,battery pack underneath the car.&text=A Dacia Spring electric city,involving the Chinese-built EV.

That's a completely different news story. I am talking about the fire that you posted.

[ExpatOilWorker]

27 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

That's a completely different news story. I am talking about the fire that you posted.

Sorry about that, my apologies. 

 

You might have to deploy some Google translate, but I will throw another video as a bonus.

https://autolatest.ro/stiri/incendiu-devastator-al-unei-masini-dacia-spring-mai-avea-bateria-garantie-trebuie-interzis-accesul-masinilor-electrice-in-parcarile-subterane/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1DISpa9YC21Gi4kNZ-7UvMs7PU9bJmQtV8RnDKjjbL_TI34nltY0R5yjY_aem_AcZXCKt8IC_5EOLrR0HKSnzAb2DqGFpI3Zt0Zi9Fi9o8e3dr4piqhGy2AKANs_FypNID4jiYh3quR9b5P9EwyUle

 

[JBChiangRai]

10 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Sorry about that, my apologies. 

 

You might have to deploy some Google translate, but I will throw another video as a bonus.

https://autolatest.ro/stiri/incendiu-devastator-al-unei-masini-dacia-spring-mai-avea-bateria-garantie-trebuie-interzis-accesul-masinilor-electrice-in-parcarile-subterane/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1DISpa9YC21Gi4kNZ-7UvMs7PU9bJmQtV8RnDKjjbL_TI34nltY0R5yjY_aem_AcZXCKt8IC_5EOLrR0HKSnzAb2DqGFpI3Zt0Zi9Fi9o8e3dr4piqhGy2AKANs_FypNID4jiYh3quR9b5P9EwyUle

 

There is really little point in posting anything about battery fires, it’s pretty clear the sample size is too small in Thailand and in the ROW the statistics are within normal expectations.  Early indicators for Thailand is that it’s no different.

 

It’s a non-issue.

[ExpatOilWorker]

19 hours ago, vinny41 said:

It looks like that Thailand has made the correct decision by supporting both ICE and EV manufacturing in Thailand

Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin has assured Japan’s PM Fumio Kishida that Thailand will not abandon Japanese makers of conventional vehicles during its transition to an electric-vehicle (EV) manufacturing hub.

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/policies/40032908

At the moment more needs to done to bring the EV supply chain on board in Thailand

As stated before majority of jobs and domestic added value is currently in existing ICE  manufacturing not EV

If the 30@30 dream should materialize, based on the 1.83 million vehicles produced in 2023, Thailand 🇹🇭 would either have to increase total vehicle production to 2.6 million (highly unlikely) or reduce ICE vehicle production to 1.28 million. Not much good news there for the Japanese producers.

 

Under its “30@30” policy, Thailand has issued a raft of incentives to boost EVs to 30% of total vehicle production by 2030.

[ExpatOilWorker]

48 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

There is really little point in posting anything about battery fires, it’s pretty clear the sample size is too small in Thailand and in the ROW the statistics are within normal expectations.  Early indicators for Thailand is that it’s no different.

 

It’s a non-issue.

You are both right and wrong. Statistically we are correctly on course to match Tesla's numbers and EVs are 10 times less likely to burn than ICE vehicles. So far so good 👍. 

But, when you live in a 500 units condo, where the first 8 floors are parking, 95% full of fueled up ICEV, then a single spontaneous EV could spell disaster. Current fire suppressing systems are simple overhead sprinkles, that will have no effect on an EV fire.

Time will tell, but I think we are in for a sad surprise. 

Most ICEs burn in a remote ditch where collateral damage is minimal. 

[JBChiangRai]

42 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You are both right and wrong. Statistically we are correctly on course to match Tesla's numbers and EVs are 10 times less likely to burn than ICE vehicles. So far so good 👍. 

