1. 

The first move is immediate Nato membership for Ukraine, for Georgia and for Bosnia-Herzegovina.  The idea would probably be vetoed immediately by the US, along with Hungary and Slovakia, which are run by pro-Putin autocrats. But a non-Nato, Nato-style alliance of the West would be a powerful entity that would give Putin pause for thought if it acted together and with the sort of confidence the Kremlin has shown on the world stage.

 

2.

The combined size of the economies of Nato nations – minus the US, Hungary and Slovenia – is over four times that of the Russian Federation. It spends 3.5 to 4 per cent more on defence than the Kremlin. This bloc could muster about 3.2 million troops vs Russia’s 1.5 million. This is a massive amount of power for an alliance to wield and far beyond anything that Russia could resist. Finland has joined Nato to stop Russia doing a Ukraine, or Georgia, on it. Having both of those nations inside a Nato tent, or one that is very similar and has mutual defence sown into it, is a means by which the West can bolster its security without an immediate need for massive new spending.

 

3.   

Of course Russia can, does, and will threaten to use nuclear weapons. Let it. Wherever they stand, neither China nor the US would be prepared to see the Kremlin use even battlefield nuclear weapons. Moscow would risk annihilation. Europe and its allies don’t need America to see off the threat from Moscow. It has the troops, the money and the military – it just needs to show it has courage, and conviction, to step into history.

 

This is what Europe must do to call Putin’s bluff on Ukraine

WW3 guarantee .

whoopee!

5 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

WW3 guarantee .

whoopee!

Surrendering to Russia REALLY assures that. Don't forget China who will be emboldened.

10 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

WW3 guarantee .

whoopee!

They dont care at this stage. Irrational hatred of Trump caused them to want any outcome - including the obvious one you mention - rather than taking another hard L as Trump ends yet another senseless war.

Absolutely sick.

They already called Russia bluff  and Russia has responded..now they don't like the outcome they should call more bluff ???

How about stop prodding and poking and calling bluffs  instead call for peace...yes losers in war have to agree to the victors terms sorry Ukraine/NATO/EU.

5 minutes ago, johng said:

They already called Russia bluff  and Russia has responded..now they don't like the outcome they should call more bluff ???

How about stop prodding and poking and calling bluffs  instead call for peace...yes losers in war have to agree to the victors terms sorry Ukraine/NATO/EU.

The last time I looked the war is far from over.

12 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

They dont care at this stage. Irrational hatred of Trump caused them to want any outcome - including the obvious one you mention - rather than taking another hard L as Trump ends yet another senseless war.

Absolutely sick.

Surrendering to Russia is not the end of the war and is not a peace deal.

It would just be the beginning of the next stage giving Russia time to regroup.

DUH!

11 minutes ago, johng said:

They already called Russia bluff  and Russia has responded..now they don't like the outcome they should call more bluff ???

How about stop prodding and poking and calling bluffs  instead call for peace...yes losers in war have to agree to the victors terms sorry Ukraine/NATO/EU.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/26/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-trump-peace-talks/

Putin is making concessions. lol

Get out of Ukraine, you mass murderer. You claim eastern Ukraine wants to be part of Russia so what did you do?

Bomb the hell out of the towns and villages, turning them into rubble. 

Is this how you treat the people you claim love Russia?

 

Off topic post removed @SunnyinBangrak

1 hour ago, bannork said:

1. 

The first move is immediate Nato membership for Ukraine, for Georgia and for Bosnia-Herzegovina.  The idea would probably be vetoed immediately by the US, along with Hungary and Slovakia, which are run by pro-Putin autocrats. But a non-Nato, Nato-style alliance of the West would be a powerful entity that would give Putin pause for thought if it acted together and with the sort of confidence the Kremlin has shown on the world stage.

 

2.

The combined size of the economies of Nato nations – minus the US, Hungary and Slovenia – is over four times that of the Russian Federation. It spends 3.5 to 4 per cent more on defence than the Kremlin. This bloc could muster about 3.2 million troops vs Russia’s 1.5 million. This is a massive amount of power for an alliance to wield and far beyond anything that Russia could resist. Finland has joined Nato to stop Russia doing a Ukraine, or Georgia, on it. Having both of those nations inside a Nato tent, or one that is very similar and has mutual defence sown into it, is a means by which the West can bolster its security without an immediate need for massive new spending.

 

3.   

