Being Intimidated And Threatened By A Thai - How To React?

[Slip]

Where did so many people come up with the idea that every Thai man, especially those driving taxis or tuk tuks, or doing motorcycle taxi service, are such tough guys? They are just people.

Yes there is the commonly-held belief that if you have reason to fight with a Thai man you will have to fight all of his friends as well...for the most part, that is bullshit also. Several Thai men stood by and did nothing when I thumped on one of their friends (bigger than me, BTW)...that was after they stood by and did nothing when he started beating on his wife. YMMV.

And do you honestly think that every taxi driver, tuk tuk driver, or motorcycle taxi rider is so well-connected that they are willing to simply kill anyone who crosses them? Get real.

If that was the case murders would be a ten a penny.

[fuzedcon]

And do you honestly think that every taxi driver, tuk tuk driver, or motorcycle taxi rider is so well-connected that they are willing to simply kill anyone who crosses them? Get real.

Not every, but many.

They don't "kill" at a whim, but the violence employed in conflicts can be extreme. And how would you see the difference anyhow between ones that would turn violent, and others who don't?

I can't, and i have lived here half my life, and more often than not in areas where these fellas have been my neighbors. In my area they know me all, and i have no problems, but in strange areas i assume the worst, and stay the <deleted> away from potential conflicts with them. Because i know what my neighbors do when they have one. And that ain't nice.

Most motorcycle taxi drivers are from local slums, born and bred there. Because that's the most decent job they can get after a long career of doing stupid things that gets one into prison. Or do you think they do that as a career because it's such a great job?

In most queues they have to buy their shirts, have to pay money to the owner of the queue, who is locally influental, and in turn pays to the police, and others.

Motorcycle queues are one of the basic modes of stable income for police stations all over town, one of the numerically largest semi criminal organisations here, connected to, and next to the underground lottery and loansharking.

Why do you think that one of Thaksin's first heavily promoted campaigns was trying to break the power of the owners of the motorcycle taxi queues?

And did it work? <deleted> no.

Gotta throw up when i read all the <deleted> here from jonny come latelies who never left their bars, or their little houses in their wife's village, and believe that this is frigging paradise on earth because every dysfunctional numbnut can get laid here.

If you don't go out - read the statistics, and better believe them.

[Jingthing]

I personally never said this particular incident would definitely end in a murder. Odds are it won't. I thought staying cool and calm would help diffuse it naturally.

However, in my view, you have to keep some things in mind dealing with the lower urban classes in Thailand, mostly talking about males here:

they are mostly calm, but if you cross them, they are more likely to quickly turn irrationally violent than a westerner's cultural expectations are used to

they have great communication networks

they have amazing memories

if they have been in Thai prison for any length of time, and I would imagine alot of the moto taxi guys have, they have been brutalized/brutal in ways only the farangs who have been in Thai prison can imagine. In other words: consider that they don't value their life or your life as much as you do.

Here in Pattaya, crimes, especially rapes and thefts conducted by moto drivers aren't exactly uncommon.

I do think there aren't all that many cases of this kind of moto taxi violence against farangs because most farangs learn to avoid conflict with lower class Thais if they want to stay healthy. My opinion only.

Edited August 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[mgjackson69]

I know these guys come from a rough upbringing, and I am certainly not going around antagonizing them...that is the OP's job.

I just think a bit of realism needs to be included with some of the fantastic stories we have all heard.

It is pretty simple really...if you are going to go around getting yourself into shit, you surely had better be able to get yourself out.

[fuzedcon]

I know these guys come from a rough upbringing, and I am certainly not going around antagonizing them...that is the OP's job.

I just think a bit of realism needs to be included with some of the fantastic stories we have all heard.

It is pretty simple really...if you are going to go around getting yourself into shit, you surely had better be able to get yourself out.

True.

Just take the case most farang know - Patpong.

How many have got beaten to a pulp after they pissed off some of the taxi driver thugs parking there? A few years ago i saw one drunk idiot having his leg broken late at night by some tuk tuk drivers. And no - i did't interfere. Why should i spend some quality time in hospital with an idiot i don't even know? His problem, i got enough to do to take care of my mess.