But, when you live in a 500 units condo, where the first 8 floors are parking, 95% full of fueled up ICEV, then a single spontaneous EV could spell disaster. Current fire suppressing systems are simple overhead sprinkles, that will have no effect on an EV fire.

Time will tell, but I think we are in for a sad surprise. 

Most ICEs burn in a remote ditch where collateral damage is minimal. 

 

In terms of the danger in multistorey car parks, I agree with you.  But the answer is not to ban the technology we are moving forward to, every car park needs an EV fire blanket, I think that is the recommended approach but I may be wrong.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

If the 30@30 dream should materialize, based on the 1.83 million vehicles produced in 2023, Thailand 🇹🇭 would either have to increase total vehicle production to 2.6 million (highly unlikely) or reduce ICE vehicle production to 1.28 million. Not much good news there for the Japanese producers.

 

Under its “30@30” policy, Thailand has issued a raft of incentives to boost EVs to 30% of total vehicle production by 2030.

I think you should look at the 30@30” policy more as an ambition rather than set in stone, I am sure when the policy was written the economy was in a much better position than the current position and people when they are formulating such policy always look in a single direction of economy going upwards never building in factors that the economy may dip or go in the opposite direction 

In 2008 the UK  government announced a plan that every property in the country would have smart meter fitted by 2019 and these smart meter would be zero cost to the end user  and would save the end user huge savings Energy costs

when the policy was launched smart meter required 2g and 3g telecommunications networks ( 4g and 5g weren't available at the time ) Currently 2g and 3g telecommunications networks are being decommissioned and those services will no longer be available

As of December 2023 t’s no secret that the UK’s smart meter rollout has been challenging. With the original 2019 deadline passed, the latest figure for smart meter penetration stands at 57%

https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/smart-meters/with-the-new-energy-act-the-uk-smart-meter-rollout-is-at-a-technological-crunch-point/

Now if a Government can't deliver on a policy within a timeframe that adds zero cost to the end user

what are chances of success where a policy adds hundreds of thousand baht to the end user

People from the UK must remember when the  Government announced that Diesel was the cleaner  fuel of the future and were advising everyone to swap their petrol cars for diesel

Dash for diesel

Why officials in Labour government pushed 'dash for diesel'

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41985715

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

I am well aware this is from an anti-China source, so take it with a country size grain of salt, but electric leakage is a new flaw to EV. 

Have any of our EV owners gone over the car with a voltage tester?

 

[JBChiangRai]

Electrickery 

[sidneybear]

On 5/25/2024 at 7:18 AM, Henryford said:

Don't they look at what's happening in the USA and Europe. No one wants EVs. Why throw away the solid ICE industry they have now.

Exactly. The EV fad will pass, now people are realising how useless these expensive EVs are. Thailand should definitely ride this one out. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

14 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Electrickery 

Customer loyalty is just not part of the Chinese business plan, so they don't have to worry about trivial details like keeping their end users alive.

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 5/27/2024 at 9:09 AM, Bandersnatch said:

 

 

 

You could try putting “Wuling Thailand” into Google: 

 

https://www.wulingthai.com/

 

If you can stretch to ฿500,000 I would recommend the Neta V

 

 

 

Seen in the flesh.

 

[vinny41]

On 5/27/2024 at 6:52 AM, WDSmart said:

Thanks! These look perfect for me, and some of them in the images are shown with right-hand drive. I'll check them out! 

