Samak Sundaravej was elected

[sriracha john]

Samak highlights his pipe dream on megaprojects

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej on Monday outlined his policies to more than 800 top officials and vowed not to initiate a purge in the bureaucracy.

Samak instructed the bureaucrats to accord him due respects and protocals at official functions but not in an excessive manner as if he and other Cabinet members were the royalty.

"Officials should not form a line to greet me and other ministers as this is reserved only for the revered institution of monarchy," he said.

On policy priorities, he said his government would focus on expanding the mass transit system within three years, noting that the underground train network in Bangkok would increase from some 20 kilometers to more than 100 kilometers.

The government was planning to take over the concession for the underground train in order to convert it into a state-run operation and facilitate the expansion, he said.

The Finance Minister would be in charge of the financial scheme to finance the mass transit construction which could be a combination of foreign loans and the issuing of six-year treasury bonds, he said.

The prime minister asked for full cooperation from authorities concerned to implement his megaprojects relating to the construction of dual train tracks nationwide and the water tunnel project to divert water from Mekong for farming in the Northeast.

He said his government would emulate on the exchange rate regime as practiced in Malaysia, Japan and China in order to cope with the baht appreciation.

He told the bureaucrats to assist his government in dispelling doubts about the silence killings prompted by the anti-drug campaign.

"The government should not be made accountable for silence killings committed by drug traffickers," he said.

In the first war on drug during the Thaksin administration, there were only 59 cases of extrajudical killings that policemen had to be held accountable in a judicial review but critics tried to pin the blame on the government for deaths committed by traffickers trying to silence one another, he said.

He insisted his government would proceed with the anti-drug campaign which should not be construed as a condone on drug-related killings.

- The Nation

[Plus]

Thank you very much for your input, you apparently have never heard of Bangkok mass transit lines developments. It's been only about six months since bidding was officially opened. Is it a "significant delay" that warrants reconsidering all the plans from the ground?

I was replying to your comment which is, "There's no time for that. Projects currently in the pipeline have been through all of this already, for four years." I interpreted this to mean that there are projects that had already been completley developed and were waiting for four years.

So you have NEVER heard of mass transit projects proposed by Thaksin himself, it was a central theme of his Bangkok election campaign in 2004. You've never heard of Purple, Blue, Red and all other multicolored lines. You've never heard of Thailand mega sale campaign, you've never heard of Surayud's government approving the Purple line, securing financing from Japanese banks and opening bids. You've never heard any of it, yet volunteer with explanations.

Can you post about something you know?

[steveromagnino]

With regards to the BMA, there is clearly going to be a major attempt to TRT/PPP to claim the credit for the increase in BKK infrastructure such as new BTS lines despite the fact that TRT/PPP were the main force blocking their development in an attempt to take control of both the MRT and BTS themselves.

I hope like heck that BMA can hold out and keep running things themselves, but I don't have too much hope. I suspect we are on the verge of another block as after all Samak was such a good governor he knows how BKK works.

[sriracha john]

No worries, Plus, it's all going to be completely finished relatively quickly..... if you believe Samak, that is...

PM affirms 9 subway lines to be completed in 3 years

Prime Minister and Defense Minister Samak Sundaravej affirmed while announcing policies to government officials that he will set up a committee to oversee the construction of 9 additional subway lines. The lines are expected to extend into surrounding provinces of Bangkok such as Samut Prakan, Nakorn Pathom, Nakorn Nayok and Pathumthani.

Samak himself will serve as the chairman of the committee.

The Prime Minister expected the 9 lines to be completed within the next 3 years as he says he is not worried about funding.

He stated that loans from the Japan Bank for International Cooperation as well as government bonds should be able to acquire the 300-500 million baht needed for the project. The premiere has also asked the Finance Ministry to buy back shares of the BTS Skytrain from foreign investors to aid in the extension.

Transportation Minister Santi Promphat affirmed that the Prime Minister’s plan coincides with surveys by the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy Planning and only minor adjustments are needed before the project takes off.

- ThaiNews

Edited February 26, 2008 by sriracha john

[steveromagnino]

No worries, Plus, it's all going to be completely finished relatively quickly..... if you believe Samak, that is...

Well of course after seeing what a great job he did as governor.... why subway?

Well of course the cost is like more than 5X more than above ground.

Totally unrelated, what is 20% of a bigger number, is it less or more than 20% of a smaller number?

Actually, if it cycles back to TRT days, contractors could really be hurting and have to pay 40% again. Let's see some clean govna-ment then.

