Russian Warships & Convoy in the English Channel Exposes Weakness in UK Sanctions

[Mike_Hunt]

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

I can't see that I publish any propaganda. Neither American nor Russian.

You are pushing Russian propaganda. 

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

My apologies: I forgot to include the word 'European'. What you actually wrote was, "Open the European door ...". 

 

Now you can question my conclusion that Russia will see an opening of the door as vindication for its' actions, but you cannot deny what you wrote.

I'm not senile. I still know what I write. How about you🤣

What I'm trying to say is: there is a time after the war and a time to have relations with Russia

[Mike_Hunt]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

I'm not senile. I still know what I write. How about you🤣

What I'm trying to say is: there is a time after the war and a time to have relations with Russia

<deleted> Russia.   All Russia has to offer is war and natural gas. 

[Hellfire]

2 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

I'm not senile. I still know what I write. How about you🤣

What I'm trying to say is: there is a time after the war and a time to have relations with Russia

  So what else Putin should do, apart from violating all international laws, to be sanctioned by other countries? Nothing? Is he unpunishable in your eyes? And why is that?

[dinsdale]

12 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

That's an assumption.

 Maybe

IMO the US and the EU via NATO expansion bated Putin into this invasion and he took the bait. The goal was to severely weaken or destroy Russia's economy and military. A protracted war of attrition was the aim and that's what they got. The drip feeding of essential weapon systems to Ukraine early in the war is a good indicator of this. Ukraine had the invading forces on the back foot and could have pushed them back across the border into Russia. Why didn't this happen? Ukraine was merely a pawn in this game of global power as are all those killed.

[RayC]

10 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

I'm not senile. I still know what I write.

 

Then be more specific (and/or don't deny having made a statement)..

 

10 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

How about you🤣

 

I'm fine. Thanks for asking.

 

10 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

What I'm trying to say is: there is a time after the war and a time to have relations with Russia

 

There will hopefully soon be a time after the war and there may be a time to have relations with Russia - that rather depends on what Putin's concept of 'peace' looks like - but conducting 'business as usual' the day after the war ends is not that time.

 

(I'll save you the bother of replying: "I didn't say that").

[Mike_Hunt]

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

IMO the US and the EU via NATO expansion bated Putin into this invasion and he took the bait. 

That's not true at all. 

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, Hellfire said:

  So what else Putin should do, apart from violating all international laws, to be sanctioned by other countries? Nothing? Is he unpunishable in your eyes? And why is that?

US broke treaties as well. Russia can't rely on the West. 

And the sanctions don't work. Also due to fact that Russian economy is booming by selling oil and a tremendous demand for the war.

Trump was pulled already over the barrel. He's not a politician to negotiate but bragging to be a deal maker.

Whoever will end this war is not important but that it will happen.

And the it's about how to secure the peace by international guarantees.

[Hellfire]

8 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

IMO the US and the EU via NATO expansion bated Putin into this invasion and he took the bait. The goal was to severely weaken or destroy Russia's economy and military. A protracted war of attrition was the aim and that's what they got. The drip feeding of essential weapon systems to Ukraine early in the war is a good indicator of this. Ukraine had the invading forces on the back foot and could have pushed them back across the border into Russia. Why didn't this happen? Ukraine was merely a pawn in this game of global power as are all those killed.

So Putin is essentially fighting US and the West? Why does Trump seem to be on Putin’s side then? Is he a traitor or a spy?

[newbee2022]

10 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

IMO the US and the EU via NATO expansion bated Putin into this invasion and he took the bait. The goal was to severely weaken or destroy Russia's economy and military. A protracted war of attrition was the aim and that's what they got. The drip feeding of essential weapon systems to Ukraine early in the war is a good indicator of this. Ukraine had the invading forces on the back foot and could have pushed them back across the border into Russia. Why didn't this happen? Ukraine was merely a pawn in this game of global power as are all those killed.

Yes, but a lot of people (most on AN) see it different.

[newbee2022]

1 minute ago, Hellfire said:

So Putin is essentially fighting US and the West? Why does Trump seem to be on Putin’s side then? Is he a traitor or a spy?

Ask him. He's not a good politician and offered parts of Ukraine before negotiations start. Putin doesn't need to demand anything. He's getting it for free.

