Some, not all, of my Israeli friends and Jews overseas have argued Israel is not a theocracy. I posit that a de facto religious state is a theocracy.

Of a population of almost ten million, 74% are Jewish. All senior govt is Jewish as is the Knesset. The Right of Return applies only to Jews.

Only Jews are conscripted to fight in the IDF. There are 200 conscientious objectors imprisoned and hundreds of refusenik reservists.

Israel faces the same brainwashing as the US. Neither IDF soldiers not the US National Guard refuse to obey illegal orders.

Israel’s constitution guarantees freedom of religion and conscience. Of course that does not apply to refuseniks. There is no provision in the conscription law to protect conscientious objectors. Rights of access to holy sites is protected by law, except for Muslims who are largely confined in the West Bank and Gaza.

How does Israel differ from Iran? Iran bills itself as the Islamic Republic of Iran so religion in front and centre with their name.

Shia Islam is the official state religion. Zoroastrians, Jews and Christians have freedom to worship under the constitution as long as they do not proselytise.

Baha’i and Sufis, which grew from Islam, Yarsanis, a Kurdish minority, and Sunni Muslims have been persecuted and Sharia law is practiced in some locales.

Israel not only persecutes and restricts movement of Palestinian Muslims, preventing access to some holy sites but actively massacres them.

What is a theocracy, if not defined in these two countries?

Garbage.

Majority Jewish PEOPLE yes.

No requirement to practice Judaism whatsover by Jewish people or others.

What's your motivation to keep spreading such inflammatory idiocy about Israel? I suspect ill intent.

Do your Jewish "friends" know that you do this?

With "friends" like that, who needs enemies?

Such a theocracy!

Of course it's fine to strongly oppose the actions and policies of the Israeli government. They deserve that. But really there is no need to make up LIES to support your extremist anti-Israel case. There is enough real stuff without needing to do that.

What is the point of this topic?

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Garbage.

Majority Jewish PEOPLE yes.

No requirement to practice Judaism whatsover by Jewish people or others.

What's your motivation to keep spreading such inflammatory idiocy about Israel? I suspect ill intent.

Do your Jewish "friends" know that you do this?

With "friends" like that, who needs enemies?

Such a theocracy!Of course it's fine to strongly oppose the actions and policies of the Israeli government. They deserve that. But really there is no need to make up LIES to support your extremist anti-Israel case. There is enough real stuff without needing to do that.

No lies above. My extremist case is only anti-IDF and the Islraelu govt's warmongering.

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

your Jewish "friends" know that you do this?

He's probably more of a "secret double agent" than a "friend".

3 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

What is the point of this topic?

A chance for vile anti-semites to spew their moronic drool.

14 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

A chance for vile anti-semites to spew their moronic drool.

For once we seem to agree!

3 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

For once we seem to agree!

For once you are right

4 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

What is the point of this topic?

Holy crap, I agree with you, and don't understand the point. Especially since the OP doesn't even know what a 'theocracy' is.

OP might want to google unknown words before using them.

8 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Israel not only persecutes and restricts movement of Palestinian Muslims, preventing access to some holy sites

I believe that the only holy site that doesn't allow non believers to enter is Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia .

Some Palestinians are not Israeli citizens , so they need to get visas to visit holy sites in Israel

4 hours ago, save the frogs said:

He's probably more of a "secret double agent" than a "friend".

Quite the compliment! I didn't know 007 was 75.

Of course, my Jewish friends know what I do. In many cases, I send them my longer postings for vetting to make sure I've got it right.

So, I don't know what a theocracy is? Check the examples above and observe how both countries have breached their constitutions.

Do I blame both govts? Absolutely. Does that make me an antisemite because both countries have Semitic heritage? Bull<deleted>...

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I believe that the only holy site that doesn't allow non believers to enter is Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia .

Some Palestinians are not Israeli citizens , so they need to get visas to visit holy sites in Israel

Living in Palestine and not Israeli citizens. WTF, that certainly seems like a human rights violation, making them stateless persons!

As of February 2026, Israeli authorities have restricted Palestinian access to the

Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in occupied East Jerusalem for Ramadan, with hundreds blocked from attending first Friday prayers. Restrictions in recent years have targeted Palestinian Muslims under 55, often preventing the vast majority from entering the holy site during the month. 

