Report Abandoned Abroad: British Pensioner in Thailand Slams 'Immoral' Frozen Pensions Policy

[Mike_Hunt]

This is an unfair policy and needs to be changed. 

[simon43]

6 minutes ago, Blueman1 said:

Ahhhh ! But YOU Never Disclosed THAT Before, Did YOU ??

Duh!! But I'm not using that money to live on am I?  I live on less than 40k baht per month. Whether I have additional income is irrelevant if I don't actually use that income to live on....

[simon43]

7 minutes ago, Reddavy said:

So you have way more than the 40k you posted 🤷🏼 Your original post was complete BS then 🤷🏼

See my comment to the other person (like you) of limited IQ....

[Red Forever]

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

 

The govts want pensioners to keep pumping money into the local economy.

Since you are spending all your pension in Thailand, this is one way of punishing people for not contributing to the local economy in the UK. 

Call it what you will. They see it as unfair that all pension money is being spent in another country. 

 

Ah but they don’t see it as unfair that UK pensioners choosing to live in Philippines, USA etc are spending their money in another country so “they “ pay them the annual increases eh?

[sandyf]

21 minutes ago, Trip Hop said:

 

From recollection and a quick search to confirm my memory, not entirely true.  Contracting out SERPS was initially brought in for members of defined benefit (DB) schemes but later expanded to anyone who was in an appropriate government approved private or employer pension.  True that if the 2% reduction in NI was paid into a suitable scheme as required and invested in certain funds, it will have brought benefits.  However many lost out either through their money being invested in investment funds that didn't perform well or cashed in at the wrong time such as a stock market crash resulting in a lot of class actions for wrongful information being brought against the financial institutions that persuaded them to opt out.

You are wrong. Contracting out came about in the 60s under the GP scheme. that came to an end in 1975 and in 1978 the SERPS version was introduced. It wasn't until 1989 that people had a choice.

Your distorted view is irrelevant, the policy was blatant discrimination.

 

[Surasak]

4 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

I assume they pay less in than us American's, we pay in 12.4% of our pay to the US government Ponzi scheme. 

I believe the UK is now 18%. Even  more of a Ponzi scheme.

[Blueman1]

7 minutes ago, simon43 said:

See my comment to the other person (like you) of limited IQ....

So I'm of Limited IQ...Thank You Very Much Mr Tom Pepper...

[wensiensheng]

Feel sorry for him, but he knew, or should have known, his situation before deciding to retire to Thailand.

 

Bleating about it now does no good.

[Blueman1]

2 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

Feel sorry for him, but he knew, or should have known, his situation before deciding to retire to Thailand.

 

Bleating about it now does no good.

Well I For one Didn't KNOW,We were Never TOLD.....

[Trip Hop]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are wrong. Contracting out came about in the 60s under the GP scheme. that came to an end in 1975 and in 1978 the SERPS version was introduced. It wasn't until 1989 that people had a choice.

Your distorted view is irrelevant, the policy was blatant discrimination.

 

 

Get over it!

[emptypockets]

33 minutes ago, Muhendis said:

That is a pathetic argument.

If all these pensioners returned to the UK, it would still cost the government £1 billion annually.

It would be a good job if the expats were to exercise their voting right and vote for the politicians who would support them.  

Which will circulate throughout the UK economy.

[FRM-BKK]

5 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

No it is not. He is more likely to be being paid out more than what he paid in. It is an acknowledged fact that National Insurance contributions do not fully cover the cost of pension payouts for the majority of beneficiaries. It is not the UK taxpayer's fault that Thailand did not agree to a social security agreement with the UK. The EEA group of nations, the Philippines , much of the  larger Commonwealth Caribbean countries, Turkey and the USA  have an agreement.   He picked Thailand, a nation without an agreement.

 

There is no reciprocal  agreement with the UK. If there was, he could get his adjustment. It takes 2 to make an agreement and Thailand did not agree.

 

As a resident of Thailand, he is not paying any UK income tax is he? He pays his tax in Thailand, and most likely is at a lower tax rate than in the UK.  None of what he receives is  spent in the UK in  goods and services nor paid in taxes to the crown.

 

The pensioners in the UK are  paying taxes in the UK  on their income in excess of  £12,570 and they pay VAT and  many, pay council tax either in full or in part. The cost of living is higher for UK residents than it is for Thailand residents.  The UK pensioners spend their pensions in the UK  and many have a part  of their pensions clawed back by the UK government. 

 

This is such an ill informed, inaccurate and unsupported statement, full of preconceived ideas and written without any evidence to support it … apart from all that, it isn’t very helpful !!

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, Tiger1980 said:

it is successive British governments who have refused to make an agreements with most other countries, mainly Canada,Australia, New Zealand etc etc.

By living in Thailand he is actually saving the British Government money as he does not receive a free bus pass, possible subsidised housing and of course the use of the NHS. Just think if all the elderly British ex - pats returned home the NHs would collapse. He and all the elderly ex - pats are in fact saving the British Exchequer billions a year, what I cannot understand is why successive government have not been savvy enough to realize that by encouraging the elderly to emigrate the country would save a fortune.

