Custody Of Illigitimate Daughter

[bigsister]

My brother has a thai born daughter and has now split up with the thai mother after she has turned bad (long story). He has been looking after his daughter for the last few months on his own, the ex turns up occassionally when she's no money left. He desperately wants to get his daughter a UK passport so that he can bring her to the UK and care for her but we know that the mother will not give her consent to this. They werent married and the birth wasnt legitimised. He knows that he can make an application for the passport without the mothers consent and it will be considered (thanks to the scouser), but he's not confident he will get it accepted. I thought it best he go to the courts for custody of his daughter but he tells me to get real, this is thailand, it will take forever and cost a fortune. He's not got a lot of money and has to come back to the UK where he works for part of the year before returning to LOS. His current visa expires in September so he's worried about the time it will take too. But if he has gets parental responsibility he wont need the mothers consent to get the passport/uk citizenship. Child was born before 01/07/06.

I wanted to hear from any fathers that had been in similar situations and what advice they could give. Has anyone managed to get citizenship without mothers permission? Can anyone recommend a good solicitor in Pattaya perhaps, that wont bleed him dry? How long did the court case take to go through? Sorry about all the questions, we just dont know what to do for the best.

thanks

bigsister

[Mahout Angrit]

He knows that he can make an application for the passport without the mothers consent and it will be considered (thanks to the scouser), but he's not confident he will get it accepted.

Why doesn't he believe the advice he was given? Provided he is named on the child's birth certificate as the child's father and he proves he is British otherwise than by descent by submitting his full birth certificate then he can apply for a passport for his daughter without the permission of the mother. As the child was born before 01/07/06 and the parents were unmarried at the time it is not automatic but will in all probability be considered favourably.

He should make the application now particularly as you say he is averse to applying for sole custody through the courts and getting involved with lawyers and their fees. He certainly wont be successful if he doesn't try.

That is not the case if he was applying for a Thai passport when both parents need to accompany the application unless one has sole custody.

See also British Embassy Bangkok and pinned thread here but he does not need to register his daughter, he can just apply for the passport saving a fat registration fee.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Mahout Angrit

[the scouser]

The actual advice given was that the child's father can seek the registration of his daughter as British citizen by application to the Home Office, but that they would normally expect both parents to sign the form, although the father can still apply and explain why the mother hasn't signed.

Scouse.

[mouse]

The actual advice given was that the child's father can seek the registration of his daughter as British citizen by application to the Home Office, but that they would normally expect both parents to sign the form, although the father can still apply and explain why the mother hasn't signed.

Scouse.

I think explaining the lack of the Mothers presence when applying, is not enough. Either her consent or a Court Order for custody is required. This is in line with International Law, as neither parent can remove a child from the country of birth, without the permission of both parents or due to sole cutody granted by a competent court.

I would suggest he wait until the Mother comes for funding again and then make her a financial offer to be paid once the child is in the United Kingdom. Once she understands that the child would get a better education and have a better life in the UK, it is certain that the Mother will agree to this in return for a financial settlement. Be fair however and offer annual visits to Thailand for the child so that the Mother does not loose her rights. I would also suggest that you ask the Mother to formally denounce her parental rights in a Thai court, so that she cannot change her mind later or extort more monies at a later date. Total expense should not be over 20,000 baht.

Edited February 16, 2008 by mouse

[JacknDanny]

My brother has a thai born daughter and has now split up with the thai mother after she has turned bad (long story). He has been looking after his daughter for the last few months on his own, the ex turns up occassionally when she's no money left. He desperately wants to get his daughter a UK passport so that he can bring her to the UK and care for her but we know that the mother will not give her consent to this. They werent married and the birth wasnt legitimised. He knows that he can make an application for the passport without the mothers consent and it will be considered (thanks to the scouser), but he's not confident he will get it accepted. I thought it best he go to the courts for custody of his daughter but he tells me to get real, this is thailand, it will take forever and cost a fortune. He's not got a lot of money and has to come back to the UK where he works for part of the year before returning to LOS. His current visa expires in September so he's worried about the time it will take too. But if he has gets parental responsibility he wont need the mothers consent to get the passport/uk citizenship. Child was born before 01/07/06.

