More Than One Wife

[Momo8]

I had a rather upsetting phonecall from my Thai friend today saying her Thai husband point blanc told her he will shortly be marrying another girl.

I guess this is allowed in Thailand and has to do with money etc. and the guy's ability to keep both women.My friend has a three year old son with this man and they have various commitments such as car/house loans and here he is planning to get married again.To a farang this practice obviouly wouldn't happen but my friend is highly distressed sayin the hubby is planning on staying with her for three days in the week the other wife for four,no idea what to advise her do do as I'm not living in Thailand anymore.Even if I was I wouldn't know how common is this pratice.

I have another friend who is Fillipina who had a Thai husband and they divorced when he found another wife and had another child.How prevalent and acceptable is this practive anyway?Any advice here from all? I'm at a loss.

[SoCal]

Three days a week sound like way too much.

I'd opt for zero.

If she accepts the actions of her husband, then she should be prepared to accept the consequences.

[Chang_paarp]

Was your friend's marriage registered at the ampour? If so she has a number of rights not excluding divorce and maintenance. If the marriage was not registered it could be a lot harder even if they went through a ceremony, it is not considered a legal marriage until registered and subject to divorce and so on.

Yes it seems common for one partner to go off with another person here. I know of a couple of people who it has happened to.

[Momo8]

Yes it was registered in Songklah I was at the wedding.She is from a good Thai family and she loves her husband that much I know.I guess I shouldn't be scandalised but she's at a loss at what do and divorce is out of the question.Loss of face and all that.The 'new' wife is much younger than he is and no job while my friend Air has been supporting his family and theirs through her university job.

He's adamant about this course of action suggesting he spend 3 days with her and 4 days with the other and swap every month.I am no authority with this but have heard of it happening so any advice many thanks.

[zaza]

To a farang this practice obviously wouldn't happen .

Who said that this practice is only linked to Thais or other races??

Who told you that (Falang= westerners) do not practice this too?

I know and had heard many cases of different men from different origins doing the same but with a bit different scenarios.

One English gentleman have a (legal) married English wife with sons in UK , (Amphor) Thai wife here in Bkk with a son and (mistresses) here and there as his favorite pass time.

Other close work-mate he is a very hi-so (Farang= Swiss) he is too loyal to his first wife but he'd managed to keep a permanent (mia noi) in another city and go for the typical (business) trips.

Other one is just being so ultra faithful to his first wife so he always go with (gigs) .

It is not the place nor the gender nor the race nor the religion you are from that decide who and how you act ; IT IS YOU AND ONLY YOU !

Kindly see this report and then :JUDGE by yourself!

Infidelity

Cheating keeps me happy!

Wake up call!

I wish you could read them thoroughly and then share with us your honest opinion if it is possible.

Best Regards.

Zaza

[buffcoat]

What a terrible shock for her, I feel very sorry for the poor lady. It appears that this is a Thai/Asian form of behaviour that is 'acceptable' as long as no one makes a fuss about it...losing face etc.

Since you friend is legally married then the new wife will be the Mia Noi (it is again telling that the Thais have a specific term for this kind of arrangement).

The cultural difference between Thai and farang shows up sharply in these circumstances and it is important to remember that what would be the right thing to do if you are farang is not necessarily true for a Thai.I am sure that some of the advice you will find on this forum will be culturally farang and not necessarily appropriate, especially with her not being able to consider divorce.

I could only advise that she takes her time to make up her mind about what to do next. The hard fact is that whatever path she follows she is in for a miserable time now and she needs to focus (easy for me to say) on where she wants her life to be in five years time.

It may be hard to say but if she is a very close friend and it is possible you might suggest she get a health check from her Dr. since it is quite possible her husband has been playing the field for some time and with more than one partner.

My qualifications to comment on this situation are based on the collapse of my marriage after my wife announced she had a new boyfriend, we were both farang so the cultural expectation was divorce which duly followed.

Again really sorry to read this...sometimes there is nothing you can do for someone in this situation in terms of practical advice but please do not underestimate the real help you can provide to your friend just by listening to her..that can do her more real good that anything else when she is really hurting.

[LaoPo]

Yes it was registered in Songklah I was at the wedding.She is from a good Thai family and she loves her husband that much I know.I guess I shouldn't be scandalised but she's at a loss at what do and divorce is out of the question.Loss of face and all that.The 'new' wife is much younger than he is and no job while my friend Air has been supporting his family and theirs through her university job.