Of course Russia can, does, and will threaten to use nuclear weapons. Let it. Wherever they stand, neither China nor the US would be prepared to see the Kremlin use even battlefield nuclear weapons. Moscow would risk annihilation. Europe and its allies don’t need America to see off the threat from Moscow. It has the troops, the money and the military – it just needs to show it has courage, and conviction, to step into history.

 

This is what Europe must do to call Putin’s bluff on Ukraine

I generally don't do or care about emojis but I had to add a laughing one. 

 

27 minutes ago, bannork said:

Putin is making concessions

Not seen any yet.

27 minutes ago, bannork said:

Bomb the hell out of the towns and villages, turning them into rubble. 

That is what the Ukrainians did to the Russian speakers in the east Donbas region of the country  since the maidan coup..the Russian speakers have voted to join  Russia.

Now it looks like Russia will also take Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia too

Ukraine EU/NATO are panicked into talks..trying to stop the relentless advances before there is nothing left to even talk about.

13 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I generally don't do or care about emojis but I had to add a laughing one. 

 

He was a great actor but a terrible human being. Destroyed his 4 year old son's toys in revenge for his son 'decorating' his new car.

2 minutes ago, johng said:

Not seen any yet.

That is what the Ukrainians did to the Russian speakers in the east Donbas region of the country  since the maidan coup..the Russian speakers have voted to join  Russia.

Now it looks like Russia will also take Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia too

Ukraine EU/NATO are panicked into talks..trying to stop the relentless advances before there is nothing left to even talk about.

 

Russia/Ukraine: Illegitimate results of sham ‘referenda’ must not enable illegal annexation of occupied areas - Amnesty International

 

On Tuesday, the Russia-backed “administrations” of occupied Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions of Ukraine and the de facto authorities of the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk “People’s Republics” announced the results of the unlawful “referenda” on joining Russia. The organizers claimed very high turnout and majorities of between 87% to 99.2% in favour of joining Russia. This “voting” and any other measures by Russia or its proxies to change the status of occupied territory is a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

 

The “referenda” were hastily arranged, taking place over five days with voting organized at so-called polling stations only on the last day, 27 September. Apart from the last day, “ballots” were collected from residents at their home by organizers who went door to door. According to reports in the media and on social media, “voting” at home and at polling stations was often carried out in the presence of heavily armed uniformed men.

 

Amnesty International has received reports of brutal reprisals by the occupying authorities against local people who displayed or were suspected of disloyalty to Russia and its occupying forces. These reprisals include abductions, unlawful deprivation of liberty and torture as well as unlawful killings. The organization has documented such cases in territories liberated by Ukrainian forces.

7 minutes ago, johng said:

Not seen any yet.

That is what the Ukrainians did to the Russian speakers in the east Donbas region of the country  since the maidan coup..the Russian speakers have voted to join  Russia.

Now it looks like Russia will also take Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia too

Ukraine EU/NATO are panicked into talks..trying to stop the relentless advances before there is nothing left to even talk about.

 

The Kremlin is aggrandizing recent Russian military activity to push Ukraine and the West to surrender the territory in Donetsk Oblast that Russian forces are unlikely to seize without several years of campaigning. The Kremlin has been doubling down on the false narrative that Russian battlefield successes are so widespread that a Russian victory is inevitable.[xxiii] 

 

ISW continues to assess that a Russian victory is not inevitable and that the "realities on the ground" show that Russia faces many obstacles in its path to seizing the rest of Donetsk Oblast. ISW assesses that the Russian rate of advance intensified since the Alaska summit, with Russian forces advancing an average of 9.3 square kilometers per day between August 15 and November 20.

 

Russian gains notably have still been confined to a foot pace even during this period of faster advances. Russian forces would finalize the seizure of the remainder of Donetsk Oblast only in August 2027 at this rate of advance, assuming Russian forces can maintain the current faster rate of advance,.

 

https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-23-2025

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

They dont care at this stage. Irrational hatred of Trump caused them to want any outcome - including the obvious one you mention - rather than taking another hard L as Trump ends yet another senseless war.

Absolutely sick.

 

Ends another senseless what now?

 

1 hour ago, johng said:

They already called Russia bluff  and Russia has responded..now they don't like the outcome they should call more bluff ???

How about stop prodding and poking and calling bluffs  instead call for peace...yes losers in war have to agree to the victors terms sorry Ukraine/NATO/EU.

 

But nobody's been declared the victor yet, regardless of how fervently Trump says it's Russia.

