Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[Yumthai]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

No, it is a question to be asked of Thailand, as they have signed up to CRS and have to ensure that those foreigners that are tax residents of Thailand , from CRS Countries are not engaging in tax evasion and are tax compliant.

Feel free to ask them then, but you already know the answer ranging from "CRS what?" and blank looks.

[oldcpu]

24 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "tax exempt clearly assessable income". 

 

If you mean income that is tax exempt in the individual's home country, that home country tax exemption may have no bearing on whether the remittances are tax exempt under Thai tax laws. Or did you mean something else?

 

I suspect you agree, for some it depends on the DTA.  In some cases the DTA state only Thailand can tax, in other cases only the 'other country can tax', and in other cases both can tax where one has priority.

 

However I am considering more the case of CLEARLY assessable income from before 1-Jan-2024, which is now considered tax exempt.  There is no provision for that in the 2023 tax form (nor from what I could see in the English translation of the Thai 2024 tax form - albeit the translation I was using was admittedly poor).

 

I am also  considering more the case of the LTR visa where the Royal Decree for LTR visa specifically notes ASSESSABLE income for some LTR visa holders is tax exempt.  The Royal Decree specifically refers to ASSESSABLE INCOME  for those Visa holders and it does not in ANY location state anywhere that such income should then be treated as not assessable.  Possiby this is only 'wording'. Possibly not.

 

Of course there are differences of opinion as to how such income should be assessed (after it is known to be tax exempt) and I am not going to push one view over the other but I do note both views (ie such should be ONLY considered "not-assessable" (as it is tax exempt) ???   or such should be considered the assessable income that it is and a tax exemption applied to it ???   Dare I say some expats deny the others view? and either could be correct.  I openly admit I do not know.

 

Hence until all this settles, I plan to have no Thai income and to remit no income to Thailand.  I remitted a lot (to Thailand) previously when I was not a Thai tax resident.

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You're starting to get weird. You're saying, short of a direct deposit of a DTA exempt income amount, that self assessment of a Wise deposit won't work,

 

Read this carefully

 

Quote

The Common Reporting Standard (CRS) is an internationally agreed standard for the automatic exchange of financial account information between jurisdictions for tax purposes, to better combat tax evasion and ensure tax compliance.

 

How does a Wise transfer / other platforms available, into a Thai bank account prove that the remittance is not involved in tax evasion and is tax compliant ?

 

Do you really think that a " It's all kosher guv, honest " is suitable for compliance with an international agreement ?

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

I don't think that the information shared under either FATCA or CRS would drill down to the level of the makeup of remittances. My understanding is that the relevant reports exchange information on account balances and interest/dividend income paid by the financial institution that holds the account. Seeing a large account balance on a FATCA/CRS report may cause a tax authority to take a closer look at the account and the sources of those funds via an audit, however.

 

I don't think these reports drill down into the nature of deposits/withdrawals/remittances, etc, so FATCA/CRS would be of limited use to Thai tax authorities when it comes to remittances. It would be up to the Thai tax authorities to make inquiries based upon information that either the taxpayer or the local bank provides. 

 

I admit I may not have the full picture, so anyone with more complete information, please advise.

[NoDisplayName]

10 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Go to the post I made about 0800 Tuesday morning for a full explanation of the figures and how they ended up in the boxes.

 

Because I am not typing it out again, but you have read it wrong.

 

Thanks........found it.

 

So a bit of a conversation ensues and whether the lights came on and she finally grasped it, or she now wanted rid of me I have no way of knowing.

 

She then put the total figure in box 1 into box 2 and a 0 in boxes 17, 19 & 20.

 

Box 2 is exempted income for Section 2, line 6, which is the total of 5 types of exempted income (actually should be considered allowances or deductions), all exclusively related to Thai salary: 

 

1.  Provident fund contribution

2.  Government pension fund contribution

3.  Private teacher aid fund contribution

4.  Income exemption (disabled or over 65)

5.  Severance pay under labor law

 

That confirms she was just pulling it out'a her behind to get rid of you!   She subtracted your pension, but did not revise the other lines, still showing you had a tax due of 26,500 with matching taxes withheld.