Awesome, just when i think things are going backwards, I have these guys to thank for taking a great leap forwards. Excellent.

[sriracha john]

As a great believer in Samak's veracity, I'm positive that, within 3 years, I'll be able to take a subway ride all the way out to Nakorn Nayok province from Hua Lamphong.

[Ricardo]

PM affirms 9 subway lines to be completed in 3 years

Prime Minister and Defense Minister Samak Sundaravej affirmed while announcing policies to government officials that he will set up a committee to oversee the construction of 9 additional subway lines. The lines are expected to extend into surrounding provinces of Bangkok such as Samut Prakan, Nakorn Pathom, Nakorn Nayok and Pathumthani.

Samak himself will serve as the chairman of the committee.

The Prime Minister expected the 9 lines to be completed within the next 3 years as he says he is not worried about funding.

The Head-Chef may not have heard, there is currently a global credit-crisis, which might have some effect on his efforts to raise loans or sell bonds. But at least he can blame any delays on foreigners !

He stated that loans from the Japan Bank for International Cooperation as well as government bonds should be able to acquire the 300-500 million baht needed for the project. The premiere has also asked the Finance Ministry to buy back shares of the BTS Skytrain from foreign investors to aid in the extension.

Buying back shares, from foreign investors, would surely require additional capital, so how could it aid in financing the newest extensions ?

Transportation Minister Santi Promphat affirmed that the Prime Minister’s plan coincides with surveys by the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy Planning and only minor adjustments are needed before the project takes off.

- ThaiNews

[Plus]

These silly people can't decide whether they want to privatise or nationalise. They want to sell profitable Egat but buy debt ridden BTS and MRT.

Though their privatisation programs are not about selling the country - it's about BUYING it, like they bought PTT. They don't want BTS, so they will shift it to taxpayers to finance.

[Old Man River]

PM affirms 9 subway lines to be completed in 3 years

Prime Minister and Defense Minister Samak Sundaravej affirmed while announcing policies to government officials that he will set up a committee to oversee the construction of 9 additional subway lines. The lines are expected to extend into surrounding provinces of Bangkok such as Samut Prakan, Nakorn Pathom, Nakorn Nayok and Pathumthani.

Samak himself will serve as the chairman of the committee.

The Prime Minister expected the 9 lines to be completed within the next 3 years as he says he is not worried about funding.

The Head-Chef may not have heard, there is currently a global credit-crisis, which might have some effect on his efforts to raise loans or sell bonds. But at least he can blame any delays on foreigners !

He stated that loans from the Japan Bank for International Cooperation as well as government bonds should be able to acquire the 300-500 million baht needed for the project. The premiere has also asked the Finance Ministry to buy back shares of the BTS Skytrain from foreign investors to aid in the extension.

Buying back shares, from foreign investors, would surely require additional capital, so how could it aid in financing the newest extensions ?

Transportation Minister Santi Promphat affirmed that the Prime Minister’s plan coincides with surveys by the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy Planning and only minor adjustments are needed before the project takes off.

- ThaiNews

Financing can be arranged, no doubt, but at the end of the day there is a ceiling amount on how much debt a country can take on. Samak has to prioritize these mega projects as to which make the most sense for revenue production. At this point, it doesn't look like he has done that. Instead, it is coming off as political rhetoric which is a waste of time given that they have already won the election.

[chownah]

Thank you very much for your input, you apparently have never heard of Bangkok mass transit lines developments. It's been only about six months since bidding was officially opened. Is it a "significant delay" that warrants reconsidering all the plans from the ground?

I was replying to your comment which is, "There's no time for that. Projects currently in the pipeline have been through all of this already, for four years." I interpreted this to mean that there are projects that had already been completley developed and were waiting for four years.

So you have NEVER heard of mass transit projects proposed by Thaksin himself, it was a central theme of his Bangkok election campaign in 2004. You've never heard of Purple, Blue, Red and all other multicolored lines. You've never heard of Thailand mega sale campaign, you've never heard of Surayud's government approving the Purple line, securing financing from Japanese banks and opening bids. You've never heard any of it, yet volunteer with explanations.

Can you post about something you know?

But that is exactly what I do.....and yes, I volunteered information about some of the standard reasons why large infrastructure projects are delayed...and how in some instances delays are beneficial....this is something I do know about and this is what I posted. I was prompted to post this because one of your post seemed to indicate that you were not aware of the legitimate reasons for delaying projects...I might be wrong and maybe you knew this all along....I don't know....I even thought that there might be other people than yourself reading this thread and they might like some information about why projects might be delayed for legitimate reasons so that they could think about this issue and maybe view it from a more informed perspective to determine whether a delay might be legitimate....or not.

