Just now, Alan Zweibel said:

And what have the Republicans done except make the situation worse by restricting immigration. And I don't think that the Democrats, when push comes to shove, will resist raising taxes on social security. While the Republicans will consider that a case of evil incarnate.

Yes, immigrants never grow old.  I'm not sure what you mean by restricting immigration.   

On 10/12/2025 at 7:53 AM, Purdey said:

I think keeping people poor while companies profit from their work. When was the last time the minimum wage rose? 

 

There is a Federal and local min wage.  

2 minutes ago, TedG said:

Yes, crushing tax rate. These rates held back the growth of the economy. 

I posted 2 graphs that showed consistent growth in GDP even as taxes went up to reach a height of almost 20%. And all you can do is repeat yourself.

On 10/10/2025 at 5:50 PM, GammaGlobulin said:

Trump...!!!!

 

Trump is the new Miracle Worker.

 

It sure seems that way. No other President has accomplished so much in such a short period of time. 

3 minutes ago, TedG said:

Yes, immigrants never grow old.  I'm not sure what you mean by restricting immigration.   

I don't propose to teach you basic math. The younger the median age of workers is, the longer it takes for them to reach retirement age. I'll leave you to work out the implications of that yourself.

And you don't know what I mean by restricting immigration? Are you living at the bottom of a well?

5 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

I don't propose to teach you basic math. The younger the median age of workers is, the longer it takes for them to reach retirement age. I'll leave you to work out the implications of that yourself.

And you don't know what I mean by restricting immigration? Are you living at the bottom of a well?

1) You can't handle basic math.  You don't understand that 23% > 20%.  

2) People like you seem to think that immigrants don't grow old.  

3) When has immigration been restricted? 

9 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

I posted 2 graphs that showed consistent growth in GDP even as taxes went up to reach a height of almost 20%. And all you can do is repeat yourself.

Did you notice the revenue never hit the 20% mark?  Yet spending is at 23% of the GDP.   Clinton had the dot-com boom, which pushed up the revenue.  Then it crashed. 

 

You cannot deal with the fact that federal spending is out of control, and it needs to be cut. 

1 minute ago, TedG said:

1) You can't handle basic math.  You don't understand that 23% > 20%.  

2) People like you seem to think that immigrants don't grow old.  

3) When has immigration been restricted? 

More nonsense from you. You made a claim that because taxation has never reached that 20% level, that proves anything above that level would be harmful. You offer no proof.

I really can't help you with your math problems. But I will try once again. Yes immigrants grow old. But they start out younger so it takes longer for them to reach retirement age. What's more, a continuous flow of immigrants will keep the average age of the workforce younger. Or do you believe that immigrants are immortal and will impose an eternal and increasing burden on the  Social Security system?

Does the Trump administration's imposition of a $100,000 fee for H1-B immigrants ring any bells?

 

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

When the upper classes start pulling away from the middle classes in developed nations, that's virtually always resulted in a decline in the size and income of the middle classes.

Maybe the decline is due to the loss of the manufacturing sector. 

19 minutes ago, TedG said:

Did you notice the revenue never hit the 20% mark?  Yet spending is at 23% of the GDP.   Clinton had the dot-com boom, which pushed up the revenue.  Then it crashed. 

 

You cannot deal with the fact that federal spending is out of control, and it needs to be cut. 

Or maybe it's you who cannot deal with the fact that federal taxation levels need to be raised. And you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge that tax cuts have played a part in budget deficits and the national debt. Do you support Trump's tax cuts?

2 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Or maybe it's you who cannot deal with the fact that federal taxation levels need to be raised. And you repeatedly refuse to acknowledge that tax cuts have played a part in budget deficits and the national debt. Do you support Trump's tax cuts?

Why not cut the federal government?   It’s grown too large.

 

I support tax cuts.   Stave the beast. 

Just now, Mike_Hunt said:

Maybe the decline is due to the loss of the manufacturing sector. 

Even in the German economy, in the heyday of its economic success, the manufacturing percentage of its economy declined. One thing you fail to appreciate is how much more productive manufacturing has become. Since 1990 productivity is up by 350%. In China, there are manufacturing facilities known as dark factories because no lights need to be turned on. The reason why? Robotics. If no humans are working, you don't need lights.  Also, there is this faith that manufacturing jobs will be well paying. In the past that was true because of unions. Thanks to a vicious Supreme Court and Republican right-to-work laws, unions have been undercut.

6 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

More nonsense from you. You made a claim that because taxation has never reached that 20% level, that proves anything above that level would be harmful. You offer no proof.

I really can't help you with your math problems. But I will try once again. Yes immigrants grow old. But they start out younger so it takes longer for them to reach retirement age. What's more, a continuous flow of immigrants will keep the average age of the workforce younger. Or do you believe that immigrants are immortal and will impose an eternal and increasing burden on the  Social Security system?

Does the Trump administration's imposition of a $100,000 fee for H1-B immigrants ring any bells?

 

It’s not nonsense.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauser's_law

7 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

I really can't help you with your math problems. But I will try once again. Yes immigrants grow old

Maybe you could show the math. 

1 minute ago, TedG said:

Why not cut the federal government?   It’s grown too large.

 

I support tax cuts.   Stave the beast. 

If you support tax cuts, then you support increasing the deficit and the national debt. It's that simple. And your hypocrisy, (or is it cluelessness?) are blatantly evident.

9 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Does the Trump administration's imposition of a $100,000 fee for H1-B immigrants ring any bells?

I love it.  Anyone who works in the tech sectors understands the abuse of the H1-B visas.  

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

If you support tax cuts, then you support increasing the deficit and the national debt. It's that simple. And your hypocrisy, (or is it cluelessness?) are blatantly evident.

