Applying for a DTV (soft power) with Thai language classes possible?

[Schnitzelfritz]

So far I have enquired at the Thai Consulates/Embassies in Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, and the Philippines if an application for the DTV under the soft power category taking Thai language classes at a school recognized by the Ministry of Education will be accepted.

The most definite answer so far came from the Embassy in Yangon. They replied I'd have to book an appointment, submit my application, and find out whether my application would be accepted or not. The other replies I received were even more vague, some Consulates/Embassies didn't reply yet.

I have also asked The Ministry of Foreign Affairs directly if such an application might be successful, no response so far.

I will update this thread should I get definite 'yes' or 'no' answers.

 

It seems absurd that applications learning Muay Thai or cooking classes get accepted but nobody knows if learning the language will be accepted under the soft power category as well.

If Foreigners around the world speak Thai is not a soft power of Thailand then I don't know what is..

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Schnitzelfritz said:

It seems absurd that applications learning Muay Thai or cooking classes get accepted but nobody knows if learning the language will be accepted under the soft power category as well

Just bumping your thread as no reply.

I'm guessing that for the reasons you mention eg Muay Thai , Thai Language etc that that an agent might be used to organize the courses.

The bottom line is that you need to have the visa issued outside of Thailand.

Agents I have chatted with are using Savannakhet. 

[Schnitzelfritz]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Just bumping your thread as no reply.

I'm guessing that for the reasons you mention eg Muay Thai , Thai Language etc that that an agent might be used to organize the courses.

The bottom line is that you need to have the visa issued outside of Thailand.

Agents I have chatted with are using Savannakhet. 

Thank you for the bump 😄

So those agents would travel together with the applicant to Laos and facilitate the visa on-site?

I would prefer to do that on my own but wouldn't hesitate to use the help of an agent if there is no other way. The only concern I have is that in the future upon reentry into Thailand an IO could check if the traveler still engages in the activities he got his DTV issued for. I intend to seriously study the Thai language and would be screwed in such a scenario with a DTV issued for participating in Muay Thai for example.

I doubt that in their system Immigration will only have an entry on which category the DTV was issued, workcation or soft power etc. I believe they will have more details to check. Bureaucracy is very comprehensive and detailed here after all.

 

[anrcaccount]

I think over time there'll be far more types of activities accepted under "soft power" than have been currently.

 

There's far more to it than Muay Thai and medical appointments. Other examples mentioned are attending concerts / events and "sports" but yet to see many of these alternatives reported as accepted. Agree that thai language courses should definitely qualify. 

 

If you struggle 1 just book a medical or dentist appointment, seeing many reports of these being accepted even without any long term treatment plan.

 

Then you can do whatever you want when you arrive, study Thai to your hearts content. 

[Schnitzelfritz]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

 

If you struggle 1 just book a medical or dentist appointment, seeing many reports of these being accepted even without any long term treatment plan.

 

Then you can do whatever you want when you arrive, study Thai to your hearts content. 

Yep, this should work as it did for many others. I just think IOs will check on your reentry if you are still engaged in the activity you got the DTV based upon. If all you can show is a dental cleaning appointment months ago they might refuse you entry, not even granting you a visa exemption stamp because you already stayed in Thailand for half a year.

Getting the DTV seems pretty easy, but maintaining it could be challenging. 

[anrcaccount]

27 minutes ago, Schnitzelfritz said:

I just think IOs will check on your reentry if you are still engaged in the activity you got the DTV based upon. If all you can show is a dental cleaning appointment months ago they might refuse you entry, not even granting you a visa exemption stamp because you already stayed in Thailand for half a year.

Getting the DTV seems pretty easy, but maintaining it could be challenging. 

 

I don't agree based on the intent of the visa program and the statements of the foreign ministry so far.

 

It's essentially a 5 year tourism visa. You don't have to "maintain" it, it's valid for 5 years, unlimited entries in that time.

 

Once it's in your passport you're good to go in/ out for 5 years and are unlikely to be questioned at any land or air border. The visa is valid for entry. It's been granted to you. This is based on whats been said currently. 

 

It's not like the Education Visa.

 

The exception which is unknown currently, is the in country extension process, which can be avoided altogether of desired.  

 

But if you do extend, there's 2 ways this could go. 

 

One is you have to show your "purpose" is still valid i.e. Proof of soft power or Workcation.

 

Second and IMO most  likely is - its just a extension fee tick and flick exercise, you pay 1900 baht and some photocopies and you're extended for another 180 days. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Schnitzelfritz]

3 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

Once it's in your passport you're good to go in/ out for 5 years and are unlikely to be questioned at any land or air border. The visa is valid for entry. It's been granted to you. This is based on whats been said currently.

The thing is what's been said already was only said by folks from The Ministry of Foreign Affairs..and they don't even answer my question if Thai language classes are accepted for an application. Guess they don't know, lol.

Thai Immigration so far remained completely mute about the DTV and ultimately it is in their discretion if you are permitted entry into Thailand. A valid visa is (sadly) no guarantee to enter the Kingdom.

