Analysis Thailand in Trouble: Expats Exit as Vietnam Steals the Show

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, bbbbooboo said:

hmmm… yawn …. this “news” has been happening for the past 10 yrs

No,it hasn't. Pre Covid a record of 40 million visitors, which i found way too busy. 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, RAZZELL said:

The simple fact is that in many ways Thailand is no longer "cheap".

 

Prices are literally double what they were from 20 years ago (in £, $ or €.)

 

Unless you want to eat in cheap restaurants or drink on the steps of a 7-11 it costs a mint 

 

I haven't been to Vietnam in 6 years but I will go again soon.

 

One of my extremely well travelled friends raves about parts of Indonesia. 

 

I need to explore that more to.

That can be said about anywhere in the world, covid seemed like it was a generational opportunity for people to engage in price gouging, and prices continue to go up in price.  In the US I am fairly certain inflation continues to rage at about 20% annually, every time I go back things have gone up 10 to 15% in 6 months or less. So this is not exclusive to Thailand. I do notice that inflation here is less than it is in most other places, and though Thailand has gotten more expensive it's still very reasonable. 

[sikishrory]

How does the banking compare?

Just noticed this https://news.laodong.vn/kinh-doanh/hon-86-trieu-tai-khoan-ngan-hang-chua-dinh-danh-se-bi-xoa-so-1526286.ldo I wonder if they are also wreaking havoc on some peoples bank accounts over there

[Reddavy]

6 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Thailand is ten times better than Communist Vietnam.

Thailand has visas to suit everyone. 
Next week they will be Cambodia is going to beat Thailand.

Next month the Philippines.

 

But the reality is Thailand is the best. Always has been, always will be.

You need to take your head out the sand my friend. Thailand is on a steady downfall. It was before covid and now it’s getting worse. I say that as somebody who has been coming here for nearly 30 years and loves Thailand. But now times have changed you used to be treat like a king everywhere you went in years gone by now it’s just about how much money they can get out of us farangs. Long gone is the welcome mat now it has become one big scam. It gives me no pleasure to say it but the clowns who run the show have f****d it up  for the vast majority of the rest of the country. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

The list of reasons why I should leave Thailand is long and getting longer each year.

The reason I stay in Thailand is a very short list of one - my lovely wonderful Thai wife of over 13 years. 

But because we are both Aussie citizens, when we get 'too old' we will be going back.

Thailand is not a place to get very old - the medical costs are horrendous - by that I mean about 80.

 

[sambum]

6 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Although many expats have already noticed this and talked about it here on the forum, Thailand is refusing to listen.. This is the result of outdated and conservative laws, and requirements and lack of changing .. Welcome retirees and expats instead of chasing them away, because once they are gone they will never come or come back again.. 

 

"...........once they are gone they will never come or come back again.."

 

This is very true, and also a pnoit which should be mentioned is the fact that these disillusioned retirees and expats are bound to mention the fact to their friends "back home", and many people who still think of Thailand as "The Land of the Smile" may well be put off by the realities passed on to them by people who have first hand experience of the place!  

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 minute ago, Reddavy said:

You need to take your head out the sand my friend. Thailand is on a steady downfall. It was before covid and now it’s getting worse. I say that as somebody who has been coming here for nearly 30 years and loves Thailand. But now times have changed you used to be treat like a king everywhere you went in years gone by now it’s just about how much money they can get out of us farangs. Long gone is the welcome mat now it has become one big scam. It gives me no pleasure to say it but the clowns who run the show have f****d it up  for the vast majority of the rest of the country. 

Very true - before the Junta it was great. Remember when the Junta did that TM30 BS - then quietly stopped that. Remember when they did that 'Expats must pay income taxes' - then quietly stopped that. Remember when they wanted 500 Baht for me to enter but 50 Baht for the Wife. Remember when the Judge stated that charging Expats 3-5 times extra was not allowed under the Constitution, but it was OK because Expats are rich and it is good for the Thais.  And on and on and on it goes. 

 

And dont forget you must report to your Parole Officer every 3 months, and you must tell your Parole Officer if you change address, and you must tell your Parole Office if you leave the Province for over 1-2 days and again upon your return, and you must apply and pay to leave and re-enter the country, and you must apply and pay every 12 months to do that all again for the next 12 months - and we dont give a flying copulation if you have been here 10+ years.  And no - you cannot buy land even if you have lived here 20 years. And no - we dont want you to become a Resident or Citizen.  