Another Wuling coming out next month suspect it might be not small enough for you 

https://autolifethailand.tv/wuling-binguo-ev-bev-coming-soon-thailand/

[MartinBangkok]

On 5/25/2024 at 10:30 AM, vinny41 said:

From The Thai economics point of view ICE vehicles made in Thailand  provide more jobs and generated more revenue than an EV made in Thailand as the local content i.e made in Thailand for a Toyota Hilux is 90% compared to an EV made in Thailand where local content is 30% majority of parts for EV's are imported in from China

The domestic value added (domestic value add) that Thailand will receive from the production of 1 EV car is much lower than the production of ICE cars due to having to rely on importing key parts from abroad. Meanwhile, in the original product group that Thailand can produce, it is likely that prices will have to be reduced in order to compete with Chinese entrepreneurs. Because Chinese companies can import directly from China at a much lower cost than Thailand. As a result, even if an EV car factory is established in Thailand, the benefits that Thailand will receive from car production will be less than in the past.

https://brandinside.asia/car24-layoff-2024/

You are saying 90% of a Toyota Hilux is made in Thailand? Bull<deleted>. Thailand is still a 1000 years from being able to make or produce a car engine or a transmission. And in a 1000 years if they succeed, everything will be made from blueprints from Japan (or other car makers around the world). In effect copies, and most likely substandard.

It's basically slave labour that is used in Thai factories to assemble! cars from countries that can actually produce cars.

[MartinBangkok]

On 5/25/2024 at 4:58 PM, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's not a case of Thailand makes ICE cars OR Thailand makes EV's.

 

Thailand has pushed hard to be a hub of auto manufacturing of ICE vehicles.  Nobody is suggesting those should close and Thailand instead switch to EV manufacturing.

 

Thailand has recognised that governments worldwide are moving away from ICE towards EV's and ultimately that ICE market will disappear. Thailand has said "We want some of that EV manufacturing, not only do we want some of that, we want ALL of that in Asia".  This is all happening alongside ICE manufacture.  Thailand has tied up the major Chinese EV brands to manufacture here.  It's too late for Vietnam, Cambodia et al to try and muscle in.

 

Do you not think that at some point, EV's will be taxed higher than they are currently?  I do.  And Thailand will have something to replace the disappearing ICE manufacturing.

 

 

 

The one thing about EV's is that they are most definitely not boring.  With 530 hp on tap and available instantaneously with 4WD and 0-100 acceleration of times under 4 seconds, they are tantalisingly exciting. 1.6M baht gets you a car that will show a BMW M5 or Benz C63s a clean pair of heels.  That 530 hp is there throughout the rev range, it's probably equivalent to a 650 hp petrol engine.

 

I do agree with you about the Tesla center screen.  Center screens are ok for infotainment but not for displaying speed and other important driver information. Indicators, wipers, lights etc should be in stalks as they are on every other mass produced car.

 

 

Absolutely spot on.  True all over the world, not just Thais.

And how much of your battery capacity is left after one sprint from 0-100 in 4 seconds? And what is the health/state of your battery after two/three of those sprints? And what is the level of know how of your local Thai-mecanic, lets call him Somchai, when you need a diagnostic of your cars electrical system and battery, and God forbid, an experts view on repairs..

[JBChiangRai]

27 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

And how much of your battery capacity is left after one sprint from 0-100 in 4 seconds? And what is the health/state of your battery after two/three of those sprints? And what is the level of know how of your local Thai-mecanic, lets call him Somchai, when you need a diagnostic of your cars electrical system and battery, and God forbid, an experts view on repairs..

Probably less than 1% used in a sprint as you described, I drive that way all the time, at the end of the sprint the power goes back into the battery when you push the brake pedal.

 

As for Somchai, his expertise on electric cars is probably akin to the blacksmith’s expertise with the first horseless carriages.  But why would you want to go there?

 

The blacksmith’s became garages and the same industry will happen with Somchai, but in the meantime I prefer the authorized dealer network, at least for the 8 years free servicing period so I don’t invalidate the 8 year warranty.

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

You are saying 90% of a Toyota Hilux is made in Thailand? Bull<deleted>. Thailand is still a 1000 years from being able to make or produce a car engine or a transmission. And in a 1000 years if they succeed, everything will be made from blueprints from Japan (or other car makers around the world). In effect copies, and most likely substandard.

It's basically slave labour that is used in Thai factories to assemble! cars from countries that can actually produce cars.

