Leaving USA ? Be aware of 30% tax....

[GypsyT]

"For eligible plans, US expatriates may be subject to a 30% US tax rate on all taxable payments, which is to be deducted and withheld by the payor. In special cases, individuals may be exempt from this tax under certain tax treaties.

For example, US expatriates who are Australian citizens may be exempt from the US tax if they begin taking withdrawals at age 65 or older and those withdrawals qualify as pension payments. However, the individual must waive the right to reduce withholding rates by treaty if they wish to receive “pay as you go” treatment for eligible deferred compensation items."

 

The smart way is to "Invest" overseas before exiting.

Then sell those assets when needed.

US don't monitor investments if they don't bring yearly income.

 

[CharlieH]

Moved to USA forum

[G_Money]

16 minutes ago, GypsyT said:

"For eligible plans, US expatriates may be subject to a 30% US tax rate on all taxable payments, which is to be deducted and withheld by the payor. In special cases, individuals may be exempt from this tax under certain tax treaties.

For example, US expatriates who are Australian citizens may be exempt from the US tax if they begin taking withdrawals at age 65 or older and those withdrawals qualify as pension payments. However, the individual must waive the right to reduce withholding rates by treaty if they wish to receive “pay as you go” treatment for eligible deferred compensation items."

 

The smart way is to "Invest" overseas before exiting.

Then sell those assets when needed.

US don't monitor investments if they don't bring yearly income.

 

Where was this information obtained?  Project 2025?

 

Not that it directly affects me but first I have heard of this.

 

 

[Gottfrid]

34 minutes ago, GypsyT said:

"For eligible plans, US expatriates may be subject to a 30% US tax rate on all taxable payments, which is to be deducted and withheld by the payor. In special cases, individuals may be exempt from this tax under certain tax treaties.

For example, US expatriates who are Australian citizens may be exempt from the US tax if they begin taking withdrawals at age 65 or older and those withdrawals qualify as pension payments. However, the individual must waive the right to reduce withholding rates by treaty if they wish to receive “pay as you go” treatment for eligible deferred compensation items."

 

The smart way is to "Invest" overseas before exiting.

Then sell those assets when needed.

US don't monitor investments if they don't bring yearly income.

 

Ok, and what use are, and what purpose have, investments that do not bring income? Can´t you just put the money in your pocket then. Better up! Set up a company registration in UAE, transfer your money to that company as a payment for security services. Then they are in a tax free country. The company can invest them from there.

[Pib]

Below provides more details....nothing new about this....it only applies when a person meets the right conditions.

 

https://www.gfp.institute/post/how-the-us-exit-tax-is-calculated-for-covered-expatriates

[Jingthing]

It seems to me for all practical purposes this is mostly about U.S. citizens who revoke their citizenship. Which is rather rare compared to the number of expats that keep their citizenship, and continue to file U.S. tax returns and pay due taxes there as required.

[G_Money]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It seems to me for all practical purposes this is mostly about U.S. citizens who revoke their citizenship. Which is rather rare compared to the number of expats that keep their citizenship, and continue to file U.S. tax returns and pay due taxes there as required.

So many leftists claim they’re leaving the country and hopefully renouncing their citizenship at the same time.

 

That alone could make Social Security solvent for another hundred years.

 

 

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, G_Money said:

So many leftists claim they’re leaving the country and hopefully renouncing their citizenship at the same time.

 

That alone could make Social Security solvent for another hundred years.

 

 

Huh? 

You don't need to be a citizen to receive Social Security. You really didn't know that?

Most expats don't renounce their U.S. citizenship anyway and of the subset of expats that leave for political reasons they come from the right wing as well.

To places like Russia which now has a special program for right wing immigrants.

 

As far as social security solvency, Trump's proposed mass deportations will be a disaster for the funding as undocumented people pay BILLIONS into the system annually (while not being eligible for benefits).

[Pib]

15 minutes ago, G_Money said:

So many leftists claim they’re leaving the country and hopefully renouncing their citizenship at the same time.

 

That alone could make Social Security solvent for another hundred years.

 

 

As Jingthing already pointed non-U.S. citizens can receive social security....many, many do.  They just need to have worked/resided in the U.S. for the required  number of years.  Heck even a non-U.S. citizen spouse who lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years with their US citizen spouse can get a spousal social security pension even if the non-U.S. citizen never worked/paid social security taxes. The law has been that way for many years.   

[G_Money]

19 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Huh? 

You don't need to be a citizen to receive Social Security. You really didn't know that?

Most expats don't renounce their U.S. citizenship anyway and of the subset of expats that leave for political reasons they come from the right wing as well.

To places like Russia which now has a special program for right wing immigrants.

 

As far as social security solvency, Trump's proposed mass deportations will be a disaster for the funding as undocumented people pay BILLIONS into the system annually (while not being eligible for benefits).

1.  Do you have the link from SSA stating a person voluntarily renouncing of citizenship can still qualify for SSA payments.

 

2.  Well aware SS can be paid to non USC under different circumstances.  That’s not what I was referring to.  You knew that.  Not sure if you’re acting dumb or if it’s just naturally you.

 

Focus on what I stated without deflecting.  It’s hard, but try.

 

3.  Based upon the intense media meltdowns of leftists going berserk and their contempt for America.

Witnessed by people all over the World.  
I firmly believe if they say what they mean renouncing is most probable.  

 

Once again when replying focus on what I stated and not on your many other what ifs.

 

K.I.S.S.    Do you know the meaning?  If not and want to know, ask.

 

 

[G_Money]

31 minutes ago, Pib said:

As Jingthing already pointed non-U.S. citizens can receive social security....many, many do.  They just need to have worked/resided in the U.S. for the required  number of years.  Heck even a non-U.S. citizen spouse who lived in the U.S. for at least 5 years with their US citizen spouse can get a spousal social security pension even if the non-U.S. citizen never worked/paid social security taxes. The law has been that way for many years.   

