Controversy Over Trans Athlete Dominates Mountain West Volleyball Tournament

[mdr224]

Wouldnt expect a liberal to understand unless they are a woman having to compete against a man

[Cryingdick]

If the Olympics allows this in the future. You can only imagine the Chinese for example. They already put little kids in concentration camps and beat them to compete make them go under brutal training routines. They tried passing off some 14 year olds as being older, no birth  certificates of course. All they need to is add a chop and flop surgery unit into  the sports gulag and pump the kids full of drugs. They will own the entire women's Olympic medal count. 

[quake]

50 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

No I cannot. English is English. Get it right.

 

You left your cap on the ground.

Please put it back on your head. suits you sir.

 

 

[LukKrueng]

13 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I agree, but what do we do about people who don't have only xx or xy chromosomes? Some (only 2 in 1,000) are born with XXY, a mix of chromosomes. Klinefelter Syndrome: What It Is, Symptoms & Treatment

That is a medical condition that has nothing to do with sex confusion. I haven't seen any statistics about it, but I'm pretty sure the % of people with xxy chromosome in the trans community is about the same as in the general population

[WDSmart]

14 hours ago, KannikaP said:

If Adam & Eve were a man & a woman, what has changed. There ARE just males and females, no matter what they say they want to be. 

Only a man & a woman can NATURALLY reproduce.

"Adam and Eve" are only a legend. They never existed. Everyone has physical and psychological attributes that range from very dominantly male to dominantly female. This range is very much focused on each end, but there are those that exist somewhere in the middle. And, reproduction is not a subject important to this Forum's topic.

[WDSmart]

13 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

The problem is that it very likely mentions men and women, rather than male and female.  If it was male and female, trans athletes would be out of luck, as someone born male remains male.

I agree with your last statement, but what about people who are born with both physical and psychological aspects of both genders? 

[WDSmart]

13 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

14 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I agree, but what do we do about people who don't have only xx or xy chromosomes? Some (only 2 in 1,000) are born with XXY, a mix of chromosomes. Klinefelter Syndrome: What It Is, Symptoms & Treatment

 

   They cannot play in the game 

But what if someone is Black? Can they play? If you answer yes, what's the difference? 

[James105]

34 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

But what if someone is Black? Can they play? If you answer yes, what's the difference? 

 

If they are a black woman - yes.

If they are a black male - no.

 

Black people are not a different species so same rules apply.  Hope this helps.  

[phetphet]

On 11/27/2024 at 6:24 AM, Cryingdick said:

One day it will lead to teams trying to recruit bigger girl dudes. 

Or all "girl dudes". A whole team of trans constantly winning everything in sight.

[WDSmart]

58 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

If they are a black woman - yes.

If they are a black male - no.

 

Black people are not a different species so same rules apply.  Hope this helps.  

My point is that it wasn't that long ago that Blacks were discriminated against in many aspects of society, including the ability to play on sports teams, go to school, or share the same drinking fountains with Whites. Now, it is suggested that trans-gender athletes of both sexes should be discriminated against and banned from competing with cisgender (a term for people who identify with the gender they were assigned at birth A Guide To Gender Identity Terms | NPR Illinois) people. How long do we have to wait until those prejudices disappear, or at least their enforcement is prohibited by law?  

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I agree with your last statement, but what about people who are born with both physical and psychological aspects of both genders? 

 

I believe they are called intersex. I'm not sure what various sporting bodies have to say about that. You would hope that they view it on a case by case basis and think about whether the individual has an unfair advantage.

 

I think that was the case with the Olympic boxer that caused a stir recently. She was some sort of intersex and it gave her a massive advantage, but she was still allowed to compete.

[James105]

43 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

My point is that it wasn't that long ago that Blacks were discriminated against in many aspects of society, including the ability to play on sports teams, go to school, or share the same drinking fountains with Whites. Now, it is suggested that trans-gender athletes of both sexes should be discriminated against and banned from competing with cisgender (a term for people who identify with the gender they were assigned at birth A Guide To Gender Identity Terms | NPR Illinois) people. How long do we have to wait until those prejudices disappear, or at least their enforcement is prohibited by law?  

 

You have been misinformed by your woke media overlords.  No trans person has ever been "banned" from competing in their correct category and a trans women (male) can compete against other males.   If men are being banned from competing against men because they are trans I agree this is problematic but I have never heard of this happening - do you have a link to back this up?

[Hanaguma]

10 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

You have been misinformed by your woke media overlords.  No trans person has ever been "banned" from competing in their correct category and a trans women (male) can compete against other males.   If men are being banned from competing against men because they are trans I agree this is problematic but I have never heard of this happening - do you have a link to back this up?

