2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. From the CEO of BYD:

 

"BYD’s chairman Wang Chuanfu unveiled the fifth generation of the hybrid technology that achieves a record low fuel consumption of 2.9 liters per 100 km (62.1 miles) on depleted batteries at an event in Shaanxi province’s capital Xian.

 

With a fully charged battery and a full gasoline tank, the technology can ensure a driving range of 2,100 kilometers, Wang said in the city where the company’s first automaking factory was located."

 

So even BYD is now betting on the Hybrid engine, and conceding that Toyota was right all along. Hardly surprising:

 

"Plug-in hybrids priced from 79,800 yuan have made up the bulk of BYD’s sales in the past three years, with an accumulated 3.6 million such cars sold by the company."

 

So even BYD made most of its profits from hybrids, not EVs.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/28/byd-unveils-new-hybrid-tech-as-battle-with-gasoline-rivals-heats-up.html

BYD’s strategy is BEV but with a hybrid stop-gap for those not ready to buy BEV.

 

Their strategy is not Hybrid.

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

BYD’s strategy is BEV but with a hybrid stop-gap for those not ready to buy BEV.

 

Their strategy is not Hybrid.

 

 

BYD restructures Europe strategy, bets on hybrids

 

https://www.techinasia.com/news/byd-restructures-europe-strategy-bets-on-hybrids

 

Five years from now, the will not be able to give ICE vehicles away. 

37 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

BYD restructures Europe strategy, bets on hybrids

 

https://www.techinasia.com/news/byd-restructures-europe-strategy-bets-on-hybrids

 

Not too surprising, marketing a complex, unnecessary, overpriced hybrid, to people that don't need, nor can afford them.   Who needs to be able to go 500 kms, let alone 2100 kms at any one time.

 

You can't fix stupid, but you can make a lot of money from it.

On 8/3/2025 at 7:06 PM, Cardano said:

Electric vehicles........best marketing campaign and biggest con in the last 10 years, even the idiots in government fell for it!

I'm sure you wrote this on a gasoline powered computer connected to landline with 56 kbps modem.

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

This one Neta V 2023 model price new B549,000 

Mileage: 19,000

Recently up for sale B157,000

Depreciation over 2 years 71.4%

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thaiev2car/posts/1255725505748155/

You can't talk about NETA now that company has gone bust. That's like what happened to Chevrolet once GM closed down the factory. Old models, especially if producer leaves country or closes down will naturally lose out, as people get nervous about warranty, spare parts, service, etc. With dropping sales the prices drop as well, and if new ones drop a lot, the second hand ones will drop even more. Not fair comparison.

 

Give me price comparison of 2 years old BYD Seal or Atto3 or Dolphin, or Tesla Y/3 compared to new one.

UK EV depreciation over 12 months

Electric Cars Crash in Value With Some Worth Just a Third of Original Price After One Year

DS3 E-Tense new price £38,853 average value after 12 months £12,970  66.7 per cent in the first 12 months, shedding almost £26,000

According to recent cap hpi data shared exclusively with This is Money, the average electric car in 2025 is losing 43 per cent of its original value after just one year. 

 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-14915031/Labours-Electric-Car-Grant-drain-taxpayers-cause-rampant-EV-depreciation-experts-warn.html

 

https://dailysceptic.org/2025/06/24/electric-cars-crash-in-value-with-some-worth-just-a-third-of-original-price-after-one-year/

On 8/3/2025 at 9:57 AM, BritManToo said:

My EV gets 100km for 12 units = 48bht

My honda click gets 100km for 2l = 64bht

My diesel pickup gets 100km for 10l = 320bht

 

So my EV car is 20% cheaper to run than my ICE scooter and 85% cheaper than my pickup, so where's the con?

 

Whats the cost of repairs and  insurance? what was the  time value of the money used for the purchase? The  scooter may come out as the  most cost effective option, but it will fail as the safest and most helpful.

Why are UK values in the UK falling off a cliff? 

I did read that some insurance companies now refuse to cover EVs as the repair costs are too expensive. I read too that Hertz withdrew EVs in the US.

But what is the reason for falling values in the UK rather than Thailand?

