Australian Aged Pension

[David Walden]

1 hour ago, sceadugenga said:

Does this help?

 

https://www.afr.com/personal-finance/how-to-take-money-out-of-your-super-and-claim-the-newstart-allowance-20120214-jzuwo

It sort of does help.  To get your super early 55,56,57 y/o tax free you have to declare you are retired.  After a few months you can change your mind?  go back to work?  If you are receiving New Start then your income and/or asset level threshold is much lower then after 65 y/o.  Following the rule to get this payment will drive you crazy, i.e  you must be looking for work, about 10 interviews a F/N. This stops many from getting New Start. This can work if you don't have a lot super or assets.  Been there done that, didn't have enough assets then to worry me.  There is a drop off point quite low where New Start stops...no sliding scale.

 

And remember no more comments about New Start, DSP, child care rebates etc.  This site is all about AAP (Australian Aged Pension)...5555

Edited June 21, 2018 by David Walden

[ELVIS123456]

3 hours ago, Gregster said:

 

Elvis, even when on the dole, I thought that Centrelink still deems income on your superannuation balance thus potentially reducing your Newstart allowance, yes?

 

Mate - I am here now on Newstart - and I have made several Super withdrawals. Spoke to CLink twice, and both times confirmed this (and got call record ID on 2nd call).

 

But once I am on the pension in a few years, any Super withdrawals (that is the taxable component), are classified as income.  And of course any money in Super is classified as an asset, and that amount is deemed and this is also income - when you are on the Pension - but not when you are on Newstart/DSP etc.

 

[ELVIS123456]

2 hours ago, David Walden said:

It sort of does help.  To get your super early 55,56,57 y/o tax free you have to declare you are retired.  After a few months you can change your mind?  go back to work?  If you are receiving New Start then your income and/or asset level threshold is much lower then after 65 y/o.  Following the rule to get this payment will drive you crazy, i.e  you must be looking for work, about 10 interviews a F/N. This stops many from getting New Start. This can work if you don't have a lot super or assets.  Been there done that, didn't have enough assets then to worry me.  There is a drop off point quite low where New Start stops...no sliding scale.

 

And remember no more comments about New Start, DSP, child care rebates etc.  This site is all about AAP (Australian Aged Pension)...5555

While waiting for the pension, with the plan for immediate portability once obtained, I am getting Newstart (and the Thai wife works part-time).  Once you are over 60 you can withdraw Super at any time - whether working or not (in most Funds) - and it is tax free.  For those under 60 but over 55 they can retire when they hit 'preservation age', but that only applies to some now (maybe none) as the Govt has withdrawn this option for most people (I took it up some years ago before they changed it). 

 

Newstart is easy - the job requirement means 8-20 job applications a month - which are easily done online thru Seek etc. When I first started it was 20 and now it is 8. Those organisations tasked (paid) with 'helping' you get a job understand reality, and they pretty much leave you alone. Once a month they want a phone call 'interview' and every 2 months they want a face2face interview. That takes all of 5 minutes - they know the ropes and are just following the game rules.

 

If anyone can afford to live on Newstart (and pay rent) and top it up with Super/Savings if needed, then I recommend they look at coming back before the pension is due. If you can get a job then even better, but even though I am highly qualified and experienced, there aint nothing in my line of business  available here in this Qld 'retirement town'. If I was a tradie or a medical professional, it would not be a problem. But truth be told, I am happy to just take the Newstart money while waiting for the pension. 

 

Pension Portability is locked in for those here when they first apply under international social security agreements.  It is those that return after they reach Pension entitlement age that the Govt targets, and they will continue to target them going forward. Waiting for two years and all the other crap about being resident and staying permanently etc etc, does not apply if you are living here when you qualify.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by ELVIS123456

[David Walden]

17 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Mate - I am here now on Newstart - and I have made several Super withdrawals. Spoke to CLink twice, and both times confirmed this (and got call record ID on 2nd call).