Clearly you need to improve your research more posting 

Here is what Toyota has to say on the subject

Soon we were exporting models built entirely in Thailand like the Hilux Vigo and the Fortuner. To date over 7 million IMV based vehicles have been built in Thailand with over 4 million units exported to 124 countries around the world. The IMV project also helped us create a new supply chain here in Thailand increasing our network of local suppliers by 41%, as the production of 2,000 parts were transferred from Japan to Thailand increasing total local content from 60% to 93%

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/38421226.html

Toyota Motor Thailand Co., Ltd. (TMT) is the wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota Motor Corporation in Thailand, established in 1962. In 1979, Toyota began making pressed body parts in Thailand. In 1989, TMT began manufacturing engines locally. TMT controls the manufacturing of Toyota cars in Thailand and they supply cars to various official dealers throughout Thailand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Thailand

 

[MartinBangkok]

21 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly you need to improve your research more posting 

Here is what Toyota has to say on the subject

Soon we were exporting models built entirely in Thailand like the Hilux Vigo and the Fortuner. To date over 7 million IMV based vehicles have been built in Thailand with over 4 million units exported to 124 countries around the world. The IMV project also helped us create a new supply chain here in Thailand increasing our network of local suppliers by 41%, as the production of 2,000 parts were transferred from Japan to Thailand increasing total local content from 60% to 93%

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/38421226.html

Toyota Motor Thailand Co., Ltd. (TMT) is the wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota Motor Corporation in Thailand, established in 1962. In 1979, Toyota began making pressed body parts in Thailand. In 1989, TMT began manufacturing engines locally. TMT controls the manufacturing of Toyota cars in Thailand and they supply cars to various official dealers throughout Thailand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Thailand

 

Yes, Japanese company producing japanese engines in a japanese owned factory.

Forgive me if I am missing something, but please tell me what Thailand contriutes to a new Toyota other than cheap labour?

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

You are saying 90% of a Toyota Hilux is made in Thailand? Bull<deleted>. Thailand is still a 1000 years from being able to make or produce a car engine or a transmission. And in a 1000 years if they succeed, everything will be made from blueprints from Japan (or other car makers around the world). In effect copies, and most likely substandard.

It's basically slave labour that is used in Thai factories to assemble! cars from countries that can actually produce cars.

 

2 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

Yes, Japanese company producing japanese engines in a japanese owned factory

Clearly your back tracking on your original post where you stated that 

"90% of a Toyota Hilux is made in Thailand? Bull<deleted>. Thailand is still a 1000 years from being able to make or produce a car engine or a transmission"

Everyone knows Toyota is a  Japanese company Engines produced in Thailand are Thai engines 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

Yes, Japanese company producing japanese engines in a japanese owned factory.

Forgive me if I am missing something, but please tell me what Thailand contriutes to a new Toyota other than cheap labour?

Your comments about cheap labour and slave labour your just making yourself look a fool

2024

Highest in 10 years! Toyota announces bonus payments for 8 months plus an additional 45,000 baht

It was announced for a total of 8 months and added an additional 45,000 baht and increased from the extra bonus money in 2023 paid in the amount of 7.5 months plus an extra 18,000 baht for the bonus money that Toyota announced for employees in the year. This and that This is a result of the business operating results in 2023 that passed.

https://www.matichon.co.th/economy/news_4485588

2023

Toyota gives out a bonus for 7.5 months plus an additional 38,000 baht

2022

The reporter further reported that Back in 2022, Toyota paid bonuses to employees at the same rate of 7.5 months , divided into 2 installments and adding another 34,000 baht  , with an additional 16,000 baht added to all employees. On the occasion of Toyota's 60th anniversary in the Thai market.

In total, in the past year 2022 , Toyota gave employees a bonus of 7.5 months plus 2 extra payments , totaling 50,000 baht.

https://www.prachachat.net/motoring/news-1248011