3 hours ago, bannork said:

The combined size of the economies of Nato nations – minus the US, Hungary and Slovenia – is over four times that of the Russian Federation. It spends 3.5 to 4 per cent more on defence than the Kremlin. This bloc could muster about 3.2 million troops vs Russia’s 1.5 million. This is a massive amount of power for an alliance to wield and far beyond anything that Russia could resist. Finland has joined Nato to stop Russia doing a Ukraine, or Georgia, on it. Having both of those nations inside a Nato tent, or one that is very similar and has mutual defence sown into it, is a means by which the West can bolster its security without an immediate need for massive new spending.

Europe has chosen the welfare state over defense.   

1 hour ago, johng said:

That is what the Ukrainians did to the Russian speakers in the east Donbas region of the country  since the maidan coup..the Russian speakers have voted to join  Russia.

 

Propaganda.

5 hours ago, bannork said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/11/26/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news-trump-peace-talks/

Putin is making concessions. lol

Get out of Ukraine, you mass murderer. You claim eastern Ukraine wants to be part of Russia so what did you do?

Bomb the hell out of the towns and villages, turning them into rubble. 

Is this how you treat the people you claim love Russia?

 

Now surely it wouldn't take a genius to understand what Russia is trying to do with its latest peace plan for Ukraine – – why on earth would Russia want Ukraine to cut back its armed forces, then prevent it from joining NATO??

Simple to understand: – if Ukraine reduced its armed forces then it would be fairly powerless to prevent Russia invading it again to take back more territory.

Then of course Russia doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO, because if it wants to invade Ukraine again, it doesn't want other countries to be a part of the effort to stop it (i.e. NATO).

 

They are the main reasons IMO that Russia inserted his clauses in the so-called "peace plan", and even blind Freddie could see that – – wake up folks, Russia wants Ukraine, and it wants all of it.

 

AND trump and his cohorts will stand to be enriched by the Russian moves....with trump it is all about the money....or preventing Putin from releasing pics of him with an underage girl.

Can Europe prevent an unjust ‘peace’ in Ukraine – and what is at stake if it fails?

 

Ukraine’s European backers need be clearer with Trump that Ukraine’s security is Europe’s security. Europe is already shouldering most of the cost of Ukraine’s resistance whilst the most game-changing piece of European leverage could turn out to a neuralgic (and Belgium says legally iffy) EU plan for a €140bn “reparations loan” for Ukraine, secured on billions in Russian central bank deposits, frozen in the west by EU sanctions.

 

Brussels suspects that Russia’s economy is in a worse state than it will acknowledge, thanks to such measures as a new EU ban on Russian gas imports. “They [Moscow] want us to believe they can continue this war for ever. This is not true,” Kaja Kallas, the EU high representative and former Estonian PM, told the BBC.

 

For Nathalie Tocci, director of the Italian Institute for International Affairs and a Guardian Europe contributor,.

 the most likely medium-term scenario is not Ukrainian surrender, but one in which the US and Russia (egged on by US hawks, including JD Vance) reach a bilateral deal, leaving Europe to stick with Ukraine.

 

“In this scenario, Europeans should stop deluding themselves that they can work with Trump on Ukraine. They should warmly thank the US president and persuade him to step aside and place his bets on another conflict to get his Nobel peace prize. Either way, the war goes on for now”.

 

EU countries have agreed to gradually phase out the remaining natural gas imports from Russia, with a full ban in place by 1 January 2028, breaking a dependency the bloc has struggled to end since Russia’s war on Ukraine.

The EU energy ministers approved the plans, which would phase out new Russian gas import contracts from 1 January 2026, existing short-term contracts from June 2026, and long-term contracts in January 2028.

While confirming that Russian gas imports will be prohibited from 1 January 2026, the European Council allows for a transition period for existing contracts.

https://shippingtelegraph.com/maritime-insurance-news/eu-agrees-on-plan-to-end-russian-gas-imports-by-end-2027

Who bought Russian fossil fuels October 2025

The EU was the fourth-largest buyer of Russian fossil fuels, accounting for 9% (EUR 1.1 bn) of Russia’s export revenues from the top five importers. The majority of imports, 73% (EUR 824 mn), consisted of LNG and pipeline gas, followed by crude oil at 26% (EUR 311 mn), and a small — 1% (EUR 15 mn) — portion of oil products. 

https://energyandcleanair.org/october-2025-monthly-analysis-of-russian-fossil-fuel-exports-and-sanctions/

Maybe Kaja Kallas, the EU high representative is not aware  that the  EU ban on Russian gas imports doesn't take place until January 1st 2028 

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

EU countries have agreed to gradually phase out the remaining natural gas imports from Russia, with a full ban in place by 1 January 2028, breaking a dependency the bloc has struggled to end since Russia’s war on Ukraine.

