An easy and definite option to avoid Thai tax residency that several long term Thai Visa holders that I personally know (including myself) is... Never stay more than 180 days in Thailand per calendar year starting 1st January. Not ideal for many here, but perfectly workable for many others.

2 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

An easy and definite option to avoid Thai tax residency that several long term Thai Visa holders that I personally know (including myself) is... Never stay more than 180 days in Thailand per calendar year starting 1st January. Not ideal for many here, but perfectly workable for many others.

I'm planning on doing exactly this in 2026 (Planning to buy a Condo) & would love to learn where guys are spending the 6 months or so outside of Thailand?

18 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

There remains a risk that Thai Immigration will require a Thai tax ID to obtain/renew a Non-O visa. Maybe or maybe not. Not happened. Yet... Never say never. Hopefully not.

There are always risks in life. There is a risk that Type-O and OA annual visa renewal price could increase (HOPEFULLY NOT). There is a risk such visas could be cancelled (HIGHLY UNLIKELY IMHO). There is a risk of nuclear Armageddon (hopefully NEVER). There is a risk anyone of us could get involved in a Thai vehicle accident (THIS is MORE LIKELY).

Lets look at we know.

We know a number of expats who live in Thailand > 180 days, applied for a tax-ID and were denied such. I know that for a fact. I was one of those denied a tax-ID.

We know we don't read any reports of the MANY MANY MANY expats who go for annual extensions, being asked for tax IDs. OK? We know that we don't read of such.

We know that there are many different countries each with different Double Tax Agreements with Thailand, ... where it is very difficult for anyone in Government in Thailand to know what remitted income to Thailand may be assessable and which income may not be assessable (due to various DTAs). It is complex. its not an easy topic. We know trying to figure out which remitted income is assessable and which remitted income is not assessable (based on dozens of different DTAs) is very very difficult for even tax experts, much less the Thai RD, and even less for the Thai immigration.

And further, I ask what do we know in regards to any concerns re: immigration cooperating with the Thai RD requiring a tax ID for expats? Well we know such giving a tax ID to all expats is currently against the in practice Thai RD policy, based on them not granting tax-IDs to many of us.

I think we both agree (for many expats) that hopefully a tax ID will not be needed.

I think even if a tax-ID eventually may be required, it will also not be so bad, due to Thai Ministerial document POR.161/162 (re: tax free pre-1-Jan-2024 savings if remitted), and due to various DTA with Thaliand, as many will not pay Thai tax, and worst case for those (who need not pay) would be the potential irritation to submit a Thai tax return if their assessable income met the pre-requisite threshold, which is not a certainty given much remitted income at present can be considered not assessable. Obviously (to me at least) is every expat should look at their own income situation, note the income source, note the timing of any savings, and note the DTA with one's income source country, and be aware as to one's potential exposure.

1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

There remains a risk that Thai Immigration will require a Thai tax ID to obtain/renew a Non-O visa. Maybe or maybe not. Not happened. Yet... Never say never. Hopefully not.

What about those who do not need to file a tax return because they have not remitted to Thailand assessable expenditure in excess of ฿ุ60k (if single) or ฿120k (if married) in a particular tax year? They could well be barred from obtaining fresh annual extensions of stay for that reason alone if the preposterous scenario you refer to were to come about!

1 hour ago, soi3eddie said:

An easy and definite option to avoid Thai tax residency that several long term Thai Visa holders that I personally know (including myself) is... Never stay more than 180 days in Thailand per calendar year starting 1st January. Not ideal for many here, but perfectly workable for many others.

As I understand things, avoiding tax residency anywhere worldwide for us Brits could involve spending 180 days max in Thailand + 183 days max in the UK + at least 2 days (3 in a leap year) in a third tax jurisdiction each year. Might not the extra travelling, accommodation, etc expenses which we would face through hopping between tax jurisdictions exceed by a not insignificant margin the amount of any tax payments which might otherwise be due to the TRD if we were instead to reside in Thailand for a whole tax year?

11 hours ago, SamSpade said:

1) Taking the money out and putting it back in again means you've withdrawn the money & it will be "Last In" if you put it back.

Still, it could be the same old money that you've withdrawn for instance in cash then deposit the cash back later on. No new earnings.