You posted, "You've never heard any of it, yet volunteer with explanations." I want to point out that what I posted can be applied to any major infrastructure development project which is being managed with modern administrative techniques....doesn't matter where they are being proposed or who is involved.......I really don't understand your incredulity.

Chownah

[steveromagnino]

These silly people can't decide whether they want to privatise or nationalise. They want to sell profitable Egat but buy debt ridden BTS and MRT.

Though their privatisation programs are not about selling the country - it's about BUYING it, like they bought PTT. They don't want BTS, so they will shift it to taxpayers to finance.

It is pretty easy; they want to sell profitable organisations to themselves such as PTT (which TRT insiders paid 35 baht for FACT), and they want to nationalise loss making organisations with subcontracts such as MRT/BTS; then from the inside run them themselves awarding themselves profitable contracts using govt money.....or alternatively arrange cheap/free govt sourced financing and sell to themselves at a very low P/E.

This is all easily researched by just talking off the record with any of the various financiers doing these deals. TRT/PPP are completely brazen about this sort of thing.....the lovable rascals that they are.

[Old Man River]

These silly people can't decide whether they want to privatise or nationalise. They want to sell profitable Egat but buy debt ridden BTS and MRT.

Though their privatisation programs are not about selling the country - it's about BUYING it, like they bought PTT. They don't want BTS, so they will shift it to taxpayers to finance.

It is pretty easy; they want to sell profitable organisations to themselves such as PTT (which TRT insiders paid 35 baht for FACT), and they want to nationalise loss making organisations with subcontracts such as MRT/BTS; then from the inside run them themselves awarding themselves profitable contracts using govt money.....or alternatively arrange cheap/free govt sourced financing and sell to themselves at a very low P/E.

This is all easily researched by just talking off the record with any of the various financiers doing these deals. TRT/PPP are completely brazen about this sort of thing.....the lovable rascals that they are.

As it pertains to infrastructural contracts, how would the TRT compare to other administrations?

[sriracha john]

The politics of Thai revisionist history

CHIANG MAI - Thailand's new Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has been in office less than a month but he has already stirred political turmoil with remarks about the country's past struggle for democracy and its current campaign against Muslim militants in its southernmost provinces.

This bodes ill for the country's first democratically elected government since former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was ousted in a September 2006 coup and its stated vow to achieve national reconciliation after years of political unrest. Samak's remarks came during interviews with international broadcasters CNN and al-Jazeera shortly after assuming the premiership in early February.

Samak's remarks in a February 9 CNN interview, where he claimed only one person was killed during the violent crackdown on student demonstrators on October 6, 1976, in Bangkok, were the first to spark political protests. At least 46 demonstrators were killed during that melee, which Samak, at the time a police newcomer, allegedly helped to fuel through his inflammatory broadcasts over an army radio station in which he accused student activists of being communists bent on toppling the monarchy, according to historical accounts.

He repeated this in a subsequent interview this month with al-Jazeera and added new volatile statements. Specifically, he placed the blame for the suffocation deaths of 78 southern Muslim suspects on the detainees themselves rather than the military which was transporting the bound suspects in cramped, poorly ventilated vehicles in Narathiwat province in October 2004.

Rights groups have already warned that Samak's statements could further stoke the flames of insurgency and torpedo hopes that the new government might reach an accord with the rebels.

Photos and footage of the violent 1976 crackdown and its aftermath show students at the university being fired on by military and right-wing paramilitary forces. Protesters are shown shot, hanged, beaten and their bodies set on fire. Some images show bodies being mutilated or dragged by the neck across a football field inside Thammasat University. Images which contradict Samak's revisionist claims are readily available on various Internet websites.

Samak's remarks have drawn condemnation not just among the political opposition, civil society and academics, but also from members of his own ruling coalition - some of whom were among the student demonstrators in 1976 and later fled to the jungles to take up arms against the government. Many of them later became senior advisors in Thaksin's government and are known to be more loyal to the ousted premier than to Samak.

An open letter accusing Samak of distorting historical facts was issued by former student activists, known locally as the "October generation", on February 17 at a symposium held at a memorial in Bangkok dedicated to slain students. Suriyasai Katasila, Secretary-General of the Campaign for Popular Democracy and also a member of the anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy, requested on February 22 that Samak apologize to the relatives of those killed.