[Rob Browder]

9 hours ago, Schnitzelfritz said:

I doubt that in their system Immigration will only have an entry on which category the DTV was issued, workcation or soft power etc. I believe they will have more details to check. Bureaucracy is very comprehensive and detailed here after all.

I do not see why they would need the specifics.  If applying for an extension, they could ask for paperwork of a future/ongoing use of the visa.  One might start with Muay Thai, then do cooking next.  If workcation, proof you have been getting paid.

 

In theory, the same request could be done on returning from a border-bounce - to spite the MFA spokesman saying this would not happen. 

 

I would assume there will be agent-facilitation of either route - extension or border-bounce - and the process will vary by office or entry-point.

[DrJack54]

25 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

I would assume there will be agent-facilitation of either route - extension or border-bounce - and the process will vary by office or entry-point.

No.

The agent will assist with DTV obtained in the main at Savannakhet not cheap

After that no support 

[Rob Browder]

59 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

No.

The agent will assist with DTV obtained in the main at Savannakhet not cheap

After that no support 

Not in the initial price/package - I agree.  But next Feb, when people start border-bouncing or extending their DTVs?   I would be surprised if something not put on the table by agents for that step, by land and/or air. 

One option is likely the van-runs operating now to Cambodia, which have a different cost for VEs vs Non-O-ME customers.  Will see what the DTV-bounce cost is.

[shdmn]

10 hours ago, Schnitzelfritz said:

Yep, this should work as it did for many others. I just think IOs will check on your reentry if you are still engaged in the activity you got the DTV based upon. If all you can show is a dental cleaning appointment months ago they might refuse you entry, not even granting you a visa exemption stamp because you already stayed in Thailand for half a year.

Getting the DTV seems pretty easy, but maintaining it could be challenging. 

The only thing I have read about needing to show additional paperwork for once approved is another bank statement if you want to extend another 180 days.  If they were to get nitpicky about anything it probably would be the people re-entering in that category though.

[Caldera]

15 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

The agent will assist with DTV obtained in the main at Savannakhet not cheap

 

What's the going rate for an agent-assisted DTV in Savannakhet?

 

If it's "not cheap" as you say, I'd imagine it's a bit different from visa run companies taking people to Savannakhet for other visas. With those visa runs, applicants essentially need to qualify for the visa on their own.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Caldera said:

If it's "not cheap" as you say, I'd imagine it's a bit different from visa run companies taking people to Savannakhet for other visas

The joint I discussed it with included everything from travel to accommodation even meals etc.

Think min 3 nights. 

Van from Bangkok. Personally would not be interested in Van 

Best chat with agents directly.

Initially I used messenger, Line etc.

Obviously you can also use phone

[Bday Prang]

On 9/25/2024 at 1:49 PM, anrcaccount said:

I think over time there'll be far more types of activities accepted under "soft power" than have been currently.

 I suspect the opposite,  Muay Thai and Thai language courses have long been abused as methods of staying here long term,,  I know a few who have gone down that route  non could speak thai and none could punch their way out of a wet paper bag.   I fully expect the requirements to become more onerous as the immigration authorities and embassies begin to wake up.

 Think  about it 5 years permission to stay on the basis of "dental treatment"  or "cooking courses"  it doesn't make sense.

  I think whoever dreamed this up had appalling english skills, but none of his subordinates dared to point this out, loss of face and all that,  that is the only possible reason for the currently bizarre requirements 

As usual we will have to wait and see

[anrcaccount]

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

 I suspect the opposite,  Muay Thai and Thai language courses have long been abused as methods of staying here long term,,  I know a few who have gone down that route  non could speak thai and none could punch their way out of a wet paper bag.   I fully expect the requirements to become more onerous as the immigration authorities and embassies begin to wake up.

 Think  about it 5 years permission to stay on the basis of "dental treatment"  or "cooking courses"  it doesn't make sense.

  I think whoever dreamed this up had appalling english skills, but none of his subordinates dared to point this out, loss of face and all that,  that is the only possible reason for the currently bizarre requirements 

As usual we will have to wait and see

 

I understand your point of view, but I don't agree.

 

I think this visa is designed specifically to let people stay as much as they like for 5 years.

 

They want people to stay here long term, it is why they released this visa. It's already attracted thousands of applicants and approvals in a relatively short time. 

 

They really could have just made it a 5 year METV but having the "purposes" of workcation or soft power probably helped them get this setup internally.

 

 

[Bday Prang]

2 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

I understand your point of view, but I don't agree.

 

I think this visa is designed specifically to let people stay as much as they like for 5 years.

 

They want people to stay here long term, it is why they released this visa. It's already attracted thousands of applicants and approvals in a relatively short time. 

 

They really could have just made it a 5 year METV but having the "purposes" of workcation or soft power probably helped them get this setup internally.

 

 

You may be right , as I said we will have to wait and see.  I really doubt this is going to work out too well for the authorities   I think they might just find themselves over run with moronic you tube "influencers" and tik tokkers  I don't think that is what they really want  but who really knows.

