5 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

So guys in Bangkok and Pattaya can't leave their condos due to Trump. I honestly can't understand what you and others are complaining about. 

Maybe they're concerned their country is being run by ignorant goons who think they know the price of everything but actually know the value of nothing.

Ain't no love lost between the redneck and Trump's current favourite.

Bannon told writer James Billot with UnHerd that, “Musk is a parasitic illegal immigrant. He wants to impose his freak experiments and play-act as God without any respect for the country’s history, values, or traditions.”

16 minutes ago, bannork said:

Ain't no love lost between the redneck and Trump's current favourite.

Bannon told writer James Billot with UnHerd that, “Musk is a parasitic illegal immigrant. He wants to impose his freak experiments and play-act as God without any respect for the country’s history, values, or traditions.”

Bannon is right about this but I feel like I need a shower agreeing with him. But it happens. I agree with Trump that the penny should go.

19 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

1) There is no like.

and @Jingthingis too lazy to post any examples 

https://thehill.com/opinion/5148448-elon-musk-targeting-social-security/

Articles like these just provide more proof that America voted right this time.  People who believe this kind of slant aren't rational to begin with and should be ignored.

29 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

Articles like these just provide more proof that America voted right this time.  People who believe this kind of slant aren't rational to begin with and should be ignored.

In other wo4ds, you have nothing! 🙂

1 hour ago, candide said:

In other wo4ds, you have nothing! 🙂

No I pretty much summed it up.

5 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The point is that your retirees are collecting far more than they ever contributed. That is not fair. Let them collect the value of what their contributions are worth. You are demanding that they get a free ride. Why should they be treated  as a special class while others are denied basic benefits or have their benefits reduced? 

I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes during my working life.

 

Under the Australian system, I am eligible for an age pension provided I meet the income and assets test criteria.

 

Who the hell are you, to tell me where I should spend it?

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The point is that your retirees are collecting far more than they ever contributed. That is not fair. Let them collect the value of what their contributions are worth. You are demanding that they get a free ride. Why should they be treated  as a special class while others are denied basic benefits or have their benefits reduced? 

I'm not entirely clear what you're trying to say.

Are you saying it's not "fair" for Americans on S.S. to get a better bang for the buck by retiring in lower cost countries or are you just talking about a basic math issue with benefits for all SS recipients? On the expat issue many retired expats can't afford to live decently at all on low SS checks in the US so moving abroad can ba a survival tactic. You would deny them that? Also the government actually saves much more when retirees leave because you can't use Medicare abroad. In my case I pay about two thousand dollars annually for Part B which I can't use as well.

On the simple math point, well, that's the design of the SS system, the old age part anyway.

If you don't live long enough to ever claim or you delay your claim once eligible hoping to get a higher benefit later and die before you ever claim, like an insurance situation, it doesn't cost SS a penny.

If you live average, you probably get a "fair" deal relative to what you paid in.

If you live "extra" years, you "win" by getting a bigger payout.

There are ethical questions with this. For example some minority groups have a much lower life expectancy so as a class they're getting a raw deal. 

But other than that, I really fail to understand your complaint that some people live too long and supposedly get too much. 

 

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yep. It's already started and dramatically among Gen Z.

Too bad they weren't paying attention BEFORE the election.

Now it's too  late. Massive damage has already been done. Some it will be irreversible.

 

Donald Trump's Gen Z Popularity Plunges - Newsweek

 

 

This process will take some time, many did not realize that he was using Marxist propaganda to get elected, and that he is the world's greatest circus huckster. They got fooled into believing that he's a man that he claimed to be, but I in reality is not on any level. It's going to take a while until people realize that, and see it with their own eyes and understand that they elected an incredibly reckless and dangerous man with very little skill and  intelligence, who will diminish the US daily, rather than improve it. Don the wrecking machine is in full swing mode. So is Elon the fool. 

🚨 #BREAKING: Elon Musk says he and the President will be discussing a “DOGE dividend,” which will be a tax refund sent to EVERY taxpayer

 

This would be funded exclusively with a portion of total savings delivered by DOGE.

 

Looks like hard working taxpayers will receive a refund for much of the money stolen from us by corrupt organizations like USAID! 🔥

 

Source: https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1891984138615521710?t=2IZiepDwKPzfMfjExpIV3Q&s=19

8 hours ago, candide said:

Do you really believe  what you write, or are you just on propaganda mode? 

