If you can always avoid spinal surgery. 

I've had friends who have had this surgery to 'fuse two vertebrae together' to correct for Lumbar spondylosis (thought I'm not sure at which level L5-S1 or L4-L5 etc)...   However, the few I have spoken with had very positive results and recovered quickly. BUT...  they were not old, they were relatively young, in their 30's and 40's and were good cases for surgery.

 

I also know someone (closely) who had corrective surgery for Scoliosis (which is a 'curving' of the spine), where as spondylosis has more to do with lumbar (and disk) degeneration... and the recovery took months and was agonising.

 

Thus: its important to be very clear on your case and the 'extent of surgery' that may be required: 

- fusing two vertebrae to correct for spondylosis and assist with lumbar osteoarthritis is relatively common and recovery rates are impressive.

 

Everyone is very different - only your surgeon can truly know, and second opinion would be highly advised given your age and potential benifits of other action from physio, heat and laser therapy.

 

Lose weight and make sure you get a second opinion. Good Luck.

As a fat guy suffering from a bad back I must say you have to lose weight before you make any decision, but anytime you can avoid a guy with a knife is good.

10 years ago, I was in a full back brace, eating 4-6 Tramadol a day, awaiting spinal fusion and curatage from the head of Ortho at Chiang Mai Ram.  The pain was incredible. I couldn't get out of a chair or roll over in bed without screaming. I was told that the surgery 'may' stop the pain.

Then, quite by accident, I met Dr. Jolie Bookspan...  Brilliant physiologist, author of a dozen books, she has put all of her 'tricks' on her website, healing back, neck, shoulder, and knee pain.

Two months later I was out of the brace, not taking any pain meds, and fully sports active. Zero pain.  And it has stayed that way!
She just gave me a couple of 'different' exercises that began to work immediately. 

Dr. Bookspan comes to Chiang Mai every year for the Flower Festival. She's a friendly person so happy to meet new people.
www.DrBookspan.com - her site is down right now, but should be back soon. 

16 hours ago, JensenZ said:

I have numbness in my toes, other areas of the feet and legs, and hands. Some areas have lost their feeling entirely. My back is in good condition, and I've never had a serious back injury. My guess is you might have diabetic neuropathy, and it's not related to your back injury.

This is of course a possibility and why he needs to consult a specialist in spinal  problems. Unlike you, OP has had past  injuries, and has documented spinal stenosis. But that does not necessarily mean that the latter (which many people have)  fully accounts for his symptoms. Needs expert evaluation. 

Perhaps this podcast might be of interest or assistance?  
 

https://peterattiamd.com/stuartmcgill/

 

“Stuart McGill is a distinguished professor emeritus at the University of Waterloo and the chief scientific officer at Backfitpro where he specializes in evaluating complex cases of lower back pain from across the globe. In this episode, Stuart engages in a deep exploration of lower back pain, starting with the anatomy of the lower back, the workings of the spine, the pathophysiology of back pain, and areas of vulnerability. He challenges the concept of nonspecific back pain, emphasizing the importance of finding a causal relationship between injury and pain. Stuart highlights compelling case studies of the successful treatment of complex cases of lower back pain, reinforcing his conviction that nobody needs to suffer endlessly. He also covers the importance of strength and stability, shares his favorite exercises to prescribe to patients, and provides invaluable advice for maintaining a healthy spine.”

 

Sheryl

I notice that Khun, Dr, Prof. Wicharn Yingsakmongkol, M.D. has the advertised schedule of appointments as shown in the table.

Did you see him privately and if so do you have his contact details?

day	Time	Location
Tuesday	17:30 – 20:00	Spine Centre (เฉพาะนัด (Only for the scheduled appointment))
Saturday	08:30 – 13:00	Spine Centre (เฉพาะนัด (Only for the scheduled appointment))

Regards

By the way my wife is operating at 100% on the HRT solution you recommended, has been in place for 18 months or so.

4 hours ago, fellwalker said:

Sheryl

I notice that Khun, Dr, Prof. Wicharn Yingsakmongkol, M.D. has the advertised schedule of appointments as shown in the table.

Did you see him privately and if so do you have his contact details?

day	Time	Location
Tuesday	17:30 – 20:00	Spine Centre (เฉพาะนัด (Only for the scheduled appointment))
Saturday	08:30 – 13:00	Spine Centre (เฉพาะนัด (Only for the scheduled appointment))

Regards

 

The above are the details of this private practice, at BNH hospital, a private hospital.  I saw him there.

 

He will want to see an MRI, you can save money by getting it here first:

 

www.mrithailand.com

There is a branch near Silom.