And away from the bright lights of tourist Patpong things are much worse here.

Don't piss the locals off, make friends and you will be as safe as you can get in a third world place. Simple.

The OP should start fresh in a different part of town, and/or get himself a face that people like. Generally people here have a high tolerance for instable farang, but when he already gets threatened in his own neighborhood, then its time to pack.

[greg67]

How should one react when one is being intimidated (he pounding hand on your shirt in breast height) and threatened by a (masked) Thai motorbike taxi driver, with his gang on the opposite street site? Fight back, make police report, forget it...?

How about verbal abuses aimed at you?

I'd never get in a situation like that because I'm not an idiot....

If you do get in a situation like that, you probably are, and deserve whatever you get.

If you think like this you are an IDIOT.

[HASSELHOFF]

Most responses on here are just complete BS.

All you need to do is avoid him, you really want to beat someone because he beat his chest? That makes you the thug.

Thai's in general are nice people. Dont let other people to fool you to think otherwise.

[Tinkelbell]

quoted........Most motorcycle taxi drivers are from local slums, born and bred there. Because that's the most decent job they can get after a long career of doing stupid things that gets one into prison. Or do you think they do that as a career because it's such a great job?...."

..............................................................................

fuzedcon, most Thais would agree with you clearly.

I want to relate some of the the stories that had happened to three of my Thai friends. All happened at different places, different time and to different person but the culprits were three different motortaxi drivers.

Friend 'T' told me that when she chased away a bunch of mototaxi drivers who were always hang around on the side walk infront of her (girl)dormitory, the next morning, she found that somebody threw a bag of human waste right onto the glass front door.

Friend 'J' parked her new SUV a little too close to the row of the motortaxis while visiting a friend, she thought it was O.K. since it was on the public street. Half hour later when she came to her car, she found a streak long line from the front to the end of the car and one of her tire was slashed. Days later, 'J's friend learned who was the culprit from a shop owner across the street who witness the whole episode.

You can tell the own was smart to keep quiet, she knows quite well about the danger of confrontation with low class thug, they got nothing to loose.

Friend 'N' told me a horror story about her niece was kidnapped and killed by her trusted motortaxi driver. The mother of the child ( age 8) had been hiring this driver to pick up her child from school almost 2 years. Then one morning she fired him over some cash missing from her draw. That same afternoon when the mother went to school to pick up her child at the regular time. The principle became alarm since the child already been picked up (around lunch time) by the known regular driver who handed a note supposely writen by the girl mother, it says......"The father of the girl is gravely ill in the hospital, please release the girl to our driver so that he can take her to visit her father."

The girl was never seen alive again.

The police caught the perpetrator few days later. He confessed he killed the girl hours after he picked her up from school. He wants to revenge the mother, he knew the girl was an apple of the mother's eyes. He wants the mother suffer to the extreeme.

To the OP again, you should heed the words from 'fuzedcon' and 'Jingthing'.

Your situation seems like you're swimming with the sharks, better get out fast.

Not all motortaxi drivers are bad, some are decent humans, but as long as you can't tell the good from the bad, I would rather move to the new place where it has less hostile environment.

My two bahts.

[Hawkup2000]

I don´t have any experience and only been here 2 years, but I must say that no matter where I am in Bangkok I always get much better vibes from mototaxidrivers than tuktukdrivers. I had a theory that it is because have a number and always hang at their spot therefore they have to be fairy decent with the people in the neighborhood. I don´t know, maybe I am wrong.

For example, never once in 2 years a mototaxidriver have tried to fool me regarding the price, and I use mototaxi everyday regardless where I am going. Tuktukdrivers on other hand, ALWAYS try to cheat me on the price. It never fails.

[tartempion]

Thailand is one of the least violent countries I have been to from what i have experienced myself (which will of course differ to others).

You're probably right, but might change your mind when a man gets shot next table at your usual restaurant, the only place it ever happened to me was Thailand.

Also see the tread on the Chaing Mai little girl hit by a bullet two days ago and numerous farangs murdered by their wives/gf for the money.

[petitechevre]

I have to partly agree with the above poster (apart from the last sentence implying a few Thai boxing lessons will make you rock hard to deal with a motorbike taxi mob).