On 8/3/2025 at 9:57 AM, BritManToo said:

My EV gets 100km for 12 units = 48bht

My honda click gets 100km for 2l = 64bht

My diesel pickup gets 100km for 10l = 320bht

 

So my EV car is 20% cheaper to run than my ICE scooter and 85% cheaper than my pickup, so where's the con?

yeah but on long trips or stuck in traffic EVs can be very problematic.  And many people that live in apartments do not have outdoor power outlets for slow charging, never mind getting high power hookups. As for cheap to maintain, have you seen the price of replacing electrical components that you can not service yourself without voiding warranties, not to mention the cost of a new or replacement battery.  EVs are not the panacea

I love reading all the salient points about the perils and evils of ev coming from people who don’t own or drive ev… it’s like they know something that ev owners don’t… 🤣🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

The inconvenient truth is that as EV numbers rise fuel excise for the government drops. Be prepared for an increase in taxes in one form or another. Maybe pay by the kilometre or massive increase in car registration costs, or both. Easily justified by the powers that be...." EVs are much heavier and cause more damage to road infrastructure".

It will happen sooner or later.

8 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

 

BYD restructures Europe strategy, bets on hybrids

 

https://www.techinasia.com/news/byd-restructures-europe-strategy-bets-on-hybrids

 

 

That article only reinforces what I said.  BYD's strategy is not Hybrids, it is only Hybrids plus EV's in some limited European markets.  BYD are the 2nd largest EV battery manufacturer in the world, their strategy is EV's and I cannot see anything that will ever change that.

 

2 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

yeah but on long trips or stuck in traffic EVs can be very problematic.  And many people that live in apartments do not have outdoor power outlets for slow charging, never mind getting high power hookups. As for cheap to maintain, have you seen the price of replacing electrical components that you can not service yourself without voiding warranties, not to mention the cost of a new or replacement battery.  EVs are not the panacea

 

EV's on long trips are not problematic.  Neither is being stuck in traffic, actually that is where they shine, consuming 1-2% of battery charge per hour stuck in traffic.

 

You don't need a charging point at home.  My friend has one and can only charge at charging stations, it takes her 30 minutes whilst she has a coffee.  OK she only saves 50% on what gas would have cost her instead of 75% if she could charge at home.

 

The only servicing EV's need is the brakes and fluid levels checking and the cabin air filter checking.  I could easily do that at home, but why would I when it's free for 8 years at the dealer?

 

You are out of date on batteries, a simple google search will tell you the battery will outlast the car.

On 8/3/2025 at 7:06 PM, Cardano said:

Electric vehicles........best marketing campaign and biggest con in the last 10 years, even the idiots in government fell for it!

 

I think it's a toss up as to the biggest con EVs or Covid.

45 minutes ago, henryford1958 said:

I think it's a toss up as to the biggest con EVs

 

I love being able to charge it at home for free from excess solar power
I love that it comes with over 6 Tesla powerwalls of backup power for my house which means I don’t need PEA anymore
I love the 523 bhp and 670 Nm of torque
I love the 0-100km/h in 3.8 seconds without spinning my wheels 
I love that it has perfect 50:50 weight distribution
I love the low center of gravity
I love the drag coefficient of just 0.219 Cd which is better than a Porsche Taycan
I love the regenerative breaking and not having to use the brake pedal
I love the adaptive suspension
I love that the battery pack is a structural component, increasing torsional stiffness and so increasing handling limits
I love the Torque vectoring which sends power to which wheel needs it most
I love that it only has one gear  
I love that it has a very long wheel base
I love that it is so silent to drive for me and other road users
I love that I am not poisoning the pedestrians and motorbike riders around me when I drive or sit at the traffic lights
I love that it has a front storage compartment where the engine would be in an ICE car
I love being able to switch on the aircon while I’m still in the restaurant
I love being able to do “Find My Car” because the car has a 5G chip
I love the 8 year warranty for the car and battery
I love 8 year completely free servicing and breakdown recovery
I love the way it looks

 

but you think it's a con!

On 8/3/2025 at 8:57 PM, BritManToo said:

My EV gets 100km for 12 units = 48bht

My honda click gets 100km for 2l = 64bht

My diesel pickup gets 100km for 10l = 320bht

 

So my EV car is 20% cheaper to run than my ICE scooter and 85% cheaper than my pickup, so where's the con?

But in 10 years your scooter and truck will still be running and have some value...also I,d like to know, what will the cost of disposing your EV be

1 minute ago, baansgr said:

But in 10 years your scooter and truck will still be running and have some value...also I,d like to know, what will the cost of disposing your EV be

Irrelevant to my life, as the most I expect to live is another 5 years.

With a bit of luck, I won't have any more repairs to do on any of my mvs.

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

The inconvenient truth is that as EV numbers rise fuel excise for the government drops. Be prepared for an increase in taxes in one form or another. Maybe pay by the kilometre or massive increase in car registration costs, or both.

 

Maybe governments should spend less on fossil fuel subsidies instead

 

 

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

" EVs are much heavier and cause more damage to road infrastructure".

