Is it recomended to use a foreign atm card for withdraws rather than Swift transfers in 2025 if you here moore than 180 days a year? 

Better to use a foreign credit card (one with no foreign transaction fee) for as much as you can and only bring in funds when necessary. 

7 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Better to use a foreign credit card (one with no foreign transaction fee) for as much as you can and only bring in funds when necessary. 

I think you meant debit card.... not credit card.  The OP mentioned ATM card which is usually not a credit card.

Probably no difference, both methods COULD be considered as "remitted funds/income".

 

That said if the funds were "earned" prior to 2024, or (maybe, as "proposed") earned in 2025 and remitted in 2025 or 2026, they might be exempt.

 

If you need the funds transfer them, if you're worried about tax implication, spend fewer than 180 days in Thailand.

 

 

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

I think you meant debit card.... not credit card.  The OP mentioned ATM card which is usually not a credit card.

Yes true,debit card.

2 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I think you meant debit card.... not credit card.  The OP mentioned ATM card which is usually not a credit card.

Nope. I meant credit card. Plus you can get a percent or two back from the credit card co. And you're protected much more than using an ATM card. Clearly doesn't work for people that want to use cash for everything though. 

8 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Nope. I meant credit card. Plus you can get a percent or two back from the credit card co. And you're protected much more than using an ATM card. Clearly doesn't work for people that want to use cash for everything though. 

I haven’t read so many examples of the terms and conditions regarding credit card use but those I have read don’t give any cash back on cash advances.  Instead they charge an immediate fee for the service and also a high ongoing interest rate.  I don’t research the credit cards with a high annual fee so perhaps one of those will offer better terms for cash advances.

Some people have been adamant that credit card use could also be viewed as "remitted funds".

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1322926-remit-vs-credit-card-payment-under-new-tax-rules/

 

 

5 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I haven’t read so many examples of the terms and conditions regarding credit card use but those I have read don’t give any cash back on cash advances.  Instead they charge an immediate fee for the service and also a high ongoing interest rate.  I don’t research the credit cards with a high annual fee so perhaps one of those will offer better terms for cash advances.

I wasn't saying to use your foreign credit card for cash advances. I use the CC everywhere I can including groceries, liquor, shopee. etc. My reading of the OP is that he was trying to minimize tax liability. This is the best way I've come up with so far.

10 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Some people have been adamant that credit card use could also be viewed as "remitted funds".

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1322926-remit-vs-credit-card-payment-under-new-tax-rules/

 

 

Good luck to them trying to track it.

23 minutes ago, bamnutsak said:

Some people have been adamant that credit card use could also be viewed as "remitted funds".

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1322926-remit-vs-credit-card-payment-under-new-tax-rules/

 

 

In theory it should be otherwise it leaves a 'gaping' loophole.......In the UK for non-doms it is covered under HMRC guidance as taxable for example.

 

12 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Good luck to them trying to track it.

I don't disagree with that.

The only issue potentially would arise if audited and asked to prove how you lived and bought stuff but unless other reasons for being targeted it seems very unlikely.

Debit/ATM pulls with your foreign cards are sucking cash from your home country financial account. This account is probably a co-mingle of funds -- some assessable if remitted; some not. How to differentiate what's what is a problem, tho' using FIFO might help, if your financial acct has some pre 2024 funds in it. Same problem with a SWIFT or WISE transfer.

 

Now, say you want to buy a car in Thailand, so you borrow the money from your home country bank, and then remit it to Thailand. Would this remittance be taxable income? Of course not -- and such self - assessment would be included in doing my Thai taxes.

 

So, you use your foreign credit card to pay for a meal in a Thai restaurant. Now, this money is not a direct suck from you home country financial account; it's a loan from your credit card bank, same as that loan I took out to buy a car in Thailand. So, why would I treat this cash flow as remitted income to Thailand? Of course, I wouldn't.