Bring it on CD, don't worry about the report, he'll read the scan himself. He will also want to do Xrays, that has to be at BNH as he has his own protocol for them. 

Sheryl

Thankyou for the information.

On 9/2/2025 at 12:24 PM, fellwalker said:

I am 77 years old and weigh 125 Kgs, part of the problem. I have had a bad back for most of my adult life due to an early set of rugby injuries.

Of late say 1 year it has got steadily worse and currently I exhibit.

·       Tingling in both legs

·       Occasional sciatic pain right leg

·       Numbness in my left foot, toe next to large

·       Intermittent numbness in my right foot

·       Balance issues

 

I have recently had a series of CAT scans subsequent to bowel surgery for cancer and the radiologists have diagnosed and I quote “Lumbar spondylosis, pronounce at L4-S1 vertebra is shown”.

The pictures look problematical from even an untrained eye.

There are bone spurs and thinning of the intervertebral discs. Not bursting is evident.

 

I have read horror stories about vertebra fusion.

 

Any advice on your experience or solution would be helpful.

1.   Type of surgery

2.   Hospital

3.   Experienced Dr

4.   Costs if surgery

 

Sheryl was particularly helpful with an HRT issue with my wife.

First of all I advise you to lose weight. Around 30 kg at least.

Most of your problems I expect to be gone if you start with qualified physio continuously.

Surgery at present not necessary I suppose.

 

You played rugby, I raced motocross.  at 65 years, had enough daily pain to see a doctor.  You guessed it, L4-S1 was complete garbage.  Got surgery in Bangkok, got immediate relief, and 7 years later, never give my back a thought.  Best of luck to you ... 

Here's my story. Back pain started in the UK when I was 28, I believe triggered by driving long distances in a car with a not very supportive seat, and lifing my first daughter, now 49, in and out of a baby seat in the middle of the back seat of the car. Recurred on and off, treated with physio or chiropractice, until 1997 when I was in Thailand. Started in January, treated with physio, including traction, chiropractice, and an epidural, all unsuccessful. Ended up that I could only stand for long enough to urinate. Running my own business I travelled to my office lying in the back of a pick up. Lay on the floor downstairs to rest, then upstairs to lie on the floor and work. Medicine was very strong and caused an ulcer which perforated, causing a blackout. When effects of that had worn off, as well as the epidural, it was June. Had an "operation" by an army surgeon at Bumrungrad who, I understand, drilled small holes in my vertebrae and nibbled away the protruding herniated discs. The operation started at about 6:30 am. At 10:30 he came and removed the catheter from the incision. At 13:30 they removed the catheter from my urethra, which was the only painful part! I was then told I could walk to the toilet and, to my absolute amazement, did so. Very rapid recovery at first, but then slower. Even played some rugby again. In the last 30 years have had no major problems, just one or tow minor issues dealt with by rest, and a few exercises.

I don't think any serious spine surgeon would even think of a surgical option in a 77-year old severely overweight patient. The chances of a satisfactory outcome are minimal, weighed against high risk of complications and even a worse outcome. Put any surgery out of your mind and go for the non-surgical route, i.e. anything that works for you.

On 9/2/2025 at 12:24 PM, fellwalker said:

I am 77 years old and weigh 125 Kgs, part of the problem. I have had a bad back for most of my adult life due to an early set of rugby injuries.

Of late say 1 year it has got steadily worse and currently I exhibit.

·       Tingling in both legs

·       Occasional sciatic pain right leg

·       Numbness in my left foot, toe next to large

·       Intermittent numbness in my right foot

·       Balance issues

 

I have recently had a series of CAT scans subsequent to bowel surgery for cancer and the radiologists have diagnosed and I quote “Lumbar spondylosis, pronounce at L4-S1 vertebra is shown”.

The pictures look problematical from even an untrained eye.

There are bone spurs and thinning of the intervertebral discs. Not bursting is evident.

 

I have read horror stories about vertebra fusion.

 

Any advice on your experience or solution would be helpful.

1.   Type of surgery

2.   Hospital

3.   Experienced Dr

4.   Costs if surgery

 

Sheryl was particularly helpful with an HRT issue with my wife.

 

 

 

AGAIN NO MENTION OF WHERE YOU ARE

I had much the same as you until I came here.  I went to BNH saw a specialist there Dr Eak.  He did a thorough exam and performed a Laminectomy where they cleaned up the spine and joined the 2 Veretabrae together  

 

It was ot cheap around 25oK 14 years ago, but it resolved my issues.  I still see him for anything related to my back, and he provides straight information.

 

A consult is not expensive, and I would take a copy of the CAT scan with you.

