Israel Hamas War the Widening Middle East Conflict

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Israel Hamas War  the Widening  Middle East Conflict

 

• Latest developments and discussion of events in the Israel-Hamas War and the wider Middle East Conflict. Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source.
• All video content must be from a credible media source, and in English. Foreign languages, even with subtitles, are not permitted.
• Anyone found to be deliberately diverting or derailing discussion with off topic rants could have their posting ability removed.
• No name calling or inflammatory terms will be tolerated.
• This is a continuation of the previous three topics and can be used for general daily updates and discussion. This is not a topic for historical events.

 

Continuation from:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1321758-israel-is-at-war-general-discussion-pt3/

[Yellowtail]

I am trying to figure out how killing negotiators that refuse to negotiate is bad for negotiations, help me out here. 

[Will B Good]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I am trying to figure out how killing negotiators that refuse to negotiate is bad for negotiations, help me out here. 

 

 

Refusing to negotiate is part of the negotiations....?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Will B Good said:

Refusing to negotiate is part of the negotiations....?

Yes, but that was not the question. 

[Will B Good]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I am trying to figure out how killing negotiators that refuse to negotiate is bad for negotiations, help me out here. 

 

 

They can no longer be part of the negotiations?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Will B Good said:

They can no longer be part of the negotiations?

Yes, but again, that was not the question. 

[Will B Good]

Just now, Yellowtail said:

Yes, but again, that was not the question. 

 

How would it be bad?

 

If they are dead then they are no longer party to the negotiations.....they might have been on the verge of agreeing a cease fire?......and now it all starts again?

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

How would it be bad?

I don't think it is bad. 

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

If they are dead then they are no longer party to the negotiations.....

Except that they were refusing to negotiate, and only holding out for concessions that the other side is not willing to concede. 

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

...they might have been on the verge of agreeing a cease fire?......and now it all starts again?

It does not start over; it just continues with new negotiators that may be more willing to negotiate. 

 

 

[Captain Flack]

Reported posts and replies removed.

 

Rule 28. You will not make changes to messages quoted from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. Do not shorten any post in a way that alters the context of the original post. Do not change the formatting of the post you are quoting

 

[Bkk Brian]

Everyone waiting to see how strong this attack is going to be.

 

US urges citizens to leave Lebanon on 'any available ticket'

The US embassy in Beirut has urged its citizens to leave Lebanon on “any ticket available”, amid soaring tensions in the Middle East.
The advisory follows a similar warning from UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy, who said the regional situation “could deteriorate rapidly”.
Iran has vowed “severe” retaliation against Israel, which it blames for the death of Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran on Wednesday. His assassination came hours after Israel killed Hezbollah commander Fuad Shukr in Beirut.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c80xxeqel5po

[placeholder]

Killing of Hamas Leader Fuels More Tension Between Biden and Netanyahu

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel is pushing back against President Biden over American concerns about the assassination of the political leader of Hamas and Israel’s approach to cease-fire talks in the latest rift between the two allies since the war in Gaza began 10 months ago.

In what a U.S. official described as a heated conversation on Thursday, Mr. Netanyahu denied that Israel was an obstacle to a cease-fire agreement and rejected Mr. Biden’s contention that the killing of the Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh on Iranian soil could sabotage efforts to reach a deal halting hostilities and freeing hostages.

A senior Israeli government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive relations between the two countries, said in an interview that Mr. Netanyahu insisted he was not trying to block a cease-fire. 

https://archive.ph/4JF5t

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/03/us/politics/us-israel-hamas-assassination.html

Edited August 4 by placeholder

[placeholder]

In a way, you have to admire Netanyahu's assassination of Haniyeh in Iran given Biden's allegiance to Israel. It seems obvious that he's trying to draw the US into a war against Iran. And he may succeed.

 

The Middle East Is Inching Toward Another War

There is little doubt that Israel was behind the audacious assassination of Hamas’ hostage-deal negotiator and political head Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran on Wednesday. By deliberately maximizing Tehran’s embarrassment—Haniyeh was killed only hours after the inauguration of Iran’s new reformist President Masoud Pezeshkian—the Israeli government also maximized the likelihood of Iranian retaliation. That is—at least in the view of a former Deputy Head of the Israeli National Security Council—because Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wants to spark a larger war and drag the U.S. into it.

https://time.com/7006500/israel-iran-us-netanyahu-haniyeh/

 

It also helps the election chances of Israel's favorite ex-President.

[placeholder]

Here's a link to a fascinating article about Yahya Sinwar. And, no, it's in no way a defense for what he's done.

 

https://archive.ph/UyuHg

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/08/12/yahya-sinwar-profile-hamas-gaza-war-israel

[coolcarer]

Only one high ranker left on the elimination list of Hamas terrorists fior Israel. The elusive evil tunnel rat Sinwar. Some of the hostages met him when he visited them in the tunnels.

 

The hunt for Yahya Sinwar, Hamas’s last man standing
His high-ranking colleagues have been killed but the ‘cruel, cunning’ ideologue who masterminded the  October 7 attacks has disappeared into the tunnels beneath Gaza

Since October 7, he has disappeared into Hamas’s intricate network of tunnels, seeking to evade capture or death at the hands of Israeli forces. His name appears, like that of his slain compatriots, on arrest warrants awaiting approval by the International Criminal Court.