 

Of course, Both leaders do exactly what they promised the voters. On the other side MSM keeps lying to people. Stephen put it nicely:

 

.@StephenM: "I will be as excited as I want to be about the fact that we are saving Americans billions of dollars, that we are ending the theft and waste and grift and corruption ... You may not care about this issue, your colleagues may not care about this issue, but WE care

 

Source:

 

 

3 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

Articles like these just provide more proof that America voted right this time.  People who believe this kind of slant aren't rational to begin with and should be ignored.

 

Exactly, total nonsense propagated by MSM

Stephen Miller’s CNN interview is pure comedy.

 

He patiently explains how government works—over and over—only for CNN to keep missing the point.

 

"DOGE, formely U.S. Digistal Services, is an agency in the federal government that reports to the Executive Office of the President, which reports to the President of the United States."

 

"Again, the President appoints advisors, including Elon and myself and all the other staff here at the White House and then those staff in turn execute the President's commands."

 

When asked about energy department cuts, he pivots:

 

"Do you know where the $22 billion that the Department of Health and Human Services provided to illegal aliens under Joe Biden is right now?"

 

"The President is committed to preventing global nuclear war, which we have never been closer to, and he is leading peace negotations to end a war in Europe that could very well lead to nuclear war."

 

When CNN ask about President Trump firing military members he reponds: 

 

"Are you asking me if the President has the authority to remove a member of the military? If you agree there is waste, abuse, and corruption, why are you not celebrating these cuts and reforms?"

 

The more waste, fraud, and corruption are exposed, the harder the political establishment and legacy media scramble to defend the indefensible.

 

Source:

 

 

11 hours ago, Gknrd said:

I am going to take the OP "cut and paste" and forwarded it to DOGE on X.  With a note:  Please consider freezing all future raises on SS.  To retired US SS recipients living in foreign countries.  

Why?

I suggest OP to change the subject to this:

 

WHY IS ELON MUSK STEALING FROM MILLIONS OF 150-YEAR OLD AMERICANS?

-Traditional Media

 

 

6 hours ago, bannork said:

Maybe they're concerned their country is being run by ignorant goons who think they know the price of everything but actually know the value of nothing.

Right so billionaires are goons and broke pensioners know everything.

26 minutes ago, radiogeneris said:

Stephen Miller’s CNN interview is pure comedy.

 

He patiently explains how government works—over and over—only for CNN to keep missing the point.

 

"DOGE, formely U.S. Digistal Services, is an agency in the federal government that reports to the Executive Office of the President, which reports to the President of the United States."

 

"Again, the President appoints advisors, including Elon and myself and all the other staff here at the White House and then those staff in turn execute the President's commands."

 

When asked about energy department cuts, he pivots:

 

"Do you know where the $22 billion that the Department of Health and Human Services provided to illegal aliens under Joe Biden is right now?"

 

"The President is committed to preventing global nuclear war, which we have never been closer to, and he is leading peace negotations to end a war in Europe that could very well lead to nuclear war."

 

When CNN ask about President Trump firing military members he reponds: 

 

"Are you asking me if the President has the authority to remove a member of the military? If you agree there is waste, abuse, and corruption, why are you not celebrating these cuts and reforms?"

 

The more waste, fraud, and corruption are exposed, the harder the political establishment and legacy media scramble to defend the indefensible.

 

Source:

 

 

Talk about a beat down LOL

14 hours ago, placeholder said:

If they keep making that claim over and over and over via the right wing media, it starts to be believed. This phenomenon was well understood by  Joseph Goebbels.

 If you lie enough, you believe your own lies. Franz Suchomel

Applies to trump and his MAGA goobers…..

 

It’s the greatest lie the Washington establishment ever told—that an apolitical, impartial federal bureaucracy expertly controls the levers of government for the benefit of the American people.

Elon Musk and the DOGE team, at the direction of President Trump, are busting this myth. And they’re doing it for all Americans to see.

Musk and team are rooting out wasteful bureaucratic spending. In the process, they are exposing just how much the bureaucracy works for itself and not for “We, the People.”

It’s the greatest lie the Washington establishment ever told—that an apolitical, impartial federal bureaucracy expertly controls the levers of government for the benefit of the American people.

Elon Musk and the DOGE team, at the direction of President Trump, are busting this myth. And they’re doing it for all Americans to see.