The Thammasat University Student Union has also issued a statement demanding an apology from the prime minister to the survivors and the families of the victims and the opening of a new official examination of the circumstances surrounding the event. If pursued with earnest, several current high-ranking officials, including Samak, could be dragged into the investigations.

Internal rifts

More significantly, perhaps, Samak's statements are already causing rifts inside his own People's Power Party-led government. Adisorn Piangket, a former student activist who fled to the jungle after the October 6 crackdown and is now one of the 111 former Thai Rak Thai Party executives banned from politics for five years, warned Samak on February 19 that his version of history could turn some of his political friends into enemies.

Chaturon Chaisaeng, the former acting Party Leader of Thai Rak Thai after the 2006 military coup, called on Samak to study the history of October 6 more closely before making public comments to international media. He, too, said he was in favor of a new examination of the events.

Samak, it would seem, can ill-afford to make new political enemies. He is already seen by many as Thaksin's puppet premier and some believe his position was further undermined last week when several key appointments of assistants, secretaries and ministerial advisers went to known Thaksin loyalists and not his chosen candidates.

This week's announcement that Thaksin will return to Thailand on February 28 after 17 months in exile to fight corruption charges has been viewed by some analysts as indication that he is unhappy with the way Samak is running his by-proxy government.

The same analysts speculate that Thaksin may feel that Samak - who is an outsider among Thaksin loyalists and according to one party insider has only spoken with Thaksin by phone twice since agreeing to head the PPP last year - needs to be reined in before he does any real political damage to the party's image and popular standing.

Already the Democrat Party is threatening to bring the October 6 issue up for examination at the next meeting of the House of Representatives, according to Democrat MP Thepthai Senpong. Democrat Party Deputy Leader Alongkorn Pollabut called on Samak on February 23 to apologize, while also calling for the establishment of a committee to investigate the 1976 incident.

A former student activist and now Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister, Surapong Suebwonglee, called on both sides on February 21 to stop using the event as a political tool. Samak has said, "I won't object to anyone doing anything, but for me, I'll stop talking about this." The events of October 14, 1973, October 6, 1976, and May 1992 remain unsettled incidents that largely live on in the memories of participants and witnesses, but are often glossed over in Thai history books.

Samak, of course, was not acting alone in stirring right-wing agitators and did not have the power at the time to order the security forces into action. Samak may have been the public voice of the right through his radio broadcasts, but as he has frequently argued, he did not have any political or official position at the time of the violence - although he was appointed Interior Minister after the military launched a coup in the wake of the crackdown. Still, Samak's self-defense has been weak and inconsistent.

He has alternately cited a lack of memory or incongruously raised his recent political popularity, including his garnering of over 1 million votes in his resounding 2000 Bangkok gubernatorial election win. More recently, he has claimed that an "invisible hand" is at work to discredit him and bring down his government.

Samak once remarked, "During the gubernatorial election race, I was verbally bullied that I was a murderer. But I won over a million votes and my opponent only got 500,000 votes. Has there been anyone in Thailand winning over 1 million votes? There is only Samak." In reference to his previous speeches and prior acknowledgements of a higher death count, he said, "Time lapsed for 31 years and I don't know why I said what I did."

Such statements have done little to boost public confidence in the premier, and neither has his February 20 pledge to no longer comment on the issue.

Distorted facts

A more immediate issue concerns Samak's distortions of the October 2004 Tak Bai incident, in which over 1,300 Muslims demonstrated at a police station in Narathiwat province in the country's violence-plagued south. The demonstration was broken up by police and army forces wielding batons and firing live ammunition. Seven protesters were shot and killed and 78 others were suffocated or crushed to death while being transported to an army detention facility in neighboring Pattani province.

Eyewitnesses have claimed that demonstrators were thrown face down in the back of army trucks and were stacked up four or five people high in the vehicles. International rights groups at the time expressed grave concerns about the Thai government's handling of the incident. The US-based rights advocacy group Human Rights Watch characterized the incident as a "massacre".

Both the Thaksin and General Surayud Chulanont governments promised justice, but no criminal proceedings have been brought against any of the commanders or perpetrators. Lack of prosecution persists despite the December 14, 2004, conclusions of a Thaksin-appointed fact-finding committee, led by then parliamentary ombudsman Pichet Sorntompiphit, that Thai security forces did not follow established guidelines during the dispersal of the protesters.The committee also found that commanding officers were culpable because they did not adequately supervise the transport of the arrested demonstrators.

When questioned about the incident during the al-Jazeera interview, Samak pinned the blame for the deaths of those suffocated on the detained demonstrators themselves because they hadn't eaten or drunk during Ramadan and weren't strong enough to remain upright in the back of the trucks - similar to a claim Thaksin made about the deaths while he was in power.

