Have You Ever Mistaken A Man For A Woman?

[rainman]

Only once I have seriously believed someone to be a woman. Not too tall, soft female voice, great body, real female hands, etc. A friend told me she was a LB, I didn't believe it. Even when I spoke to her, I didn't believe it. Until she pulled out her ID card and showed me. I didn't "investigate" in any detail, but I'm still not sure if she didn't just pull out her brother's or boyfriend's ID card to pull a joke on me. If she really was a LB, she could have fooled anyone. No joke.

[Heng]

One of my friends owns a few shophouses on Walking Street, mostly rented out as bars, tailor shops, this and that. One of these above the shops, they use it as an office and apartment that we hang out at sometimes, great place to people watch and have a drink, kind of a Bourbon St. type feel... anyhoo, IMO either an awful lot of tourists/long stay foreigners are either trying something new, have those preferences to begin with, or simply can't tell if a gal began her life as a man or not.

IMO, on the whole the odds are still in your favor as most fit the general "I can tell because..." type 'tells', leaving a fairly small percentage that would be able to "fool" a local, a slightly higher percentage being able to fool a Southern or Eastern Asian tourist, then then probably higher percentage with those who didn't grow up around Asians. It's to be expected when you are out of your element. Asians I know have a hard time picking out which falang gals are really just working girls when they visit Vegas. It's easy to spot the sorority girl or San Fernando Valley porn actress when you're familiar with those things, but not when you don't have any background to screen them out by.

[Naam]

Update/corrections

There are some operations that relocate the male glands (tip of dick) inside the new vagina to immitate the female glands.

sorry to correct you. no such thing like relocating male glands into ladies' bodies. you are mixing up "glans" with "glands".

[Heng]

p.s. This was actually a topic on Kh. Soruyuth's morning newswrap just a week or so ago: if it's not already passed, I don't think these 'gals' are far off from being able to legally use 'nang sao' on their ID cards IF they have legally completed gender reassignment surgery

[banchang]

Just think how some of the girls feel when they are mistaken for ladyboys. I can think of a few on the Ban Chang strip that wouldn't be out of place on the England front row.

[Neeranam]

p.s. This was actually a topic on Kh. Soruyuth's morning newswrap just a week or so ago: if it's not already passed, I don't think these 'gals' are far off from being able to legally use 'nang sao' on their ID cards IF they have legally completed gender reassignment surgery

That would confuse things.

[AlexLah]

Hi OP,

I am not sure why you ask this question.

The LB in Thailand who have surgery or not are wonderfull people.

They try to express who they feel they are (Most of them).

Yes I know a lot of them and they are very nice people.

It is not about what you love but who you love.

Many people want to go with LB, post or pre op what is wrong with that?

It is all consensual.

Have I ever been with, yes and I enjoyed the moment.

Just have an open mind.

Alex

[technocracy]

Nope. I have become a very good spotter though - since my wife has numerous katoey friends and the is even one in the extended family.

The most convincing I've met here was in Savannahket - had the adams apple removed whoever had the knuckles and toes gave her away . . . bigger than mine!

But I've seen many men get off with my wifes friends at the nightclubs here who seem completely oblivious that the she he has his arm around is a he .. ..

Being a gentleman, I've never told any of them . . after all hey it's their choice and she is the friend not the bloke.

I've also heard conversation between the gay and katoey about there hiding their member skills . . containing more details than I really needed to know! :D

Edited October 31, 2007 by technocracy

[AlexLah]

Nope. I have become a very good spotter though - since my wife has numerous katoey friends and the is even one in the extended family.

The most convincing I've met here was in Savannahket - had the adams apple removed whoever had the knuckles and toes gave her away . . . bigger than mine!

But I've seen many men get off with my wifes friends at the nightclubs here who seem completely oblivious that the she he has his arm around is a he .. ..

Being a gentleman, I've never told any of them . . after all hey it's their choice and she is the friend not the bloke.

I've also heard conversation between the gay and katoey about there hiding their member skills . . containing more details than I really needed to know! :D

So you not accept those that had the full operation to becom a women?

Have you ever talked with them?

[jayjayjayjay]

Not all the guests at the Malaysia Hotel are gay.....and their restaurant is kind of in view of the pool...

In 1989 the Malaysia was pretty much straight!

[Naam]

The LB in Thailand who have surgery or not are wonderfull people.

that's for sure! especially the ladyboys who approach people on Pattaya Beach Road at 02.00hrs in the night. a number of them are quite often depicted in the local media as being most wonderful (in their skills to steal from unsuspecting tourist suckers).