He's adamant about this course of action suggesting he spend 3 days with her and 4 days with the other and swap every month.I am no authority with this but have heard of it happening so any advice many thanks.

If it was in Songhkla there's a good possibility the guy is Muslim...and 'entitled', according to his religion, to marry more than one woman...

LaoPo

[Abrak]

Zaza,

I dont think that you are telling us anything new.

The big difference in Thai society is that men's cheating is very much more open.

This includes going to a massage parlour and the 'mia noi' which by tradition was introduced to the husband by the wife. To be honest the only thing I find odd about this case is that it is being done without consultation with the wife.

Infidelity in the west is nearly always done behind the other partners back.

[zaza]

Zaza,

I dont think that you are telling us anything new.

The big difference in Thai society is that men's cheating is very much more open.

This includes going to a massage parlour and the 'mia noi' which by tradition was introduced to the husband by the wife. To be honest the only thing I find odd about this case is that it is being done without consultation with the wife.

Infidelity in the west is nearly always done behind the other partners back.

I agree with you on this point.

[NorthernStar]

He may be entitled to it according to his (possible) religion. But he is still under Thai laws.

My opinion is....

Divorce divorce divorce.

[gunnyd]

Technically my wife was still married to her Filipino husband when we married in the US. She got legally divorced in the US, but the Philippines does not recognize the divorce since there is no divorce in the Philippines. So legally she is a polygamist on Filipino soil.

I just have come to accept that I will be looked down upon when we go back to her hometown of Cebu City. All cultures are different. You just have roll with the punches if you're in love. But being the selfish bastard that I am I couldn't share my lovely wife.

GunnyD

Edited February 19, 2008 by gunnyd

[mrbojangles]

One English gentleman have a (legal) married English wife with sons in UK , (Amphor) Thai wife here in Bkk with a son

If he has done that Zaza, as both marriages are accepted under UK law, he is committing bigamy and therefore subject to incarceration if found out.

and (mistresses) here and there as his favorite pass time.

and he has a complete lack of moral standards IMO

[sbk]

My understanding is that the only way a Muslim man can have more than one wife is if the wife agrees to it.

I have known many women whose husband's have had multiple "wives". Some mind, some don't.

If it were me (and I asked my Thai staff this question too, they had the same response btw) Since she is supporting him and his family, tell him he is free to have as many wives as he wants but he gets no money, and neither does his family. She can kick him out or not, but don't give him or his family one penny. Tell him his new mia noi can get a job and take care of him and his family. She will lose face with him having a mia noi regardless of divorce or not. So why not do it with a bit of dignity and let him loose face instead?

[mrbojangles]

Nail on the head sbk

[Virin]

I guess this is allowed in Thailand and has to do with money etc.

This kind of behavior is unacceptable in my Thai social circle, I am Thai woman, living in Bangkok. This type of man might be proud among their friends but they are disgusted by social standard even though people don't say it in front of them. Non-Thais always think it's acceptable but the truth is NO, and Thais don't always say it outloud. Those who have truly understand Thai culture and society would know .

sbk, good advice.

[Momo8]

No he's not a Muslim just wants another 'wife'.Can you legally marry 2 women in Thailand? I think if he was content to fool around I don't know if my friend would turn a blind eye,but the arrangement he proposed is a bit over the top.

[Boo]

It is not legally allowed to have 2 wives in thailand & beleive (someone correct me if I am wrong) but she could clean him out of all assets & sue the other women for this infidelity.

I recall there exists a law where she could get financial compensation from the other women as she has effectively stolen her husband. I will try to find the threads from the past where it was mentioned.

IMO, sbk has the right idea, it would also be in your freinds interest to speak with a lawyer (but not one near her town) to get a full run down of her legal rights.

The problem is, if he is adament about having a mia noi & she is adament about not divorcing him then he really does have the upper hand as she will be the one losing out, not him.

[GuestHouse]

I had a rather upsetting phonecall from my Thai friend today saying her Thai husband point blanc told her he will shortly be marrying another girl.

My advice is stay right out of this.

If it works out it works out.

If it does not, you might find yourself the first port of call.

And you might just find yourself with a Thai husband who wants to know exactly what is going on between you and his wife that you should be giving her advice on her marriage to him.

[Momo8]

Nothing like that.