11 hours ago, SamSpade said:

2) Technically, CRS means TRD can see all of your transactions...

No. CRS reports only accounts balance and some earned interest/dividend. No full transactions history.

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

Still, it could be the same old money that you've withdrawn for instance in cash then deposit the cash back later on. No new earnings.

No. CRS reports only accounts balance and some earned interest/dividend. No full transactions history.

Again all of this is from a "Technical" viewpoint and I don't believe TRD would do this unless they were auditing you (BTW I've seen a couple of videos that say the criteria for audits is >1.2Million (originally this was reported as >2 Million) remitted OR >400 remittances.

For the cash, it doesn't matter TRD would see it as new money going into the account so unless you could prove it wasn't from income (Take pictures of the seriel numbers withdrawn/deposited) then it's up to them whether they treat it as income or not.

CRS gives TRD the right to ask for full transaction data from any other CRS country's Tax authority so if the RD of the country where the income/assets are has a list of your transactions, then TRD could get that list.

9 hours ago, OJAS said:

As I understand things, avoiding tax residency anywhere worldwide for us Brits could involve spending 180 days max in Thailand + 183 days max in the UK + at least 2 days (3 in a leap year) in a third tax jurisdiction each year. Might not the extra travelling, accommodation, etc expenses which we would face through hopping between tax jurisdictions exceed by a not insignificant margin the amount of any tax payments which might otherwise be due to the TRD if we were instead to reside in Thailand for a whole tax year?

I think a lot of guys are doing it just to avoid the hassle with TRD but once you have your TIN and get in the habit of documenting each remittance you make, it only takes a few minutes to do the return online.

I'm planning on doing it this year as I want to buy a Condo and >80% of the money will come from my PCLS (Pension Commencement Lump Sum) which is Tax Free in the UK so fully taxable in Thailand and I guestimate I'm looking at >3Million in Tax which will pay for a few nice holidays :).

32 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

Again all of this is from a "Technical" viewpoint and I don't believe TRD would do this unless they were auditing you (BTW I've seen a couple of videos that say the criteria for audits is >1.2Million (originally this was reported as >2 Million) remitted OR >400 remittances.

For the cash, it doesn't matter TRD would see it as new money going into the account so unless you could prove it wasn't from income (Take pictures of the seriel numbers withdrawn/deposited) then it's up to them whether they treat it as income or not.

CRS gives TRD the right to ask for full transaction data from any other CRS country's Tax authority so if the RD of the country where the income/assets are has a list of your transactions, then TRD could get that list.

To sum you up, you think TRD can mostly get and access to all the information they require, double-checking data is genuine/up-to-date, from any jurisdiction and individuals. I think not.

Will be difficult to get a settling answer as long as no individual tax audit is reported.

On 1/6/2026 at 10:15 AM, oldcpu said:

There are two Thai Ministerial directives, POR.161 and POR.162, which together note that any foreign income from before 1-Jan-2024 is considered savings, and hence is not taxable if brought into Thailand.

I am not aware of any official guidance as to how to 'prove' this.

The approach that I believe worth while to adopt, is to have a record of all savings as of close of business on the last day of 2023 (I think that was Friday 29-Dec-2023, but i may have my day of week wrong). Have a print out recorded of one's foreign cash position in banks, outside of Thailand on that date. Then have a spreadsheet from that data onward, recording all transactions of money brought into Thailand, such that it can be credibly proven that all money brought into Thailand was from cash on 29-Dec-2023. [Possibly Sunday 31-Dec-2023 is a better end-date].

Where it comes 'tricky' is how non-cash 'savings' are assessed re:POR.161/162. i don't know the official position there of the Thai government. For example equities purchased in year 2022, but sold in year 2025, ... are those considered savings? I supposed on could note the market value of those equities at close of business on Friday 29-Dec-2023 (or perhaps Sunday 31-Dec-2023, IF there is weekend trading?? ) ... and hence the value of those equities on 31-Dec might (and I emphasize might) be considered savings. But I do not know the official answer - my guess is they are NOT considered savings. However perhaps the year-2022 cash value used to purchase those equities might be considered savings? But again - I don't know. Clearly the cash was changed to equities, and equities are not nominally (IMHO) considered savings? or are are equities considered savings?