Samak told al-Jazeera, "So that's it. It's a tragedy. It happened. Nobody intended to kill them. They die because of their physical [sic] ... So, so what's wrong with that? What's wrong with that? What is the execution of that? What is it?"

Asked whether the deaths occurred because the suspects lacked air, Samak replied, "When people got in the truck, in the good shape, and running, actually nobody think they will be like that, but if the people happen not to eat, not to drink, not to swallow, and then somebody fall down [with] others on the top ... So 78 died out of 1,300."

Rights groups say that Samak's distorted remarks show a callousness that could serve to further inflame passions among Muslims in the violence-plagued deep south, especially if his comments are a forewarning of the type of policies his government will pursue in the region, an area already suffering from the heavy-handedness of security forces and brutal tactics of insurgents.

There are similar concerns as the new government looks set to re-launch the "war on drugs" - a 2003 Thaksin campaign, which resulted in the extrajudicial killing of over 2,500 people, many allegedly carried out by police forces against unarmed suspects. To date there have been no prosecutions for any of those unresolved murders.

If Samak's comments about past state-sponsored atrocities are any indication, impunity for rights abuses will likely be the norm during his administration as well.

- Asia Times

[sriracha john]

Samak condemned for distorting facts

A rights activist group has condemned Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej for twisting the facts on the Tak Bai tragedy in a recent television interview. The Justice Working Group for Peace released a statement yesterday accusing Samak of distorting the facts about the death of 78 Muslim protesters who suffocated while being transported from a protest site in front of Narathiwat’s Tak Bai police station to a military camp for interrogation in October of 2004. Samak told the Al-Jazeera television reporter the protesters died because they were weak. He said they were suffering from dehydration and lack of food because they had been fasting. The activists said in the statement Samak’s information contradicted the findings of House and Senate inquiry committees and an independent committee. They said Samak’s comments during the interview were not based on facts and violated the dignity of the dead victims. What he said would destroy public trust in state officials and create suspicion among those seeking justice, particularly the people in the deep South.

Continued here:

http://facthai.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/sa...e-bangkok-post/

Edited February 27, 2008 by sriracha john

[steveromagnino]

As it pertains to infrastructural contracts, how would the TRT compare to other administrations?

IMHO off the charts; this administration did not just do a few major high ways; they did those, PLUS airport, government asset sales, buying all the distressed assets from TAMC they wanted at bargain prices, changing government policy and TOR to give themselves and their own companies work..... I would say the skim per person was higher and there were a LOT more people skimming plus the proceeds were more direct.

Plus they skimmed for 5 years...most of the other governments have not lasted that long. And the degree of using state businesses to provide soft loans etc was significantly more sophisticated than in previous administrations.

Certainly, I think most insiders can state that the skim was several multitudes higher (e.g. 40%) than in previous administrations (20%).

Let's remember that many of the skimmers in the Chuan governments were also in the TRT governments as well. Same rogues, different colours.

Off the top of my head, I'd say at least 10 times higher per year in total baht terms than the skim/leakage during the Chuan government directly preceeding it.

[Old Man River]

As it pertains to infrastructural contracts, how would the TRT compare to other administrations?

IMHO off the charts; this administration did not just do a few major high ways; they did those, PLUS airport, government asset sales, buying all the distressed assets from TAMC they wanted at bargain prices, changing government policy and TOR to give themselves and their own companies work..... I would say the skim per person was higher and there were a LOT more people skimming plus the proceeds were more direct.

Plus they skimmed for 5 years...most of the other governments have not lasted that long. And the degree of using state businesses to provide soft loans etc was significantly more sophisticated than in previous administrations.

Certainly, I think most insiders can state that the skim was several multitudes higher (e.g. 40%) than in previous administrations (20%).

Let's remember that many of the skimmers in the Chuan governments were also in the TRT governments as well. Same rogues, different colours.

Off the top of my head, I'd say at least 10 times higher per year in total baht terms than the skim/leakage during the Chuan government directly preceeding it.

I am certain it was more than the Chuan governments, but really was questioning administrations under Banharn (the walking ATM machine), Chavalit and some of the others. As it relates to Thaksin, it is incredible that Jaruvan et al. couldn't come up with anything relating to these infrastructural contracts.

[Samuian]

....why is it that so many westerners, as we can see here, with an obvious background and ability to apply intelligence have given up their brains at the customs desk when entering the Land of Smile, and now blindly follow infantile ideology and propaganda?