When he was jailed by Israel in 1988, it was not only for the killing of two Israeli soldiers but also of 12 Palestinians suspected of collaboration. In one case, Sinwar boasted to interrogators, he forced a man to bury his own brother alive, using only a spoon to move the soil. An intelligence assessment labelled him “cruel, authoritative, influential” and noted his “unusual abilities of endurance” and “ability to carry crowds”.

https://www.thetimes.com/world/israel-hamas-war/article/the-hunt-for-yahya-sinwar-hamass-last-man-standing-8c3n0g9j3

https://archive.ph/VJknx

[Patong2021]

15 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I am trying to figure out how killing negotiators that refuse to negotiate is bad for negotiations, help me out here. 

 

I offer that Haniyeh was not a negotiator other than in description for propaganda purposes. Western media such as BBC  have also called him a "moderate", despite his history of direct involvement in multiple violent and deadly actions.

 

The reliance on biased information by the the western media is one of the distressing aspects of this conflict. It highlights the removal and destruction of independent news media and journalism. 

[Yellowtail]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

Here's a link to a fascinating article about Yahya Sinwar. And, no, it's in no way a defense for what he's done.

 

https://archive.ph/UyuHg

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/08/12/yahya-sinwar-profile-hamas-gaza-war-israel

The left loves them some Hama...err Palestine. 

[placeholder]

Security chiefs said to plead with PM to take deal; he tells them they’re lousy negotiators; PMO denies report

Israel’s security chiefs reportedly urged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to utilize the momentum provided by strikes on terror chiefs to seize the opportunity for a hostage-ceasefire deal with Hamas at a top-level security meeting on Wednesday night.

Channel 12 claims Mossad chief David Barnea, who has been leading Israel’s negotiations on a deal, said at the meeting that there is a deal ready, and that Israel must take it.

But Netanyahu shouted down his security chiefs, banged on the table, and told them they were lousy negotiators, Channel 12 news reports.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/security-chiefs-said-to-plead-with-pm-to-take-deal-he-tells-them-theyre-lousy-negotiators-pmo-denies-report/

[Bkk Brian]

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

I offer that Haniyeh was not a negotiator other than in description for propaganda purposes. Western media such as BBC  have also called him a "moderate", despite his history of direct involvement in multiple violent and deadly actions.

 

The reliance on biased information by the the western media is one of the distressing aspects of this conflict. It highlights the removal and destruction of independent news media and journalism. 

Agreed, Hamas terrorist official Khalil al-Hayya, who is based in Qatar and has headed Hamas negotiators in indirect Gaza truce talks with Israel is tand has always been the top negotiator. Although we all know nothing happens without Sinwars say so and Sinwar is the reason the hostages were taken and the reason they have not been released since.

 

Sinwar has actually just turned down one of the picks for Haniyeh replacement. "Sinwar said to reject Khaled Mashal as new Hamas leader" The other contender for top pick is Khalil al-Hayya.

[Bkk Brian]

Huge smuggling tunnel found in the Philadelphi Corridor, the narrow strip of land between the Gaza and Egypt border. Why security there is so important.

 

IDF uncovers massive smuggling tunnel for vehicles on Gaza-Egypt border

Israel Defense Forces discovered a large tunnel that is big enough to allow vehicles to pass through on the border between Gaza and Egypt, officials said Sunday.

The 10-foot-tall tunnel was found last week on the so-called Philadelphi Route as IDF troops were in the area to search for tunnel routes that Hamas terrorists were believed to be using to smuggle arms.

The IDF said their troops have eliminated dozens of such tunnels in the area and will continue to uncover and destroy others that they may find.

https://nypost.com/2024/08/04/world-news/idf-uncovers-massive-smuggling-tunnel-for-vehicles-on-gaza-egypt-border

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/4/2024 at 3:35 PM, Will B Good said:

 

 

Refusing to negotiate is part of the negotiations....?

If not wanting a ceasefire is the strategy of one side it seems logical to kill the negotiators and then they can say "we wanted to negotiate a ceasefire, but they didn't turn up at the meeting".

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

I offer that Haniyeh was not a negotiator other than in description for propaganda purposes. Western media such as BBC  have also called him a "moderate", despite his history of direct involvement in multiple violent and deadly actions.

 

The reliance on biased information by the the western media is one of the distressing aspects of this conflict. It highlights the removal and destruction of independent news media and journalism. 

Perhaps he was a moderate compared to those that will take over from him. If israel wants to escalate the conflict to a real war they are taking the necessary actions to do so.

When it all goes wrong for israel sometime in the future, perhaps many years from now, they can look back on this conflict as the reason for that happening, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/4/2024 at 3:41 PM, Will B Good said:

 

How would it be bad?

 

If they are dead then they are no longer party to the negotiations.....they might have been on the verge of agreeing a cease fire?......and now it all starts again?