 

But once I am on the pension in a few years, any Super withdrawals (that is the taxable component), are classified as income.  And of course any money in Super is classified as an asset, and that amount is deemed and this is also income - when you are on the Pension - but not when you are on Newstart/DSP etc.

 

As far as I know super is not counted as an asset when on New Start .  The value is preserved to assist you in retirement.  That all changes when you reach 65 y/o.  It is now 11 years since I reached 65 y/o and went from New Start Mature Age ("mature age", did not have to look for work by agreement with Centrelink as I drove a school bus part time, not the same now).  As I recall my wife's super at the time had no effect on our New Start payments. ( may have changed since).

[Nemises]

While waiting for the pension, with the plan for immediate portability once obtained, I am getting Newstart (and the Thai wife works part-time).  Once you are over 60 you can withdraw Super at any time - whether working or not (in most Funds) - and it is tax free.  For those under 60 but over 55 they can retire when they hit 'preservation age', but that only applies to some now (maybe none) as the Govt has withdrawn this option for most people (I took it up some years ago before they changed it). 
 
Newstart is easy - the job requirement means 8-20 job applications a month - which are easily done online thru Seek etc. When I first started it was 20 and now it is 8. Those organisations tasked (paid) with 'helping' you get a job understand reality, and they pretty much leave you alone. Once a month they want a phone call 'interview' and every 2 months they want a face2face interview. That takes all of 5 minutes - they know the ropes and are just following the game rules.
 
If anyone can afford to live on Newstart (and pay rent) and top it up with Super/Savings if needed, then I recommend they look at coming back before the pension is due. If you can get a job then even better, but even though I am highly qualified and experienced, there aint nothing in my line of business  available here in this Qld 'retirement town'. If I was a tradie or a medical professional, it would not be a problem. But truth be told, I am happy to just take the Newstart money while waiting for the pension. 
 
Pension Portability is locked in for those here when they first apply under international social security agreements.  It is those that return after they reach Pension entitlement age that the Govt targets, and they will continue to target them going forward. Waiting for two years and all the other crap about being resident and staying permanently etc etc, does not apply if you are living here when you qualify.
 
 

Great advice, thanks Elvis.
What about cash in the bank (as opposed to super). Let’s say you have no super and don’t own a house nor other assets - you just have cash in the bank and you’re living with family whilst on Newstart. Do you (or anyone else) know exactly how much ca$h in the bank you are allowed to have before Centrelink start reducing your Newstart benefit?

[ELVIS123456]

28 minutes ago, Gregster said:

Great advice, thanks Elvis.
What about cash in the bank (as opposed to super). Let’s say you have no super and don’t own a house nor other assets - you just have cash in the bank and you’re living with family whilst on Newstart. Do you (or anyone else) know exactly how much ca$h in the bank you are allowed to have before Centrelink start reducing your Newstart benefit?

 

The liquid assets waiting period is between 1 and 13 weeks.

 

It applies if you have funds equal to or more than:

1. $5,500 if you’re single with no dependants, or
2. $11,000 if have a partner or you’re single with dependants

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/liquid-assets-waiting-period

 

However, the last Budget changed these amounts from 20 September 2018:

 

This measure will increase the maximum Liquid Assets Waiting Period from 13 weeks to 26 weeks from 20 September 2018.

Currently a person’s liquid assets (such as cash on hand, bank account balances, shares or term deposits), if high enough, will affect how long they need to wait before receiving certain payments.

The waiting period starts to apply at $5,500 for a single person with no dependent children and $11,000 for couples or a single person with a dependent child.

Under this measure, the maximum 26 week waiting period will apply where a person’s liquid assets reach $18,000 for a single person with no dependent children and $36,000 for couples or a single person with a dependent child.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/organisations/about-us/budget/budget-2017-18/jobseekers/liquid-assets-waiting-period-increasing-self-reliance

 

When you first apply they require you to provide details and the current balances in all your (and wife's) bank accounts.

Dont apply if the money in bank accounts is above those amounts - withdraw and use/store the cash well in advance.

They can ask for statements of account balance and activity going back for a while - but they usually do not.