Musk and team are rooting out wasteful bureaucratic spending. In the process, they are exposing just how much the bureaucracy works for itself and not for “We, the People.”

 

Full article here: 

 

https://x.com/Jim_Jordan/status/1891917161569935535?t=dw9YvkU2z6BtDzQrM5FXLg&s=19

 

 

11 hours ago, theblether said:

Idiots at it again. 

 

The social security system is operating on a 1970's computing framework. Musk knows all about default dates etc

 

He is driving towards modernising the system and deleting obsolete SSN's.

 

There is no doubt there is fraud. One woman was jailed for claiming her mother's pension for 48 years after her death. 48 years. Unbelievable. 

 

All numbers should auto deleted at 120 years. I think states should be checking "proof of life" at 100. It doesn't need to be intrusive. Literally a visit from a state official with a Presidential birthday card. We send out Royal birthday greetings to everyone who turns 100 in the UK. 

 

It's a nice touch but useful. 

All pensions after age 85 should be checked once a year for proof of life. Normally drivers need a doctor certificate yearly at certain age.

 

All contractor payments checked yearly as well. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 If you lie enough, you believe your own lies. Franz Suchomel

Applies to trump and his MAGA goobers…..

Tell us what lies Maga "goobers" beleive?

 

Just to be clear, "goobers" implies that Trump voters are drooling stupid rednecks. Assuming that is true, is it worse than being an adherent of a movement, Socialism, that shoots 20,000 polish officers in the back of the head in 72 hours? A movement that planned, and put into effect, policies that resulted in the starvation of more than 25 million people? A movement that packed women and children in ditches like sardines and shot them in the head?. A movement that paid and encouraged terrorist scum to dance in the streets over the murder of Americans?

 

A movement who stated goal is the destruction of my country?

 

Id rather be a goober.

34 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Right so billionaires are goons and broke pensioners know everything.

The quote I was referring to was about Trump, not Musk. And indeed Trump confirmed his stupidity today claiming Zelensky has an approval rating of only 4 % when the last poll gave him more than 50%.

He then claimed Ukraine could have stopped the war three years ago!

Hello Trump, it was Russia who invaded Ukraine, you idiot, Russia who has bombed Ukraine for three years despite claiming they would win in three days.

The embarrassment of having a President talk absolute tripe. 

 

1 minute ago, bannork said:

The quote I was referring to was about Trump, not Musk. And indeed Trump confirmed his stupidity today claiming Zelensky has an approval rating of only 4 % when the last poll gave him more than 50%.

He then claimed Ukraine could have stopped the war three years ago!

Hello Trump, it was Russia who invaded Ukraine, you idiot, Russia who has bombed Ukraine for three years despite claiming they would win in three days.

The embarrassment of having a President talk absolute tripe. 

 

Talk about dumb. Trump is playing to Putin's ego to get him on side. You lefties know nothing. It is a bargaining technique that is 50 years old.

12 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Talk about dumb. Trump is playing to Putin's ego to get him on side. You lefties know nothing. It is a bargaining technique that is 50 years old.

Please don't overestimate your dumb President's constant narcissistic dribble.

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

Please don't overestimate your dumb President's constant narcissistic dribble.

You obviously know nothing. There is a reason he's successful and all the poor people are cutting hair, driving Uber or being pretend experts online.

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes during my working life.

 

Under the Australian system, I am eligible for an age pension provided I meet the income and assets test criteria.

 

Who the hell are you, to tell me where I should spend it?

 

 

That's nice.

However, the reality in the USA is that the vast majority of social security beneficiaries will receive far more than what the actual value of their contributions is actually worth. If they were only receiving what their contributions were worth at the time of payout, you would have a reasonable argument.

 

A small number of US citizens carry the income tax burden of the USA.  0.02% of  federal taxpayers contribute 12.6% of federal income tax. 54% of US income tax is paid by 30% of the  taxpayers,. In the USA, around 110 million citizens pay  some federal tax, and for most it doesn't come anywhere close to paying for the value of goods and services they  receive from their government. And that's the problem of social security: The beneficiaries don't understand basic math and don't want to accept that they are being paid far more than their small contributions  could ever generate. This is why social security contributions must either increase, and/or the amount paid out per beneficiary be reduced over time by changing the qualifying age, and or no longer be adjusted for inflation.