 

But I see this was just a worksheet, not an actual paper return.  The numbers from blocks 1 and 2 would be transferred to the PN91.  Yet line 2 does not apply to foreign pensions.

 

No other office or officer will do this for you on a return, as you have to provide evidence for he exemptions.  Try this trick online and you'll have to provide proof, or explain in a personal interview.

Or pay the tax.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

I suspect you agree, for some it depends on the DTA.  In some cases the DTA state only Thailand can tax, in other cases only the 'other country can tax', and in other cases both can tax where one has priority.

 

However I am considering more the case of CLEARLY assessable income from before 1-Jan-2024, which is now considered tax exempt.  There is no provision for that in the 2023 tax form (nor from what I could see in the English translation of the Thai 2024 tax form - albeit the translation I was using was admittedly poor).

 

I am also  considering more the case of the LTR visa where the Royal Decree for LTR visa specifically notes ASSESSABLE income for some LTR visa holders is tax exempt.  The Royal Decree specifically refers to ASSESSABLE INCOME  for those Visa holders and it does not in ANY location state anywhere that such income should then be treated as not assessable.  Possiby this is only 'wording'. Possibly not.

 

Of course there are differences of opinion as to how such income should be assessed (after it is known to be tax exempt) and I am not going to push one view over the other but I do note both views (ie such should be ONLY considered "not-assessable" (as it is tax exempt) ???   or such should be considered the assessable income that it is and a tax exemption applied to it ???   Dare I say some expats deny the others view? and either could be correct.  I openly admit I do not know.

 

Hence until all this settles, I plan to have no Thai income and to remit no income to Thailand.  I remitted a lot (to Thailand) previously when I was not a Thai tax resident.

 

 

 

 

I have no insight into how the LTR and its tax benefits work. 

[anrcaccount]

4 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I don't think that the information shared under either FATCA or CRS would drill down to the level of the makeup of remittances. My understanding is that the relevant reports exchange information on account balances and interest/dividend income paid by the financial institution that holds the account. Seeing a large account balance on a FATCA/CRS report may cause a tax authority to take a closer look at the account and the sources of those funds via an audit, however.

 

I don't think these reports drill down into the nature of deposits/withdrawals/remittances, etc, so FATCA/CRS would be of limited use to Thai tax authorities when it comes to remittances. It would be up to the Thai tax authorities to make inquiries based upon information that either the taxpayer or the local bank provides. 

 

I admit I may not have the full picture, so anyone with more complete information, please advise.

 

You're correct, spot on, well said. 

 

I provided some more complete information on page 20 of this thread , towards the top. 

 

 

 

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I don't think that the information shared under either FATCA or CRS would drill down to the level of the makeup of remittance

 

Yes, correct.

 

3 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I don't think these reports drill down into the nature of deposits/withdrawals/remittances, etc, so FATCA/CRS would be of limited use to Thai tax authorities when it comes to remittances.

 

Correct again

 

4 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

t would be up to the Thai tax authorities to make inquiries based upon information that either the taxpayer or the local bank provides. 

 

Correct again.

 

It is the Revenue Departments ( Tax ) job to ensure that remittances into Thailand are not part of tax evasion and are tax compliant with both Thailand and the Home Country.

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I have no insight into how the LTR and its tax benefits work. 

 

Lol !

 

Thats similar (sort of) to what the Thai (Phuket branch) RD official advised my Thai wife re: my LTR Visa.

[topt]

20 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I admit I may not have the full picture, so anyone with more complete information, please advise.

Pretty much you nailed it.