They are only really interested in those with large amounts in a bank account trying to claim Newstart.

 

[moojar]

On 6/20/2018 at 2:32 PM, SplitInfinitive said:

Fool!

They have special technology now that penetrates our tinfoil hats with ease!

 

?

Funny, yes.  I don't think David meant this site, but you'd be a bit naive to think CL do not check your social media profile, especially if they have doubts about what you are telling them.  It's not just all their tea breaks and flexi-time long weekends that causes the weeks of delay between application and decision.  ?  

 

Wasn't there someone from CL International posting in this thread a few years ago?  (Sorry about the flexi-time jibe guys, you know how it is!  ? )  

 

But seriously, trying to pretend you're not married and don't actually reside in Thailand, yet there's your suntanned self with child-bride and Phuket villa plastered all over Facebook?  Good luck with that.   

[sceadugenga]

On 6/19/2018 at 11:16 AM, norbra said:

On my last visit to CL I was advised that the 2 year probation period would be reset to day 1,if I left the country for any reason,this was later confirmed by the International division where all enquiries of this nature can be answered and they answer the phone promptly

OK, I emailed a Federal Senator and received this reply today from her office.

................................................................................................................................................

The below outlines my understanding in regards to pension portability, and whether the two-year waiting period for recently returned residents is reset if the pensioner travels overseas for any reason.

 The short answer is no, the two-year period would not be reset to zero if a pensioner has a temporary overseas absence from Australia during this period.

 The two-year waiting period for people who return to Australia from living overseas and claim a pension is at section 1220 of the Social Security 1991. The Guide to Social Security Law explains the provision:

When someone, who was formerly an Australian resident, returns to Australia and again becomes an Australian resident and subsequently is granted a pension under the SSAct section 43(1), or transferred to Age under the SS(Admin)Act section 12, on or after 20 September 2000, that pension is not payable outside Australia if the recipient leaves Australia within 2 years of again becoming an Australian resident.

Within the two year period it is still possible for a person covered by this provision to leave Australia temporarily and this absence will not affect their status as residing in Australia. The temporary absence must be temporary. This is not always a straightforward thing to determine, so the definition of temporary absence is set out at length in the Guide (2.2.4.30).

..................................................................................................................................................

I'm not posting the full reply here but will forward it to anyone that anticipates being effected by the legislation who sends me a PM.

[LosLobo]

2 hours ago, sceadugenga said:

…in Australia. "The temporary absence must be temporary". This is not always a straightforward thing ….

How could a temporary absence be otherwise …….

 

Nevertheless a very informative post!

[David Walden]

On 6/1/2018 at 5:54 PM, simple1 said:

Cannot be correct. Age Pension living overseas in 2007 was 56,165. Some numbers by country in 2012...

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/struggling-pensioners-opt-to-leave-australia-for-a-cheaper-country-20140607-39pui.html

Lots to think about with Gov costs when, pensioners live overseas...if you live overseas the following amounts are payments the Govt in Australia and Western Australia will not have to pay you.....No Pension supplement ($1500 per year), no doctors fees or medical, no free hospital and medicine, no free public transport, no 50% Council rates discount, no 50% discount for water and sewer rates, no $250 a year subsidy on power bills, no free drivers licence, no free $600 a year fuel or taxi fares for country residence (yes in W.A we get near $600 free fuel card. as no public transport is available), no discount on postage stamps, no 50% discount on car registration (not 3^rd party ins), no 35% contribution from Gov premium on private health cover ($1000 a year for me).  And lots more.

I'm fairly sure recent comments on this site by stooges suggests that the Aus Govt is loosing $800,000,000 a years is incorrect,,(rubbish) they have got it wrong and the -$800 million they talk about being lost is the least they would save.  I believe the Gov is saving at least $10,000 for each OAP (AAP) or DSP recipient living overseas (80,000 approx) so my maths works out to be +875,000.000 and most likely a bit more, real cash savings for Aus..  State Gov and the Federal Govt and likely similar in other states.  Maybe Australia should export all its oldies and disabled people overseas.  So instead of a loss of $800,000,000 the Gov saves $875,000,000 so these calculation are out by $1,675,000,000.  These estimates are the sort of figures politician or political stooges come up with, rubbish? And we pay them good money to do it.   Thailand is quite good for the Aus Govt to save money? And not far for regular trips home....5555

For those who don't know Stooges are they people who work for someone and write incorrect informaton to champion the cause of other people. Usually under a false name. Very common in elections. I think I've seen a few on this web site...

