What do u think?

A previous British Home Secretary not understanding how the legal system works in terms of "burden of proof".

The whole thing:

Have a strict burden of proof!

Id execute 2+ murderers, 2+rapes.

The last person to get hung in the UK was the reason it was later cancelled. He didn't actual commit a murder, it happened that the guy who shot and killed a policeman was to young to hang, so they hung the guy who was not guilty but was nearby shouting "do it."

Numerous people executed in the U.S. who were later found innocent through DNA evidence.

My state abolished capital punishment in 1853, after only one execution. The state botched it and official witnesses testified their horror before the state legislature.

Oh we need to abolish this abhorrent practise, the same with police having guns in the USA !

2 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

Oh we need to abolish this abhorrent practise, the same with police having guns in the USA !

Then try living in America where only the criminals have the guns. Most other places as well.

For certain crimes yes. Some people are plain evil, taught by being abused and or neglected and starting very young. First torturing and killing animals then turning to humans. Targeting innocent people who have their whole lives ahead of them to enjoy at least some of life before they go onto a better place.

Some have gotten so far off having a conscience they need to be excused from this life. Some who kill one and think about what they've done are a different matter, especially if it was also an innocent and not a crime of passion. They might regret it and it might eat them alive the rest of their days, and living in a jail cell thinking about what they did is painful enough. Many have been hung for war crimes and deserved it, as they are beyond evil, into a darker realm, looking at some others as disposable, all the while not understanding it was them who was not necessary.

Those who target one innocent after another, especially children, like Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy, just to name three, have no place in society. At least Bundy knew this and went to Florida, knowing he would receive the death penalty. Too late to save a lot of women and a girl, but at least it ended. These types are taught daily, all over the world, and live next door to someone. They're sad excuses for parents are first to blame. The one problem with the death penalty is that some have received it while innocent, and those that delivered it from ineptitude, like the prosecutors, need to be jailed themselves. DNA has helped a lot but mistakes are still made, which means beyond a shadow of a doubt before it's carried out. Makes me think of The Green Mile.

Hell yea. Let the survivor or family decide, death or life in prison, no parole. Can't kill enough of them, or build enough max prisons, as far as I'm concerned. 1st degree murder, no option of prison, death only.

If a jury executes an innocent person, execute the jury?

Yes to capital punishment but with some caveats:

1. Execution in public. To be monetized through a recorded blooper reel Cops type TV show, to cover the costs to the state.

2. Counseling services will not be offered. Grow up. You supported it, now revel in it.

3. Condemmed are given one appeal, to be delivered within 15 days of sentence being passed.

4. Execution date is set at the state's choosing. The condemmed is given 30 minutes notice to make his or her peace. Mass execution to be encouraged for efficiency.

5. Public participation in the act by ballot, in the same way one is selected for jury service, one is selected for execution service, with few opt outs (opt outs; you need to designate an alternate, eg wife, sibling, parent, children). If a nation wants the death penalty, then the public should own it. Hotdog sales to be encouraged, hot chocolate on cold days.

6. Public witnesses are not told of the crime. The condemmed is not named by the state at the time of execution, except for record keeping purposes. You take their word for it, as you watch their bowels release. All condemmed are equal in the eyes of the law

7. Electric chair, gas, lethal injection to be banned. Pole hanging sounds great. Someone does a countdown on a megaphone to add to the sense of theatre.

8. Mobile execution devices to be designed and manufactured, and legislation enabled to enable designation of any public space as an interim execution ground. Could enable space in supermarket carparks, on a saturday, to be utilised.

9. No hoods on the condemned

10. Capital punishment to be extended to beyond murder, to include drug dealing/manufacture/delivery and certain white collar crimes, based on overall harm to society as well as the individual. Financial crime should not merely be a cost of doing business.

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Hell yea. Let the survivor or family decide, death or life in prison, no parole. Can't kill enough of them, or build enough max prisons, as far as I'm concerned. 1st degree murder, no option of prison, death only.

Liberal lightweight. Why only murder?

55 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Id execute 2+ murderers, 2+rapes.

So soft on kiddie fiddlers and drug peddlers. Predictable.

59 minutes ago, Real Name Hidden said:

My state abolished capital punishment in 1853, after only one execution. The state botched it and official witnesses testified their horror before the state legislature.

We have dna now

20 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

So soft on kiddie fiddlers and drug peddlers. Predictable.

Ok then lefties as well.

30 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

Liberal lightweight. Why only murder?

Not just murder, but 1st degree, no other option. Rape (not statutory), or ANY pedophilia, kidnapping/human trafficking, and the death penalty, definitely on the table, with mandatory life as minimum sentence, NO parole.

Some people just don't deserve to walk among us.