Well aware of this.

 

I was referring to voluntary renouncing citizenship.   Resolving SS solvency quote was partially sarcastic.

 

 

[Pib]

Typical talk after an election....if the Democrats won many rightists say they are leaving the U.S.....if the Republicans won many leftists say are leaving the U.S.   

[Pib]

https://bambridgeaccountants.com/us-expat/impact-on-benefits-post-citizenship-renunciation#:~:text=If you have earned enough,U.S. federal law prohibits payments.

[G_Money]

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

https://bambridgeaccountants.com/us-expat/impact-on-benefits-post-citizenship-renunciation#:~:text=If you have earned enough,U.S. federal law prohibits payments.

Good link

[CallumWK]

13 minutes ago, Pib said:

.if the Democrats won many rightists say they are leaving the U.S...

 

You have any links to news articles posting that, as I've never seen any, but there are plenty where leftists make those claims

[JimTripper]

I use a US street address on tax returns. Mail gets re-packaged and forwarded to me using a new envelope. They don't know I live abroad.

[NoDisplayName]

Nobody is leaving, especially not by renouncing citizenship.  Those claiming "if Trump wins" are just virtue signalling.  It's all forgotten the day after.

 

The 30% wouldn't affect anyone not renouncing citizenship.  That's a big step and not taken on a whim.  Requires research and planning and careful consideration, not something to be expected from those lefties whose butts have been hurt.  And it costs money to renounce citizenship, so never mind.

[Jingthing]

45 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Nobody is leaving, especially not by renouncing citizenship.  Those claiming "if Trump wins" are just virtue signalling.  It's all forgotten the day after.

 

The 30% wouldn't affect anyone not renouncing citizenship.  That's a big step and not taken on a whim.  Requires research and planning and careful consideration, not something to be expected from those lefties whose butts have been hurt.  And it costs money to renounce citizenship, so never mind.

Plenty of us on the forum.have left but not usually because of politics and as said renouncing citizenship is rather rare.

[JimTripper]

56 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Nobody is leaving, especially not by renouncing citizenship.  Those claiming "if Trump wins" are just virtue signalling.  It's all forgotten the day after.

 

The 30% wouldn't affect anyone not renouncing citizenship.  That's a big step and not taken on a whim.  Requires research and planning and careful consideration, not something to be expected from those lefties whose butts have been hurt.  And it costs money to renounce citizenship, so never mind.

Does not renouncing citizenship cancel Social security payments and medicare? Plus, having a fallback country you can flee to on a whim in an emergency is gone.

 

Seems like an insanely dumb idea unless you are uber wealthy and have a tax advantage. Talk about burning your bridges...

[G_Money]

6 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

Does not renouncing citizenship cancel Social security payments and medicare? Plus, having a fallback country you can flee to on a whim in an emergency is gone.

 

Talk about burning your bridges...

The link by Pib about 7 post above everything.

[NoDisplayName]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Plenty of us on the forum.have left but not usually because of politics and as said renouncing citizenship is rather rare.

 

Ezzackly!  None of these TikTok virtue signalers are going to pull up stakes and leave the USA.  They'll film some temper tantrums in their basement to post on Facebook, and go to Starbucks to cry in their soi latte's whenever anyone is looking.  It's all an act.

 

Oh!  Should post that to the guy in Pattaya that wants to open a sammich shop!..................Soi Latte!

[Yellowtail]

I thought leftist loved taxes, what's the problem? 

[Airalee]

Here….

 

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/expatriation-tax

 

 

[Smokin Joe]

2 hours ago, JimTripper said:

I use a US street address on tax returns. Mail gets re-packaged and forwarded to me using a new envelope. They don't know I live abroad.

 

Yes they Do. They just don't care. Mainly only a concern for state taxation.

[JimTripper]

7 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

Yes they Do. They just don't care. Mainly only a concern for state taxation.

How would they know? Bank records of foreign withdrawls? That could be vacations.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, JimTripper said:

How would they know?

I use my Thai address for my federal and California returns. If I used my California address, I would have to pay California taxes. 

[JimTripper]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I use my Thai address for my federal and California returns. If I used my California address, I would have to pay California taxes. 

You only do a state return if you are domiciled there. You might as well use the California address. Residency in California would be the deciding factor, not your address.

 

I used to live in California. When I severed ties and got an address in Nevada I stopped filing a California return.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

You only do a state return if you are domiciled there. You might as well use the California address.

 

I used to live in California. When I severed ties and got an address in Nevada I stopped filing a California return.

If you have a brokerage and or bank account with a California address (I do), you will have to file a return or California will attach your wages. 

 

They are relentless. 

[JimTripper]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If you have a brokerage and or bank account with a California address (I do), you will have to file a return or California will attach your wages. 

 

They are relentless. 

That is one factor that would determine residency requiring a return. You could challenge it at an audit using bank accounts abroad, foreign leases, time out of country, etc.

 

It's probably easier to just close those accounts and get a bank account in a state with no state tax, like Nevada or Florida. You would need a street address in that state to open the account though and prove it with a state id, etc. Some banks even want you to show up in person to open one.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, JimTripper said:

That is one factor that would determine residency requiring a return. You could challenge it at an audit using bank accounts abroad, foreign leases, time out of country, etc.

 

It's probably easier to just close those accounts and get a bank account in a state with no state tax, like Nevada or Florida.

It takes ten minutes to complete the return and another ten to get it ready to post. 

 

I have a California driver license I want to maintain, a phone, a safety deposit box at the bank, a lifetime fishing license and a number of relatives.