[Hellfire]

12 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

IMO the US and the EU via NATO expansion bated Putin into this invasion and he took the bait. The goal was to severely weaken or destroy Russia's economy and military. A protracted war of attrition was the aim and that's what they got. The drip feeding of essential weapon systems to Ukraine early in the war is a good indicator of this. Ukraine had the invading forces on the back foot and could have pushed them back across the border into Russia. Why didn't this happen? Ukraine was merely a pawn in this game of global power as are all those killed.

 So Ukraine would attack Russia if Putin not invaded first? I heard this ridiculous story already. Back in 1939, from the Nazi propagandists (Poland was going to attack Germany). All fascist regimes are quite similar.

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Hellfire said:

So Putin is essentially fighting US and the West? Why does Trump seem to be on Putin’s side then? Is he a traitor or a spy?

Only idiots fall for the Trump is on Putin's side line. If you notice my above post it was past tense. The US has a new administration and a new President that is trying to bring the war to an end. 

[Hellfire]

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

Ask him. He's not a good politician and offered parts of Ukraine before negotiations start. Putin doesn't need to demand anything. He's getting it for free.

 Looks like for you, as well as for Putin, the death of hundreds of thousands russian soldiers is an equivalent of «getting it for free”.

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

 So Ukraine would attack Russia if Putin not invaded first? I heard this ridiculous story already. Back in 1939, from the Nazi propagandists (Poland was going to attack Germany). All fascist regimes are quite similar.

There is absolutely no possible way you can extrapolate this from what I posted. Your reply is simply emotional, not rational. 

[Hellfire]

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Only idiots fall for the Trump is on Putin's side line. If you notice my above post it was past tense. The US has a new administration and a new President that is trying to bring the war to an end. 

  If the West always wanted to attack and destroy Russia - why did they wait for so long? Why did not they attack Russia when it was an easy prey -  back in 1991-1992? Why did they sent million of tons of humanitarian aid instead, which saved a lot of Russians from starving? 

[Mike_Hunt]

14 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

US broke treaties as well. Russia can't rely on the West. 

 

Which one? 

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

  If the West always wanted to attack and destroy Russia - why did they wait for so long? Why did not they attack Russia when it was an easy prey -  back in 1991-1992? Why did they sent million of tons of humanitarian aid instead, which saveda lot of Russians from starving? 

Have I ever said the west wanted to attack Russia? No I haven't. This is a proxy war. Do you know what that means? 

[Hellfire]

6 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

There is absolutely no possible way you can extrapolate this from what I posted. Your reply is simply emotional, not rational. 

Why there is no way? What you described is almost identical to Nazi propaganda—claiming that Poland, as a proxy of Britain and France, planned to attack Germany. Similarly, you argue that Ukraine, as a proxy, was going to invade Russia. And just like Hitler justified his actions with a ‘preemptive strike,’ Putin is doing the same. Similarity 100%

[Hellfire]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Have I ever said the west wanted to attack Russia? No I haven't. This is a proxy war. Do you know what that means? 

From your post above: “The goal was to severely weaken or destroy Russia's economy and military”. Why in 2022? Why not much earlier?

[newbee2022]

9 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

 Looks like for you, as well as for Putin, the death of hundreds of thousands russian soldiers is an equivalent of «getting it for free”.

If he will not get what he wants the war will go on. So simple.

[newbee2022]

6 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Which one? 

Minsk 1+2

[Hellfire]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

If he will not get what he wants the war will go on. So simple.

Ouh, I see now. And how do you know exactly what Putin wants and what will fully satisfy him?

[Hellfire]

Just now, newbee2022 said:

Minsk 1+2

The annexation of Crimea preceded any Minsk agreements. 

[bkk6060]

So weak.

[dinsdale]

3 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

From your post above: “The goal was to severely weaken or destroy Russia's economy and military”. Why in 2022? Why not much earlier?

A good question. The time for NATO expansion took some time. This IMO has been planned for quite some time. Have to wait for conditions to be right. There are books and PhD's being worked on about your very question I'm sure. This is global politics. Extremely high level stuff and very complex. 

[JonnyF]

The UK can't stop dinghys full of cultural enrichers. 

 

No chance against a Russian warship. 

 

It would take the soldiers an hour to do their makeup and argue about what toilet they were allowed to use. 

[newbee2022]

23 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Ouh, I see now. And how do you know exactly what Putin wants and what will fully satisfy him?

Troll

[newbee2022]

23 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

The annexation of Crimea preceded any Minsk agreements. 

No. Also the West fooled Putin with the 2+4 treaty.

[JonnyF]

The UK would probably be a more pleasant and free place to live under Putin than Starmer.