 

Now, in that referenced link above, from bamnutsak -- here's what Mike Lister said:

Quote

Regardless, using a foreign credit card in Thailand to make payments here, is still considered to be remitted funds.

 

Yes, remitted funds. But NOT remitted assessable income, which is the point he was trying to drive home. Fortunately, Mike Lister and his bad advice have left this forum. 

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Fortunately, Mike Lister and his bad advice have left this forum. 

Probably just changed his handle, like most of the other irritants do.

7 hours ago, sanook 1 said:

Is it recomended to use a foreign atm card for withdraws rather than Swift transfers in 2025 if you here moore than 180 days a year? 

Both technically traceable. I'd assume bank transfers are traced more easily, as it's going into a Thai Bank account.  For that reason I'm mostly going the ATM route .

12 minutes ago, Millian said:

Both technically traceable. I'd assume bank transfers are traced more easily, as it's going into a Thai Bank account.  For that reason I'm mostly going the ATM route .

The ATM withdrawals with a foreign card are not traceable by any institution except the bank which issued the card. The debit cards don't have enough information for the transaction to be attributable to a specific person.

Interesting.

I did a bit of digging and found this doc: https://www.fatf-gafi.org/content/dam/fatf-gafi/public-consultation/R.16 and EM - Public consultation February 2025.docx.coredownload.inline.docx

It suggests that currently the information passed to the foreign ATM operator is
 

1. Card number – This is the primary identifier passed during the ATM transaction.

2. Withdrawal amount

3. Date/time/location of withdrawal

4. ATM terminal ID

 

and its proposing new rules so that more info is passed:

• Card number must accompany the transaction.

• Cardholder name must be sent to the ATM/acquiring FI within 24 hours.

• Optional (in consultation): Address, DOB, and legal identifiers must be available on request

 

Wonder if the new regs have been passed yet?

\\

Found this:

https://www.fatf-gafi.org/en/publications/Fatfgeneral/outcomes-FATF-MONEYVAL-plenary-june-2025.html

These new regs were formally published yesterday and countries have till 2030 to comply.

So for now, it's very unlikely Thailand passes any identification information from atm withdrawals with foreign cards.

Who has had their retirement extension refused because they do not have a Thai tax ID?

 

Who has had transferred funds taxed by a Thai bank, and handed over to the Thai Revenue Department?

 

Who has been told by the TRD they do not need a Thai tax ID?

41 minutes ago, Millian said:

Found this:

https://www.fatf-gafi.org/en/publications/Fatfgeneral/outcomes-FATF-MONEYVAL-plenary-june-2025.html

These new regs were formally published yesterday and countries have till 2030 to comply.

So for now, it's very unlikely Thailand passes any identification information from atm withdrawals with foreign cards.

Most of the fatf members do a process called "entity resolution". They have to legally attribute a transaction to a unique person. As a starter they would need your name, address and DOB - highly unlikely that 2 people with the same name and DOB would live in the same address. When they don't have all the required info they may try to triage the data, taking into account extra information...could be a passport number or a driving licence. 

 

For international bank wire transfers the banks are required to include the information, so the wire transfers are pretty much always traceable at the sending and receiving points. Agencies as AUSTRAC have vast databases with current and previous international bank transfers. However no ATM withdrawals data. The ATM withdrawals info can only be obtained from your bank by the tax and law enforcement agencies in your country if there is ongoing audit or investigations.

I think the operative word in title of this thread is paranoia! 

On 6/19/2025 at 10:13 AM, bamnutsak said:

Some people have been adamant that credit card use could also be viewed as "remitted funds".