... self speaking?

Or only working at his Propaganda and PPP Promotion Office

[Tony Clifton]

As it pertains to infrastructural contracts, how would the TRT compare to other administrations?

IMHO off the charts; this administration did not just do a few major high ways; they did those, PLUS airport, government asset sales, buying all the distressed assets from TAMC they wanted at bargain prices, changing government policy and TOR to give themselves and their own companies work..... I would say the skim per person was higher and there were a LOT more people skimming plus the proceeds were more direct.

Plus they skimmed for 5 years...most of the other governments have not lasted that long. And the degree of using state businesses to provide soft loans etc was significantly more sophisticated than in previous administrations.

Certainly, I think most insiders can state that the skim was several multitudes higher (e.g. 40%) than in previous administrations (20%).

Let's remember that many of the skimmers in the Chuan governments were also in the TRT governments as well. Same rogues, different colours.

Off the top of my head, I'd say at least 10 times higher per year in total baht terms than the skim/leakage during the Chuan government directly preceeding it.

I am certain it was more than the Chuan governments, but really was questioning administrations under Banharn (the walking ATM machine), Chavalit and some of the others. As it relates to Thaksin, it is incredible that Jaruvan et al. couldn't come up with anything relating to these infrastructural contracts.

When you have corruption experts at the wheel, they don't leave many tracks behind. Just like one of Thaksin's ex-cabinet members said when he went against him, the cabinet meetings were never recorded specifically because of the corruption that went on in those cabinet meetings. It's not over.

[jumnien]

Photos and footage of the violent 1976 crackdown and its aftermath show students at the university being fired on by military and right-wing paramilitary forces. Protesters are shown shot, hanged, beaten and their bodies set on fire. Some images show bodies being mutilated or dragged by the neck across a football field inside Thammasat University. And yet there are still right wingers sympathetic to Sonthi's Army and the coup who hypocritically fell silent completely regarding the Thammasat massacre throughout the coup. They relished the threat of violence used against the Thai people as long as it served their selfish aims.

[steveromagnino]

Photos and footage of the violent 1976 crackdown and its aftermath show students at the university being fired on by military and right-wing paramilitary forces. Protesters are shown shot, hanged, beaten and their bodies set on fire. Some images show bodies being mutilated or dragged by the neck across a football field inside Thammasat University. And yet there are still right wingers sympathetic to Sonthi's Army and the coup who hypocritically fell silent completely regarding the Thammasat massacre throughout the coup. They relished the threat of violence used against the Thai people as long as it served their selfish aims.

sorry Sunrise, can you post up the quote where Sonthi and his army said only 1 person died during 1976, and how they weren't at all involved with it and where there was a photo showing they were?

Sorry, as I only have Samak for that one, and that's the only reason why people are talking about all this at the moment.

Yes or no - do you believe that Samak is the best person to run Thailand

[Plus]

Sonthi or Samak - who got his hands bloody in 1976?

I don't think the army was directly involved in those events at all. Most violence was by right-wing mobs, police stood by and watched. What role did the army play? Even if they were heavily involved, how does that relate to Sondhi at all?

[chownah]

Yes or no - do you believe that Samak is the best person to run Thailand

I'd like to expand on this question with a hypothetical situation. Next week, there is an election....Thai voters can vote Samak, Toxin, and neither..........what do you think would be the outcome (percentage of people voting and how the votes would be split.

Also, how about another scenerio with Samak, Toxin, Abhisit, and non of the above.

Chownah

Edited February 28, 2008 by chownah

[chownah]

Sonthi or Samak - who got his hands bloody in 1976?

I don't think the army was directly involved in those events at all. Most violence was by right-wing mobs, police stood by and watched. What role did the army play? Even if they were heavily involved, how does that relate to Sondhi at all?

I don't know for sure what role the army had to play but I'm assuming they had a role or else they wouldn't have been there.....I presume that the army was there to protect life and property....in that order.....but I could be wrong....perhaps they were there to keep the police from protecting the demonstrators...this is just a hypothetical possibility since I really don't know.....but don't you think if they didn't have a role to play that they wouldn't have been there?

Or maybe the army wasn't there at all....yes, I'm that ignorant....I'm hoping to learn things here.

Chownah

[soundman]

Yes or no - do you believe that Samak is the best person to run Thailand

I'd like to expand on this question with a hypothetical situation. Next week, there is an election....Thai voters can vote Samak, Toxin, and neither..........what do you think would be the outcome (percentage of people voting and how the votes would be split.

Also, how about another scenerio with Samak, Toxin, Abhisit, and non of the above.