Actual details see Section 2 which starts on page 24 of the attached report in this link-

https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/standard-for-automatic-exchange-of-financial-account-information-in-tax-matters-second-edition_9789264267992-en.html

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 

It is the Revenue Departments ( Tax ) job to ensure that remittances into Thailand are not part of tax evasion and are tax compliant with both Thailand and the Home Country.

 

I'm not sure that the Thai RD has much interest in ensuring a Thai taxpayer's compliance with foreign tax laws other than its obligations under various information sharing agreements such as FATCA and CRS. 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

49 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

 

It is the Revenue Departments ( Tax ) job to ensure that remittances into Thailand are not part of tax evasion and are tax compliant with both Thailand and the Home Country.

 

Many years ago I read that the RD's stated objective was to increase the amount of tax collected. No mention of ensuring compliance with Thai tax laws. Those might pretty much be the same thing in this environment, but it was strange to see it stated that way. It also invited speculation as to the methods that might be employed to increase collections.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

How does a Wise transfer / other platforms available, into a Thai bank account prove that the remittance is not involved in tax evasion and is tax compliant ?

 

Do you really think that a " It's all kosher guv, honest " is suitable for compliance with an international agreement ?

Yeah, for sure you've gotten weird, when you say a SWIFT or Wise transfer won't do -- only a direct deposit of non assessable incomes. What about a SWIFT transfer from an account holding only govt pensions.......... Nevermind.

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

You mean the forms which we are supposed to use for 2024 TY returns? So where have we all been able to obtain them, then? I'm sure that  @jwest10 for one would welcome you providing us with a suitable link as to where those Dr Who-esque geniuses in the TRD posted their 2024 forms around this time last year if not long before. (And I do mean their 2024 forms, not their 2023, 2022, 2021, etc ones).

 

Do try and keep up with all the posts on this thread and elsewhere on this specific point, if that's no too much trouble for you.

 

Screw helping out all you gormless stress monkeys and drama queens. You've all been dreaming about a new Thai tax thread to gurn about. You even wrote to Santa wanting one so have at it.

 

Losers.

[chiang mai]

Agreed, should probably rename the thread and call it anxiety central......so much angst.

[jwest10]

9 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Yes and never 100%!!!

 

Conversion not very accurate ah well we live in hope lol

[Henk Langeweg]

Time for a new, more serious Thread? But wait till the 2024 english Tax forms arrive.

[Rampant Rabbit]

14 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Was it not because people were caught lying about their financials ?

nah was bcuz the embassys were too lazy to do it

[The Cyclist]

6 hours ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, for sure you've gotten weird, when you say a SWIFT or Wise transfer won't do -- only a direct deposit of non assessable incomes. What about a SWIFT transfer from an account holding only govt pensions.......... Nevermind.

 

I never said such a thing. Why do you feel the need to outright lie ? Are you losing the plot or imbibing substances that you should clear of ?
 

I did give an example on the difference, from a tax evasion / tax compliance aspect. The Difference between money being direct deposited into a Thai Bank account from a Pension Administrator and  how transferring the same money via wise would raise red flags.

 

Anyway, riddle me this, since you keep banging on about America and FATCA.

 

If I am a retiree Resident Alien in the US.

 

Am I required to file a tax return and declare my worldwide income ? That is a rhetorical question, no need to answer.

 

But perhaps you could answer why Thailand should be any different to the US ?

 

Careful now, you can always take the 5th.

[Pluto56]

11 hours ago, TheAppletons said:

Worst thread ever.  So much self-anxiety for no reason whatsoever which only creates anxiety for others.

 

I have no assessable income due to DTA.  I won't be filing or "declaring" my non-assessable income because it's not required according to TRD.  One only needs to file a tax return if you exceed the 60/120/220 level of assessable income.

 

Continue to self-flagellate peeps.  You're only making your own life more stressful than it needs to be.  

 

 

I couldn't agree more. What a slog to get thru this.

[EVENKEEL]

25 minutes ago, Pluto56 said:

I couldn't agree more. What a slog to get thru this.