Key Details on Restrictions:

• Location: The restrictions are focused at checkpoints leading into the Old City and at the gates of the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound (Haram al-Sharif) in East Jerusalem.

• Targeted Groups: In 2024 and 2026, entry was frequently limited to older residents, preventing many Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza from participating in prayers.

• Incidents: Reports indicate police have raided the compound during, or just before, early Ramadan, detaining staff and restricting access during crucial prayer times.

• Context: These measures are part of broader, long-standing, and intensified efforts by Israeli security forces to control access to the Temple Mount/Al-Aqsa area.

1 minute ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Living in Palestine and not Israeli citizens. WTF, that certainly seems like a human rights violation, making them stateless persons!

As of February 2026, Israeli authorities have restricted Palestinian access to the

Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in occupied East Jerusalem for Ramadan, with hundreds blocked from attending first Friday prayers. Restrictions in recent years have targeted Palestinian Muslims under 55, often preventing the vast majority from entering the holy site during the month. 

Key Details on Restrictions:

• Location: The restrictions are focused at checkpoints leading into the Old City and at the gates of the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound (Haram al-Sharif) in East Jerusalem.

• Targeted Groups: In 2024 and 2026, entry was frequently limited to older residents, preventing many Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza from participating in prayers.

• Incidents: Reports indicate police have raided the compound during, or just before, early Ramadan, detaining staff and restricting access during crucial prayer times.

• Context: These measures are part of broader, long-standing, and intensified efforts by Israeli security forces to control access to the Temple Mount/Al-Aqsa area.

There is a war going on .

Travel restrictions are in place in volatile areas

Read up on the situation .

The Palestinians do not want Israel citizenship, they rejected it

8 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Some, not all, of my Israeli friends and Jews overseas have argued Israel is not a theocracy. they do not proselytise.

More like : Someone in another thread stated that Israel isn't a theocracy and instead of replying to him there , you thought that you'd start a new thread about it .

The post replying to you, which you didn't reply to, but started a new thread .

"attempting to put Israel in the same category as Iran .

Fails though because Israel isnt a theocracy"

8 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

More like : Someone in another thread stated that Israel isn't a theocracy and instead of replying to him there , you thought that you'd start a new thread about it .

The post replying to you, which you didn't reply to, but started a new thread .

"attempting to put Israel in the same category as Iran .

Fails though because Israel isnt a theocracy"

As usual, no link. Didn't see it, search not productive. Link. I'd like to read it.

Why don't you start a topic, Nick, as you're so outspoken on the issue?

4 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

How does Israel differ from Iran?

...

What is a theocracy, if not defined in these two countries?

@unblocktheplanet To answer your questions in short form:

1) Israel is a parliamentary democracy ruled by elected officials, while Iran is ruled by non-elected religious figures.

2) A theocracy is a government ruled by religious figures. The system of government in a theocracy is based on divinely inspired and revealed religious law, which is deemed superior to secular law.

Some would say that today only Iran and Vatican City are theocracies in theory and practice, while many would include Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Mauritania and Yemen as theocracies because their governmental and legal systems are based on Islamic Sharia law.

https://www.worldatlas.com/government/countries-with-a-theocratic-government-today.html

And here's a lengthier explanation in case you want to argue the details:

The State of Israel is "Jewish and democratic," not a theocracy. Israel is a parliamentary democracy, with an elected unicameral parliament as its legislature; a cabinet headed by the Prime Minister as the executive branch; and an independent judiciary. Israel has no official state religion but since it is the homeland of the world's jews, Judaism does have a favored position.

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel, headed by two Chief Rabbis, has legal authority over certain aspects of the personal lives of Jewish citizens, such as marriage, divorce, conversion and kosher food. The rulings a=of the Chief Rabbinate are based on traditional Jewish religious law, but only affect Jews.

All Israeli citizens, regardless of faith, enjoy freedom of conscience and religion.

Israel doesn't have a written constitution, but it's governmental structure is provided by 14 Basic Laws, all of which are "man-made" and none of which depend on religious texts or divine inspiration as their source.