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1322926-remit-vs-credit-card-payment-under-new-tax-rules/

 

 

The question about revenue dept getting credit card use versus bank or WISE transfers is what is pertinant about money remitted intoThailand from the US.  In the new Big Beautiful Bill, is a bi-party provision about a 3.5% tax on funds being sent from the US to foreign countries.  I realize that his bill is not yet law but it seems this provision though designed to capture funds from foreigners could also impact US citizens who would need to insure proof of citizenship so that if they are charged that 3.5% tax, can then claim a tax credit the following year.  This also opens up even more problems for American expats - additional reporting plus according to the report I got on that provision, it stated that the tax credit recovery was a "convoluted" process so I have advised my bank and will advise them again once this law has been signed by the President and we know full well what we as US citizens will need to do to avoid being charged any additional tax on OUR OWN money already taxed!  I revenue depts are not privy to CC then many will be able to use ATM cash I guess but I really don't know.

On 6/19/2025 at 1:19 AM, sanook 1 said:

Is it recomended to use a foreign atm card for withdraws rather than Swift transfers in 2025 if you here moore than 180 days a year? 

According to the Thai tax-rules both foreign card withdrawals and foreign card-payments in Thailand, and money transfers, are in principle income taxable when staying in the Kingdom 180 days or more within a calendar year.

 

However, it has been officially suggested that foreign income earned in 2025 and 2026, transferred into Thailand in same year as earned, will be tax exempt.

10 minutes ago, khunPer said:

According to the Thai tax-rules both foreign card withdrawals and foreign card-payments in Thailand, and money transfers, are in principle income taxable when staying in the Kingdom 180 days or more within a calendar year.

 

However, it has been officially suggested that foreign income earned in 2025 and 2026, transferred into Thailand in same year as earned, will be tax exempt.

 

... has been officially (direct from TRD?) suggested ...

 

this meanings nothing! because for now, there is no change in tax laws or tax regulations!

2 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

... has been officially (direct from TRD?) suggested ...

 

this meanings nothing! because for now, there is no change in tax laws or tax regulations!

But might mean something little later this year if you are tax-planning – the government want more funds invested in Thailand – however, if the government survives...

4 hours ago, motdaeng said:

this meanings nothing! because for now, there is no change in tax laws or tax regulations!

Yep, there is no change in tax laws enforcement either.

On 6/19/2025 at 10:26 AM, gargamon said:

Good luck to them trying to track it.

The police could just lock a person up and demand to see their CC statements. At the end of the day WE KNOW they can do what they want. Or they (tax office) can impose an arbitrary amount; say one hundred thousand baht and simply ask you to prove otherwise.  There are dozens of ways to get your money  off you! Unfortunately.

5 hours ago, Magictoad said:

The police could just lock a person up and demand to see their CC statements.

Paranoid much.........

Why would the Thai police have anything to do with the RD. 

5 hours ago, Magictoad said:

There are dozens of ways to get your money  off you! Unfortunately.

Not disputing that but really..........

Why is anyone still concerned about this? There has been zero enforcement and are walking back the provisions already. It’s a ghost of a nothing burger. 

3 hours ago, Everyman said:

Why is anyone still concerned about this? There has been zero enforcement and are walking back the provisions already. It’s a ghost of a nothing burger. 

 

just to clarify: the tax laws in thailand have not been changed or canceled yet, and with the current political situation, anything could still happen ..

 

you call it "zero enforcement," but it's actually the law. as foreigners and guests in this country, shouldn't we at least try to follow the law?

(and please, don't use the argument that thais also break the law  ... we're not thai!)

 

i almost forgot... thailand also attracts some foreigners with a criminal past or those involved in petty crimes, because the laws here are not always strictly enforced. of course, those types of people don’t really care about laws, especially when no one is seriously enforcing them ...

 

but i think it it possible, that sooner or later, we foreigners will be held responsible when it comes to taxes ... in one way or another. and under the current tax law, the authorities can go back and review up to 10 years in the past ...

16 hours ago, Magictoad said:

The police could just lock a person up and demand to see their CC statements. At the end of the day WE KNOW they can do what they want. Or they (tax office) can impose an arbitrary amount; say one hundred thousand baht and simply ask you to prove otherwise.  There are dozens of ways to get your money  off you! Unfortunately.

I don't have any credit cards is the answer!