It's a gift that keeps on giving. 

[chiang mai]

9 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I'm not sure that the Thai RD has much interest in ensuring a Thai taxpayer's compliance with foreign tax laws other than its obligations under various information sharing agreements such as FATCA and CRS. 

I agree, they do not. But I'm absolutely certain the country doesn't want to be seen as the safe haven for illicit and questionable funds that it once. The only sure way to do that is to understand what the funds flow, into and out of the country is, at a detailed level. The outbound side is already quite restrictive, the inbound side is now coming into focus and I expect it to be similarly scrutinised. 

[quake]

2 hours ago, Henk Langeweg said:

Time for a new, more serious Thread? But wait till the 2024 english Tax forms arrive.

 

 Many could have died of old age by then. 

TIT.

 

[The Cyclist]

10 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I'm not sure that the Thai RD has much interest in ensuring a Thai taxpayer's compliance with foreign tax laws other than its obligations under various information sharing agreements such as FATCA and CRS. 

 

For Thai taxpayers I agree

 

But we are not talking about Thai taxpayers here. We are talking about people who remit money into Thailand, who in the main do not file tax returns or pay tax in Thailand.

 

You might want to look into who Thai banks under CRS have to report customer account information to. 
 

I'll save you the time and effort of looking. Its the Revenue Department.

[The Cyclist]

12 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Unless the RD changes PND90 and PND91 to specifically require declaration of non-assessable income, there is no way to report remittances of savings or income excluded from assessable income by DTA.

 

Or adds a PND 92 for foreign tax residents

 

That will cause a meltdown of epic proportions 😀😀

[DaRoadrunner]

On 1/7/2025 at 2:29 PM, Liquorice said:

And if they have to come get you, the penalties are 200,000 BHT fine, 1 year imprisonment, or both - then you can leave Thailand.

Like I said, if it goes that way it is time to leave. In my experience it is best to do nothing, wait n see what the Thais do, as often these stupid ideas never come to fruition. Furthermore, if they think they are going to tax my UK pension they are going to get told to shove it where the sun don't shine.

[DaRoadrunner]

On 1/7/2025 at 2:18 PM, Presnock said:

well, if one reads the informaion that they have on their web page, it talks in several paragraphs about the tax paid document needed to depart the country.  They could just say, "hey, it is in all our instructions" so folks cannot really say they don't know what they are talking about.  But of course, that same document could be used for extension of stay also.  

Long ago one used to have to obtain a tax clearance certificate to leave the country. At the tax office they once assessed me as owing 30,000 Baht. Figures all conjured up in their greedy imagination. I refused to pay and left the country. On the train I encountered the IO who asked where my tax clearance certificate was. He fined me 500 Baht, thereby saving 29,500. Amazing Thailand.

[jwest10]

3 hours ago, Henk Langeweg said:

Time for a new, more serious Thread? But wait till the 2024 english Tax forms arrive.

What year and what sites???

[Yumthai]

32 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

For Thai taxpayers I agree

 

But we are not talking about Thai taxpayers here. We are talking about people who remit money into Thailand, who in the main do not file tax returns or pay tax in Thailand.

 

You might want to look into who Thai banks under CRS have to report customer account information to. 
 

I'll save you the time and effort of looking. Its the Revenue Department.

I agree that with CRS implementation TRD will get yearly financial information in an automatic way they didn't get previously.

This is possibly millions of records containing FI customers ID, year-end balances and interests/dividends earned information.

 

The primarily purpose of this data collection is to be exchanged with CRS co-signatory jurisdictions.

 

What might TRD further do with that? First identify and extract Thai tax residents (need Immigration data), then compare year to year accounts balances (more or less money provide no clue on transactions), then decide who they want to audit? This is potentially hundreds of thousands audits.

[Henk Langeweg]

25 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

What year and what sites???

Within the 1st 3 months and this site will do I guess as long it doesn't get hijacked by one or 2 people, would be better if they use PM.