I have been friends with her since she first met the guy and just out of university,and he seemed like a perfectly great person, when they were not so well off I even helped his mother pick mushrooms and sell to make a living and she has two other sisters.This is going back 10 years ago.I am a close family friend and whenever I return to Bangkok they welcome me with open arms (and no I don't bring a truckload of gifts or money).

They bought a car for which they have to pay back 5 800/month and a house in Chonburi so they do have commitments apart from the young son.I think what upset me most about this story is that the guy proposed that arrangement opposed to having a fling and leave it at that.Not much I can do anyway as I'm not in Thailand and I don't want to get involved,was just wondering if a Thai man can do this. and get away with it.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Momo8

[sbk]

just wondering if a Thai man can do this. and get away with it.

Depends on the Thai wife........

AM Archive - Saturday, 11 March , 2000 00:00:00

Reporter: Ginny Stein

COMPERE: As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention, and nowhere more so than in Thailand where an international reputation has been built on the fine art of penis re-attachment. Twenty years ago, the crime of penicide came to public attention in Thailand with the report of an angry wife cutting off the penis of her philandering husband and feeding it to her ducks. It's an act that has now become widespread among Thai women seeking revenge against their unfaithful partners.

Reporting from Bangkok's Yani hospital - Ginny Stein:

GINNY STEIN: Thailand's leading penis re-attachment team has performed more than 30 surgical successes over the past two decades. It's led to other teams attempting to emulate their achievements. Dr Suthep Warapthomgrong from Bankok's Yani Hospital is a relative newcomer. He has sympathy for his patients.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] They hurt a lot, not just physically, but mentally. The penis represents their manhood. They lose confidence if they lose it.

GINNY STEIN: In this hospital, patients are often faced with two choices, penis re-attachment, or if that fails, penis reconstruction.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] We'll always try to re-attach it first. But sometimes that's not possible. If it's left too long before the victim comes to see us or if the piece isn't kept properly of if what's left is too short to re-attach.

GINNY STEIN: Forty-two-year-old policeman Songphong Nammwan has come back to hospital for a check-up. His wife was his attacker. She struck while he was sleeping.

SONGPHONG NAMMWAN: [Translated] As a men we consider the penis as the highlight of our lives. If we lose it, it means we die while living.

GINNY STEIN: Songphong's wife thought long and hard about her act of revenge, carried out one night after her husband arrived home drunk. She says the reason was simple - she could no longer accept her husband's belief that it was natural for him to have more than one woman.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: [Translated] Nobody can understand if they [inaudible] in my situation. He promised to list that woman but he didn't keep his word. We have been together for 20 years, and suddenly he wanted to bring another woman into our family. No woman can accept that.

GINNY STEIN: Thai men and women are increasingly at odds over an ages old custom of Thai men keeping a second or minor wife. While many Thai men view it as their right to have more than one woman or wife, that's not the view of most women.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: [Translated] I just thought that it wouldn't matter to me if he didn't have a penny. It was because he has the pennies that he enjoys sleeping around. We doubt it because they're together.

GINNY STEIN: Dr Suthep says all things considered, his patient is a lucky man. Re-attachment was not an option, as his wife had thrown his penis into a sewer. But reconstruction through a combination of skin, muscle and vein grafts and a silicone implant remains possible.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] He was lucky to have some part of it left. Some cases are worse, where the cut's too close to the pubic bone and there's no part left to re-attach the new penis to.

GINNY STEIN: Songphong and his wife are back together. His minor wife has moved on. He says he and his wife love each other much more than before, that his playboy days are over.

SONGPHONG NAMMWAN: [Translated] People don't really understand the cause of this, but between us it is nothing. It is a small matter. It is better than being killed.

www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s109598.htm

[pumpuiman]

Yes it was registered in Songklah I was at the wedding.She is from a good Thai family and she loves her husband that much I know.I guess I shouldn't be scandalised but she's at a loss at what do and divorce is out of the question.Loss of face and all that.The 'new' wife is much younger than he is and no job while my friend Air has been supporting his family and theirs through her university job.

He's adamant about this course of action suggesting he spend 3 days with her and 4 days with the other and swap every month.I am no authority with this but have heard of it happening so any advice many thanks.

If she is the one providing support...how can he afford another wife?

Cut off him and his family...if they ask why...tell them their son has decided to support them, along with an unemployed mia noy.

Watch things change quickly.

