Creating a Savings Portfolio for Thai Wife

[gejohesch]

I have been living for nearly 20 years with a charming Thai woman. As I'm getting older (we all do!), I'm gradually getting concerned about the possibility that one day I will be gone, leaving her alone. She is 20 years younger than me, so that is quite a likely situation to happen some time in the future. I would like to find a way to put money away for her to secure her standards of living from that point in time onwards. Something like an in an investment or savings portfolio, say sthg in the order of 1-2 million THB, that she would know of but could only touch once I have disappeared.

 

Why am I asking? Because, as sweet and lovely she is, I still cannot trust her entirely. I would not want to give her the opportunity to cash out while I'm still alive, me not knowing, and who knows what she would do with the money, what sort of silly "project" she would use the money for, "project" that would miserably fail? Most people on this forum know the Thais sufficiently to understand what I'm talking about.

 

I'm aware that I could shop around the banks in Thailand and ask. However, if anyone in this forum could give me some appropriate advise, that would save me time and I would much appreciate it.

 

By "appropriate advise", I mean that please, abstain from unnecessary comments on my personal relationship with my wife. That's not what I need!

[scubascuba3]

Isn't that what a Will is for? keep things in your name, better to prepare a doc detailing accounts, investments, contacts etc, i know someone who prepared a folder for the wife for his death

[GypsyT]

I was going to recommend POD account but Thailand doesn't seem to have them? Maybe you check at your bank?

I have all US accounts like that.

"Thai Bank Accounts - P.O.D.?

While at the bank this morning, I asked the manager about changing the payable on death name on my account. He said they don’t have P.O.D. in Thailand. Admittedly, it has been many years since I opened those accounts so I may not be remembering correctly. The bank manager says it all has to go through the court system in Thailand for someone to collect the funds when someone passes away. Egads."

 

[G_Money]

16 minutes ago, GypsyT said:

I was going to recommend POD account but Thailand doesn't seem to have them? Maybe you check at your bank?

I have all US accounts like that.

"Thai Bank Accounts - P.O.D.?

While at the bank this morning, I asked the manager about changing the payable on death name on my account. He said they don’t have P.O.D. in Thailand. Admittedly, it has been many years since I opened those accounts so I may not be remembering correctly. The bank manager says it all has to go through the court system in Thailand for someone to collect the funds when someone passes away. Egads."

 

Correct . Thailand doesn’t have them.  A will or joint account is needed.

[G_Money]

OP,

 

I would recommend a Thai will.

 

Or a joint savings account but you maintain access until your demise.

 

Another consideration is the money in your account being available for the withdrawal as a lump sum.  Not a good idea IMO.

 
I would consult with a lawyer or the bank to consider the options of withdrawing a certain amount every month after you have passed.

 

Not to be condescending but realistic.

 

Chances are high that family and friends will be in contact with her for a loan or gift once the word is out she has a chunk of money available.  It could be depleted within a short amount of time due to Thai culture of helping everyone.

 

Limited monthly withdrawals would be a better option IMO.

 

 

[GypsyT]

41 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Or a joint savings account but you maintain access until your demise.

She can swipe funds out...

 

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, GypsyT said:

She can swipe funds out...

 

Only if she has possession of the bank book, if there is no debit card with it.

[Lacessit]

First step for the OP should be making a will.

 

Then a joint savings account, no cards, he retains possession of the bank book.

 

Alternatively, buy Thai gold bullion. Store in a Thai bank, access his signature only. Probate of his will about 6 months, then she can claim the gold.

 

I actually like the second option better, gold always appreciates in the long term.

[BigStar]

Seems to me that what the OP really wants is a trust she can't cash out soon as he's gone.

 

But no such thing in Thailand, evidently. And his proposed amount is too small for a foreign trust to be worthwhile.

 

In theory a lawyer or some other reliable person could serve as a kind of trustee in a joint account arrangement. But I've never heard of this being done. Obviously a risk.