12 hours ago, theblether said:

Idiots at it again. 

 

The social security system is operating on a 1970's computing framework. Musk knows all about default dates etc

 

He is driving towards modernising the system and deleting obsolete SSN's.

 

There is no doubt there is fraud. One woman was jailed for claiming her mother's pension for 48 years after her death. 48 years. Unbelievable. 

 

All numbers should auto deleted at 120 years. I think states should be checking "proof of life" at 100. It doesn't need to be intrusive. Literally a visit from a state official with a Presidential birthday card. We send out Royal birthday greetings to everyone who turns 100 in the UK. 

 

It's a nice touch but useful. 

"There is no doubt there is fraud. One woman..."

 

I'm sorry was that "one woman"?

28 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

That's nice.

However, the reality in the USA is that the vast majority of social security beneficiaries will receive far more than what the actual value of their contributions is actually worth. If they were only receiving what their contributions were worth at the time of payout, you would have a reasonable argument.

 

A small number of US citizens carry the income tax burden of the USA.  0.02% of  federal taxpayers contribute 12.6% of federal income tax. 54% of US income tax is paid by 30% of the  taxpayers,. In the USA, around 110 million citizens pay  some federal tax, and for most it doesn't come anywhere close to paying for the value of goods and services they  receive from their government. And that's the problem of social security: The beneficiaries don't understand basic math and don't want to accept that they are being paid far more than their small contributions  could ever generate. This is why social security contributions must either increase, and/or the amount paid out per beneficiary be reduced over time by changing the qualifying age, and or no longer be adjusted for inflation.

Income tax (FIT) and Social Security deductions (FICA) are distinct.

The expenses of the discretionary budget are distinct from the the Social Security Trust fund,

 

If you invested in an IRA would you be happy to withdraw only the amount you deposited?

 

Again I am reminded that there is no qualification of any kind required before a person can hold forth on AN.

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not entirely clear what you're trying to say.

Are you saying it's not "fair" for Americans on S.S. to get a better bang for the buck by retiring in lower cost countries or are you just talking about a basic math issue with benefits for all SS recipients? On the expat issue many retired expats can't afford to live decently at all on low SS checks in the US so moving abroad can ba a survival tactic. You would deny them that? Also the government actually saves much more when retirees leave because you can't use Medicare abroad. In my case I pay about two thousand dollars annually for Part B which I can't use as well.

On the simple math point, well, that's the design of the SS system, the old age part anyway.

If you don't live long enough to ever claim or you delay your claim once eligible hoping to get a higher benefit later and die before you ever claim, like an insurance situation, it doesn't cost SS a penny.

If you live average, you probably get a "fair" deal relative to what you paid in.

If you live "extra" years, you "win" by getting a bigger payout.

There are ethical questions with this. For example some minority groups have a much lower life expectancy so as a class they're getting a raw deal. 

But other than that, I really fail to understand your complaint that some people live too long and supposedly get too much. 

 

 

Many of your concerns are understandable, and I am not discounting their importance. The loss of contributions at death can seem unfair.  The counter argument is that while the  money may not be refundable, there are survivor benefits that will continue to benefit the spouse, divorced spouse, child, or dependent parent of someone who worked and paid Social Security taxes before they died. That is more than fair.

 

In respect to the amount available to beneficiaries, the stark reality is that people will collect more than their contributions over time are worth. I think it is self evident that the current model is not sustainable.

 

According to 2022 data, the United States (US) Social Security Administration (SSA) paid about 6.1 billion US dollars (USD) in benefits to 760,000 beneficiaries outside the country (LaPonsie, 2024).

That is crazy.    In respect to your argument that beneficiaries move elsewhere to get more "bang for the buck", that is their personal choice. If a beneficiary is only receiving what they contributed, then yes, you are right that the beneficiary should be able to live wherever they wish. it is their money. However, if someone is receiving more than they contributed, then it is reasonable that the funders be able to set a condition that funds be spent in the nation providing the additional benefit. Why should taxpayers be supporting a person in a foreign land? If the money paid to such people is spent in the USA, then there is an indirect economic offset to their financial burden.

Social security  payments were intended to assist destitute elderly and as as an income supplement for retired workers. It was never intended as a means to fund the retirement of people foreign lands, nor was it intended as a replacement for prudent retirement savings planning. FDR and the SS planners did not consider the impact of beneficiaries living outside of the USA.