IMO the negotiations are a dead duck for now. If the protestors manage to get an election and the removal of netanyahu and his cabal from power they may resume. IMO it's not looking good for the survival prospects of any hostages still living.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the negotiations are a dead duck for now. If the protestors manage to get an election and the removal of netanyahu and his cabal from power they may resume. IMO it's not looking good for the survival prospects of any hostages still living.

So, if they can out Netanyahu. you think Israel will surrender? 

[placeholder]

Netanyahu’s Spat With Biden Echoes Dispute With Israel’s Security Chiefs

Senior leaders from Israel’s military and intelligence agencies have also privately grown frustrated with the prime minister for introducing new conditions to the fraught negotiations, according to two Israeli officials who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter.

For weeks, the security officials have privately complained that Mr. Netanyahu is holding up talks by, among other things, reintroducing a demand that Israel continues to operate checkpoints along a strategic highway in northern Gaza during any cease-fire. In May, Israel had softened its position on that point, raising hopes of a deal.

https://archive.ph/3Hpqi

[coolcarer]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the negotiations are a dead duck for now. If the protestors manage to get an election and the removal of netanyahu and his cabal from power they may resume. IMO it's not looking good for the survival prospects of any hostages still living.

They’ve been a dead duck as you put it since Sinwar broke the last deal inflate Nov/Dec. He has no intention of agreeing to a deal otherwise he would have done so months ago. 

 

Someone that knew Sinwar very well indeed believes Sinwar would be “willing to sacrifice even 100,000 Palestinians in order to ensure the survival of his rule.”

 

He saved the life of Hamas’s leader. Then they murdered his nephew

“I know the person who planned and conceived and initiated this criminal attack,” Bitton told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour. “I have known him since 1996 – not only him but the entire Hamas leadership in Gaza – and it was clear to me that this is what they were planning.”
Bitton spent years working as a dentist in Israel’s Nafha Prison. It was there he met “the person” – Yahya Sinwar, a Hamas militant convicted of murder who would go on to become the group’s leader in Gaza – saying he saved his life by helping diagnose a brain tumor.

“He is willing to pay with the lives of militants, Hamas members, civilians. He doesn’t care.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/20/middleeast/israeli-dentist-hamas-yahya-sinwar-intl/index.html

[Patong2021]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps he was a moderate compared to those that will take over from him. If israel wants to escalate the conflict to a real war they are taking the necessary actions to do so.

When it all goes wrong for israel sometime in the future, perhaps many years from now, they can look back on this conflict as the reason for that happening, IMO.

 

Real war? Seriously? It is a real war now as hundreds of IDF personnel have been KIA, and an estimated 20,000 Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other faction fighters have died. Hamas continues to fire its rockets from the Gaza "humanitarian zone", and  the IDF continues to return suppressing fire. The destruction is widespread. If that isn't a real war, then what is? 

[Bkk Brian]

Still a waiting game.

 

Biden briefed that Iran attack timing and details still unclear, U.S. officials say

Secretary of State Antony Blinken told his G7 counterpart on Sunday that Iran and Hezbollah could attack Israel as soon as the next 24-48 hours, Axios reported.

But in the meeting Biden and Harris had with the National Security Council in the White House Situation Room on Monday the assessment was more nuanced, U.S. officials said.
The officials said Biden and Harris were told U.S. intelligence expects a scenario involving two waves of attacks — one from Hezbollah and one from Iran and several of its other proxies.
But it was still unclear to U.S. intelligence who is going to attack first and what kind of attack they are are going to conduct, the officials said, one U.S. official said intelligence indicates the response by Iran and Hezbollah is still a "work in progress" and both are undecided about what exactly they want to do.

https://www.axios.com/2024/08/06/iran-attack-israel-biden-briefed-details

[novacova]

All this war mongering is dragging the world further into the abyss of darkness 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Another one bites the dust.

 

"man in charge of Gaza's economy was also in charge of increasing Hamas's weapons capabilities."

 

"IDF: Yesterday (Sunday), with the direction of IDF intelligence, the IAF eliminated Abed Al-Zeriei, a terrorist operative in the Manufacturing Department of Hamas' Military Wing, who also served as Hamas' Minister of Economy in the Gaza Strip.
 The Manufacturing Department operates to increase Hamas' weapons capabilities, including by exchanging information with other terrorist organizations across the Middle East. 
 Al-Zeriei had a significant role in directing Hamas' efforts to seize control of humanitarian aid entering the Gaza Strip and in managing Hamas-controlled markets. Furthermore, he was responsible for the distribution of fuel, gas, and funds for terrorist purposes."

 

https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1820466529042887093

 

[Bkk Brian]

The power hungry evil tunnel rat himself has been named the new leader. No change on hostage negotiations then as he's always been the one with the final say.

 

October 7 mastermind Yahya Sinwar chosen to replace Haniyeh as Hamas leader

The Hamas terror group on Tuesday named Yahya Sinwar as the new head of its “political bureau,” the highest-ranking position in the organization, following the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran last week.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/october-7-mastermind-yahya-sinwar-chosen-to-replace-haniyeh-as-hamas-leader/