[gejohesch]

18 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Isn't that what a Will is for? keep things in your name, better to prepare a doc detailing accounts, investments, contacts etc, i know someone who prepared a folder for the wife for his death

Thanks, obviously. I just forgot to say that I'm not legally married - some issues with my past life "back home" prevent me from marrying in Thailand. Any will I could write to the benefit of my "de facto wife" in Thailand would not be legally valid.

[gejohesch]

11 hours ago, G_Money said:

Correct . Thailand doesn’t have them.  A will or joint account is needed.

Ah, maybe that's the way : a joint account. I could check that out with a bank in T...

[gejohesch]

11 hours ago, G_Money said:

OP,

 

I would recommend a Thai will.

 

Or a joint savings account but you maintain access until your demise.

 

Another consideration is the money in your account being available for the withdrawal as a lump sum.  Not a good idea IMO.

 
I would consult with a lawyer or the bank to consider the options of withdrawing a certain amount every month after you have passed.

 

Not to be condescending but realistic.

 

Chances are high that family and friends will be in contact with her for a loan or gift once the word is out she has a chunk of money available.  It could be depleted within a short amount of time due to Thai culture of helping everyone.

 

Limited monthly withdrawals would be a better option IMO.

 

 

Thanks also to you. Indeed, a formula with limited withdrawal amounts would be a good idea. You obviously understand sthg of the Thai culture !  🙂

[gejohesch]

Thanks to all those who responded to my question. It's all been constructive and straight to the point. Really appreciated!

[Scouse123]

I understand you @gejohesch fully, because I am in a similar situation, but my partner would rather not know I was saving for her.

 

She wouldn't be able to resist trying to get her hands on it, as she has a problem with gambling, especially online, which can be controlled when I am physically here........to a degree!!

 

I do have a will in English and Thai, signed and stamped by a correct Thai law office.

 

We also have funds in Cambodia, which can be withdrawn by myself or jointly.

 

I do stress myself sometimes, about life beyond me, but the amazing thing is, they never seem to!

 

I would love to do something whereby on my demise, she was drip fed money each month, enough to live happily on.

 

Most of us know, left to their own devices, and with a gambling habit, it would be gone in double quick time, and the family sharks would be circling before my funeral ashes went out.

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Scouse123

[Thingamabob]

Our two properties are in my Thai wife's name, and I have nominated her to receive my depentent's pension in the likely event that I will pre-decease her.

[GreasyFingers]

I understand your thinking in looking after her but when you are dead you are not going to worry about it. I am in a similar situation and will be leaving her cash and gold in small quantities, and real estate. I know her family will be after her when I am gone (they are doing it already) but she will have to make her own decisions and I only hope she takes regard to what I tell her now.

[newnative]

On 11/27/2024 at 11:28 PM, gejohesch said:

Thanks, obviously. I just forgot to say that I'm not legally married - some issues with my past life "back home" prevent me from marrying in Thailand. Any will I could write to the benefit of my "de facto wife" in Thailand would not be legally valid.

      You can have beneficiaries in a Will whom are not relatives and you do not need to be legally married to have your partner be a beneficiary.   I suggest you have a Will drawn up that states that it is a Will specifically for your property in Thailand, with copies both in English and Thai.  

Edited 16 hours ago by newnative
clarification

[EVENKEEL]

If you own a house in her name she can rent it out and move back to her village. 

[1FinickyOne]

There are many ways to look at and approach this subject. 

 

It. sounds as if she is not well educated on investments and even then there are different ways to philosophically approach the issue.

 

Is it better to spend and enjoy some money now while she is not yet old? Or save for when she is older? Where will she get the most utility for the money? The answers are not the same for everyone. There is no right or wrong answer... and I cannot answer w/o knowing her hopes and dreams or life situation..

 

Farmland has proven a great longterm investment for my wife - - but we also discuss having money to enjoy her life, which may not be how I might enjoy spending money... 

 

I think you need to discuss the subject with her and respect her answers and know that nothing is 100% but some discipline helps. 

[prakhonchai nick]

Having helped a few Thai widows over the years, there are frequently problems.