Chownah

Ohhh ... a guestimate on total vote. I'm good at those.

Samak 5% vote for turning up & from those that hate the media.

Taxin 40% for 5Bil Baht, a couple of truck loads of amphetajouls, and a handful of aledged attempted murders or aledged corruption specialists to show how strong he is.

Abhisist 45% for being honest and trying to lead the country in a direction that will be beneficial for generations to come.

Mickey Mouse 10%.

Outcome. Taxin will buy & continue to buy the first place at the feeding trough for many years to come.

[sriracha john]

....why is it that so many westerners, as we can see here, with an obvious background and ability to apply intelligence have given up their brains at the customs desk when entering the Land of Smile, and now blindly follow infantile ideology and propaganda?

... self speaking?

Or only working at his Propaganda and PPP Promotion Office

No need to feed the Troll.... he's gone again, anyway.

Edited February 28, 2008 by sriracha john

[steveromagnino]

Yes or no - do you believe that Samak is the best person to run Thailand

I'd like to expand on this question with a hypothetical situation. Next week, there is an election....Thai voters can vote Samak, Toxin, and neither..........what do you think would be the outcome (percentage of people voting and how the votes would be split.

Also, how about another scenerio with Samak, Toxin, Abhisit, and non of the above.

Chownah

ok, I'll bite. But I still want your answer

Thaksin would win (obviously). he would sweep the Northeast and the North; Bangkok would tilt slightly to Abhisit; Central probably slightly to Abhisit and the south would run in the other direction from Thaksin. Samak would get almost nothing.

If you did a poll of wealth level vs. vote....I would say Thaksin would get something like 80% of the vote for people with wealth lower than the minimum tax rate; what is that like 25,000b a month...... and 20% of the vote above that. Except for the south, where his shafting of the south as punishment for not voting for him is a legacy that TRT will not overcome.

But who is the best person to run the country? Probably out of that lot, Abhisit.

And if none of the above... then Supachai Panitpakdi would be the best to run the economy and probably get the country performing a bit better. Anand would be excellent also. I actually think Apirak would be in some ways better than Abhisit. If I had to look a little further...then perhaps Srettha the head of Sansiri who I think is a better biz mogul slash PM. If he had a personality better than a dishcloth, then Somkid would not be bad as a PM, hopeless financier but not a bad bloke. Sadarat if she didn't feed quite so much.

To be honest, it isn't about the PM so much as the backers and the factions. I thought quite long and hard last night for a few minutes about why is it that with the same political backers (e.g. CP) and with the same politicians or their proxys, why the democrats and TRT are so far apart.

FOr instance...in the case of backers, CP is well known to back both parties. In the case of TRT, they have got MASSIVELY richer (so much for TRT thumbing their nose at the elite, if EVER there was elite it wouild be this family) as a result of govt policy which was tilted to favour CP

- retail regulation stopping hyper market development of 400sqm or bigger stores....7:11 stores not affected so given free reign to run all over local retailers - you know CP's VP of biz dev (I think, it could be another title) was the head of the thai retailers assocation that asked for all the help to protect mom and pop stores in the early 2000s right/??!

- bird flu - govt lied on their behalf, then pushed closed system (which CP runs) and also bought out large stocks of chicken when it couldn't be sold (chicken for planes)

- village fund helped encourage farmers to spend money on CP products; floor ceilings and buy back schemes; etc etc

- CP's profit share is fairly lopsided; to think that much of what they do has a trickle effect to the masses....5555555555555

They sure got shafted in telcoms, but you can't have everything; that was the ultimate backer (shin) and one had to win. Construction, property, blah blah blah - the big elite new wealth Thai Chinese families, some fed until they could feed no more; if you were on the right side and were willing to pay up to be part of it, then from Picnic Gas to SC asset...you got filthy rich.

FOr the rural poor....TRT understood the value of some giveaways using govt money.

I put it down to TRT listening and responding more to what the backers and what the voters ask for. Not what they need, what they ask for. Backers know what they need, and it is pretty similar to what they want. Voters..want cheap fuel, guaranteed prices for their crops, healthcare and in Bangkok, some sort of NPL management. Guess what...they got all of those things.

And right now, only TRT/PPP has made the step up to doing research and figuring out how to guage what people want; I know this, because....surprise surprise..... I have had some experience in market research and have answered some fairly interesting questions from some TRT people in the past; smart enough questions to know they understand sampling, error, what to ask, hypothesis testing, statistical difference....all the stuff any basic business researcher would know before launching a new product.