Yeah, it is kinda strange that this is only a one-way issue. Trans-women want to compete in womens's sports. Yet there are few/no examples of trans-men demanding to compete in mens' sports.  Similarly, men are not up in arms or feeling unsafe if trans-men use their bathrooms or locker facilities.

 

This leads me to believe that in the vast majority of cases, this is a psychological issue rather than a physiological one. So it should be treated as such- with therapy, not with sterilization and mutilation and amputation of perfectly healthy body parts.

[WDSmart]

29 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

You have been misinformed by your woke media overlords.  No trans person has ever been "banned" from competing in their correct category and a trans women (male) can compete against other males.   If men are being banned from competing against men because they are trans I agree this is problematic but I have never heard of this happening - do you have a link to back this up?

No, I don't have any links on this aspect, and there are many aspects of this that puzzle me. Some of those are the terms. Does "trans women" mean people classified as men at birth who now identify as being women, or does "trans women" mean people who are classified as women at birth but who now identify as being men? And is there a term "trans man" for the opposite of whatever a "trans women" is?

Also, you bring up a good issue. It seems like there is pressure for the "trans" of male-to-female types to be prohibited from participating in women's sports, but neither "trans," female-to-male, nor male-to-female, is prohibited (as far as I know) from participating in men's sports. I know men are prohibited from participating in women's sports, but are women prohibited from participating in men's sports? I think not because I've seen female golfers participate in men's sports. Doesn't that gender prohibition go both ways? If the answer is no, why not? 

[James105]

35 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

No, I don't have any links on this aspect, and there are many aspects of this that puzzle me. Some of those are the terms. Does "trans women" mean people classified as men at birth who now identify as being women, or does "trans women" mean people who are classified as women at birth but who now identify as being men? And is there a term "trans man" for the opposite of whatever a "trans women" is?

Also, you bring up a good issue. It seems like there is pressure for the "trans" of male-to-female types to be prohibited from participating in women's sports, but neither "trans," female-to-male, nor male-to-female, is prohibited (as far as I know) from participating in men's sports. I know men are prohibited from participating in women's sports, but are women prohibited from participating in men's sports? I think not because I've seen female golfers participate in men's sports. Doesn't that gender prohibition go both ways? If the answer is no, why not? 

 

You are overcomplicating things.  Start with the premise that there are 2 immutable sexes and then everything becomes clear.   Gender identity is like acting.   For example, when you watch a superman movie there isn't really someone who has the power to fly and shoot lasers out of his eyes, he is just pretending to be superman.  In a similar fashion a man can dress as a woman (trans woman) and pretend to be a woman.  That is why the actor who plays superman is not banned from competing against normal humans who do not have superpowers as he is a normal human himself, and the fact he dressed up as superman didn't change that.  

[WDSmart]

55 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

You are overcomplicating things.  Start with the premise that there are 2 immutable sexes and then everything becomes clear.   Gender identity is like acting.   For example, when you watch a superman movie there isn't really someone who has the power to fly and shoot lasers out of his eyes, he is just pretending to be superman.  In a similar fashion a man can dress as a woman (trans woman) and pretend to be a woman.  That is why the actor who plays superman is not banned from competing against normal humans who do not have superpowers as he is a normal human himself, and the fact he dressed up as superman didn't change that.  

“Look! Up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? It’s Superman!” https://www.nprillinois.org/2021-06-02/a-guide-to-gender-identity-terms

 

I think you are completely wrong. The problem with this whole controversy is not because those of us who accept trans people as who they believe themselves to be are "overcomplicating things." The problem is that those of you who do not accept trans people is that you are oversimplifying things. 

Above, you say, "gender identity is like acting." I think you are right in that. Those of us who accept the script we are given, practice it, and then act on it every day are welcomed by the director. Those who cast the script aside and improvise are rejected by the director and run the risk of being removed from the performance. The audience, however, likes both versions. 

[LukKrueng]

4 hours ago, WDSmart said:

My point is that it wasn't that long ago that Blacks were discriminated against in many aspects of society, including the ability to play on sports teams, go to school, or share the same drinking fountains with Whites. Now, it is suggested that trans-gender athletes of both sexes should be discriminated against and banned from competing with cisgender (a term for people who identify with the gender they were assigned at birth A Guide To Gender Identity Terms | NPR Illinois) people. How long do we have to wait until those prejudices disappear, or at least their enforcement is prohibited by law?  

A very simple question for you: are there physical differences between a male body and a female body?

If your answer is No - then why aren't there just leagues for this sport and that sport? Why are all those leagues divided into man (male) and women (female) leagues?

If your answer is Yes - then you already understand that you shouldn't let a male play professional sport with females. 

Nothing to do with skin colour.

[RichardColeman]

Hopefully Trump will introduce a total ban on men in women's sports and a retrospective giving of first prize to the next WOMAN and not a trans.