 

One husband died unexpectedly and his fears that his wife would, at some later date, upon his demise most likely donate most of her money to the local wat and monks came true,

 

Another husband set up a Will requiring the executors to make regular monthly payments to the wife for a period of 4 years after which she could have the rest as a lump sum, hoping that the family predators would have gone away..  The family however had another idea. They found their own lawyer, advised there was no will, and the deceased had no family, and the wife/widow walked away with everything. (As I understand it, she lost most of it to the family in a very short space of time)

 

Does the OP not have a work related pension?. In most cases wives, and more often than not, partners, can receive a pension of around 50%, sometimes reduced where there is an age difference of more than 10 years

[Hummin]

The best thing is to buy an condemenium and rent it out, and when you are not here anymore, she can decide to sell it, or continue renting it out. 

 

In the meantime you can teach her the routines about having a rental object, the duties, the maintenenca airb? or whatever you prefer. 

 

 

[Captor]

On 11/27/2024 at 5:28 PM, gejohesch said:

Thanks, obviously. I just forgot to say that I'm not legally married - some issues with my past life "back home" prevent me from marrying in Thailand. Any will I could write to the benefit of my "de facto wife" in Thailand would not be legally valid.

If married a will is not necessary. If not married make a will.

 

That said, I would still make a will even if married, just in case...

But if not married then a will definitely is the way to go. 

[gejohesch]

6 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

I understand your thinking in looking after her but when you are dead you are not going to worry about it. I am in a similar situation and will be leaving her cash and gold in small quantities, and real estate. I know her family will be after her when I am gone (they are doing it already) but she will have to make her own decisions and I only hope she takes regard to what I tell her now.

"she will have to make her own decisions and I only hope she takes regard to what I tell her now."

 

True!

[jaideedave]

On 11/27/2024 at 1:08 PM, Lacessit said:

First step for the OP should be making a will.

 

Then a joint savings account, no cards, he retains possession of the bank book.

 

Alternatively, buy Thai gold bullion. Store in a Thai bank, access his signature only. Probate of his will about 6 months, then she can claim the gold.

 

I actually like the second option better, gold always appreciates in the long term.

Lass,I'm with you on the bullion option. I last bought @ about 26k/baht so have done okay lately.I get some flack from the Bitcoin tribe and I actually owned one at one time. At 74 I never really had a grasp on the block chain and wallets etc. I'll leave that to others.

I've never lost $ on gold or dividend stocks but I'm a conservative investor.   

                

[gejohesch]

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

If you own a house in her name she can rent it out and move back to her village. 

That's indeed an investment idea, thanks. There are pro's and con's when compared with eg a bank account of some sorts:

- bank = no need to worry about administration, the bank will do the admin. Like many Thai people, my partner has no clue how to manage any sizeable project. The trick being to arrange sthg with a bank such that she (and her family) cannot pillage it!

- a house = a property = sthg that can not vanish easily into thin air. One never knows with a bank....

- a house needs to be looked after, and if it is rented out there are always going to be issues with managing the rent, risks of getting difficult tenants etc.

[jaideedave]

5 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

Having helped a few Thai widows over the years, there are frequently problems.

 

One husband died unexpectedly and his fears that his wife would, at some later date, upon his demise most likely donate most of her money to the local wat and monks came true,

 

Another husband set up a Will requiring the executors to make regular monthly payments to the wife for a period of 4 years after which she could have the rest as a lump sum, hoping that the family predators would have gone away..  The family however had another idea. They found their own lawyer, advised there was no will, and the deceased had no family, and the wife/widow walked away with everything. (As I understand it, she lost most of it to the family in a very short space of time)

 

Does the OP not have a work related pension?. In most cases wives, and more often than not, partners, can receive a pension of around 50%, sometimes reduced where there is an age difference of more than 10 years

"can receive a pension of around 50%, sometimes reduced where there is an age difference of more than 10 years "

This is my situation exactly.My wife will receive 37.5% of my CPP,Canada pension as she is below 65. there are other assets as well. My biggest faer is her giving it away to her eldest sister who is a working poor gov't employee. Blood is thicker than water in LOS but I've had a dam'n good run here so who cares! 