I believe there has been debate on this, with different opinions held. ... But any cash position on 31-Dec-2023, is IMHO clearly savings, and as long as one has a spreadsheet and financial documents to show the money remitted to Thailand came from that cash, then I suspect one is on solid ground if audited.

.

Would using Wise, TransferWise, to exchange such savings to THB efficiently, create a problem when trying to prove that the cash remitted into Thailand is "savings" rather than fresh income?

Can you recommend an accountant to do the Thai income tax return?
(to give the impression of a stamp of an authoritative approval to Thai Revenue)

42 minutes ago, gavitronic said:

Would using Wise, TransferWise, to exchange such savings to THB efficiently, create a problem when trying to prove that the cash remitted into Thailand is "savings" rather than fresh income?

I would not use the word 'problem', but it could complicate this a bit if audited.

My view is to (1) have a print out of all one's assets as of end-day 31-Dec-2023 (especially cash position). For any equities held on 31-Dec-2023, note what the original purchase was previously (as such was purchased with cash).

(2) note any profit made from equities sold after 31-Dec-2023 (as that dependent on a DTA may (or may not) be taxable if remitted to Thailand.

(3) keep track of all cash withdrawn from the accounts that had cash end-of-business on 31-Dec-2023.

(4) keep track of all cash from (3) that is remitted to Thailand (as per Por-161/162 that is nominally tax exempt).

With that information and with appropriate bank account and financial structuring, it should be feasible to make it clear if any remitted cash is tax exempt per Thai law and per Thai ministerial directives.

42 minutes ago, gavitronic said:

Can you recommend an accountant to do the Thai income tax return?
(to give the impression of a stamp of an authoritative approval to Thai Revenue)

No. I have no accountant to recommend.

IMHO any accountant will ask for the information I noted above, and then will simply possibly restructure such and put an accountant stamp on it. Further such is likely only needed if one is audited.

Having an accountant stamp, and structure ones appropriate financial remittance records, may, or may not, help. My (possibly not relevant) experience with an accountant in Canada is the accountant I choose only garnered more attention (from Revenue Canada) as Revenue Canada was fully aware that this accountant's submissions in regards to tax were borderline to possibly shady. Ever since one difficult year with Revenue Canada (in Canada), I have always avoided tax experts and tax accountants (in Canada) and done my own Canadian tax returns. Perhaps i was just unlucky there.

In contrast, in Germany, for years, I had I tax accountant who did my tax returns who was very good.

.

Does anyone here in the forum have practical experience regarding whether TRD accepts the requested bank statements (as of December 31, 2023) not only in original form but also as computer printouts? Has anyone submitted printouts and then had to provide originals?

4 hours ago, gavitronic said:

Would using Wise, TransferWise, to exchange such savings to THB efficiently, create a problem when trying to prove that the cash remitted into Thailand is "savings" rather than fresh income?

If the Wise transfer is from a savings/checking account -- whose Dec 31 2023 end value was known and available for a possible future audit -- then my argument is that you can Wise transfer today -- and in the future -- the total value of that account that existed on Dec 31 2023.

Yes, a viable argument has been made that, if you recycle funds out and back into this savings account -- that the Dec 31 2023 value has been violated. I don't agree, as the concept of fungibility -- where in this case, there are no actual monies, with serial numbers and dates, removed and replaced. Thus, it's the value on Dec 31 2023 -- not the fungible monies in the account -- current or future.

Anyway, this potential grey area just means: If you're smart, you'll give yourself the benefit of the doubt -- and use the RD apparently acceptable concept that the Dec 31 2023 value of your account is what you can remit to Thailand tax free, currently and in the future.

To do otherwise would be stupid. First, if your self-assessment of this concept means no assessable and taxable income -- and thus no need to file a tax return -- you're off the Thai RD radar screen -- thus chance of audit is zip. But, if somehow audited (like, they see you've remitted a super large amount) -- then show your account statement for Dec 31 2023, and the account statement for the Wise withdrawals and remittances. I don't know about CRS, but Yanks are under the FATCA agreements -- and transaction activity is NOT reported. So, don't worry about back filling activity. Relax.

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Yes, a viable argument has been made that, if you recycle funds out and back into this savings account -- that the Dec 31 2023 value has been violated. I don't agree, as the concept of fungibility -- where in this case, there are no actual monies, with serial numbers and dates, removed and replaced. Thus, it's the value on Dec 31 2023 -- not the fungible monies in the account -- current or future.