The EU energy ministers approved the plans, which would phase out new Russian gas import contracts from 1 January 2026, existing short-term contracts from June 2026, and long-term contracts in January 2028.

While confirming that Russian gas imports will be prohibited from 1 January 2026, the European Council allows for a transition period for existing contracts.

https://shippingtelegraph.com/maritime-insurance-news/eu-agrees-on-plan-to-end-russian-gas-imports-by-end-2027

Who bought Russian fossil fuels October 2025

The EU was the fourth-largest buyer of Russian fossil fuels, accounting for 9% (EUR 1.1 bn) of Russia’s export revenues from the top five importers. The majority of imports, 73% (EUR 824 mn), consisted of LNG and pipeline gas, followed by crude oil at 26% (EUR 311 mn), and a small — 1% (EUR 15 mn) — portion of oil products. 

https://energyandcleanair.org/october-2025-monthly-analysis-of-russian-fossil-fuel-exports-and-sanctions/

Maybe Kaja Kallas, the EU high representative is not aware  that the  EU ban on Russian gas imports doesn't take place until January 1st 2028 

 

As of late 2025, a number of European countries, including Hungary, Slovakia, France, the Netherlands, and Belgium

 continue to purchase Russian oil and other energy products, although overall imports have significantly declined since the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. 

 

The EU has an embargo on seaborne Russian oil, but exceptions and specific market dynamics mean trade continues, particularly via pipelines and for LNG (Liquefied Natural Gas).

 

Key points on which countries are still importing:

Hungary and Slovakia: These are the primary direct buyers of Russian crude oil within the EU, largely due to their historical dependence and the fact they receive oil via the Druzhba pipeline, for which they were granted exemptions to the EU embargo. 

Hungary's state energy company, MOL Group, plays a significant role in these imports.

 

which european countries are buying russian oil - Google Search

 

France, Netherlands, and Belgium: While not importing large volumes of crude, these countries, particularly via ports, are major importers of Russian LNG and other refined products. Trade data for the first eight months of 2025 showed France and the Netherlands had some of the highest values of Russian energy imports in the EU. This is often facilitated by long-term contracts held by energy companies like TotalEnergies and Shell that are difficult to terminate.

 

 

The Ukrainian military is not able to push the Russian Z-Forces out of occupied areas; its important to distinguish the Russian military that is on the frontline from the rest of the Russian military. Russian conscripts are not deployed because public opinion does matter to Putin. He knows how it was the mothers of 15,000 dead conscript  Soviet soldiers who helped collapse the USSR. Forget the communist era propaganda; the average Russian soldier is not a superman, able to absorb endless losses. The Wagner mutiny showed that. Their losses are as a result of institutionally corrupt and incompetant leadership.

 

In an ideal world, with a less weak US government, I'd want to see the following;

 

1. Aggressor countries cannot benefit or profit from the invasion of other countries. Russia cannot benefit from the de facto occupation of Donbas.

2. There must be no international recognition of Russia's claims to the Donbass. Some countries will recognise those claims, but its important Western nations, especially the United States, do not recognise those claims.

3. Land registry titles of private enterprises from pre-occupied Ukraine are to be retained by the Ukrainian state until the question of sovereignty is settled

4. No land transactions in the occupied areas are to be recognised

5. Russia to allow Ukrainian citizens currently and formally resident in the occupied area to freely move to the Free Zone.

6. Russia is to provide compensation to Ukrainian citizens affected by the war. The compensation scheme does not extend to Ukrainians who chose to renounce their citizenship. Compensation shall be based on loss of family, injury, damage to property, loss of enjoyment of property, loss of lifetime earnings. Compensation to be paid out of overseas Russian bank deposits, with private citizens taking priority over corporate compensation schemes. Compensation claims to be administered by an international panel.