Australia with its reciprical agreements with Countries like Italy and Greece and 31 other countries I am sure Aus gets the better part of this deal. Exporting some 50/60,000 returning immigrants to their birth countries where those countries pay their pensions and medical cost of them all, together with seniors benefits. Perhaps much less for older Australian returning from those countries and others coming to live back in Australia in there latter years. Many post war immigrants to Aus want to go back to their birth country for there final years, once there those countries pick up all the costs in regard to pension and other benefits. I feel there are a few crocodile tears from Govt stooges bagging about overseas retirees on this issue.

The Australian Govt is saving lots money by pensioner going to live in Thailand and other countries in their senior years. But as I often say “never let the truth get in the way of a good story”

Edited June 22, 2018 by David Walden

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Lots to think about with Gov costs when, pensioners live overseas...if you live overseas the following amounts are payments the Govt in Australia and Western Australia will not have to pay you.....No Pension supplement ($1500 per year), no doctors fees or medical, no free hospital and medicine, no free public transport, no 50% Council rates discount, no 50% discount for water and sewer rates, no $250 a year subsidy on power bills, no free drivers licence, no free $600 a year fuel or taxi fares for country residence (yes in W.A we get near $600 free fuel card. as no public transport is available), no discount on postage stamps, no 50% discount on car registration (not 3^rd party ins), no 35% contribution from Gov premium on private health cover ($1000 a year for me).  And lots more.

I'm fairly sure recent comments on this site by stooges suggests that the Aus Govt is loosing $800,000,000 a years is incorrect,,(rubbish) they have got it wrong and the -$800 million they talk about being lost is the least they would save.  I believe the Gov is saving at least $10,000 for each OAP (AAP) or DSP recipient living overseas (80,000 approx) so my maths works out to be +875,000.000 and most likely a bit more, real cash savings for Aus..  State Gov and the Federal Govt and likely similar in other states.  Maybe Australia should export all its oldies and disabled people overseas.  So instead of a loss of $800,000,000 the Gov saves $875,000,000 so these calculation are out by $1,675,000,000.  These estimates are the sort of figures politician or political stooges come up with, rubbish? And we pay them good money to do it.   Thailand is quite good for the Aus Govt to save money? And not far for regular trips home....5555

For those who don't know Stooges are they people who work for someone and write incorrect informaton to champion the cause of other people. Usually under a false name. Very common in elections. I think I've seen a few on this web site...

Australia with its reciprical agreements with Countries like Italy and Greece and 31 other countries I am sure Aus gets the better part of this deal. Exporting some 50/60,000 returning immigrants to their birth countries where those countries pay their pensions and medical cost of them all, together with seniors benefits. Perhaps much less for older Australian returning from those countries and others coming to live back in Australia in there latter years. Many post war immigrants to Aus want to go back to their birth country for there final years, once there those countries pick up all the costs in regard to pension and other benefits. I feel there are a few crocodile tears from Govt stooges bagging about overseas retirees on this issue.

The Australian Govt is saving lots money by pensioner going to live in Thailand and other countries in their senior years. But as I often say “never let the truth get in the way of a good story”

It's simple - no need for all the blah, blah stuff above - political optics.

 

BTW there are government released studies covering the topic, do some research.

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

It's simple - no need for all the blah, blah stuff above - political optics.

 

BTW there are government released studies covering the topic, do some research.

Do you always believe government release studies are always true...I have no political axe to grind.  I think my conclusion are just elementary?