The very definition of First In First Out is that if you take money out of an account you are subtracting it from the very earliest monies that was in there. Putting it back at some point later even with the same serial numbers (IMHO) doesn't change that & I can't see a Revenue Department entertaining that as an argument.

Again, I'm talking about Technically here not suggesting how TRD would treat it, I just believe that people blindly believing their balance at the 31/12/2023 as a given for how much they can remit is a little bit dangerous, especially if there are large sums involved.

34 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

Again, I'm talking about Technically here not suggesting how TRD would treat it, I just believe that people blindly believing their balance at the 31/12/2023 as a given for how much they can remit is a little bit dangerous, especially if there are large sums involved.

I believe making one's aware from TRD by filing a tax return is way more "dangerous" than your above statement.

That said, who cares about our beliefs... what's relevant is what is happening in the real life isn't it?

16 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I believe making one's aware from TRD by filing a tax return is way more "dangerous" than your above statement.

That said, who cares about our beliefs... what's relevant is what is happening in the real life isn't it?

Amen… We all need to decide what we believe is best for us…

I've decided to file (to the best of my abilities) so at worse will get a slap on the wrist for filing incorrectly.

You've chosen not to file & I highly doubt anything will happen to you (Unless you've sent serious money over).

12 hours ago, SamSpade said:

You've chosen not to file & I highly doubt anything will happen to you (Unless you've sent serious money over).

I've sent substantial money over for decades even not strictly following the old rule where foreign income was tax exempted if not remitted the year it was earned, like most if not all foreigners residing in the kingdom. I assess remittances were anyway tax exempted at least the main part of it. Nothing has happened and nothing is currently happening taxwise like for most if not all foreigner residents in the same situation. If improbably things change in the future I will adapt accordingly, as most of us will do. And no, it won't be the end of the world.

On 1/10/2026 at 10:13 AM, Yumthai said:

To sum you up, you think TRD can mostly get and access to all the information they require, double-checking data is genuine/up-to-date, from any jurisdiction and individuals. I think not.

Will be difficult to get a settling answer as long as no individual tax audit is reported.

Folks Thailands retired expats dont only come from the UK, the EU, the US and Australia They come from between 50-100 different countries....

And all these countries have different languages and different writing, different banking laws, different retirement plans, different DTAs, different tax structures, and different investment and security laws etc etc

Throw in the confusing mess that Thailand is regarding taxes and immigration, where each individual officer and office loves to make up their own rules on the fly, with almost ZERO education on what's going on with other countries' laws or treaties.....

And what you have on your hands is a cluster F>>k of epic proportions...

Trust me folks we will all be long gone from Earth before they ever figure all this out....

Simply put the whole tax thing is such an epic mess, it just is not happening....

13 hours ago, SamSpade said:

Amen… We all need to decide what we believe is best for us…

I've decided to file (to the best of my abilities) so at worse will get a slap on the wrist for filing incorrectly.

You've chosen not to file & I highly doubt anything will happen to you (Unless you've sent serious money over).

Keep in mind, many foreigners living in Thailand are not required to file tax returns. Some are living off savings (in a Thai bank) that they remitted when they were not tax residents. Some only remit non-assessable income such as; pre-2024 monies, gov't and civil service pensions, or other exempt monies covered by DTAs. Others may be on LTR visas. I am not required to file due to all of those reasons. For those who do remit assessable income in excess of the tax filing threshold, my guess is a large majority do not file tax returns and never have. I have never read or heard of anyone getting into trouble for not filing, so the odds are probably very (extremely) low that one will get into trouble for not filing.

20 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

Boy I tell you for the 90-95% of Thais who have never filed taxes in their life add in the late fees and interest over a lifetime and I bet loads of Thais would owe a million dollars by now...

36 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

He never answered the question as to how many audits he has actually seen. Also, he said taxpayers can be contacted through the e-filing system or by letter which to me implies those taxpayers already have TIN numbers. I didn't learn anything from this video.

4 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Some only remit non-assessable income such as; pre-2024 monies, gov't and civil service pensions, or other exempt monies covered by DTAs.

That is still a mystery for me.