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, AhFarangJa said:

Nail on the head, the elite government do not want us unless you are a multi millionaire, so they slowly turn the screw to push us out. Marriage, having children, buying houses, non of it matters to them.

Put 400K in the bank and you don't have any visa worries. No need to be a millionaire.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 minutes ago, sambum said:

 

"...........once they are gone they will never come or come back again.."

 

This is very true, and also a pnoit which should be mentioned is the fact that these disillusioned retirees and expats are bound to mention the fact to their friends "back home", and many people who still think of Thailand as "The Land of the Smile" may well be put off by the realities passed on to them by people who have first hand experience of the place!  

And that is exactly why Thailand is not the number one place for retiree Expats in SEAsia anymore. When I started looking and checking them out in 2010, Thailand was way ahead - Philippines a distant second. Now it has all changed - the other countries got better and Thailand got worse.  If I was researching where to retire now, it would not be Thailand. I never was a Sexpat but I would probably visit - but I would be living elsewhere - Vietnam, Philippines or Malaysia (Penang) look better than Thailand - even Indonesia (Bali) if it is not too crowded.  If I fell into some money - Singapore for sure.  If I fell into serious money - then a mansion overlooking the ocean in north Queensland (Cairns).  No I am not rich, but I do have money - much more than just a pension - got lucky and worked hard at it. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Put 400K in the bank and you don't have any visa worries. No need to be a millionaire.

Dont forget to report to your parole officer !!

[TroubleandGrumpy]

29 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

That can be said about anywhere in the world, covid seemed like it was a generational opportunity for people to engage in price gouging, and prices continue to go up in price.  In the US I am fairly certain inflation continues to rage at about 20% annually, every time I go back things have gone up 10 to 15% in 6 months or less. So this is not exclusive to Thailand. I do notice that inflation here is less than it is in most other places, and though Thailand has gotten more expensive it's still very reasonable. 

Yes it is - but that is not the4 main problem here. If anyone wants cheap living with English speaking and reasonable services etc etc then India is the best bet.  However, India has some disadvantages - and unless you have been there, you will never know - suffice to stay I will never visit there again.   

[FritsSikkink]

5 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Dont forget to report to your parole officer !!

Submit online, 2 minutes work.

BOI visa and work permit, 30 minutes.

[ikke1959]

51 minutes ago, dutch boy said:

"Conservative laws?" Such as the near total acceptance of prostitution and the allowance of the indulgence of ganja is conservative? And the almost total lack of enforcement of laws is conservative? 

no enforcement of law is because the RTP is corrupt and too lazy to enforce any law.. How many crackdowns on black smoke fuming cars have there been already and how many do you see daily??? I at least 3 or 4 every day.... and talking about air quality .. Now there is enforcement of helmets.. I don't know if you can see it but there are signs already at least in my province that you get 2 warnings and than you can get a fine....and in Thai news they have mentioned that 2k is too expensive for poor people... My answer is " wear a helmet and you will not be fined"... Is this not outdated??  and how about the conservative labour laws?? in fact you are not allowed to work in your garden as it is a protected Thai job and also wash your car.. Even be careful if you bring family or friends to the airport as it could be seen as an illegal taxi... Welcoming tourists, expats and retirees??? Yes you are a boy, because you don't know what is going on.. Life experience comes in years

[TroubleandGrumpy]

4 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Submit online, 2 minutes work.

BOI visa and work permit, 30 minutes.

Sometimes works - sometimes does not - last 2 times I have had to report in person.

I asked and they had no idea - I rang Bangkok and they said no idea ask local Office.

I will try again online again next time - fingers crossed.

 

But the issue is that I have to report - like a prisoner on parole - retired Expats dont in many other countries.

You are working and with a BOI Visa are not really the issue mate - retired Expats and those visiting long-term.

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Donga said:

* Struggle with this dual pricing whinge as vast majority of our spending goes on groceries from Lotus or market, cafes with menus, petrol, some beer, uh? Doesn't bother me to pay more when visiting a National Park, such a petty whinge.

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

5. I've had some very positive experiences with the healthcare system here in Thailand, and I consider it to be on par or better than it is in the US for a fraction of the cost. Can Vietnam rival that? 