7. Subject to claims, Russia may regain access to seized assets with compliance with simple international demands:

a. Russia to adequately investigate alleged violations of Russian law by the members of the Russian government in February 2022, such as violations of Articles 359 (funding mercernaries) 353 (acts of war), Article 208 (participation in mercenary formations). Those found guilty would be subject to Russian codes of punishment. Members of the Duma will be offered conditional immunity from prosecution.

b. In the event of the Russian judiciary being unwilling or unable to prosecute members of the Russian government, an international tribunal will be convened. Those found guilty within international courts will be subject to third country codes and place of punishment. Afghanistan will be offered generous compensation as gaoler in the event of such a situation, with offers to renovate the prison as Mazer El Sharif.

c. International restrictions and claims to remain in place until adequate judicial investigation and executions are carried out.

8. Without recognition of de jure Russian claims, no major investor, no hotel group, no shipping corporation will go anywhere near Donbass/Crimea. The costs of rebuilding and supporting the remaining population will be entirely borne by the Russian state. Unemployment rates are likely to be high, resulting in substantive welfare bills paid for by the Russian state, unless Russia decides the residents are not entitled to the rights of ordinary Russian citizens. No Holiday Inn, Marriot, Ibis, Sheraton etc investing in the Crimean riveria. Chinese investors may invest in the increasingly decrepit mining concerns, but will likely ship in their own workforce, as they have done in other countries. Russia will have no choice. The Donbass might be theirs, but it will bleed them dry, until one day, the Russian people, the Moskal, decide they no longer have any love for the Khokol.

9. The Ukrainian Compensation fund to be constituted from overseas Russian banking assets, and a 20% levy on all Russia origin international flights; those Russians wanting a nice little break in Thailand and Turkey, and pretend the world is normal will have to pay extra for that feeling. The fund  is closed when all claims have been settled, or a period of 50 years has elapsed, whichever comes first. Any remaining funds to be disbursed to the Russian government.

10. Readmission to international bodies, such as the G8, will be based on good faith evidence of Russian government compliance with judicial investigation.

11. All existing treaties and agreements between Ukraine and Russia to be declared null and void until Russia shows evidence of good faith. Failure to continue to financially support the costs of maintaining the Chornabyl structure will be treated as a claim against the Russian state. Water sharing agreements between Kherson and Crimea will be halted. Crimea will need to secure its water supply from Russia, by either tanker supply, or Russia funding for a new pipeline, probably built by Chinese engineers.

 

A plan should include a Russian route to rehabilitation, but should not include reward.

5 hours ago, xylophone said:

Now surely it wouldn't take a genius to understand what Russia is trying to do with its latest peace plan for Ukraine – – why on earth would Russia want Ukraine to cut back its armed forces, then prevent it from joining NATO??

Simple to understand: – if Ukraine reduced its armed forces then it would be fairly powerless to prevent Russia invading it again to take back more territory.

Then of course Russia doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO, because if it wants to invade Ukraine again, it doesn't want other countries to be a part of the effort to stop it (i.e. NATO).

 

They are the main reasons IMO that Russia inserted his clauses in the so-called "peace plan", and even blind Freddie could see that – – wake up folks, Russia wants Ukraine, and it wants all of it.

 

AND trump and his cohorts will stand to be enriched by the Russian moves....with trump it is all about the money....or preventing Putin from releasing pics of him with an underage girl.

 

What about the photos and footage circulating of Putin kissing a small boy in a very odd way.

 

 

Rather clever of the slaphead Putin to ensure he was never photographed in the company of Jimmy Savile.

9 hours ago, johng said:

the Russian speakers have voted to join  Russia.

 

 

Except the Russian speakers deported to Siberia.

 

https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russian-occupation-update-november-20-2025/

18 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

 

What about the photos and footage circulating of Putin kissing a small boy in a very odd way.

 

 

Rather clever of the slaphead Putin to ensure he was never photographed in the company of Jimmy Savile.

Perhaps Putin and Trump had a bit of a "kiddie fest" in Russia, Vlad with a small boy and dirty Donny with a 12 year old girl (as was mentioned in another post).....that's the reason Vlad has something over Donny!! 

20 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

The Ukrainian military is not able to push the Russian Z-Forces out of occupied areas; its important to distinguish the Russian military that is on the frontline from the rest of the Russian military. Russian conscripts are not deployed because public opinion does matter to Putin. He knows how it was the mothers of 15,000 dead conscript  Soviet soldiers who helped collapse the USSR. Forget the communist era propaganda; the average Russian soldier is not a superman, able to absorb endless losses. The Wagner mutiny showed that. Their losses are as a result of institutionally corrupt and incompetant leadership.

 

In an ideal world, with a less weak US government, I'd want to see the following;

 

1. Aggressor countries cannot benefit or profit from the invasion of other countries. Russia cannot benefit from the de facto occupation of Donbas.