 

Another factor to consider is that British pensioners receive approximately £10,000 pa, maybe after paying into the system for 40+ years, while the cost of the Illegal Economic migrants is approximately £42,000 pa.

Please remind me, when have any successive UK governments had any savvy?

[Brave-Fart]

4 hours ago, frank83628 said:

Sorry but if after 60yrs of working you only have the state pension to survive on you werent very good with your money.

sorry for you, but I will endeavor to educate you , please read the following :   

• Insufficient savings or investments

  • Not saving enough during working years.

  • Living expenses outpacing savings rate.

• Poor investment returns

  • Bad investment choices (too conservative or too risky).

  • Market downturns at critical times (especially right before or after retirement).

• High cost of living

  • Living in an expensive location.

  • Inflation eroding purchasing power faster than anticipated.

• Unexpected expenses

  • Major health issues or medical bills.

  • Family emergencies (supporting children, parents, etc.).

• Debt problems

  • Carrying mortgage, credit card, or personal loan debts into retirement.

• Underestimating retirement duration

  • Living longer than expected (great for life, tough for finances).

• Lifestyle inflation

  • Increasing spending habits when income rises, rather than saving the extra.

• Lack of a clear financial plan

  • No retirement budget or withdrawal strategy.

  • No contingency planning for market crashes or emergencies.

• Unexpected economic events

  • Severe recessions or financial crises.

  • Currency devaluation (important if living abroad).

• Changes in government policies

  • Reduced pension or superannuation benefits.

  • Higher taxes or loss of social security supports.

• Divorce or relationship breakdown

  • Legal costs and asset division can severely impact retirement savings.

• Bad financial advice or scams

  • Falling victim to fraud or poor financial advice.

• Over-reliance on one asset

  • For example, counting only on a house appreciating or a business sale.

• Health preventing work continuation

  • Forced early retirement due to injury, illness, or disability.

• Poor insurance coverage

  • Not enough health, life, or long-term care insurance coverage.

• so as you can see there are many reasons which could lead to an individual not being financially well off later in life , and perhaps stop showing a lack of wisdom and maybe just show more empathy and understanding.

[Tiger1980]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Please explain how that works. You go back to UK for how long?

When you return your state pension reverts to the pension applicable to that date. Should you return to Thailand within 2 yrs your pension will return to the rate of your previous frozen pension. If you remain in the UK for 2yrs or more and then return to live in Thailand, your pension will once again be frozen to the rate of when you return.

 

Nobody has mentioned that pensions paid by local government or other government departments are not frozen. The same applies to the high pension received by MP.  Therefore we must conclude that Their cost of living increases each year unlike those suffered by those on a frozen pension.

[steve187]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

Honest question here...  Other than "I like Thailand" (or the Thai family) what would be the impediment to picking up sticks, cashing in your 400K baht (or 800K) and moving to the Philippines?  I'm looking more for a comparison of the legal and financial hurdles than a discussion of the relative merits of life in LOS vs Phils..  Is that even doable?

 

And if a Brit did move to the Phils, would their pension be boosted all at once or would it just start where it was in Thailand and be adjusted each year?

 

 

would be fully upgraded as if you never left the UK

5 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

No it is not. He is more likely to be being paid out more than what he paid in. It is an acknowledged fact that National Insurance contributions do not fully cover the cost of pension payouts for the majority of beneficiaries. It is not the UK taxpayer's fault that Thailand did not agree to a social security agreement with the UK. The EEA group of nations, the Philippines , much of the  larger Commonwealth Caribbean countries, Turkey and the USA  have an agreement.   He picked Thailand, a nation without an agreement.

 

There is no reciprocal  agreement with the UK. If there was, he could get his adjustment. It takes 2 to make an agreement and Thailand did not agree.

 

As a resident of Thailand, he is not paying any UK income tax is he? He pays his tax in Thailand, and most likely is at a lower tax rate than in the UK.  None of what he receives is  spent in the UK in  goods and services nor paid in taxes to the crown.

 

The pensioners in the UK are  paying taxes in the UK  on their income in excess of  £12,570 and they pay VAT and  many, pay council tax either in full or in part. The cost of living is higher for UK residents than it is for Thailand residents.  The UK pensioners spend their pensions in the UK  and many have a part  of their pensions clawed back by the UK government. 

 

all money generated in the UK is taxed in the UK

[Surasak]

23 minutes ago, Surasak said:

I believe the UK is now 18%. Even  more of a Ponzi scheme.

My correction here. I am reliably informed it is 8%. it was reduced by the previous government.

[Brave-Fart]

• for all of those that are inclined to state that this guy being a retired  banker , should have been more financially secure than he is see below a few examples which could lead to anyone being in his position.

•  

•  

• Insufficient savings or investments

  • Not saving enough during working years.

  • Living expenses outpacing savings rate.

• Poor investment returns

  • Bad investment choices (too conservative or too risky).

  • Market downturns at critical times (especially right before or after retirement).

• High cost of living

  • Living in an expensive location.