 

The most popular EV in Thailand is the BYD Dolphin 1405 kg - 1780kg

 

The most popular ICE is the Toyota Hilux 1,475 kg - 2,270 kg

18 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Maybe governments should spend less on fossil fuel subsidies instead

 

 

 

The most popular EV in Thailand is the BYD Dolphin 1405 kg - 1780kg

 

The most popular ICE is the Toyota Hilux 1,475 kg - 2,270 kg

Yep, ignorance is bliss with some of these anti EV'ers.

 

Even the heaviest BEV pick up available in TH now, with 86kWh battery is lighter than the under performing, overpriced Toyota Hilux, that doesn't even meet the specs of the RD6.

 

"The Riddara RD6 electric pickup truck has a curb weight ranging from 2,065 to 2,090 kg

 

"The 4WD version features dual electric motors delivering a combined 422 horsepower and 595 Nm of torque. It accelerates from 0 to 100 km/h in 4.5 seconds."

 

"The Hilux Revo GR Sport, on the other hand, features a 2.8L diesel engine with 224 hp and 550 Nm ... Acceleration 0-100 km/h. 10.7 seconds."

^ Yes. Not a real farmer's truck. Hilux load capacity is at least 425kgs more.

A car for city people who want to look rugged. Does it come with aerosol mud spray. Range is about 300km. Not even enough for me to go to town and back. Then it would take 11 hrs to recharge.

 

FAIL

9 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Maybe governments should spend less on fossil fuel subsidies instead

 

 

 

The most popular EV in Thailand is the BYD Dolphin 1405 kg - 1780kg

 

The most popular ICE is the Toyota Hilux 1,475 kg - 2,270 kg

Totally irrelevant. I stand by prediction. EVs will pay one way or the other.

 

Must admit I didn't know Toyota made an equivalent battery powered HiLux. Oh that's right.,they don't. You are comparing apples and oranges.

10 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I love being able to charge it at home for free from excess solar power
I love that it comes with over 6 Tesla powerwalls of backup power for my house which means I don’t need PEA anymore
I love the 523 bhp and 670 Nm of torque
I love the 0-100km/h in 3.8 seconds without spinning my wheels 
I love that it has perfect 50:50 weight distribution
I love the low center of gravity
I love the drag coefficient of just 0.219 Cd which is better than a Porsche Taycan
I love the regenerative breaking and not having to use the brake pedal
I love the adaptive suspension
I love that the battery pack is a structural component, increasing torsional stiffness and so increasing handling limits
I love the Torque vectoring which sends power to which wheel needs it most
I love that it only has one gear  
I love that it has a very long wheel base
I love that it is so silent to drive for me and other road users
I love that I am not poisoning the pedestrians and motorbike riders around me when I drive or sit at the traffic lights
I love that it has a front storage compartment where the engine would be in an ICE car
I love being able to switch on the aircon while I’m still in the restaurant
I love being able to do “Find My Car” because the car has a 5G chip
I love the 8 year warranty for the car and battery
I love 8 year completely free servicing and breakdown recovery
I love the way it looks

 

but you think it's a con!

I doubt you have ever experienced the alleged performance that your dream car is capable of. Certainly not in Thailand, not on any normal road.

 

If you did then you may well be what we call a rev head. In which case you should join the legions of petrolheads who can and do actively stretch the capabilities of their chosen vehicle.

Supertune an EV? Not possible.What you see is what you get.

 

Ever seen a 400 HP Ford  Popular?

An 800 HP Ford Falcon?

Ever smelt burning rubber combined with the smell of nitro in a 6000hp dragster hitting the 4 second quarter mile?

Ever had passion?

Ever had a dream?

 

Happy with vanilla?

Go with the EV nonsense, the Government will love/ own you.

 

I'll stick to the stinky cars for as long as I can.

 

I respect your choice. I doubt you can abide mine. Good little robots.

Obey.

 

Edit to add:

Most EVs I have seen look like frogs from the front. Ugliest looking cars since Citroen gave birth.

 

 

9 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Totally irrelevant. I stand by prediction. EVs will pay one way or the other.

 

Must admit I didn't know Toyota made an equivalent battery powered HiLux. Oh that's right.,they don't. You are comparing apples and oranges.

It's not apples & oranges when people discuss ICEV on EV topics.   And try to keep up, Toyota has electrified it's Hilux, but I think as a trial for commercial use, in TH anyway.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2782074/toyota-pilots-ev-pickups-in-pattaya

 

I actually wish they'd electrify their Champ, with decent specs & price.  TBH, I wouldn't trust Toyota, as been caught out before, being a bit 'untrustworthy'

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

It's not apples & oranges when people discuss ICEV on EV topics.   And try to keep up, Toyota has electrified it's Hilux, but I think as a trial for commercial use, in TH anyway.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2782074/toyota-pilots-ev-pickups-in-pattaya

 

I actually wish they'd electrify their Champ, with decent specs & price.  TBH, I wouldn't trust Toyota, as been caught out before, being a bit 'untrustworthy'

Let me know when Boeing or Airbus go electric, then I'll keep up.