[simple1]

12 hours ago, David Walden said:

Do you always believe government release studies are always true...I have no political axe to grind.  I think my conclusion are just elementary?

Not into unproven conspiracy stuff - actually IMO extremely boring & childish

[David Walden]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

Not into unproven conspiracy stuff - actually IMO extremely boring & childish

Lots to think about with Gov costs when, pensioners live overseas...

I cant understand what your point is...I have said previously that my posts are all based on my personal experiences.  The benefits get by being resident in Australia but spending 6/8 months in Thailand are just great....."if you live overseas the following amounts are payments the Govt in Australia and Western Australia will not have to pay you.....No Pension supplement ($1500 per year), no doctors fees or medical, no free hospital and medicine, no free public transport, no 50% Council rates discount, no 50% discount for water and sewer rates, no $250 a year subsidy on power bills, no free drivers licence, no free $600 a year fuel or taxi fares for country residence (yes in W.A we get near $600 free fuel card. as no public transport is available), no discount on postage stamps, no 50% discount on car registration (not 3^rd party ins), no 35% contribution from Gov premium on private health cover ($1000 a year for me).  And lots more.".

Regular trips back to Aus can be a great savings ( my pension goes back up by $60 p/f).   As I do have a place to stay (a house) and being single and separated the Gov pays me extra.  Pretty well all those benefits that people living overseas permanently forgo I get.  The trips to and from to Thailand never cost more then $300 return (if you go off peak).  Any how the time back in Aus lets me take stock of some of the silly but lovable that the Thais get up to.   Like deaths on roads 8 times the rate in Aus.  Crazy

[giddyup]

16 minutes ago, David Walden said:

 Regular trips back to Aus can be a great savings ( my pension goes back up by $60 p/f).   As I do have a place to stay (a house) and being single and separated the Gov pays me extra.  Pretty well all those benefits that people living overseas permanently forgo I get.  The trips to and from to Thailand never cost more then $300 return (if you go off peak).  Any how the time back in Aus lets me take stock of some of the silly but lovable that the Thais get up to.   Like deaths on roads 8 times the rate in Aus.  Crazy

Whoopee! An extra $60 pf, I'm sure that goes a long way in Oz. Are you calling the Thai death rate silly or lovable? Not sure what that has to do with your return trips to Oz. You don't choose to live in Thailand full-time, but plenty of us do, taking the good with the bad, even though we miss out on the "great savings" of $60 pf. You seem to be forever trying to justify these return tips, no need, just do what you want to do, same as the rest of us.

Edited June 23, 2018 by giddyup

[Ban Phe Dezza]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Whoopee! An extra $60 pf, I'm sure that goes a long way in Oz. Are you calling the Thai death rate silly or lovable? Not sure what that has to do with your return trips to Oz. You don't choose to live in Thailand full-time, but plenty of us do, taking the good with the bad, even though we miss out on the "great savings" of $60 pf. You seem to be forever trying to justify these return tips, no need, just do what you want to do, same as the rest of us.

Going back to Aus would mean a park bench for me or an old farts home 

[totally thaied up]

9 minutes ago, Ban Phe Dezza said:

Going back to Aus would mean a park bench for me or an old farts home 

For me, I have nothing to go back too. I would get about $60 a fortnight more, medical and not much else. I had a biopsy done this week and it may be very nasty. If it is, I will most likely never return home and it does not worry me one bit. I am lucky enough to come from a wealthy family and if I do outlive my parents, I will be kicked off the Pension but it is a race between them and me who is going to the boneyard first. Dad is 80 and Mum 78 and they look a hell of a lot better than me at 49!

[David Walden]

28 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Whoopee! An extra $60 pf, I'm sure that goes a long way in Oz. Are you calling the Thai death rate silly or lovable? Not sure what that has to do with your return trips to Oz. You don't choose to live in Thailand full-time, but plenty of us do, taking the good with the bad, even though we miss out on the "great savings" of $60 pf. You seem to be forever trying to justify these return tips, no need, just do what you want to do, same as the rest of us.