[Prakanong]

When I first came to Thailand it seemed to me that it was Germans then Italians who were the biggest aficianado's of LB's

That demographic seems to have changed in the last few years though and I see more English guy's now than anything else - usually very manly English guys at that

I suppose some think about that if they see me out drinking with a LB - I do have the shaved head and broken nose look ;-)

[jaiyenyen]

A friend of mine has a very beautiful LB working for him behind his bar, she speaks good English and is great fun to talk to.

However, my girlfriend has one who is very unconvincing working in her salon, everytime I see her I just think "Bloke in frock"

[PeaceBlondie]

I spent half an hour outside a cabaret last week, talking with a ladyboy who designs costumes for the shows. She's over 30 and gorgeous, perfectly dressed to dance in the show, the right makeup, the right moves. I didn't look at her adam's apple, but she had quite a rack and her hair was long and beautiful. Our discussion was based on her being a lady with a Japanese boyfriend, me being a gay farang who likes men. She's a successful businesswoman, owning shophouses, etc. Her voice gives her away if you're trying to figure it out, but some women have low voices.

[farang prince]

When I first came to Thailand it seemed to me that it was Germans then Italians who were the biggest aficianado's of LB's

That demographic seems to have changed in the last few years though and I see more English guy's now than anything else - usually very manly English guys at that

I suppose some think about that if they see me out drinking with a LB - I do have the shaved head and broken nose look ;-)

Most people don't look beyond the surface when the see a ladyboy in Thailand. It might surprise them to know that a very small percentage of Thai ladyboys are in the...erm..."service" trade. Most live pretty normal lives in Thailand, with careers ranging from college presidents to clerks at 7-11. Thais historically view ladyboys as the "Third Sex" and there is a general acceptance of ladyboys within Thai society.

For those of you who have previously posted about being "fooled" by ladyboys, well that can be understandable. Thai ladyboys go to great lengths to look as feminine as possible. Most of them have viewed themselves as women since their early teens, sometimes even earlier. The dream of most of them is to get transgender surgery so they can achieve their goal of wiping out any vestiges of their manhood. This surgery is expensive and ranges from $6,000 USD to $10,000 USD if they plan to shave their larnyx, tighten their vocal cords or have other forms of plastic surgery. Not surprisingly, Thailand has a very successful transgendered surgical industry, primarily located in Pataya.

The irony of the life of a ladyboy is that they are rejected by most straight men and virtually all gay men (who are only attracted to the male body). Which leaves a very narrow field to play in. Most men who are with ladyboys are bisexual or straight men. Sadly, it is rare that their relationships with straight Thai men last very long...usually because Thai social pressures draw them back into heterosexual relationships so they can build a family. At the age of 30, many Thai ladyboys are on their own and beginning to view themselves as very "old" people.

The typical Thai ladyboy is not attracted to Farangs or Thais. Rather, they are seeking a partner who will accept them for how they are. In return for this total acceptance by their partner, most ladyboys will be very devoted and loving partners.

Many people view ladyboys only from a sexual perspective. This is most unfortunate because ladyboys, by their very nature, are highly complex individuals and sex is usually not a "raison d'etre" for them. It is a way of keeping their partners happy and satisfied, but few ladyboys actually can achieve orgasm in normal sexual activity, especially if they have been fully transgendered. For those of you who have only seen ladyboys in porn clips, you will be very disappointed if you are seeking only a sexual relationship.

As some of you know, I'm in a relationship with a Thai ladyboy. I wasn't planning on being in a long-term relationship with a ladyboy. I'd never been in one before. We met at a cabaret show in Bangkok in which she was one of the performers and things moved on from there. After more than five years together, I can tell you that we have been able to successfully overcome many of the problems that plague similar relationships between Farangs and Thais...primarily language and cultural issues.

First and foremost, ladyboys are human beings. Some of you cynics will probably just write them off as psychologically screwed up people. You are welcome to your opinion. In my experience, most ladyboys are very emotionally vulnerable, but also highly intelligent, and are sincerely seeking a secure relationship. If you show them honesty and compassion and provide a secure life for them, you will have a devoted and dedicated partner who will be with you until the end of time.

Edited November 1, 2007 by farang prince

[Prakanong]

You refer to an important point - most LB's do not indeed work in the "service trade" just like most thai girls do not.

I used to know a girl whose brother was a full time trade union rep who was a LB.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Although I don't know of anyone who will admit they got all the way to their room.

I did. No dramas, though.