Let's say I have 100.000 Euro in a savings account for more than a decade already. Since 2024 I'm eligible for a pension which goes in the same account. So in the meantime that 100.000 has become 120.000 Euro

Tomorrow I want to transfer 20.000 Euro to Thailand.

Am I transferring savings or the pension I received?

1 minute ago, CallumWK said:

That is still a mystery for me.

Let's say I have 100.000 Euro in a savings account for more than a decade already. Since 2024 I'm eligible for a pension which goes in the same account. So in the meantime that 100.000 has become 120.000 Euro

Tomorrow I want to transfer 20.000 Euro to Thailand.

Am I transferring savings or the pension I received?

I would say FIFO until the original 100k is withdrawn. I understand it can be confusing, that's why I kept my monies in separate accts. I left my 2023 in old acct, then opened new acct for my 2024 income. I opened different acct for my US gov't money since it's tax exempt by DTA. I ended up getting a LTR-WP visa last year, so I no longer have to worry.

37 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

I ended up getting a LTR-WP visa last year, so I no longer have to worry.

What are the rules for LTR holders, is it money from previous years is exempt or does it include income from this year?

With a bit of luck the proposed change will get back on the table & we’ll all be able to bring in income from this/last year tax free.

1 minute ago, SamSpade said:

With a pit of luck the proposed change will get back on the table & we’ll all be able to bring in income from this/last year tax free.

if any rules change in favor of foreigners and thais bringing money into thailand, it would happen no earlier than 2027,

but only with a bit of luck ...

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

He never answered the question as to how many audits he has actually seen. Also, he said taxpayers can be contacted through the e-filing system or by letter which to me implies those taxpayers already have TIN numbers. I didn't learn anything from this video.

I also reads like he lumped local Thai income (rentals) with foreign remitted income. So its not a very clear assessment in regards to audits nor why (ie is it mostly for local income earners vs those remitting foreign income)?

9 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

What are the rules for LTR holders, is it money from previous years is exempt or does it include income from this year?

With a bit of luck the proposed change will get back on the table & we’ll all be able to bring in income from this/last year tax free.

Very recently, in DIRECT correspondence to a couple of different LTR-WP visa holders, BoI noted the guidance that they received from the RD was that to be Thai tax exempt, remitted income for the noted LTR visa holder must be remitted in a year different from the year it was earned. ... ie income remitted in the same year it was earned would potentially be Thailand taxable (dependent on DTAs and other factors). This IMHO was a big change in BoI's position in regards to LTR visa holder's Thailand tax exemption. To the best of my knowledge, BoI have yet to publicly post this important detail.

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

Very recently, in DIRECT correspondence to a couple of different LTR-WP visa holders, BoI noted the guidance that they received from the RD was that to be tax exempt, remitted income for the noted LTR visa holder must be remitted in a year different from the year it was earned. ... ie income remitted in the same year it was earned would potentially be taxable (dependent on DTAs and other factors). This IMHO was a big change in BoI's position in regards to LTR visa holder's tax exemption. To the best of my knowledge, BoI have yet to publicly post this important detail.

Thanks, hoping to get the LTR this year & plan on spending <180 days in Thailand this year so hopefully from next year I’ll be able to bring in previous year’s income

7 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

if any rules change in favor of foreigners and thais bringing money into thailand, it would happen no earlier than 2027,

but only with a bit of luck ...

Technically they could make it apply to this year (but not last without massive upheaval to 2025 returns) but I’d be happy with 2027 :)

Besides savings before 2024, aren't any savings I bring into Thailand that I had before I was a Thai tax resident exempt from tax as well? Say I was not a Thai tax resident in 2025 but I am one in 2026 and I have 100k USD in savings in my western bank account in December 2025. I bring this 100k USD into Thailand on January 1st. Then I am still not liable to pay tax on it, am I right?

where I do think it gets confusing is if you have say 100k sitting in a foreign bank account and you start sending your income to that bank account as well, while remitting some of the balance to Thailand sometimes. in other words, say I get 2000 in foreign income every month and add that to my savings, but I also remit 2000 a month to Thailand, but I claim what I actually remit are my savings from before and not my income. I am assuming the tax liability is then only triggered once the barrier of 100k remittance is crossed, since that was my balance before I became a Thai tax resident?