 

I also hope he funds legal fights against these people and allows suing of school and universities into the ground for sexism

[WDSmart]

7 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

A very simple question for you: are there physical differences between a male body and a female body?

If your answer is No - then why aren't there just leagues for this sport and that sport? Why are all those leagues divided into man (male) and women (female) leagues?

If your answer is Yes - then you already understand that you shouldn't let a male play professional sport with females. 

Nothing to do with skin colour.

The very problem here is that you can't truthfully answer "yes" or "no" to your "simple" question.

What we define as a "male" and "female" body is at opposite ends of a very steep upside-down bell curve, like this one:



The vast majority of us do fit into the definition of "male" or "female." However, some, a small percentage, do not.

This applies to both physical and psychological aspects. 

There are male and female leagues because those do define the vast majority of people.

We don't let males play in women's professional sports, and, for the most part but not always - there have been exceptions, do not let women play in men's professional sports. 

We're not discussing that here. What we are, or at least I am, discussing is what do we do with those near the bottom of the bell curve above, 

Skin color is a physical attribute. At one time in the not-too-distant past, people with different skin colors were treated differently. Now that, for the most part, has been overcome, or at least has become illegal. I hope the same will happen with this transgender discrimination also. 

[This Guy]

On 11/27/2024 at 4:59 AM, Jingthing said:

The forfeiting teams are bad sports. Reminds me of Iranians refusing to play Israelis.

Or the US and its sycophants boycotting the Moscow Olympics? Oh  perhaps you forgot it's not all one sided?

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, This Guy said:

Or the US and its sycophants boycotting the Moscow Olympics? Oh  perhaps you forgot it's not all one sided?

Not following you.

 

[youreavinalaff]

23 minutes ago, This Guy said:

Or the US and its sycophants boycotting the Moscow Olympics? Oh  perhaps you forgot it's not all one sided?

Not forgetting the Eastern bloc boycotting LA 1984. You wouldn't want yo be accused of discrimination, would you?

[Nick Carter icp]

4 hours ago, WDSmart said:

We're not discussing that here. What we are, or at least I am, discussing is what do we do with those near the bottom of the bell curve above, 

 

 

   They shouldn't be allowed  play for either team 

[WDSmart]

18 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   They shouldn't be allowed  play for either team 

So you would just ban transexuals from playing on any team sports - high school, college, professional - , right?

[Nick Carter icp]

25 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

So you would just ban transexuals from playing on any team sports - high school, college, professional - , right?

 

  

   I would ban them from playing in teams that are different to their birth gender .

   People born Male couldn't play in Female teams and vice versa

 

[riclag]

On 11/27/2024 at 6:24 AM, Cryingdick said:

One day it will lead to teams trying to recruit bigger girl dudes. 

It was tried in another country!

https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/case-study/east-germanys-doping-machine

[James105]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

So you would just ban transexuals from playing on any team sports - high school, college, professional - , right?

 

They are not banned from playing team sports.  You need to stop spreading this lie.  If they are a man (trans woman) then they can play on the mens team.   They should be banned from playing on the women's team as they are not women.   An average male athlete becomes elite level if allowed to compete against women, which is why it is unfair on actual women to allow men pretending to be women to compete against them.   

[WDSmart]

6 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

They are not banned from playing team sports.  You need to stop spreading this lie.  If they are a man (trans woman) then they can play on the mens team.   They should be banned from playing on the women's team as they are not women.   An average male athlete becomes elite level if allowed to compete against women, which is why it is unfair on actual women to allow men pretending to be women to compete against them.   

Thanks. What if they are a woman (trans man?), then can they play on the women's team AND/OR the men's team - in your opinion? 

Transgender people are not "pretending" to be a certain gender. They believe they are that gender. 

[youreavinalaff]

30 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

They are not banned from playing team sports.  You need to stop spreading this lie.  If they are a man (trans woman) then they can play on the mens team.   They should be banned from playing on the women's team as they are not women.   An average male athlete becomes elite level if allowed to compete against women, which is why it is unfair on actual women to allow men pretending to be women to compete against them.   

Keep up with the comments trail.

 

The question, not suggestion or fact, you quoted was posted in response to a comment " they shouldn't be allowed to play for either team"

 

How many "average men" do you know who can run 100m in 11 seconds?

Edited 1 hour ago by youreavinalaff

[James105]

36 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Thanks. What if they are a woman (trans man?), then can they play on the women's team AND/OR the men's team - in your opinion? 

Transgender people are not "pretending" to be a certain gender. They believe they are that gender. 

 

Sure but just because they believe something to be so doesn't make it a fact nor does it mean everyone else to believe it or go along with their fantasy.  I could believe I was Brad Pitt.  Does that then mean everyone else has to call me Brad and give me the right to sleep with Angelina Jolie?  Of course not.