Well you know that old saying my mother used to say nearly every day   "look after your pennies and the pounds will look after themselves"

 

I really am putting this up stuff up to help benefit those who can take advantage of it.  There are a lot of Aussies who live mostly in Thailand who do just as I suggest, and there are plenty who don't...take your pick, it's as simple as that.

[David Walden]

6 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

For me, I have nothing to go back too. I would get about $60 a fortnight more, medical and not much else. I had a biopsy done this week and it may be very nasty. If it is, I will most likely never return home and it does not worry me one bit. I am lucky enough to come from a wealthy family and if I do outlive my parents, I will be kicked off the Pension but it is a race between them and me who is going to the boneyard first. Dad is 80 and Mum 78 and they look a hell of a lot better than me at 49!

Well at your age you better start planning for your retirement...only 49 y/o (21 years to go)... many good option available here for you, to many to go into detail.

[LosLobo]

8 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

For me, I have nothing to go back too. I would get about $60 a fortnight more, medical and not much else. I had a biopsy done this week and it may be very nasty. If it is, I will most likely never return home and it does not worry me one bit. I am lucky enough to come from a wealthy family and if I do outlive my parents, I will be kicked off the Pension but it is a race between them and me who is going to the boneyard first. Dad is 80 and Mum 78 and they look a hell of a lot better than me at 49!

I wish you the best of luck!

Thailand's lack of palliative care was always a worry for me.

[David Walden]

29 minutes ago, Ban Phe Dezza said:

Going back to Aus would mean a park bench for me or an old farts home 

Goodness me...you really know how to change something good into something bad.

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Well you know that old saying my mother used to say nearly every day   "look after your pennies and the pounds will look after themselves"

 

I really am putting this up stuff up to help benefit those who can take advantage of it.  There are a lot of Aussies who live mostly in Thailand who do just as I suggest, and there are plenty who don't...take your pick, it's as simple as that.

I doubt if getting an extra $60 pf is going to sway anyone, especially when the cost of living in Oz is probably triple that of Thailand, so not sure if that particular piece of advice would benefit anyone.

[giddyup]

Just now, David Walden said:

Goodness me...you really know how to change something good into something bad.

Good being your advice? Personally, I never intend going back to Australia, there is nothing for me there, all my bridges burned with no regrets, but some prefer to have one foot on the platform and the other on the train.

[David Walden]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

I doubt if getting an extra $60 pf is going to sway anyone, especially when the cost of living in Oz is probably triple that of Thailand, so not sure if that particular piece of advice would benefit anyone.

If you take the time to read all  my post my point is you can have it both ways.  That is the extra $10,000 or so a year by being resident in Aus and the the the great life you can have in Thailand...with a bit of planning?

[totally thaied up]

7 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Well at your age you better start planning for your retirement...only 49 y/o (21 years to go)... many good option available here for you, to many to go into detail.

I am already retired here now. No planning is going to help now but thanks for saying so.

[David Walden]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Good being your advice? Personally, I never intend going back to Australia, there is nothing for me there, all my bridges burned with no regrets, but some prefer to have one foot on the platform and the other on the train.

Yes take it or leave it.

[David Walden]

9 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I doubt if getting an extra $60 pf is going to sway anyone, especially when the cost of living in Oz is probably triple that of Thailand, so not sure if that particular piece of advice would benefit anyone.

Never said it would.

[giddyup]

Just now, David Walden said:

If you take the time to read all  my post my point is you can have it both ways.  That is the extra $10,000 or so a year by being resident in Aus and the the the great life you can have in Thailand...with a bit of planning?

It would cost far more than an extra $10,000 a year to support the difference in cost of living, but as I said, if it suits you do it, just don't be continually trying to justify your choice. I don't want to spend half my time in Thailand and half in Australia, I have a house a Thai partner and a comfortable life here.

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Never said it would.

Really, these aren't your words? " I really am putting this up stuff up to help benefit those who can take advantage of it. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by giddyup

[sceadugenga]

.....we seem to be going in circles here, surely this conversation is better suited for elsewhere in the Home Country forum?