I would have thought resurrecting the Multi entry non O would have been easier for them

 

What does "soft power" even mean, the phrase always makes me think of the snide underhand way many  Thais have of extorting money without resorting to violence ( except when they are caught out)  I am beginning to hate the phrase  as much as the equally meaningless "quality tourists"

[Bday Prang]

On 9/25/2024 at 9:13 AM, Schnitzelfritz said:

So far I have enquired at the Thai Consulates/Embassies in Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, and the Philippines if an application for the DTV under the soft power category taking Thai language classes at a school recognized by the Ministry of Education will be accepted.

The most definite answer so far came from the Embassy in Yangon. They replied I'd have to book an appointment, submit my application, and find out whether my application would be accepted or not. The other replies I received were even more vague, some Consulates/Embassies didn't reply yet.

I have also asked The Ministry of Foreign Affairs directly if such an application might be successful, no response so far.

I will update this thread should I get definite 'yes' or 'no' answers.

 

It seems absurd that applications learning Muay Thai or cooking classes get accepted but nobody knows if learning the language will be accepted under the soft power category as well.

If Foreigners around the world speak Thai is not a soft power of Thailand then I don't know what is..

And exactly how many foreigners will be speaking Thai "around the world" as a result of this do you think ?

Probably about the same number who became fluent after 10+ years on an education visa  

[Schnitzelfritz]

14 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

And exactly how many foreigners will be speaking Thai "around the world" as a result of this do you think ?

Probably about the same number who became fluent after 10+ years on an education visa  

Most likely more... The ED visa is less flexible than the DTV. Leaving the country for a few weeks for business or private reasons is much easier on a DTV, you go, with no planning, and a re-entry permit isn't required. 

You can't just leave for a month on an ED visa, at least not at the school I have enquired about.

I'm not saying the DTV is the better choice, it could be but it seems Immigration doesn't like the DTV all too much.

Most people holding a DTV won't do an extension, less work and control, and mostly less income for the Bureau.

[Schnitzelfritz]

On 9/25/2024 at 9:13 AM, Schnitzelfritz said:

So far I have enquired at the Thai Consulates/Embassies in Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, Indonesia, and the Philippines if an application for the DTV under the soft power category taking Thai language classes at a school recognized by the Ministry of Education will be accepted.

The most definite answer so far came from the Embassy in Yangon. They replied I'd have to book an appointment, submit my application, and find out whether my application would be accepted or not. The other replies I received were even more vague, some Consulates/Embassies didn't reply yet.

I have also asked The Ministry of Foreign Affairs directly if such an application might be successful, no response so far.

I will update this thread should I get definite 'yes' or 'no' answers.

 

It seems absurd that applications learning Muay Thai or cooking classes get accepted but nobody knows if learning the language will be accepted under the soft power category as well.

If Foreigners around the world speak Thai is not a soft power of Thailand then I don't know what is..

3 replies so far on my inquiry if Thai language classes taken at a school recognized by The Ministry of Education will be accepted under the soft power category.

 

Embassy Yangon: Book your appointment and try your luck.

 

Embassy Jakarta: Yes, accepted. Also, no appointment is needed, just walk in and submit the application. 3 working days processing time. Fee IDR 5 600 000.

 

Embassy Manila: No, not accepted.

 

 

[sikishrory]

I have a (muay thai) DTV appointment at Savannakhet coming up shortly.

I have had good experiences with marriage non-o visas there in the past without the 500 ppl long queues mentioned in the reviews online. I also heard a report of a DTV refusal there today but it is not my place to elaborate on that persons behalf.

Regardless of everything it is going to be a long, boring and expensive pain in the butt trip.

I will update my experience in the main DTV thread here whether good or bad.

[BrandonJT]

3 hours ago, sikishrory said:

I have a (muay thai) DTV appointment at Savannakhet coming up shortly.

I have had good experiences with marriage non-o visas there in the past without the 500 ppl long queues mentioned in the reviews online. I also heard a report of a DTV refusal there today but it is not my place to elaborate on that persons behalf.

Regardless of everything it is going to be a long, boring and expensive pain in the butt trip.

I will update my experience in the main DTV thread here whether good or bad.

I assume those 500 long queues were from before appointments were required.  Now they only see a set number of people per day.  

[sikishrory]

7 hours ago, BrandonJT said:

I assume those 500 long queues were from before appointments were required.  Now they only see a set number of people per day.  

I do hope you're right. I also don't remember it being a huge destination for organised tourist visa run groups back when I used to go there or maybe I just got lucky with the days. I see mixed reports in Google about the queue. Some say arrive no later than 6 - 6.30. Others say arrive at 8 no problem. I have a lot riding on it and nothing to do anyway so will probably go quite early

[Caldera]

3 hours ago, sikishrory said:

I also don't remember it being a huge destination for organised tourist visa run groups back when I used to go there or maybe I just got lucky with the days.

 

Applying for a tourist visa at a nearby consulate such as Savannakhet is pretty much nonsensical right now, as you can get the same time (60 days) visa exempt just turning around at the border. That in itself should make those queues quite a bit shorter.