These offenders need counselling,I don't like to see anyone punished as such

Last year I was brutally attacked in Lopburi in Thailand after trying to take a picture and sitting next to the offender where I received a sharp fast slap on the back of my head resulting in long lasting PTSD

The detective who later that night came to my motel room asked me what I wanted to do when they caught the offender

I immediately said some type of counselling

58 minutes ago, Purdey said:

The last person to get hung in the UK was the reason it was later cancelled. He didn't actual commit a murder, it happened that the guy who shot and killed a policeman was to young to hang, so they hung the guy who was not guilty but was nearby shouting "do it."

Numerous people executed in the U.S. who were later found innocent through DNA evidence.

The last people to be hanged in the UK were Peter Anthony and Gwynne Evans, in 1963, who both beat a man to death for £10. They blamed each other. There was no doubt about their culpability. You are thinking of Derek Bentley, hanged 10 years earlier. He and a juvenile were robbing a place and caught by a passing Bobbie.. The words that condemned him were "Let him have it", which for some were ambivalent (was it an order to shoot the peeler, or an exortion to hand the revolver over).

Whats the purpose of capital punishment? It eliminates a criminal, that's all. It doesn't deter, because even in countries with very tough laws, crime still occurs. It eliminates a criminal, at the risk of collateral damage (the innocent getting caught up). But we already collectively authorise the state to carry out acts on our behalf that might result in collateral damage.

For instance war, approval of medicines, cancer treatment policies, preventative health policies. We institute the policy of ALARP into our risk management.

When Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazillian electrician, ran for his train in the summer of 2005, armed officers blow his head off with at least 9 fragmenting rounds. It was very sad for him and his family, and the Police Commissioner duely fined for a breach of health and safety law. But ultimately, no officer was found guilty because their actions outweighed the risk to society if he had been a bomber.

Policies directed by the state might cause a few people to have a fatal reaction to a medicine, but the collective benefit to society is immense. Every medicine sold is not good for someone someplace.

Last Christmas day, the US launched a barrage of Tomahawks at targets in Northern Nigeria. The assumption, largely unquestioned, was that the targets represented a clear and present danger to the United States. At least 3 missiles failed to reach their targets. There is a general acceptance, through lack of debate, that the targets must have been correct, any accidental deaths must have been worth it.

But the public's conscience is suddenly somehow troubled by the fate of one person. Miscarriages of Justice occur, and compensation is paid, but we are not troubled by the compensation then being reduced when the state levies charges for room and board.

Is fears of injustice the main driver for opposition to capital punishment, or lack of a strong stomach. Ignoring the US, with its general lip service to appeals, which often serve as a form of extended, extrajudicial punishment, in countries where there is capital punishment, there is generally public support for it.

In Japan, over 80% of the population support the death penalty. In Korea, its 70% is support. 75% in Indonesia. 70% in China. If I include the US, its about 55-60%.

The percentage of murderers who are actually innocent is very low; 1%. There may be mitigations, but that is different. So, Western society considers 1% to be an unacceptable risk to the innocent. But what is the acceptable risk?

We happily accept the fact that 7% of 1 year old cars are in such a dangerous condition they should not be driven. 200 people a year die of food allergies, but we do not seek to eliminate all substances that can cause anaphylaxis from the food chain.

About 600 people a year in the US die at the hands of the police, usually through shootings.The Washington Post stated in 2017, they estimated there were 987 officer involved shootings. They estimated 168 of these shootings resulted in an "unjustified" death. So, very roughly, 28% of people shot by the police didn't deserve to die. In thr UK, 60-65% of the population would support a routinely armed police service. In the US, such polls don't exist, but 75% would support their local police department policies, which, de facto, includes routine arming of police officers.

There is a paradox. People want the police to be armed, because they protect us, even at the risk of crossfire. But those same people , in non-capital punishment countries, are repelled by the idea of the death penalty, usually citing concerns about injustice. The low injustice rate does show that the death penalty does remove murderers from ever offending again. Now its another question whether the police are capable of catching the murderers. it seems they are not.

I would submit we are opposed because we are lily livered. And that those who are supportive, but oppose public punishment, or oppose methods such as hanging, strangulation, garroting, shooting squad, stoning, beheading, quartering, jcb crane swings, lingchi are hypocrites. The ancient Chinese had really mastered some great techniques:

Roasting beam

Disembowling

Mincing to death

Cutting in two

Strangulation

Tearing apart by carts (think truckfest)

Chiseling open the head

Boiling

Death by a 1000 cuts

Beating to death in a sack

Burning

"Hitting the Brain"

Skinning

Drowning

Burying

Curiously, hanging never occurred to them.

The objection to gassing or lethal injection is that you are asking people in the life sciences industry to develop means of death. That means you really are involving innocent beings; in order to determine lethal doses, you need to experiement on animals, likely primates closely related to us. And when you manufacture these substances, you have to ensure they maintain lethality, which includes QC checks, that might involve further innocent animals being tested. A rope and drop is far easier to test. The substances used for lethal injection are produced by companies that manufacture medicines.