 

I wanted to take just these two particular points because many of the others are largely subjective. That said, I broadly agree that Thailand stands out as a significantly better destination for foreigners compared to its neighbouring countries.

 

However, healthcare remains a serious concern.

 

First, there's the issue of dual pricing. At the lighter end of the scale, we see it in places like national parks - and while it's objectionable in principle, most people aren't too bothered. In the private sector, we have the freedom to take our business elsewhere. The real problem arises with state-sanctioned dual pricing in government hospitals. If we fall seriously ill, we're can be charged substantially more than a Thai citizen would be for the same treatment (i.e. long term cancer treatment and operations costing 2 Million Baht instead of 1 MB.

In my view, this is indefensible. When it comes to healthcare, there should be an option for long-term residents to pay into the system and receive equitable care. For me, this is where dual pricing becomes genuinely troubling - it's the big stuff that matters.

 

Secondly, while the quality of treatment is generally excellent, there's a troubling lack of accountability when mistakes are made - a factor that certainly helps keep costs down. Personally, I’d prefer to be in a private hospital in Bangkok over most places in the world. But the question is - at 80, will I still be able to afford the premiums? And that brings us full circle, back to the need for a system that ensures long-term, affordable care.

 

I can’t say whether neighbouring countries offer anything better in this regard, but this remains a major red flag when considering a long-term life in Thailand, especially if one hopes to grow old in comfort with the security of health care.

 

 

 

[HappyExpat57]

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

 

There seems to be a lot of BS in this article.

 

Dual pricing at medical facilities? I seriously doubt it. 

Street markets? No, there's no dual pricing. And things are so dirt cheap in street markets anyway. If you can't afford street food, you ain't gonna survive in Vietnam either. 

 

Yeah. National Parks maybe. And people are flocking to National Parks every day, right? And temples. 

 

 

I've only seen a few places that had open dual pricing, and the markup was insignificant. I pick up my passport tomorrow with a freshly minted extension - there was no complicated bureaucratic process, same as every year. Fear mongering article seeking clicks and traffic.

[leeedwards]

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

 

There seems to be a lot of BS in this article.

 

Dual pricing at medical facilities? I seriously doubt it. 

Street markets? No, there's no dual pricing. And things are so dirt cheap in street markets anyway. If you can't afford street food, you ain't gonna survive in Vietnam either. 

 

Yeah. National Parks maybe. And people are flocking to National Parks every day, right? And temples. 

 

 

Have you ever had any medical treatment here? Myself, 4 surgeries, 20 rounds of chemo, 7 CT scans and 4 MRI, and that's without all the doctors appointments in-between,  and let me tell u as someone who also had insurance, were it not for my pink ID card I would have had to have paid at least ouble every single time o gave blood, which was before every single dose of chemo at the hospital, which was at least 60 times, so don't say there's no double pricing. The hospital and surgery prices were also different but luckily my insurance paid for .ost of it. Some things weren't, such as ct and mri scans, but some most definitely were, as my incredibly helpful and intelligent thai wife showed me on numerous occasions.  I'm still grateful for the initial speed of diagnosis here, but using government hospitals is a nightmare because they don't give times for appointments only the day. Anyway, there IS double pricing.

[ujayujay]

7 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Thailand is ten times better than Communist Vietnam.

Thailand has visas to suit everyone. 
Next week they will be Cambodia is going to beat Thailand.

Next month the Philippines.

 

But the reality is Thailand is the best. Always has been, always will be.

🫣

[blaze master]

3 hours ago, Wake Up1 said:

Good for most of us if the daily complainers leave. They are not wanted here and hopefully they can afford to take their complaints and lack of adequate funds elsewhere. Find a cheaper place to be miserable please 🙏 

 

I see you don't want to face reality.

[Shocked farang]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

That can be said about anywhere in the world, covid seemed like it was a generational opportunity for people to engage in price gouging, and prices continue to go up in price.  In the US I am fairly certain inflation continues to rage at about 20% annually, every time I go back things have gone up 10 to 15% in 6 months or less. So this is not exclusive to Thailand. I do notice that inflation here is less than it is in most other places, and though Thailand has gotten more expensive it's still very reasonable. 

The official inflation in 2024 in the US was 2.9% based on the consumer price index.