The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran of 1979 defines the country as a Islamist theocratic state, with a non-elected Supreme Leader as the ultimate authority. Islamic jurists or clergy control or oversee all levels of government. The Iranian form of government is called the Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist and has its source in the beliefs of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the first Supreme Leader of Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardianship_of_the_Islamic_Jurist#cite_note-VeF-Encyclo.com-2

The Iranian Constitution specifically states the "plan of government" of Iran is based on Khomeini's ideas. It also declares: "The direction of [public] affairs is in the hands of those who are learned concerning God and are trustworthy in matters pertaining to what He permits and forbids. ... Such leadership will prevent any deviation by the various organs of State from their essential Islamic duties."

https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Iran_1989.pdf?lang=en

That's a theocracy; Israel isn't.

1 hour ago, unblocktheplanet said:

As usual, no link. Didn't see it, search not productive. Link. I'd like to read it.

Why don't you start a topic, Nick, as you're so outspoken on the issue?

Heres the link .

As I replied to you , it would have shown up in your notifications

https://aseannow.com/topic/1387977-why-dont-jews-love-jesus-mommy/page/6/

Confusing post. Ethno-supremacy is a more appropriate term than theocracy. It’s fair to think they’ve combined Jewish ethnicity with Jewish religion to boost the Zionist plans of the greater Israel. USA ambassador confirmed it the other day.

of course, this country is a theocracy. it's obvious, but the press will never mention that. Notice the dissenting posts won't debate this point. Instead they will attack the op.

7 minutes ago, 1tooth said:

of course, this country is a theocracy. it's obvious, but the press will never mention that. Notice the dissenting posts won't debate this point. Instead they will attack the op.

Israel obviously is NOT a theocracy.

10 minutes ago, 1tooth said:

of course, this country is a theocracy. it's obvious, but the press will never mention that. Notice the dissenting posts won't debate this point. Instead they will attack the op.

In a formal academic debate, there are two sides: the affirmative (pro) and negative (con). In this case, the topic of the debate would be: Resolved: The State of Israel is a Theocracy. The whole purpose of a debate is for each side to "attack" (challenge if you prefer) and refute the other's positions.

In my earlier post, I presented several arguments backed up by evidence to refute the proposition Israel is a theocracy. I attacked the points the OP made as the affirmative. I did not attack the OP.

There are theocratic ASPECTS of Israeli law such as the law that defines "who is a Jew" for purposes of the law of return immigration law. Italy has laws for "who is Italian" for their migration by ancestry laws as do countless other nations. Watch the national anthem of Colombia which is aggressively Christian, yet Colombia is not a theocracy either. Look at all the flags with crosses or Muslim symbols yet in reality there are only a very few actual theorcratic nations in the world (all Islam except for the Vatican). To conclude, nations having some aspects of religious and or ethnic influence are not at all rare, yet only having some aspects does NOT make a nation a theocracy.

7 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

@unblocktheplanet To answer your questions in short form:

1) Israel is a parliamentary democracy ruled by elected officials, while Iran is ruled by non-elected religious figures.

2) A theocracy is a government ruled by religious figures. The system of government in a theocracy is based on divinely inspired and revealed religious law, which is deemed superior to secular law.

Some would say that today only Iran and Vatican City are theocracies in theory and practice, while many would include Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Mauritania and Yemen as theocracies because their governmental and legal systems are based on Islamic Sharia law.

https://www.worldatlas.com/government/countries-with-a-theocratic-government-today.html

And here's a lengthier explanation in case you want to argue the details:

The State of Israel is "Jewish and democratic," not a theocracy. Israel is a parliamentary democracy, with an elected unicameral parliament as its legislature; a cabinet headed by the Prime Minister as the executive branch; and an independent judiciary. Israel has no official state religion but since it is the homeland of the world's jews, Judaism does have a favored position.

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel, headed by two Chief Rabbis, has legal authority over certain aspects of the personal lives of Jewish citizens, such as marriage, divorce, conversion and kosher food. The rulings a=of the Chief Rabbinate are based on traditional Jewish religious law, but only affect Jews.

All Israeli citizens, regardless of faith, enjoy freedom of conscience and religion.

Israel doesn't have a written constitution, but it's governmental structure is provided by 14 Basic Laws, all of which are "man-made" and none of which depend on religious texts or divine inspiration as their source.