14 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

These offenders need counselling,I don't like to see anyone punished as such

Last year I was brutally attacked in Lopburi in Thailand after trying to take a picture and sitting next to the offender where I received a sharp fast slap on the back of my head resulting in long lasting PTSD

The detective who later that night came to my motel room asked me what I wanted to do when they caught the offender

I immediately said some type of counselling

It was a monkey that slapped you right?

It was all over the news,horrible crime!

I bet most of the"kill them" brigade are also pro life and "good christians"

How to punish scammers who have taken some ones life savings?

The US is the country that has the most people per capita in jail?

Just wonder why that is?

45 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Not just murder, but 1st degree, no other option. Rape (not statutory), or ANY pedophilia, kidnapping/human trafficking, and the death penalty, definitely on the table, with mandatory life as minimum sentence, NO parole.

Some people just don't deserve to walk among us.

What about people who carry out financial crime that leads to deaths. For instance, someone stealing life savings, resulting in suicide. Or someone who skimps on safety checks, to make more money, resulting in deaths. You call for the death penalty for human trafficking, which on the face of it doesn't seek to kill, but let off the scammers.

Why are you letting off drug dealers? They cause deaths. How about people who sell illegal firearms. Why offer a life sentence, thats just a drag on the taxpayer. Kill them, and be done with it. Not only that, genuine lifers, who have no incentive to be released, also have no incentive to behave, so cost more per year than the average convict. And then when they get old, you give them free healthcare. I don't want to pay for them. But if you support that, then its you who should be paying for that, not me.

You can't have both the death penalty and life/no parole. Makes no sense. You can have either or.

1 hour ago, Harrisfan said:

Ok then lefties as well.

You will kill someone for being a "lefty".

Signed

A member of the Conservative and Union Party

I'd be happy to see people with great responsibility who are guilty of treason (e.g. attempted coup) be put before a firing squad.

6 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

What about people who carry out financial crime that leads to deaths. For instance, someone stealing life savings, resulting in suicide. Or someone who skimps on safety checks, to make more money, resulting in deaths. You call for the death penalty for human trafficking, which on the face of it doesn't seek to kill, but let off the scammers.

Why are you letting off drug dealers? They cause deaths. How about people who sell illegal firearms. Why offer a life sentence, thats just a drag on the taxpayer. Kill them, and be done with it. Not only that, genuine lifers, who have no incentive to be released, also have no incentive to behave, so cost more per year than the average convict. And then when they get old, you give them free healthcare. I don't want to pay for them. But if you support that, then its you who should be paying for that, not me.

You can't have both the death penalty and life/no parole. Makes no sense. You can have either or.

'what ifs' ... well your first is silly enough. Suicide sounds like a personal problem, not a crime.

I'd like to do away with prisons, and just have a penal colony, island, and drop felony criminals off, then they have to fend for themselves. Way out in middle of nowhere, with drone security, so nobody can approach the island. They live, they die, they kill each other, who cares, just away from society works. Live or die, with their choice of criminality.

1 hour ago, Harrisfan said:

We have dna now

Some of the tests used in court have a 1 in 5 million chance of being identical. Which means right now, there are 1659 people walking around who look, genetically, in a police test, just like you. And one of them is an Axe murderer. But the issue often with DNA tests is sensitivity, making them more prone to contamination. DNA cannot be used to convict, its supporting evidence, and it really only moves the needle a little bit for most crime. Its only used in 1% of cases. DNA was only used in 17% of US Death Row exonerations.

The injustice line is a red herring. If you support the death penalty, then you support the risk of injustice.

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

'what ifs' ... well your first is silly enough. Suicide sounds like a personal problem, not a crime.

I'd like to do away with prisons, and just have a penal colony, island, and drop felony criminals off, then they have to fend for themselves. Way out in middle of nowhere, with drone security, so nobody can approach the island. They live, they die, they kill each other, who cares, just away from society works. Live or die, with their choice of criminality.

Good of you to mock people who burnt to death in a Ford Pinto. Mocking suicide as well.

You never counted on Snake Bliskin.

2 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

Oh we need to abolish this abhorrent practise, the same with police having guns in the USA !

Nothing beats watching Euro cops walking around with submachine guns. If they did that in the U.S, people would be up in arms figuratively

7 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Nothing beats watching Euro cops walking around with submachine guns. If they did that in the U.S, people would be up in arms figuratively

Europe cops ? Europe is not one country !

There are

44 countries in Europeaccording to the United Nations. While most European police carry handguns, many have patrol officers equipped with or having immediate access to submachine guns or automatic rifles (often described as machine guns by the public) for security, including in Germany, France, Italy, and Switzerland

22 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

I'd be happy to see people with great responsibility who are guilty of treason (e.g. attempted coup) be put before a firing squad.

Ah, so you support Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden facing a firing squad. I would also say Kamala Harris but I don't support killing mentally challenged people.