Despite what too many scaremongers on TV love to pound out, a confrontation very very very seldom results in death to a farang. I would put in more "verys" but you get the picture. How many Thai on Thai confrontations/arguments are there per day in this country? I've seen many, I'm not talking physical fights. I don't think that the weaker party gets followed home and popped off somehow.

As in many countries, this is how it goes: two people argue, the one who has the more education/class is more embarrassed about getting hot with a "lower" class throughout. They shout. Friends may calm them down, they may not. They storm off in their different ways looking angry and embarrassed in silence. Police may turn up if it goes on for long enough. If they fight, people around will break it up. More often than not a farang will either be alone when they get into a fight or their friends will stand by, whereas a Thai's friends will more often react in some way.

If a taxi driver, tout, motorbike driver, security guard or whoever says something very offensive to you or your wife or pushes you over running past without apologising, what are you (the visitor) meant to do about it? Do and say nothing and offer them a beer because you're shit scared of posters saying men will run out of the sidestreets and kick you in the head because you stand up to a native? Boll****. You don't have to try and knock the guy out, but you can certainly stand up to him in his face, with people watching, and tell him what you think. The chances are he'll be most embarrassed, give you a bad look, make a threat, and go away. And that's it. If the guy works outside your condo it is possible there'll be repurcussions, yes, but it's person-dependant.

I'm not referring to the OP here, I'm referring to foreigners who have innocently gone about their business and been offended beyond acceptance. For a moto driver to beat on someone's chest, there will be a reason for it, but let's not assume that it's the farang's fault because he didn't just walk away and smile from being abused.

NO THE SCARY THAIVISA THAI GANG FAIRY IS GONNA KILL YOU IF YOU DO THAT

seriously sometiems when i read this thread, i think most posters we're all beaten out of their lunch money in highschool.

The only people who get beat up by a bunch of thais is the obnoxious brit/german drunktard in pattaya or outside bars or the backpacker who pushes himself onto a girl

if you stand up tall and put your face into a bad thai's face and insure him that if he doesnt respect you, it will finish in violence(without having violence at first) you'll NEVER get jumped

[petitechevre]

And do you honestly think that every taxi driver, tuk tuk driver, or motorcycle taxi rider is so well-connected that they are willing to simply kill anyone who crosses them? Get real.

Not every, but many.

They don't "kill" at a whim, but the violence employed in conflicts can be extreme. And how would you see the difference anyhow between ones that would turn violent, and others who don't?

I can't, and i have lived here half my life, and more often than not in areas where these fellas have been my neighbors. In my area they know me all, and i have no problems, but in strange areas i assume the worst, and stay the <deleted> away from potential conflicts with them. Because i know what my neighbors do when they have one. And that ain't nice.

Most motorcycle taxi drivers are from local slums, born and bred there. Because that's the most decent job they can get after a long career of doing stupid things that gets one into prison. Or do you think they do that as a career because it's such a great job?

In most queues they have to buy their shirts, have to pay money to the owner of the queue, who is locally influental, and in turn pays to the police, and others.

Motorcycle queues are one of the basic modes of stable income for police stations all over town, one of the numerically largest semi criminal organisations here, connected to, and next to the underground lottery and loansharking.

Why do you think that one of Thaksin's first heavily promoted campaigns was trying to break the power of the owners of the motorcycle taxi queues?

And did it work? <deleted> no.

Gotta throw up when i read all the <deleted> here from jonny come latelies who never left their bars, or their little houses in their wife's village, and believe that this is frigging paradise on earth because every dysfunctional numbnut can get laid here.

If you don't go out - read the statistics, and better believe them.

are you crazy?

In bangkok the only motorcycle taxis that were street trash <deleted> were in total tourist areas like suk soi 11/4 and patpong

outside of that, motorcycle taxis for the most part were normal thais.. only racist asshol_e i ofund outside of those areas was one around sathorn soi 13

rest were nice smiling people, and i used motorcycle taxis daily for a while.. <deleted> even on soi 22 sukhumvit, which i used everyday 3 times for 2months. all fo them were super nice and in no way looked like scum tuktuk drivers. they never even asked me for more than 10baht for the whole street+ small soi.

oh i forgot the next soi on sukhumvit full of indians, that one had a scum tout too. but hey.. hes probably used to dealing with those racists indians that hate everyone so i dont blame him.