[kmart]

When I first came to Thailand it seemed to me that it was Germans then Italians who were the biggest aficianado's of LB's

That demographic seems to have changed in the last few years though and I see more English guy's now than anything else - usually very manly English guys at that

I suppose some think about that if they see me out drinking with a LB - I do have the shaved head and broken nose look ;-)

Most people don't look beyond the surface when the see a ladyboy in Thailand. It might surprise them to know that a very small percentage of Thai ladyboys are in the...erm..."service" trade. Most live pretty normal lives in Thailand, with careers ranging from college presidents to clerks at 7-11. Thais historically view ladyboys as the "Third Sex" and there is a general acceptance of ladyboys within Thai society.

For those of you who have previously posted about being "fooled" by ladyboys, well that can be understandable. Thai ladyboys go to great lengths to look as feminine as possible. Most of them have viewed themselves as women since their early teens, sometimes even earlier. The dream of most of them is to get transgender surgery so they can achieve their goal of wiping out any vestiges of their manhood. This surgery is expensive and ranges from $6,000 USD to $10,000 USD if they plan to shave their larnyx, tighten their vocal cords or have other forms of plastic surgery. Not surprisingly, Thailand has a very successful transgendered surgical industry, primarily located in Pataya.

The irony of the life of a ladyboy is that they are rejected by most straight men and virtually all gay men (who are only attracted to the male body). Which leaves a very narrow field to play in. Most men who are with ladyboys are bisexual or straight men. Sadly, it is rare that their relationships with straight Thai men last very long...usually because Thai social pressures draw them back into heterosexual relationships so they can build a family. At the age of 30, many Thai ladyboys are on their own and beginning to view themselves as very "old" people.

The typical Thai ladyboy is not attracted to Farangs or Thais. Rather, they are seeking a partner who will accept them for how they are. In return for this total acceptance by their partner, most ladyboys will be very devoted and loving partners.

Many people view ladyboys only from a sexual perspective. This is most unfortunate because ladyboys, by their very nature, are highly complex individuals and sex is usually not a "raison d'etre" for them. It is a way of keeping their partners happy and satisfied, but few ladyboys actually can achieve orgasm in normal sexual activity, especially if they have been fully transgendered. For those of you who have only seen ladyboys in porn clips, you will be very disappointed if you are seeking only a sexual relationship.

As some of you know, I'm in a relationship with a Thai ladyboy. I wasn't planning on being in a long-term relationship with a ladyboy. I'd never been in one before. We met at a cabaret show in Bangkok in which she was one of the performers and things moved on from there. After more than five years together, I can tell you that we have been able to successfully overcome many of the problems that plague similar relationships between Farangs and Thais...primarily language and cultural issues.

First and foremost, ladyboys are human beings. Some of you cynics will probably just write them off as psychologically screwed up people. You are welcome to your opinion. In my experience, most ladyboys are very emotionally vulnerable, but also highly intelligent, and are sincerely seeking a secure relationship. If you show them honesty and compassion and provide a secure life for them, you will have a devoted and dedicated partner who will be with you until the end of time.

Good informative post, thanks, farangprince. I always wondered what happened to the lb's after 30+ years of age.

[WaiWai]

Good informative post, thanks, farangprince. I always wondered what happened to the lb's after 30+ years of age.

Yes, it was - and verging on the astounding to read such a post here .

I read/heard that there was *not* general acceptance of ladyboys, and that they were, in practice, excluded from many professions.

[Scott]

Well, when you turn them around, they are all pretty much the same, regardless of your orientation!

[kmart]

Not sure, but does "BambinA" still post on here...?

[farang prince]

Good informative post, thanks, farangprince. I always wondered what happened to the lb's after 30+ years of age.

Yes, it was - and verging on the astounding to read such a post here .

I read/heard that there was *not* general acceptance of ladyboys, and that they were, in practice, excluded from many professions.

WaiWai, I would categorize the "general acceptance" of ladyboys here in Thailand to be more accurately "tolerated." You can tell from facial expressions and body language from many Thais that they don't really accept ladyboys. In fact, they seem to resent them. Ladyboys are very realistic about their situation here in Thailand...but it still is better than the reception ladyboys in Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore receive.

In regards to their exclusion from many professions, obviously they aren't in the military or law enforcement. I think there are very few in the legal profession and I'm trying to remember the last time Thailand had a ladyboy in a high position in government. But I do know several doctors who are ladyboys and they are very successful in their profession. More are involved in the entertainment industry as well as media.

Simply stated, except for those who use their transgendered appearance to make money in the "service industry", most ladyboys have followed the path to transgenderism almost as inexorably as Lemmings go to the sea. Frankly, in my experience you will not see this type of psychological commitment to transgenderism in any other society.

[WaiWai]

Good informative post, thanks, farangprince. I always wondered what happened to the lb's after 30+ years of age.

Yes, it was - and verging on the astounding to read such a post here .