The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran of 1979 defines the country as a Islamist theocratic state, with a non-elected Supreme Leader as the ultimate authority. Islamic jurists or clergy control or oversee all levels of government. The Iranian form of government is called the Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist and has its source in the beliefs of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the first Supreme Leader of Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardianship_of_the_Islamic_Jurist#cite_note-VeF-Encyclo.com-2

The Iranian Constitution specifically states the "plan of government" of Iran is based on Khomeini's ideas. It also declares: "The direction of [public] affairs is in the hands of those who are learned concerning God and are trustworthy in matters pertaining to what He permits and forbids. ... Such leadership will prevent any deviation by the various organs of State from their essential Islamic duties."

https://www.constituteproject.org/constitution/Iran_1989.pdf?lang=en

That's a theocracy; Israel isn't.

Ev, I agree that Iranian elections may not be as free and fair as Israel’s.

How much influence does the Rabbinate have on govt? Does the Rabbinate operate from its own rules, independent of govt? How much influence does the Rabbinate have on govt.

Crucially, does the IDF have the unconditional support of the Rabbinate?

It sounds like the Rabbinate has great control over Jewish lives. Those lives constitute the overwhelming majority of citizenry.

“Democracy” is quicksand, hard to hold in the hand, in most countries.

“Independent judiciary”—by whose powers, then, are all those Palestinians imprisoned, sometimes for years without charge?

Mandated by the Basic Laws, “freedom of conscience”…except for conscientious objectors to conscription and refuseniks in the IDF.

Are elections in Iran “free and fair”? Dunno, but there are 290 assemblymen (women?) elected by ‘popular vote’. Some seats are “reserved for religious minorities”.

Is election to the Knesset irrespective of religious affiliation?

I won’y use those knee-jerk tropes that people feel are antisemitic. But is there not an element of divine right to Israel’s place in the world and particularly the conduct of its IDF?

I still see the most hopeful outcome to be a two-state solution, which has to include the dismantling & banishment of Hamas and a return to the more moderate PA (?). Surrender of weapons would be smart, too.

But a crucial part of this is good faith from Israel. Meaning, eviction of the settlers. There has been horrifying violence there while police or soldiers stand idle rather than protecting Palestinians. Israel has enough land. It doesn’t need the West Bank.

The Palestinian refugees I have met with here in Bangkok are stateless. They were given temporary travel documents to get to Bangkok and await resettlement in third countries.

Israel must address the issue of statelessness. They live in Israel, if not a second state, then an Israeli autonomous, self-governing territory meaning an Israeli passport or some sort of UN refugee passport.

Sorry, I’ve deviated from the subject!

I am not asking any of this in an aggressive way or with any agenda, hidden or otherwise. I’m genuinely interested for a broader understanding.

8 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Ev, I agree that Iranian elections may not be as free and fair as Israel’s.

How much influence does the Rabbinate have on govt? Does the Rabbinate operate from its own rules, independent of govt? How much influence does the Rabbinate have on govt.

Crucially, does the IDF have the unconditional support of the Rabbinate?

It sounds like the Rabbinate has great control over Jewish lives. Those lives constitute the overwhelming majority of citizenry.

“Democracy” is quicksand, hard to hold in the hand, in most countries.

“Independent judiciary”—by whose powers, then, are all those Palestinians imprisoned, sometimes for years without charge?

Mandated by the Basic Laws, “freedom of conscience”…except for conscientious objectors to conscription and refuseniks in the IDF.

Are elections in Iran “free and fair”? Dunno, but there are 290 assemblymen (women?) elected by ‘popular vote’. Some seats are “reserved for religious minorities”.

Is election to the Knesset irrespective of religious affiliation?

I won’y use those knee-jerk tropes that people feel are antisemitic. But is there not an element of divine right to Israel’s place in the world and particularly the conduct of its IDF?

I still see the most hopeful outcome to be a two-state solution, which has to include the dismantling & banishment of Hamas and a return to the more moderate PA (?). Surrender of weapons would be smart, too.

But a crucial part of this is good faith from Israel. Meaning, eviction of the settlers. There has been horrifying violence there while police or soldiers stand idle rather than protecting Palestinians. Israel has enough land. It doesn’t need the West Bank.

The Palestinian refugees I have met with here in Bangkok are stateless. They were given temporary travel documents to get to Bangkok and await resettlement in third countries.

Israel must address the issue of statelessness. They live in Israel, if not a second state, then an Israeli autonomous, self-governing territory meaning an Israeli passport or some sort of UN refugee passport.

Sorry, I’ve deviated from the subject!