[fuzedcon]

are you crazy?

So, you judge people here because they are smiling. Very astute. Really. And you know all that because you used them for two months here, and a some times there. I gotta bow to your knowledge.

I only have lived 20 years with them sort of people as my neighbors, and not in Sukhumvit. I have see them fight, get pissed, sell drugs, go to jail and come out again for all sorts of charges ranging from selling pills to murder.

If you take the stats, that say that maybe 60% to 70% of all Thais are from low to lowest income groups, and all that comes along with that lifestyle - yeah, then they are "normal" Thais. But that sort of "normal" has nothing whatsoever to do with western "normality", where "normal" people, according to all demographics, are middle class.

So, no, i am not crazy. I just guess i have some experiences that you haven't. And i can read stats and see the news.

[Samuian]

........if you stand up tall and put your face into a bad thai's face and insure him that if he doesnt respect you, it will finish in violence(without having violence at first) you'll NEVER get jumped

are these extracts from a new rambo vs. thai kick boxer hollywood movie?

we do live in a basically non-confrontational society here - but confront the wrong guy, at the wrong time, at the wrong place, in front of the wrong people... you will be history, unless there stands a

"platoon of navy seals" behind you!

they will not give up, unless they paid you back (klaeng) or unless you decided to go the whole nine yards mate!

Remember that!

[gymshark]

Have any of the people who tout this "Thai Vengeance" been in a confrontation here? Thai's are no more or less vengeful than any other race. Like all confrontation you have 2 choices, put up or shut up, it's that simple. The people on here bleating on about how Thai's will get you back in the end are scaremongering. In my experiences when I walked up and questioned taxi drivers (both occasions) about rude comments they backed down a treat, the only one that led to violence was with a gobby aussie on sukhumvit. Don't make the locals here out to be something they generally are not.

[Ulysses G.]

At one time, we had a bar next door full of heroin selling, teenage gang scumbags who had not paid rent for two years. They did not like me and let me know it and would threaten me every now and again, but we never had any real confrontations. They were finally forced to move out and we took over the bar to expand our bookshop and I thought that they might come back to settle scores, but they never bothered.

I know that they were capable of violence because they had several gang fights on our small soi which is not used to such things, but when push came to shove, they were reasonable enough to drop old scores. Thais are pretty much like anybody else.

[Samuian]

Have any of the people who tout this "Thai Vengeance" been in a confrontation here? Thai's are no more or less vengeful than any other race. Like all confrontation you have 2 choices, put up or shut up, it's that simple. The people on here bleating on about how Thai's will get you back in the end are scaremongering.

Ah...well tell us..are you talking about your very own experience?

Besides is this a Cost Rica Forum?

What does it need, knife point, gun point, Baseball bat, which version would satisfy your needs?

O.K. make it universal, you made the point already: "you have 2 choices, put up or shut up!" if you have that choice!

[gymshark]

Have any of the people who tout this "Thai Vengeance" been in a confrontation here? Thai's are no more or less vengeful than any other race. Like all confrontation you have 2 choices, put up or shut up, it's that simple. The people on here bleating on about how Thai's will get you back in the end are scaremongering.

Ah...well tell us..are you talking about your very own experience?

Besides is this a Cost Rica Forum?

What does it need, knife point, gun point, Baseball bat, which version would satisfy your needs?

O.K. make it universal, you made the point already: "you have 2 choices, put up or shut up!" if you have that choice!

So you say that Thai's are more vengefull than other races? Or did I misunderstand? I might have cos I missed the Costa Rica bit entirely.

[Choscura]

the quickest way to get your point across to a motorbike taxi driver (or tuktuk/songthaew/etc) is to ask him if he thinks you're a retard. thai culture normally won't let them say 'yes' to this. btw, the thai word for 'retard' is 'banya awn' <soft knowledge>.

most of the time, the fact that I'm 2-3 times the size of the average thai keeps the situations defused, but if all else fails, do everything in your power to make his friends think he/she's being unreasonable. act insulted, but act like you're not going to start s|-|][t with him, so why should he with you? you're both reasonable people, after all...

oh, and if he's got a weapon- even if you don't think he'll use it- just do whatever you have to to get out of there in one piece. for all people unfamiliar with dealing with guns, you *always* assume that it's loaded, because thats the worst case, and from there you can only get lucky if things are different than you think.