I wanted to hear from any fathers that had been in similar situations and what advice they could give. Has anyone managed to get citizenship without mothers permission? Can anyone recommend a good solicitor in Pattaya perhaps, that wont bleed him dry? How long did the court case take to go through? Sorry about all the questions, we just dont know what to do for the best.

thanks

bigsister

I had a similar situation about 3 years ago.

Seperated from mother, I had custody of my son by mutual consent, but then she started saying things like 'One day I will come and take my son back" etc, etc.

Hired myself a good lawyer here in Bangkok. From start to finish was about 3 months. I ended up getting sole custody of my son. His mother lost ALL rights as mother.

The law certainly did not discriminate against me as a farang

[torrenova]

This is in line with International Law, as neither parent can remove a child from the country of birth, without the permission of both parents or due to sole cutody granted by a competent court.

But my missus could bring our daughter to Singapore by herself if I was working there for some time and could not get back home to Thailand. Or indeed to Tokyo or even London. You cannot be saying that in order for the baby to fly it must be accompanied by both parents as that clearly is not always possible.

Of course the baby would travel on a British passport to negate any visa issues but my wife would need a visa for certain countries I admit.

Edited February 16, 2008 by torrenova

[Maestro]

My brother has a thai born daughter and has now split up with the thai mother after she has turned bad (long story). He has been looking after his daughter for the last few months on his own, the ex turns up occassionally when she's no money left. He desperately wants to get his daughter a UK passport so that he can bring her to the UK and care for her but we know that the mother will not give her consent to this...

I see a possible solution right there in your post. Next time the mother turns up for money, your brother should have the document ready for her signature. No signature, no money.

Make that two signatures. The second one on a copy of her ID card, which may be useful, too.

Or make it fool proof. Mother doesn’t come along to the embassy, no money.

--

Maestro

[bigsister]

I would suggest he wait until the Mother comes for funding again and then make her a financial offer to be paid once the child is in the United Kingdom. Once she understands that the child would get a better education and have a better life in the UK, it is certain that the Mother will agree to this in return for a financial settlement. Be fair however and offer annual visits to Thailand for the child so that the Mother does not loose her rights. I would also suggest that you ask the Mother to formally denounce her parental rights in a Thai court, so that she cannot change her mind later or extort more monies at a later date. Total expense should not be over 20,000 baht.

Edited February 17, 2008 by bigsister

[bigsister]

I would suggest he wait until the Mother comes for funding again and then make her a financial offer to be paid once the child is in the United Kingdom. Once she understands that the child would get a better education and have a better life in the UK, it is certain that the Mother will agree to this in return for a financial settlement. Be fair however and offer annual visits to Thailand for the child so that the Mother does not loose her rights. I would also suggest that you ask the Mother to formally denounce her parental rights in a Thai court, so that she cannot change her mind later or extort more monies at a later date. Total expense should not be over 20,000 baht.

Do you mean 200,000 baht? What experience do you have of this please?

[JacknDanny]

I would suggest he wait until the Mother comes for funding again and then make her a financial offer to be paid once the child is in the United Kingdom. Once she understands that the child would get a better education and have a better life in the UK, it is certain that the Mother will agree to this in return for a financial settlement. Be fair however and offer annual visits to Thailand for the child so that the Mother does not loose her rights. I would also suggest that you ask the Mother to formally denounce her parental rights in a Thai court, so that she cannot change her mind later or extort more monies at a later date. Total expense should not be over 20,000 baht.

Do you mean 200,000 baht? What experience do you have of this please?

My personal experience, is that it cost me 100,000 baht from start to finish for everything. Money well spent for peace of mind and sole custody of your child