[sambum]

43 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Put 400K in the bank and you don't have any visa worries. No need to be a millionaire.

 

I've heard (no proof, but fairly reliable hearsay) that if you are married to a Thai national and suddenly "snuff it", your spouse can sometimes have a nightmare trying to get the bank to release the money to her - even if rhe details are specified in a will.

[Donga]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I wanted to take just these two particular points because many of the others are largely subjective. That said, I broadly agree that Thailand stands out as a significantly better destination for foreigners compared to its neighbouring countries.

 

However, healthcare remains a serious concern.

 

First, there's the issue of dual pricing. At the lighter end of the scale, we see it in places like national parks - and while it's objectionable in principle, most people aren't too bothered. In the private sector, we have the freedom to take our business elsewhere. The real problem arises with state-sanctioned dual pricing in government hospitals. If we fall seriously ill, we're can be charged substantially more than a Thai citizen would be for the same treatment (i.e. long term cancer treatment and operations costing 2 Million Baht instead of 1 MB.

In my view, this is indefensible. When it comes to healthcare, there should be an option for long-term residents to pay into the system and receive equitable care. For me, this is where dual pricing becomes genuinely troubling - it's the big stuff that matters.

 

Secondly, while the quality of treatment is generally excellent, there's a troubling lack of accountability when mistakes are made - a factor that certainly helps keep costs down. Personally, I’d prefer to be in a private hospital in Bangkok over most places in the world. But the question is - at 80, will I still be able to afford the premiums? And that brings us full circle, back to the need for a system that ensures long-term, affordable care.

 

I can’t say whether neighbouring countries offer anything better in this regard, but this remains a major red flag when considering a long-term life in Thailand, especially if one hopes to grow old in comfort with the security of health care.

Fair enough, Richard and I don't know enough about it, though do think about later health care from time to time, e.g. would I want to spend my last days here, or Sydney. Pros and cons with both.

Having said that, am very proactive in looking after myself with activities and less drinking but know that age will catch up to me at some point. Have heard a lot of positive stories about Thai public healthcare e.g. sister in law doing well after 3 brain tumour ops in hardly the medical precinct of Det Udom, various farang tales including where they've paid for better rooms, but not that expensive. Also heard a few personal horror stories, but one hears about them back in Australia as well. There's always the private system, which can be expensive without coverage, which itself is not cheap and so far I've not paid for that, though have private coverage in Australia. I get 6 months free Credit Card travel insurance while here.

I don't have a clue what it's like in neighbouring countries but suspect it would be no better.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

 

I've heard (no proof, but fairly reliable hearsay) that if you are married to a Thai national and suddenly "snuff it", your spouse can sometimes have a nightmare trying to get the bank to release the money to her - even if rhe details are specified in a will.

Absolutely - a friend of my wife did too. But what I suggested was that she take out some of the money anyway and use it to pay for things - she had the PIN.  But it took a long time for her to get the rest - minus fees and charges - she agreed to accept them rather than argue about it - a few thousand baht all up.  I have told the wife that if I do pass here, she is to immediately transfer 99% of the money into her bank account using the online banking. If she is ever asked I have advised her to say that I said to do that before I passed - and it is in my Thai Will too. 

[sambum]

17 minutes ago, leeedwards said:

Have you ever had any medical treatment here? Myself, 4 surgeries, 20 rounds of chemo, 7 CT scans and 4 MRI, and that's without all the doctors appointments in-between,  and let me tell u as someone who also had insurance, were it not for my pink ID card I would have had to have paid at least ouble every single time o gave blood, which was before every single dose of chemo at the hospital, which was at least 60 times, so don't say there's no double pricing. The hospital and surgery prices were also different but luckily my insurance paid for .ost of it. Some things weren't, such as ct and mri scans, but some most definitely were, as my incredibly helpful and intelligent thai wife showed me on numerous occasions.  I'm still grateful for the initial speed of diagnosis here, but using government hospitals is a nightmare because they don't give times for appointments only the day. Anyway, there IS double pricing.

 

I had a cataract removed and a replacement lens fitted privately and it cost 75,000 baht (special lens to improve far and mid distance vision). A friend of my Thai wife had a similar procedure done (standard lens) and it  cost her 6,000 baht, so don't tell me there is no double pricing!