I am not asking any of this in an aggressive way or with any agenda, hidden or otherwise. I’m genuinely interested for a broader understanding.

Another Tucker Carlson style "only asking (dumb inflammatory) questions" low value low information attack on Israel trying to paint it as a theocracy when it is not. The obsession of Israel demonizers rivals that of religious fanatics.

The Blogs: Tucker Carlson isn't 'just asking questions' | Aidan Segal | The Times of Israel

www.blogs.timesofisrael.com/tucker-carlson-isnt-just-asking-questions/

On 2/25/2026 at 3:15 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

Some, not all, of my Israeli friends and Jews overseas have argued Israel is not a theocracy. I posit that a de facto religious state is a theocracy.

On 2/25/2026 at 3:15 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

The Right of Return applies only to Jews.

Israel is not a theocracy. It's an apartheid state, and the ICJ has confirmed this.

On 2/25/2026 at 3:15 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

Neither IDF soldiers not the US National Guard refuse to obey illegal orders.

The cases involving US National Guard (and ICE) may be the result of poor training.

On 2/25/2026 at 3:15 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

Israel’s constitution guarantees freedom of religion and conscience.

While this was promised in the aspirational "Declaration of Independence", this document promised that a constituion would be enacted by October 1948, but it hasn't happened yet. The promised terms also included equal rights for all, but this is a contradiction to the ongoing apartheid laws and practices.

On 2/25/2026 at 3:15 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

Rights of access to holy sites is protected by law, except for Muslims who are largely confined in the West Bank and Gaza.

17 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

17 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

I believe that the only holy site that doesn't allow non believers to enter is Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia .

Some Palestinians are not Israeli citizens , so they need to get visas to visit holy sites in Israel

Israel restricts access to the Haram al-Sharif a/k/a Temple Mount to many Palestinians from the West Bank. True, they are not Israeli citizens despite being under Zionist control since 1967, the reason being that then they would presumably have the right to vote in elections.

Since long before the Islamic Republic of Iran, non-Muslims cannot enter the holiest part of the Imam Reza Shrine in Mashhad.

17 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Living in Palestine and not Israeli citizens. WTF, that certainly seems like a human rights violation, making them stateless persons!

As of February 2026, Israeli authorities have restricted Palestinian access to the

Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in occupied East Jerusalem for Ramadan, with hundreds blocked from attending first Friday prayers. Restrictions in recent years have targeted Palestinian Muslims under 55, often preventing the vast majority from entering the holy site during the month. 

Key Details on Restrictions:

• Location: The restrictions are focused at checkpoints leading into the Old City and at the gates of the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound (Haram al-Sharif) in East Jerusalem.

• Targeted Groups: In 2024 and 2026, entry was frequently limited to older residents, preventing many Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza from participating in prayers.

• Incidents: Reports indicate police have raided the compound during, or just before, early Ramadan, detaining staff and restricting access during crucial prayer times.

• Context: These measures are part of broader, long-standing, and intensified efforts by Israeli security forces to control access to the Temple Mount/Al-Aqsa area.

There were incidents before October 23 when Israeli police invaded the al Aqsa Mosque building in the Haram al-Sharif. They beat people with their batons. This was incredibly shocking to me, and no doubt to Muslims.

17 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

There is a war going on .

Travel restrictions are in place in volatile areas

Read up on the situation .

The Palestinians do not want Israel citizenship, they rejected it

These restrictions were in effect long before Oct 23, but of course when the Smotrich & Ben Gvir got in power, the situation really deteriorated.

11 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

The State of Israel is "Jewish and democratic,"

Israel is an apartheid state. The apartheid situation in Israel itself is less onerous than in the Occupied Territories, but Israeli Palestinians don't enjoy equal rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid

11 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

The Chief Rabbinate of Israel, headed by two Chief Rabbis, has legal authority over certain aspects of the personal lives of Jewish citizens, such as marriage, divorce, conversion and kosher food.

The problem is that non-observant Jews evidently cannot opt out of a religious edict, a Jewish analogue of Sharia law, when they want to change marriage status.

4 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

But is there not an element of divine right to Israel’s place in the world and particularly the conduct of its IDF?

You are getting to the heart of the impunity with which IDF and settlers are committing genocide to this day, not to mention the crimes of the last 100 years in a throwback of 19th C colonialsm.