 

1. LAMINECTOMY

2, bnh

3, DR EAK

4 250K 14 YEARS AGO

 

WARNING

 

No matter where you go, get prepared to get <deleted> about your weight.

 

 

 

I'm 75 years old (65kgs)and, about 25 years ago, after a crippling sciatic nerve event (totally out of the blue and unexpected) a CT Scan and MRI showed stenosis of the lower spine (lumbar stenosis?), which meant that the narrowing of the spinal canal was squeezing the spinal cord and associated nerves.

*  not very technically described here,but you gat the idea.

 

Initially pethidine was injected allowing me to actually move about semi normally as opposed to sliding along on the floor in agony.  

 

All of this was in Hong Kong where I then worked allowing me Permanent residency and access to virtually free medical treatment and medications. 

 

Pregabalin (25 mg) was prescribed along with Naproxin and Tramadol (25 mg) as backup meds to be taken if required. 

 

I asked about surgery to "grind out" the spinal canal and alleviate the squeezing (as i had seen done on Google , fairly commonly in the US.) 

 

NO WAY were the HK doctors/surgeons going to intrude into that area with the risk of cutting/damaging the spinal cord leaving me paraplegic!

 

So it's been pregab and tramadol occasionally these past many years, which have been satisfactory in relieving the pain and allowing a 'normal life'.

 

#pregabalin is a pretty good at inducing sleep at bedtime.....for me anyway. 

Took advice from a surgeon many years ago, who was on call with Liverpool F.C. for any players with back problems. His advice was clear and simple " Never Ever Let Anyone Take a Knife to Your Spine. Afraid your problems like mine an ex rugby player is called Old Age.

I'm no doctor but I have suffered compressed vertebrae with tingling at first and then numb fingers. 

My issue is upper back. 

 

The best treatment that cures me for a year or two is being stretched out on a bench with weights trying to pull my head off (via a pulley / gravity) . I have this treatment for 20 minutes for 10-14 days and I'm fixed for a year or two. 

 

Ask your doctor or ChatGPT if it's viable for you too. Good luck. 

1 hour ago, QPRFC said:

I'm no doctor but I have suffered compressed vertebrae with tingling at first and then numb fingers. 

My issue is upper back. 

 

The best treatment that cures me for a year or two is being stretched out on a bench with weights trying to pull my head off (via a pulley / gravity) . I have this treatment for 20 minutes for 10-14 days and I'm fixed for a year or two. 

 

Ask your doctor or ChatGPT if it's viable for you too. Good luck. 

I had traction on my head as well, and with I think about the same schedule. It eliminated my neck & shoulder pain, and it has stayed away for a few years. 

 

I also had heat-packs after the stretch, noice! 

 

 

Once saw a docu about American doctor.

People in wheel chair due to pain in back, not being able to walk.

That doctor did a surgery in jiffy time and immediately after operation, he set the people on their feet and all was gone !

Amazing to see, his method wasnt published in medical journals and so on and therefor ignored.

I remember, they asked other doctors why not all doctors would do so? Main reason, not published.

It costed at that time a 50000 $ and im talking decades ago. But from being disabled by backissues to walking again, the patients find worthwhile the money !

Sadly never saw an upfollow docu of the cases, like how is it afterwards, after say 3 years.

In fact nothing anymore. Too bad.

Well there are more treatments on diseases from which you never hear again.

Like a computer interface to human brain and someone with Parkinson could normally walk again.

Or they could use it to kill fears, phobia's, even addictions.

You wonder where al those things are kept and kept silent.

Pharmaceutical companies buying inventions end put away? You better use drugs from them, money.  

 

As said, weight loss can do also a lot. Ozempic,  semaglutide?  Or make your stomach smaller (surgery)?

Implanting a ballon in stomach, so you loose weight?

Women are doing beast reductions to lift the pain in back , because of their big breasts.

Yha, ok there are also women pumping it up to super size. Like model "Beshine" 

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cQObwoNN-Wg/maxresdefault.jpg

 

However you are 77 and surgeries are more difficult and also the healing could be.  

First step maybe loosing weight?

They did all ready a diagnose for you and it is said, it is normal getting older.

Weird they didnt tell you already to loose weight, would also be better if you would go for surgery.

In the same time as mentioned, back exercises, to make muscle stronger. 

https://www.spine-nj.com/treatment/hemilaminectomy/

A treatment

However you also have history of rough life.

Surgery? I think maybe in last place.