2. There must be no international recognition of Russia's claims to the Donbass. Some countries will recognise those claims, but its important Western nations, especially the United States, do not recognise those claims.

3. Land registry titles of private enterprises from pre-occupied Ukraine are to be retained by the Ukrainian state until the question of sovereignty is settled

4. No land transactions in the occupied areas are to be recognised

5. Russia to allow Ukrainian citizens currently and formally resident in the occupied area to freely move to the Free Zone.

6. Russia is to provide compensation to Ukrainian citizens affected by the war. The compensation scheme does not extend to Ukrainians who chose to renounce their citizenship. Compensation shall be based on loss of family, injury, damage to property, loss of enjoyment of property, loss of lifetime earnings. Compensation to be paid out of overseas Russian bank deposits, with private citizens taking priority over corporate compensation schemes. Compensation claims to be administered by an international panel.

7. Subject to claims, Russia may regain access to seized assets with compliance with simple international demands:

a. Russia to adequately investigate alleged violations of Russian law by the members of the Russian government in February 2022, such as violations of Articles 359 (funding mercernaries) 353 (acts of war), Article 208 (participation in mercenary formations). Those found guilty would be subject to Russian codes of punishment. Members of the Duma will be offered conditional immunity from prosecution.

b. In the event of the Russian judiciary being unwilling or unable to prosecute members of the Russian government, an international tribunal will be convened. Those found guilty within international courts will be subject to third country codes and place of punishment. Afghanistan will be offered generous compensation as gaoler in the event of such a situation, with offers to renovate the prison as Mazer El Sharif.

c. International restrictions and claims to remain in place until adequate judicial investigation and executions are carried out.

8. Without recognition of de jure Russian claims, no major investor, no hotel group, no shipping corporation will go anywhere near Donbass/Crimea. The costs of rebuilding and supporting the remaining population will be entirely borne by the Russian state. Unemployment rates are likely to be high, resulting in substantive welfare bills paid for by the Russian state, unless Russia decides the residents are not entitled to the rights of ordinary Russian citizens. No Holiday Inn, Marriot, Ibis, Sheraton etc investing in the Crimean riveria. Chinese investors may invest in the increasingly decrepit mining concerns, but will likely ship in their own workforce, as they have done in other countries. Russia will have no choice. The Donbass might be theirs, but it will bleed them dry, until one day, the Russian people, the Moskal, decide they no longer have any love for the Khokol.

9. The Ukrainian Compensation fund to be constituted from overseas Russian banking assets, and a 20% levy on all Russia origin international flights; those Russians wanting a nice little break in Thailand and Turkey, and pretend the world is normal will have to pay extra for that feeling. The fund  is closed when all claims have been settled, or a period of 50 years has elapsed, whichever comes first. Any remaining funds to be disbursed to the Russian government.

10. Readmission to international bodies, such as the G8, will be based on good faith evidence of Russian government compliance with judicial investigation.

11. All existing treaties and agreements between Ukraine and Russia to be declared null and void until Russia shows evidence of good faith. Failure to continue to financially support the costs of maintaining the Chornabyl structure will be treated as a claim against the Russian state. Water sharing agreements between Kherson and Crimea will be halted. Crimea will need to secure its water supply from Russia, by either tanker supply, or Russia funding for a new pipeline, probably built by Chinese engineers.

 

A plan should include a Russian route to rehabilitation, but should not include reward.

And they all lived happily ever after. The End - cool story bro. 

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Perhaps Putin and Trump had a bit of a "kiddie fest" in Russia, Vlad with a small boy and dirty Donny with a 12 year old girl (as was mentioned in another post).....that's the reason Vlad has something over Donny!! 

No visual Kompromat will work anymore in the age of sophisticated AI as it will be virtually impossible to determine whether it was real or fabricated. 

This chap a Russian exiles says what needs to be said and why exactly they will "win". We don't want to die or lose our benefits. Born in conmfort and hope to die in it. My father was born in the depression and ate lard sandwiches as a child and joined up as soon as they let poor eyesight in in 1940. Meanwhile our bags are packed for our 3 month  retirement stay in Jomtien. To enjoy the sunshine with the rest of you under the watchful eye of basically a miliatry dictatorship. Where every other billboard tells  me who's in charge and we all keep quiet because them's the rules and we are happy ignoring the elephant in the room. 

 

 https://www.instagram.com/p/DRjey4IjNYi/