I read/heard that there was *not* general acceptance of ladyboys, and that they were, in practice, excluded from many professions.

WaiWai, I would categorize the "general acceptance" of ladyboys here in Thailand to be more accurately "tolerated." You can tell from facial expressions and body language from many Thais that they don't really accept ladyboys. In fact, they seem to resent them. Ladyboys are very realistic about their situation here in Thailand...but it still is better than the reception ladyboys in Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore receive.

In regards to their exclusion from many professions, obviously they aren't in the military or law enforcement. I think there are very few in the legal profession and I'm trying to remember the last time Thailand had a ladyboy in a high position in government. But I do know several doctors who are ladyboys and they are very successful in their profession. More are involved in the entertainment industry as well as media.

Simply stated, except for those who use their transgendered appearance to make money in the "service industry", most ladyboys have followed the path to transgenderism almost as inexorably as Lemmings go to the sea. Frankly, in my experience you will not see this type of psychological commitment to transgenderism in any other society.

Perhaps India ?

But it's certainly interesting to see the numbers here. Some reaction against the very strongly defined m/f roles (also observable in many young bi-sexuals & gays) or just against an overall highly controlling culture here ? More fluid sense of self ? A tolerant - if not accepting culture and many "role models". All of the above ?

Not wishing to stereotype, but some of the ones I know pine to be air-hostesses, but so do the young women.

Perhaps it is in some way about the Thai way of employing of glittering surfaces to cover harsh realities.

[IMA_FARANG]

Often my old friends ask me if I've ever been fooled by a ladyboy.

I used to be embarrassed to say yes, but now I couldn't care.

Once, in 1995 I was fooled by one I realised I had made a mistake before anything was done

How about you? How far did you go?

Many years ago when I first came to Thailand I nearly made a mistake. What I thought was a she wasn't a she. I was rather drunk at the time, but I was still lucid enough to ask if she was male or female. The answer was, "Does that really matter?". Well,yes, it certainly did. I left as soon as possible. Nothing beyond that happened. It took me a while to spot some differences, and avoid annything that appeared to be questionable.

[howtoescape]

I spotted the most beautiful girl in Pattaya last year and after speaking to her for an hour asking her if she had a bf, how many kids she had etc... i was informed it was a ladyboy, she had been on hormone therapy for many years, i was so tempted.

They done a programme on Sky in the UK last year "Theres something about Miriam" where for 6 weeks 10 hot blooded Brits, vied for the affection of this stunning girl, after 2 or 3 contestants fell in love with her the finally of the show was Miriam flashnig her tackle at them.

The winner was tempted but didnt want his prize at the end

[game4shame]

They done a programme on Sky in the UK last year "Theres something about Miriam" where for 6 weeks 10 hot blooded Brits, vied for the affection of this stunning girl, after 2 or 3 contestants fell in love with her the finally of the show was Miriam flashnig her tackle at them.

The winner was tempted but didnt want his prize at the end

there's something about miriam was hilarious. the guy that won was such an arrogant tosser - the smug grin was wiped off his face when the bombshell was dropped though.

iirc the producers had to pay the contestants substantial compensation to allow the show's release.

miriam:

Edited November 1, 2007 by game4shame

[Chang_paarp]

Many years ago (1985) during my first visit to Thailand I did invite a tall lady with a deepish voice to my room for some entertainment and a game of tiddly winks. Well the hotel security were awake enough to get me to sign a form for a "joiner". When in the morning I went to warn the desk they had a theif working the hotel, no-one could remember what she looked like. Least of all me as I had been given something to help me sleep. I lost a camera and a couple of toys as I had hidden the wallet and passport in an act of paranoia.

That was my closest encounter with a member of the third gender, did not get to inspect the tackle to know if the operation had been done. I do not think that they all as dishonest as the first one I met. I was young and naive, and so should not make that mistake again.

[wadsy]

Never been with one before. But one of my wifes friends is so convincing. You would never know. I mean you would never pick it. She has a good shape and nothing manly about her at all.

Any chance of her mobile # ?

[Rhys]

Somebody... F... a gatoee.....555555

[mrtoad]

They done a programme on Sky in the UK last year "Theres something about Miriam" where for 6 weeks 10 hot blooded Brits, vied for the affection of this stunning girl, after 2 or 3 contestants fell in love with her the finally of the show was Miriam flashnig her tackle at them.

The winner was tempted but didnt want his prize at the end

there's something about miriam was hilarious. the guy that won was such an arrogant tosser - the smug grin was wiped off his face when the bombshell was dropped though.

iirc the producers had to pay the contestants substantial compensation to allow the show's release.

miriam:

I think you should have subsituted the word 'contestants' with the word 'Chavs'. Priceless.