 

 

Every doctor I have talked with say 33% chance it improves 33% no change or 33% chance it gets worse. Not good odds. I talked with someone in the airport couldn't wait for Canadian medical so went to the US spent over $20,000 ,no improvement.

played a lot of Hockey ..    and 2 serious car collisions

tore rotar cuff..  repaired ..  1 year to rehab 100%

miniscus repair both knees   

At 48 diagnosed DDD ( Dengenerative Disc )  L3-4-5 and Si1

about 15yrs ago I woke up and went to get out of bed,  and went straight to the floor..   could not stand ..  period .  oh yes it hurt real bad

 chiropracters and surgeons were in ready to carve me up like a turkey  someone turned me on to a local Chiro that came to the house to work on me

took a month to get me up and mobil  ..  serious core strengthening ( and no jumping out of planes )

change the diet reduce all inflamation and lose weight

 

even now at 70 I can do just about anything I want pain free..     treat your body well ..   avoid the knife 

16 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I had traction on my head as well, and with I think about the same schedule. It eliminated my neck & shoulder pain, and it has stayed away for a few years. 

 

I also had heat-packs after the stretch, noice! 

 

 

I do dead hangs  for 90seconds 2x a day 

13 hours ago, The Old Bull said:

Every doctor I have talked with say 33% chance it improves 33% no change or 33% chance it gets worse. Not good odds. I talked with someone in the airport couldn't wait for Canadian medical so went to the US spent over $20,000 ,no improvement.

That depends on the individual's back problem and solutions available.   The doc I chose (having choices), fixed my 2 herniated discs (not fused), with surgery, as last resort, with 100% recovery.  30 years later, and his patch job is holding up just fine, no matter how hard I have tried to undo it.  

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

That depends on the individual's back problem and solutions available.   The doc I chose (having choices), fixed my 2 herniated discs (not fused), with surgery, as last resort, with 100% recovery.  30 years later, and his patch job is holding up just fine, no matter how hard I have tried to undo it.  

I severed my right foot (it was hanging by about 1cm of skin) in 1988. They reattached it and stretched it out over an inch to the original length. Still good after almost 40 years. 

I think that the solution, well initially is to lose weight and I have failed in the past but with the help of Mounjaro I should make it.

Any advice as to a cost effective source of the drug?

I will be under the supervision of my oncologist so I will not need to pay extra for this.

1 hour ago, fellwalker said:

I think that the solution, well initially is to lose weight and I have failed in the past but with the help of Mounjaro I should make it.

Any advice as to a cost effective source of the drug?

I will be under the supervision of my oncologist so I will not need to pay extra for this.

If you go on the medical forum and talk to Sheryl, I think she is on one of those drugs.

5 hours ago, fellwalker said:

I think that the solution, well initially is to lose weight and I have failed in the past but with the help of Mounjaro I should make it.

Any advice as to a cost effective source of the drug?

I will be under the supervision of my oncologist so I will not need to pay extra for this.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1338388-anyone-taking-mounjaro/

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

5 hours ago, fellwalker said:

I think that the solution, well initially is to lose weight and I have failed in the past but with the help of Mounjaro I should make it.

Any advice as to a cost effective source of the drug?

I will be under the supervision of my oncologist so I will not need to pay extra for this.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1338388-anyone-taking-mounjaro/

 

Send Med Conult Asia a message.... 

 

2nd hand Info (from a mate) - but MedConsult had 10.0mg Mounjaro pens available a few months ago - Cost approx 20,000 baht.

 

He was able to 'spread out the dosage' - instead of taking 2.5mg once per week for 4 weeks, he was able to 'count' out a 1.25mg dose, for 8 weeks.

There is also 'dead volume' which can be accessed (by forcing the mechanism) to issue what has been termed 'the golden dose' which is effectively just being efficient and getting a last dose out of the pen so it isn't wasted. 

 

Thus: a mate was able to get 9 doses from a 10mg Mounjaro pens from MedConsult Asia.

https://www.medconsultasia.com/

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Send Med Conult Asia a message.... 

 

2nd hand Info (from a mate) - but MedConsult had 10.0mg Mounjaro pens available a few months ago - Cost approx 20,000 baht.

 

He was able to 'spread out the dosage' - instead of taking 2.5mg once per week for 4 weeks, he was able to 'count' out a 1.25mg dose, for 8 weeks.

There is also 'dead volume' which can be accessed (by forcing the mechanism) to issue what has been termed 'the golden dose' which is effectively just being efficient and getting a last dose out of the pen so it isn't wasted. 

 

Thus: a mate was able to get 9 doses from a 10mg Mounjaro pens from MedConsult Asia.

https://www.medconsultasia.com/

 

 

 

 

Wegovy costs about half as much.