Pestered By A Monk

[BigSnake]

Don't sound like a real Monk to me you and the wife did the wise thing. GOOD for you..

[baabaabobo]

Weird. I had exactly the same experience last week here in Phuket.

A 50+ year old monk flagged me down and asked me to take him about 10 kms in the wrong direction for me.

Although it was out of my way, a bit, I had time, as it was early morning, so I obliged.

The monk seemed genuine, barefoot with a begging bowl and his robes looked old.

He spoke no English and my Thai is limited yet we exchanged a few words and I learned that he was heading

back to Issan on a bus.

Then he mentioned that he had no money for the bus which I pretended not to understand.

At this point he retrieved from his robes a Monk I.D. which looked like a work permit but was saffron in colour.

The photo checked out so I gave him 500 baht. He told me he needed 200 more for the bus ticket and I said no.

Finally we got to an Esso garage where he asked me to stop.

Sure enough there was a big bus waiting to leave and I felt guilty enough to give him the other 200.

He then produced a beautiful little statue of "loong pawr Tuat "and a printed cloth and held my hand while we wished each other luck.

My TW says I did the right thing and I honestly believe this monk was sincere but I could be wrong.

It is a beautifully detailed little bronze statue & I felt good about helping him out.

[submaniac]

Yeah right so a 'pretend' monk is better than a 'fake' monk?

Well, what is 'supposed' to happen with a 'temporary monk' is that they are 'supposed' to act like a real monk, and live like a 'real monk' ('real monk' defined as someone who spends their entire life as a monk). I am really hesitant to do it because I would have to only eat one meal a day, sleep on the floor, and shave off my thick luxurious hair which I finally managed to be able to do a really good combover on.

We all know the "Thai way", which is to do as little as possible and find the loophole and exploit it. The "temporary monk" is an example of this. The tradition was that if a woman had a son become a monk, then her sins were forgiven. The Thai way of exploiting this is, "gee I can use this if my son only becomes a monk for a few days". Hence, it is pretty much standard tradition that one son in a family must become a monk, if only for a temporary period.

It shouldn't be a 'pretend' or 'fake' monk. The way it is supposed to work is that you are supposed to BE a real monk, albeit for a temporary period. That means no going over to your sister's house for food, picking and choosing food, etc. In reality, it doesn't work that way sometimes. Especially in Thailand where there are so many monks. With a large population of any group, you are bound to find some bad apples. And some people/monks, who will exploit the fact that Thais are genuinely very religious and do give alms and donations to monks.

[sonnyJ]

Basicly the monks are not allowed to ask for anything, also must except anything offered.

What the OP should have done was to ask where his moneastery/temple was located and to go there to give him a copy of Vinaya, or at least the Patimokkha part the next day.

An example of a real Bhikkuni in Thailand. I saw her standing next to the main door to one of the buildings at my appartment complex waiting for someone to open it. After five minutes I asked here did she wish to enter and got a positive reply. I don't have keycard for this door so told the security guy to open it. Locals were just passing by not even notising her.

[Momo8]

I wasn't poking fun at you Sub but sounds like more or less going into spiritual detox to me.I lived with some monks up in Danxia Mountains in China and went through the whole thing for two weeks as a 'guest' in the monastery (selfish reasons because I was doing a photoshoot and my husband knew someone who knew someone). They didn't ask for any money either but did make a donation.

It was an amazing experience.I woke up at 5am had one meal a day segregated of course,was taken all over the unexplored parts of the mountain I couldn't have lasted much longer though it is a very strict life for them.

Being a temporary monk/monkess is not for everyone I guess.

[katana]

Pepper spray.

You'd pepper spray a monk? lol

[Heng]

We haven't established that he was a monk.

[Spee]

Some interesting responses in this thread.

From my limited encounters up in the middle country, a "monk" will typically not flag down a vehicle. If out in the middle of nowhere, a vehicle may stop and the driver may ask "bpai nai krup" to offer a ride. But typically, if one or more monks from a local wat need a ride somewhere, it is arranged in advance with someone in the village or town.