[Momo8]

Haha yes totally agree with the above SBK.Just the weirdest part about this is the arrangement the husband proposed,how can anyone contemplate him getting away with this crap? See what happens in the next few days but the guy is a complete a-hole to think he can get away with this.

[sriracha john]

Zaza,

I dont think that you are telling us anything new.

The big difference in Thai society is that men's cheating is very much more open.

This includes going to a massage parlour and the 'mia noi' which by tradition was introduced to the husband by the wife. To be honest the only thing I find odd about this case is that it is being done without consultation with the wife.

Infidelity in the west is nearly always done behind the other partners back.

Or wide open and willingly by both husbands and wives in large partner-swapping parties and get-togethers.

Pretty much a distinctly Western nuance...

Edited February 19, 2008 by sriracha john

[submaniac]

I guess this is allowed in Thailand and has to do with money etc.

This kind of behavior is unacceptable in my Thai social circle, I am Thai woman, living in Bangkok. This type of man might be proud among their friends but they are disgusted by social standard even though people don't say it in front of them. Non-Thais always think it's acceptable but the truth is NO, and Thais don't always say it outloud. Those who have truly understand Thai culture and society would know .

sbk, good advice.

I agree completely. Unless your friend is extreme lower class, living away from civilization, marrying two women at the same time is not a normal, socially accepted custom in Thailand. It may have been at one time, but not anymore. The educated, middle and upper class do not do the "mia noi"/"minor wife" thing (and he is not going according to custom anyways since the first wife did not agree), and even the lower class Thai's do not adhere to this custom in metropolitan areas. "Modern" Thai women just aren't used to putting up with this.

This behavior is called 'infidelity' and is not an established institution in Thai society. Not to say that many Thai men do not have affairs, but they do it in secret, like in the West. But to marry her is going too far, and is not "established Thai social custom".

The thing is while it is not socially accepted, Thais will generally keep their mouths shut about it. Virin is right, Thai's don't approve, but they don't speak it out loud. Without putting too much out about it on a public forum, one of my relatives is doing a sort of similar thing, but he did not marry the second woman. Furthermore, he keeps it a secret from his wife. He is my family, and Thai families generally stick together. But none of the family "approves" of it. At best we 'tolerate it'. (We also really do love his wife, and do not care much for the second woman much either.)

So to think this behavior is 'socially sanctioned' by Thai society is erroneous. Even if they were Muslim, SBK is right, you can't have more than one wife without the first wife's approval. It's just wrong. She needs to leave him. And if you bring up the issue of 'face' she is losing more face by tolerating this, than she would by divorcing him. Like any woman in the West, her friends (like you Momo8) will be telling her "why are you with this guy?"

[Beardog]

I would give the hubby the heave ho. Send em down the road & let him fend for himself & seek any liable assets available to get back from the divorce. Why should any human being have to put up with crap like that. He must be a real prize!

Not even the decency to talk to his wife first.

I know it is in Thai tradition- but still find it hard to believe someone you loved & lived with would be so cold hearted. Turn him out let him go down the road talkin to himself. He is lucky she doesn't cut his .....off

[geriatrickid]

Jeez. How does someone handle having multiple spouses? It's hard enough work when you have one g/f. What the guy may not realize that his kid is going to grow up hating him for treating his mother this way. Even if it's kept from the kid, as soon as the child finds out, the father is finished. If he values the relationship with his child, he'd better think twice. Adults often forget that kids will almost always take the mother's side, just because mom is the most important part of a kid's life, even if the dad is the greatest. It's what kids think and more importantly feel and it's a concept that adults seem to forget once they hit adulthood.

[zaza]

just wondering if a Thai man can do this. and get away with it.

Depends on the Thai wife........

AM Archive - Saturday, 11 March , 2000 00:00:00

Reporter: Ginny Stein

COMPERE: As the saying goes, necessity is the mother of invention, and nowhere more so than in Thailand where an international reputation has been built on the fine art of penis re-attachment. Twenty years ago, the crime of penicide came to public attention in Thailand with the report of an angry wife cutting off the penis of her philandering husband and feeding it to her ducks. It's an act that has now become widespread among Thai women seeking revenge against their unfaithful partners.