I support a 20% cut to the federal budget.  

Just now, TedG said:

Maybe you could show the math. 

If it were allowed in this forum, I could arrange for you to pay me a fee. But it''s not. Maybe we have some jr high school teachers in the forum who would volunteer for the task.

Also, I didn't point out how illegal aliens help the social security. Those that are in the system are unable to  collect what they've paid in.

Just now, Alan Zweibel said:

If it were allowed in this forum, I could arrange for you to pay me a fee. But it''s not. Maybe we have some jr high school teachers in the forum who would volunteer for the task.

Also, I didn't point out how illegal aliens help the social security. Those that are in the system are unable to  collect what they've paid in.

LOL…you have no idea now to do the math, 

 

You want to open the borders to illegal to fix social security? 

1 minute ago, TedG said:

I support a 20% cut to the federal budget.  

Do you understand that more than 2/3 of Federal spending is mandates for social security and medicare. So when you say you support a 20% cut, what you are really saying is that you support a cut of of 20%, that amounts to a cut of over 50% in discretionary spending. And given that the military consumes well over half of that...Good luck in trying to get that enacted.

8 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Even in the German economy, in the heyday of its economic success, the manufacturing percentage of its economy declined. One thing you fail to appreciate is how much more productive manufacturing has become. Since 1990 productivity is up by 350%. In China, there are manufacturing facilities known as dark factories because no lights need to be turned on. The reason why? Robotics. If no humans are working, you don't need lights.  Also, there is this faith that manufacturing jobs will be well paying. In the past that was true because of unions. Thanks to a vicious Supreme Court and Republican right-to-work laws, unions have been undercut.

 You agree with me over the loss of manufacturing jobs?  Who signed NAFA into law? 

 

By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.

 

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Do you understand that more than 2/3 of Federal spending is mandates for social security and medicare. So when you say you support a 20% cut, what you are really saying is that you support a cut of of 20%, that amounts to a cut of over 50% in discretionary spending. And given that the military consumes well over half of that...Good luck in trying to get that enacted.

Do you understand that congress has the power to change this?  

6 minutes ago, TedG said:

LOL…you have no idea now to do the math, 

 

You want to open the borders to illegal to fix social security? 

Here's a link that might help. 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-immigration-reforms-could-bolster-social-security-and-medicare-solvency-and-address-direct-care-workforce-issues/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

and here's a very succinct summary of the math:

As the U.S. population ages, the ratio of working-age individuals to retirees decreases, putting pressure on the Social Security system. Younger immigrants help mitigate this demographic shift by increasing the number of workers contributing to the system, thereby supporting its long-term viability.

Here's another link that might enlighten you:

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/immigration-social-security-solvency/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

Of course, you are welcome to offer any evidence that contradicts mine. Good luck with that.

 

Whether or I want to or not, the fact is that illegal aliens do contribute to the longevity of social security's ability to pay full benefits.

On 10/10/2025 at 7:09 PM, Will B Good said:

 

 

0.12% of GDP............you need to calm down

Don't confuse them with facts 

7 minutes ago, TedG said:

Do you understand that congress has the power to change this?  

Do you understand that works in either directions. And how do you think members of congress who oppose preserving Social Security benefits will fare if Social Security can no longer pay full benefits? What alternative reality do you inhabit?

Economic growth based on maxims such as "drill, baby, drill" is a crime against humanity.

12 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

 You agree with me over the loss of manufacturing jobs?  Who signed NAFA into law? 

 

By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.

 

First off, as I pointed out, even in Germany, a manufacturing powerhouse, manufacturing as a percentage of the economy was in decline. As economies develop, services overtake manufacturing.

And your concern for American workers is touching. I'm sure you, like President Trump support strong trade unions. Otherwise, what bargaining power of American workers was there that NAFTA undercut?

What's more, let's say that American manufacturers didn't move abroad. Do you seriously believe that non-American manufacturers wouldn't produce those goods at a cheaper price?

7 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Here's a link that might help. 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-immigration-reforms-could-bolster-social-security-and-medicare-solvency-and-address-direct-care-workforce-issues/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

and here's a very succinct summary of the math:

As the U.S. population ages, the ratio of working-age individuals to retirees decreases, putting pressure on the Social Security system. Younger immigrants help mitigate this demographic shift by increasing the number of workers contributing to the system, thereby supporting its long-term viability.

Here's another link that might enlighten you:

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/explainer/immigration-social-security-solvency/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

Of course, you are welcome to offer any evidence that contradicts mine. Good luck with that.

 

Whether or I want to or not, the fact is that illegal aliens do contribute to the longevity of social security's ability to pay full benefits.

Did you notice how it said "could"

 

Then, against, people act like these immigrants don't age.  Can you grow the population to infinity? 

7 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Do you understand that works in either directions. And how do you think members of congress who oppose preserving Social Security benefits will fare if Social Security can no longer pay full benefits? What alternative reality do you inhabit?

I inhabit a universe where I recognize these programs are growing out of control.  

 

https://www.pgpf.org/article/cbo-report-highlights-americas-unsustainable-and-deteriorating-fiscal-outlook/

 

 

This is 

 

1 minute ago, TedG said:

Did you notice how it said "could"

 

Then, against, people act like these immigrants don't age.  Can you grow the population to infinity? 

I did notice the "could" and i read enough to know that the "could" refers to the possibility that more immigration be allowed.

 

Your second point is bizarre. Why don't you understand that the reason the population can't be grown to infinity is that human beings, and yes, that includes immigrants aren't immortal. What don't you understand about the ratio of working people to retired people is what's crucial?