[gejohesch]

5 hours ago, prakhonchai nick said:

fears that his wife would, at some later date, upon his demise most likely donate most of her money to the local wat and monks came true,

 

Does the OP not have a work related pension?. In most cases wives, and more often than not, partners, can receive a pension of around 50%, sometimes reduced where there is an age difference of more than 10 years

Donations to the wat : indeed, that's a concern. My partner is more sensible than most others I see around in her region, and she has seen the world with me (outside Thailand) so she has a bit of a sense of reality. However, she remains a Thai person, and whenever we are back in her village, she turns back being glued to the wat and everything that revolves around.

 

Buddhism is a nice thing, which I respect, in principle, but the way it is practised in Thailand is a corruption of what it origially was meant to be....

 

Pension: yes, I have pensions (plural), related to past employment. However, not being legally married with my Thai partner, and still having a legal wife in Europe (very difficult to divorce for various reasons), the law in my case - given my nationality and where the pensions are being paid - would completely override any will I might have signed, wherever.

 

So, a reasonable option I get from a number of contributors in this discussion would be to invest in a condo, on my Thai partner's name, that would secure her a regular income. Key would then be to invest in a quality condo with quality management. And hoping she would not sell it once I'm deceased to waste it all between the wat and her family, but again, that would be up to her. There are limits to what one can do!

[khunPer]

On 11/26/2024 at 8:08 PM, gejohesch said:

I have been living for nearly 20 years with a charming Thai woman. As I'm getting older (we all do!), I'm gradually getting concerned about the possibility that one day I will be gone, leaving her alone. She is 20 years younger than me, so that is quite a likely situation to happen some time in the future. I would like to find a way to put money away for her to secure her standards of living from that point in time onwards. Something like an in an investment or savings portfolio, say sthg in the order of 1-2 million THB, that she would know of but could only touch once I have disappeared.

 

Why am I asking? Because, as sweet and lovely she is, I still cannot trust her entirely. I would not want to give her the opportunity to cash out while I'm still alive, me not knowing, and who knows what she would do with the money, what sort of silly "project" she would use the money for, "project" that would miserably fail? Most people on this forum know the Thais sufficiently to understand what I'm talking about.

 

I'm aware that I could shop around the banks in Thailand and ask. However, if anyone in this forum could give me some appropriate advise, that would save me time and I would much appreciate it.

 

By "appropriate advise", I mean that please, abstain from unnecessary comments on my personal relationship with my wife. That's not what I need!

The easy solution: You can make a portfolio in your own name and a last will that leaves the portfolio to your girlfriend/spouse. While you are still around, you have full control on investment, and nobody but you can touch the savings. There is so far no inheritance tax of reasonable small amounts – up to 100 million baht – in Thailand.

 

I've given my girlfriend some annual savings on the condition that they are invested. In the beginning we used the so-called Fund Books, but later changed to a equity portfolio in her name, which she handles herself. It also made her interested in checking investment advices and find some stocks herself of interest.

 

Besides that, I've written in my will that one of my two Thai equity portfolios goes to my girlfriend after I move on to a higher spiritual level; the other is left for our daughter.

[EVENKEEL]

7 hours ago, gejohesch said:

That's indeed an investment idea, thanks. There are pro's and con's when compared with eg a bank account of some sorts:

- bank = no need to worry about administration, the bank will do the admin. Like many Thai people, my partner has no clue how to manage any sizeable project. The trick being to arrange sthg with a bank such that she (and her family) cannot pillage it!

- a house = a property = sthg that can not vanish easily into thin air. One never knows with a bank....

- a house needs to be looked after, and if it is rented out there are always going to be issues with managing the rent, risks of getting difficult tenants etc.

It's not in Thai women's  DNA to worry about tomorrow. It's a westerner mentality. Maybe buy a piece of land for her with the spare money you have.