With controls, Taksin would be fine. But since he took all the controls away and was on the verge of taking the last one out as well pre coup, that is the issue......out of control the guy is a disaster. With some controls....yeah, probably almost ok.

[chownah]

Yes or no - do you believe that Samak is the best person to run Thailand

I'd like to expand on this question with a hypothetical situation. Next week, there is an election....Thai voters can vote Samak, Toxin, and neither..........what do you think would be the outcome (percentage of people voting and how the votes would be split.

Also, how about another scenerio with Samak, Toxin, Abhisit, and non of the above.

Chownah

ok, I'll bite. But I still want your answer

Do I think that Samak is the best person to run the country?...No, I don't. It is an interesting question in that it presupposes that either there is one best outcome for the country that we all agree on.... or that anyones particular answer is driven by their own particular notions as to what is the best outcome for the country. For some foreigners Samak might represent the best choice; they might think that he will destabilize the economy causing the value of the baht to fall and thus giving their expat lifestyle a boost from a more favorable exchange rate....I am not agreeing with their analysis.....but realistically those people with such narrow self interest usually don't follow politics so really they would probably answer the question with "who is Samak?"

In addidtion, the question to be answered meaningfully should be clarified in terms of practicality....for instance...many people might say that Abhisit would be better...when...infact....we really have very little idea how the country would fair with him as PM....is he just a pretty boy puppet and would he let the strings of real power guide his actions?.....if he is not externally controlleld in such an obvious way would he still be able to control the actions of the other members of parliament so that his notions are carried forward...or would the MP's simply go their own way? So....in theory I might think that Abhisit would be preferable to Samak (clearly Abhisit is one of the few politician who actually has the personna of a "democrat") but practically speaking would he be able to use his rhetoric to good effect?...I don't know....and I doubt that anyone here knows either. I think that Abhisit would gain alot of votes if he had a widely publicized verifiable power struggle within his own party and came out the victor while maintaining the moral high ground AND directly benefitting rural voters.

Chownah

Edited February 29, 2008 by chownah

[Jai Dee]

FOURTH VICTIM

Pol Gen Seripisut out and Patcharawat in

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has ordered the transfer of national police chief General Seripisut Temiyavej to be seconded at the Prime Minister's Office pending further instruction and named Seripisut's deputy General Patcharawat Wongsuwan as the acting police chief, Government House officials said on Friday.

The abrupt transfer happened a day following the return of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra who is reportedly pushing for the promotion of his brotherinlaw Lt General Preowpan Damapong.

Seripisut was promoted to his job following the ousting of Thaksin. Preowpan has been seconded from the police service to the Prime Minister's Office since the September 19 coup. He called on Thaksin on Thursday's evening before the transfer of Seripisut was released to the public.

Patcharawat is expected to work in the caretaker capacity as he would reach his retirement in September. Seripisut will also retire.

Source: The Nation - 29 February 2008

[sriracha john]

FOURTH VICTIM

Pol Gen Seripisut out and Patcharawat in

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has ordered the transfer of national police chief General Seripisut Temiyavej to be seconded at the Prime Minister's Office pending further instruction and named Seripisut's deputy General Patcharawat Wongsuwan as the acting police chief, Government House officials said on Friday.

The abrupt transfer happened a day following the return of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra who is reportedly pushing for the promotion of his brotherinlaw Lt General Preowpan Damapong.

Seripisut was promoted to his job following the ousting of Thaksin. Preowpan has been seconded from the police service to the Prime Minister's Office since the September 19 coup. He called on Thaksin on Thursday's evening before the transfer of Seripisut was released to the public.

Patcharawat is expected to work in the caretaker capacity as he would reach his retirement in September. Seripisut will also retire.

Source: The Nation - 29 February 2008

What a difference a few days can make.... no one is safe...

The Nation / Feb. 23, 2008

He said he had not thought about resigning and did not feel under pressure having to work with the People Power Party-led government.

Seripisut said he was confident that the government would not be able to sack him because he was protected under the Royal Thai Police Act.

[sriracha john]

BREAKING NEWS: National Police Chief Transferred to Inactive Post

The transfer of National Police Chief Pol Gen Seripisut Temiyavej has been confirmed. Pol Gen Seripitsut has been transferred to an inactive post at the Prime Minister's Office.

Police General Seripisut became the fourth senior official to be transferred under Samak's government.

- Thailand Outlook

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I guess the mods can close the thread on police reform which General Seripisut was spearheading and making some inroads as it's going to go nowhere now.

Oh well, back to the worst for the police.