1 minute ago, emptypockets said:

Let me know when Boeing or Airbus go electric, then I'll keep up.

Then why on the thread at all ...

... never mind, I know 

15 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Then why on the thread at all ...

... never mind, I know 

The thread is about Ev sales falling off a cliff.  I'm giving my view why this may be.

I'm just giving my opinion why me and many people like me still love the stinky old natural powered engines. Simple as that. No attraction to battery powered cars just yet.

No need to demonise the greater majority of car lovers due to an ilogical ideological belief. 

6 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

The thread is about Ev sales falling off a cliff.  I'm giving my view why this may be.

I'm just giving my opinion why me and many people like me still love the stinky old natural powered engines. Simple as that. No attraction to battery powered cars just yet.

No need to demonise the greater majority of car lovers due to an ilogical ideological belief. 

But I've owned both, mostly ICE, and the EV is more comfortable and easier to drive than any of the ICE, even though it's the cheapest EV on the market.

On 8/3/2025 at 7:59 PM, JBChiangRai said:

 

With 29.3% of new vehicles sold in Thailand in June being EV's, I wonder exactly who is the idiot here?

I wonder if the resale values on electric cars is as high as those on ICE's here in Thailand.

On 8/4/2025 at 7:36 AM, Bandersnatch said:

 

You say what I say about EVs is "dumb" but you're the one talking about something that he clearly knows nothing about!

 

I am have owned 3 EVs so let me try to educate you

 

"limited range" My BYD Seal has a 600km range, so I always need a comfort break before I need to charge.

 

"charging time" My round trip to BKK is 900km and I do a 20 minute charge on the way down and another on the way back

 

"access to home charging" I do charge both my EVs at home 99% of the time and I charge them for free from my solar, something that becoming increasingly common in the UK and Thailand.

 

Condo charging is also becoming increasingly common both in the UK and Thailand, with the UK is expanding charging for those with no off-street parking though "under-pavement" or "lamp post" charging.

 

If you actually owned an EV you would know that without home charging  you can charge once a week while you are doing something else like shopping or getting a coffee.

 

"not to mention price" People who know nothing about EVs still think that EVs are more expensive than ICE cars or try to compare EVs with ICE cars not in the same category. 

 

My BYD Seal is a class D Saloon (Sedan) the same as the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. It is cheaper than both and has far better performance.

 

 

 

My second car is a 7 seat BYD M6  - it is available with 6 seats with "Captains Chairs" or 7 seats. 

 

 

These cars in Thailand can be purchased with 7 seats according to AutolifeThailand

https://www.facebook.com/share/1R2UAWuz32/ and all are more expensive.

 

Your logic is impeccable for the next 6-12 months. But over 5-10 years it is not. The Accord and Camry will be working fine after 10 years if looked after, and their resale value will be miles higher, and the insurance costs far far lower, and Honda and Toyota and their parts and service will still be here.  The same cannot be said about EVs - yet.  I think in the long run EVs could be the better option, but everything right now says they are far more of a risk and much higher costs. What makes them 'better' now is their costs of 'filing' and their driving performance. Lets talk again in 5 years - until then your new EV is 'risky'. If in 10 years your BYD is still good and the resale value is close, then you have made the better decision and well done to you. But the fact is that EV sale values are crashing worldwide - especially used - and the reasons are because of what I have listed above. 

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But I've owned both, mostly ICE, and the EV is more comfortable and easier to drive than any of the ICE, even though it's the cheapest EV on the market.

No worries, all good if it works for you.I don't have an issue with battery vehicles per se....just the evangelists.

I find it therapeutic working on old motorbikes.. pull off the heads,  grind the valves or completely splitting the cases and rebuilding from scratch.

Porting inlets on a car head, bigger cams , etc etc. something I enjoy and seeing the fruits of my labour resulting in an increase in performance of the stinky motor.

 

I should add I've spent a lifetime in the electrical world from wound rotor, squirrel cage, primary and secondary resistance starter motors through DC variable speed motors and AC variable voltage variable frequency controlled motors used in the modern EVs.Along with DCS and PLC control systems including what you see on you interface screen on you EV.

 

Interesting stuff when I was getting paid to do it! But pretty boring software oriented stuff. I stopped getting excited about that decades ago.

 

But, to me, the fun is still with the internal combustion motor. That's where I can get my hands dirty and my mind sharp as I get older.