Reporting from Bangkok's Yani (Yanhee) hospital - Ginny Stein:

GINNY STEIN: Thailand's leading penis re-attachment team has performed more than 30 surgical successes over the past two decades. It's led to other teams attempting to emulate their achievements. Dr Suthep Warapthomgrong from Bankok's Yani Hospital is a relative newcomer. He has sympathy for his patients.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] They hurt a lot, not just physically, but mentally. The penis represents their manhood. They lose confidence if they lose it.

GINNY STEIN: In this hospital, patients are often faced with two choices, penis re-attachment, or if that fails, penis reconstruction.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] We'll always try to re-attach it first. But sometimes that's not possible. If it's left too long before the victim comes to see us or if the piece isn't kept properly of if what's left is too short to re-attach.

GINNY STEIN: Forty-two-year-old policeman Songphong Nammwan has come back to hospital for a check-up. His wife was his attacker. She struck while he was sleeping.

SONGPHONG NAMMWAN: [Translated] As a men we consider the penis as the highlight of our lives. If we lose it, it means we die while living.

GINNY STEIN: Songphong's wife thought long and hard about her act of revenge, carried out one night after her husband arrived home drunk. She says the reason was simple - she could no longer accept her husband's belief that it was natural for him to have more than one woman.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: [Translated] Nobody can understand if they [inaudible] in my situation. He promised to list that woman but he didn't keep his word. We have been together for 20 years, and suddenly he wanted to bring another woman into our family. No woman can accept that.

GINNY STEIN: Thai men and women are increasingly at odds over an ages old custom of Thai men keeping a second or minor wife. While many Thai men view it as their right to have more than one woman or wife, that's not the view of most women.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: [Translated] I just thought that it wouldn't matter to me if he didn't have a penny. It was because he has the pennies that he enjoys sleeping around. We doubt it because they're together.

GINNY STEIN: Dr Suthep says all things considered, his patient is a lucky man. Re-attachment was not an option, as his wife had thrown his penis into a sewer. But reconstruction through a combination of skin, muscle and vein grafts and a silicone implant remains possible.

SUTHEP WARAPTHOMGRONG: [Translated] He was lucky to have some part of it left. Some cases are worse, where the cut's too close to the pubic bone and there's no part left to re-attach the new penis to.

GINNY STEIN: Songphong and his wife are back together. His minor wife has moved on. He says he and his wife love each other much more than before, that his playboy days are over.

SONGPHONG NAMMWAN: [Translated] People don't really understand the cause of this, but between us it is nothing. It is a small matter. It is better than being killed.

www.abc.net.au/am/stories/s109598.htm

SBK .........Thank you for the giggles in our office now to read this article . (abt 9 women staff are fixing their eyes on the screen now and more will join soon, I can hardly type ........ )

[mellow1]

Zaza,

I dont think that you are telling us anything new.

The big difference in Thai society is that men's cheating is very much more open.

This includes going to a massage parlour and the 'mia noi' which by tradition was introduced to the husband by the wife. To be honest the only thing I find odd about this case is that it is being done without consultation with the wife.

Infidelity in the west is nearly always done behind the other partners back.

Or wide open and willingly by both husbands and wives in large partner-swapping parties and get-togethers.

Pretty much a distinctly Western nuance...

I'm from the west, but my family, or other families that I know, do not seem to have the lifestyle which you seem to be used to.

[zaza]

Zaza,

I dont think that you are telling us anything new.

The big difference in Thai society is that men's cheating is very much more open.

This includes going to a massage parlour and the 'mia noi' which by tradition was introduced to the husband by the wife. To be honest the only thing I find odd about this case is that it is being done without consultation with the wife.

Infidelity in the west is nearly always done behind the other partners back.

Or wide open and willingly by both husbands and wives in large partner-swapping parties and get-togethers.

Pretty much a distinctly Western nuance...

I'm from the west, but my family, or other families that I know, do not seem to have the lifestyle which you seem to be used to.

I'm from the east, but my family, or other families that I know, do not seem to have the lifestyle which most of the members think it is the typical pattern for Muslims' men to have more than one wife.

Back to the OP topic, please advise your friend with my son's (the future football legend) wise words:

Pick it or kick it !

Cheers!

[Momo8]

He's not a Muslim Zaza he's a Thai and I'm not in a position to give advice here I can only symphasize not emphasize.

From what I gather from her today he wants to set this 'other woman' up and marry her.My query was if this was legal.Obviously not.I feel for my friend but can't get anymore involved,will see what happens and will update.Nasty situation for her to be in.