  • Inflation eroding purchasing power faster than anticipated.

• Unexpected expenses

  • Major health issues or medical bills.

  • Family emergencies (supporting children, parents, etc.).

• Debt problems

  • Carrying mortgage, credit card, or personal loan debts into retirement.

• Underestimating retirement duration

  • Living longer than expected (great for life, tough for finances).

• Lifestyle inflation

  • Increasing spending habits when income rises, rather than saving the extra.

• Lack of a clear financial plan

  • No retirement budget or withdrawal strategy.

  • No contingency planning for market crashes or emergencies.

• Unexpected economic events

  • Severe recessions or financial crises.

  • Currency devaluation (important if living abroad).

• Changes in government policies

  • Reduced pension or superannuation benefits.

  • Higher taxes or loss of social security supports.

• Divorce or relationship breakdown

  • Legal costs and asset division can severely impact retirement savings.

• Bad financial advice or scams

  • Falling victim to fraud or poor financial advice.

• Over-reliance on one asset

  • For example, counting only on a house appreciating or a business sale.

• Health preventing work continuation

  • Forced early retirement due to injury, illness, or disability.

• Poor insurance coverage

  • Not enough health, life, or long-term care insurance coverage.

[GammaGlobulin]

6 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Not the Christopher Lee ,I knew , We all would like more pension ,but the Government

won't give it ,they need the money for all the immigrants ,but Chris knew coming here

what the situation was , myself I get 90 quid a week ,because I retired early ,it is what

it is , no way is the Government going to help us ,it's like out of sight out of mind , 

 

regards Worgeordie

 

Self-reliance was once seen as a virtue, especially during WW2, and the Blitz, when even ration books were scarce.

 

Still, how fortunate to be alive and well in Thailand where housing prices, and a lot more, is so cheap.

 

 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

I assume they pay less in than us American's, we pay in 12.4% of our pay to the US government Ponzi scheme. 

And do  US citizens get any tax free allowances or deductions that can be offset against tax payable?

[parallelman]

6 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Not the Christopher Lee ,I knew , We all would like more pension ,but the Government

won't give it ,they need the money for all the immigrants ,but Chris knew coming here

what the situation was , myself I get 90 quid a week ,because I retired early ,it is what

it is , no way is the Government going to help us ,it's like out of sight out of mind , 

 

regards Worgeordie

Same here but mine iis less than yours at ₤79 a week

[lordgrinz]

34 minutes ago, Surasak said:

I believe the UK is now 18%. Even  more of a Ponzi scheme.

Yikes! 😬 

[Surasak]

2 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

Yikes! 😬 

Sorry lordgrinz. I made a mistake, but have corrected it. 8%, as the previous government reduced it early last year I believe.

[Kinnock]

5 hours ago, save the frogs said:

 

The govts want pensioners to keep pumping money into the local economy.

Since you are spending all your pension in Thailand, this is one way of punishing people for not contributing to the local economy in the UK. 

Call it what you will. They see it as unfair that all pension money is being spent in another country. 

 

I reckon most pensioner in the UK take money out of the system by requiring free hospital treatment.

 

Pensioners in Thailand cost them nothing and some also pay UK taxes.

[sambum]

6 hours ago, Bannoi said:

DELETED

 

 

[KannikaP]

3 hours ago, Trip Hop said:

 

I don't think that there is a set period.  You just go back, inform the DSS/HMRC that you are back living in the country and give them an address.  I suppose it will take a few weeks for any paperwork to be sent out and completed but as soon as that's done you can technically leave again.  

Problem there is if someone returns to UK and tells DWP they are 'back for good', they will ask how long have they been out of UK, deduct any increases you have got illegally since then. Then they will keep their eye on your Passport comings and goings.

[KannikaP]

2 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

I reckon most pensioner in the UK take money out of the system by requiring free hospital treatment.

...by NOT requiring NHS treatment.......surely.

[Asquith Production]

5 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

As a resident of Thailand, he is not paying any UK income tax is he? He pays his tax in Thailand, and most likely is at a lower tax rate than in the UK.  None of what he receives is  spent in the UK in  goods and services nor paid in taxes to the crown.

I, like  many, are still paying tax in the UK. If you have a state and private pension you will be paying tax if it exceed your personal allowance.

 

Okay I do not spend any of my money in the UK but equally I do not use any of its services such as the NHS.

 

The UK government discriminates based on your address.

[FRM-BKK]

The U.K. Government was challenged in the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR) in January 2009 by a group of of affected retirees.

The ECtHR’s verdict in March 2010 was that the UK Government had not violated article 14  of the EU Human Rights Act, when taken with article 1 of Protocol 1.

Meaning that the U.K. Government had a very strong mandate to maintain their position on frozen pensions.

I think that they are highly unlikely to change, despite this gross injustice !!

[Clydesdale]

"For decades successive governments have blatently (sic) lied and misled the public over the state pension....

The UK state pension is probably the greatest unwritten financial scandal of the last century.": CORRECT.

 

UK state pensions may be good for another two/three years. Government already deep in debt and deficit spending still rising.  The money has to come from somewhere.