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, leeedwards said:

but using government hospitals is a nightmare because they don't give times for appointments only the day

 

Just walked into a govt hospital today around 11 AM. It was packed. The waiting times must be 3-4 hours easily. 

 

Anyway, this article is Thailand vs Vietnam. I doubt the medical system is much different. It might be slightly cheaper? Maybe not as good? We simply do not have much information about Vietnam as there are no expats from Vietnam on this forum. And these articles are being generated by ChatGPT, which has never lived in Vietnam either. 

 

[sambum]

37 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I wanted to take just these two particular points because many of the others are largely subjective. That said, I broadly agree that Thailand stands out as a significantly better destination for foreigners compared to its neighbouring countries.

 

However, healthcare remains a serious concern.

 

First, there's the issue of dual pricing. At the lighter end of the scale, we see it in places like national parks - and while it's objectionable in principle, most people aren't too bothered. In the private sector, we have the freedom to take our business elsewhere. The real problem arises with state-sanctioned dual pricing in government hospitals. If we fall seriously ill, we're can be charged substantially more than a Thai citizen would be for the same treatment (i.e. long term cancer treatment and operations costing 2 Million Baht instead of 1 MB.

In my view, this is indefensible. When it comes to healthcare, there should be an option for long-term residents to pay into the system and receive equitable care. For me, this is where dual pricing becomes genuinely troubling - it's the big stuff that matters.

 

Secondly, while the quality of treatment is generally excellent, there's a troubling lack of accountability when mistakes are made - a factor that certainly helps keep costs down. Personally, I’d prefer to be in a private hospital in Bangkok over most places in the world. But the question is - at 80, will I still be able to afford the premiums? And that brings us full circle, back to the need for a system that ensures long-term, affordable care.

 

I can’t say whether neighbouring countries offer anything better in this regard, but this remains a major red flag when considering a long-term life in Thailand, especially if one hopes to grow old in comfort with the security of health care.

 

 

 

 

"When it comes to healthcare, there should be an option for long-term residents to pay into the system and receive equitable care."

 

Couldn't agree more on that one! At 80 years young, health insurance is virtually impossible to acquire, and IF you can get Insurance, the "pre existing conditions" section makes it worthless, (They might pay out for a broken toe, but anything major - forget it!) and the annual premium price would be in the thousands of pounds - I checked when I was about 68, and a basic policy was £3500 per annum.

[Felt 35]

4 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

I've been in and out of Thailand since 1997. Back then it was a welcoming country, with locals showing smiles all over... Then Thaksin became prime minister (2001), and the mood and perception of 'foreigners' (particularly expats) changed dramatically over the next few years towards outright xenophobia. Instead of tourists, only the tourists' money was welcomed. - International tourist numbers rose thanks to heavy promotion, while holiday durations shrank, and daily expenditures mostly stagnated. Fewer and fewer Thais have profited of such mass tourism...

🙏Couldn't have said it better. 2001 changed Thailand and we know by who.

Felt 

[jingjai9]

One good thing I learned about Vietnam is that if a vietnanese person is found gulitly of committing a crime against a foreigner, they receive 7 times the  normal penalty. Is this still in practice?

 

The thing I did not see mentioned here was that Vietnam  has so a lot of problems with theft (home burglaries and bicycles). I have heard many Vietnames people complain about this.

[wensiensheng]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

That can be said about anywhere in the world, covid seemed like it was a generational opportunity for people to engage in price gouging, and prices continue to go up in price.  In the US I am fairly certain inflation continues to rage at about 20% annually, every time I go back things have gone up 10 to 15% in 6 months or less. So this is not exclusive to Thailand. I do notice that inflation here is less than it is in most other places, and though Thailand has gotten more expensive it's still very reasonable. 

The inflation prevalent in most of the worlds developed countries is the main reason why Japan is in comparative terms an absolute bargain atm. 

[robz]

Vietnam also does not offer land ownership for foreigners.
One important point in Thailand is the environmental pollution. Now that the Kok River and the Sai River have been contaminated with lead and arsenic (about 40 times above the limit) due to Chinese mining operations in Myanmar — to the point where even elephants are no longer allowed to bathe there because they develop skin conditions — no one knows whether products in supermarkets still come from those affected areas in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai.
So, at this point, the only safe option is to buy imported products from Australia or from trusted sources like HappyGrocers.
If this pollution continues, I’m leaving.