I'm curious to hear more about situations where people have actually exchanged money directly with "monks." I don't pretend to know all the rules and customs, but from what I understand, lay-people are not supposed to hand cash directly to monks and monks are not supposed to accept it in that fashion. The money should go into the envelope so that no improprieties are assumed by having the lay-person and the monk both physically touching the money at the same time.

[geriatrickid]

You bring up a point though.

If a priest in full regalia was trying to wave one down in your (assuming christian for arguments sake) country, would one basically tell hime where to go or would one seriously consider his inconvenient request?

Soundman.

In my country with the past history of priests, it is more likely that a local citizen would drive on by, or give him the finger, or offer a rude comment than stop and say, oh beloved representative of the deity that holds so much power over me, allow me to stop and serve your needs.

Just because someone is a priest, monk, rabbi, imman etc., doesn't make them any more deserving of my assistance than someone truly in need. Let them pray for heavenly transit or assistance. Miracles do happen, right, so if they are devout enough, a wind spout will descend and gently convey him or her to his or her next place of pious devotion.

If folks want to be religious , it's up to them, just don't foist it upon me.

Edited February 21, 2008 by geriatrickid

[Naam]

Yesterday, whilst driving to work, a monk tried to hail down my car. I stopped to see what he wanted. He wanted a lift to somewhere many kilometers away. Giving a monk a lift somewhere is a fairly normal occurence - if it is somwhere near where you are going in the first place.

Since the destination was well out of my way - I politely declined to give him a lift. The monk then did something very surprising, he became rather agitated & started pestering me to give him a lift.

My TW, sitting beside me, told me to ignore him and drive off. I followed her advice.

However, it got me thinking...

Should monks be able to exhibit this kind of behavior, is it bad for Thai people to ignore a monk's request & should I have driven him to where he wanted to go?

Your thoughts.

Soundman.

my thoughts are only nuns should!

[pumpuiman]

Call me crazy, I would have given the old man a ride.

[Neeranam]

So Neeranam what's the object of being a fake monk if you are a farang?Were you in it for the money or the chicks?

Judging from his avatar - definately the chicks.

anyway...

How would one recognise a "fake" monk? I am also under the impression that to fake being among is a very serious offence in Thailand.

I wasn't a real monk but once after spending a couple of weeks in a forest monestary of Buddadhassa in Chaiya, Surathani, I got drunk coming back to Bangkok on the train. It wasn't long before I was in Nana Plaza showing off my ability to recite Pali prayers to hookers. I guess I conned a couple of them Actually, a knowledge of certain things and living like a monk(sometimes) did impress the girls.

[Maizefarmer]

Yesterday, whilst driving to work, a monk tried to hail down my car. I stopped to see what he wanted. He wanted a lift to somewhere many kilometers away. Giving a monk a lift somewhere is a fairly normal occurence - if it is somwhere near where you are going in the first place.

Since the destination was well out of my way - I politely declined to give him a lift. The monk then did something very surprising, he became rather agitated & started pestering me to give him a lift.

My TW, sitting beside me, told me to ignore him and drive off. I followed her advice.

However, it got me thinking...

Should monks be able to exhibit this kind of behavior, is it bad for Thai people to ignore a monk's request & should I have driven him to where he wanted to go?

Your thoughts.

Soundman.

Its illegal and its frowned on by all Thai's - but it happens a lot, and of course the "gullible" farang is prime target.

Next time, ask him for his "yellow pages" - every monk knows what it is - its the little yellow if book(let) monks get given, effectively their "monk id card" - or, if so inclined tell him to get in and go off to the nearest monastry, where whoever is in charge will take his robes from him.

Better still - sod it just drive on, no monk (genuine or not) worth their salt conducts themself like that.

[enyaw]

I imagine many a wrong'un could try to disguise themselves as monks, what better way is there to gain anonymity?