[fuzedcon]

So you say that Thai's are more vengefull than other races? Or did I misunderstand?

It has nothing to do with race.

It's all about the environment.

And face it - Thailand is a country in which patronage is more important than achievement, familiy and peer group is the only integrating factor, law enforcement and justice system is so corrupt that people often have no other choice than taking matters into their own hand. There's an unescapable culture of violence, hidden behind a thin layer of smiles.

Sooner or later you will have a problem here, or somebody close to you. And that will be an eye opener. It's just a matter of time.

[papajohn]

Thanks Gymshark, you summerize in one sentence " Don't make the locals here out to be something they generally are not". Well said !

If we farange come here to take advantage of the country and people

and expect to be admired, then we are going to have a hard time.

The Thai people are very adept to sense attitude from farange.

The key to getting along is respect, you give and you get. Simple !

Smile a Sawadee Kup, good morning, and you are sure to get one back. The locals are living a day to day existance. There are no social

safety nets as we faranges enjoy. I admire these people for their perserverance to get up each day and do what they do to make a living. Walk in their shoes for a day or two. I hope this helps the OP

adjust and understand the locals better. They are people with families

and children they want to have a better life too. Chok Dee.

[Jingthing]

Thailand appears to the untrained eye to be very chaotic and free and easy. It ain't. There is a deep power structure to the apparent madness.

[Ulysses G.]

for all people unfamiliar with dealing with guns, you *always* assume that it's loaded

When I see a gun, it never even occurs to me that it would be anything other than loaded!

Edited August 23, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[BigSnake]

Make a police report, and MAYBE just maybe they will get the THUGs off the streets. . Fighting back is NOT a good choice unless you have some kick butt skills like Steven Seagal or the late Bruce Lee and can take three or four the Thugs down with easy. Best choice Police Report.

[MiG16]

Ive had to delete a couple of posts and comments in reply to those posts

gonna ask you all to play nicely.

no flaming, no personal attacks.

unless you are looking for a longer weekend (from TV).

[tartempion]

Have any of the people who tout this "Thai Vengeance" been in a confrontation here? Thai's are no more or less vengeful than any other race. Like all confrontation you have 2 choices, put up or shut up, it's that simple.

Well yes again (and getting tired of repeating)

GF accused neighbour wife of stealing in our home (and this accusation did not come out of the blue)

They had some words on the street because of night noise the neighbours made (again) and the stealing accusation was shouted out loudly. The husband came out and became very aggressive to the gf. He went back in and came out with a huge knife. People had to stop him and gf ran home to barricade herself. The man went crazy and crushed beer bottles in front of our door. At night we called the police for protection. I don't think this cooled the man down, on the contrary.

We were adviced to get GF's family over to show our "power" but they live 1000km away.

Next day we moved out.

Not we lived there for 4 years and had good relationship with the neighbours until the stealing became apparent.

This in no way involved this farang until the madman came up to me with a broken bottle in his hands, probably not to chat me up

We also witnessed a young couple on a motorbike to be attacked by a gang of at least 10 motorbikes From a technical school.

They fled away when we reached the spot, leaving the couple for dead.

You will argue it happens in LA and Liverpool.

Then a man got shot at the restaurant (if you can call that place as such) we were eating at almost every night.

I don't live near LA nor Liverpool, but Thung Waua Laen ain't no better

[bkkjames]

Ive had to delete a couple of posts and comments in reply to those posts

gonna ask you all to play nicely.

no flaming, no personal attacks.

unless you are looking for a longer weekend (from TV).

jeez, I would hate to see how MIG feels now that Arsenal lost on the weekend.

[John_Rambo]

When the going gets tough, some guys run away. Others stand up for themselves. It wouldn't make much difference what country they were in. All of this 'better back down from the Thais because they will go crazy on you beyond anything you've ever known' is just a cover story for the weak. If you skulk around the place exuding weakness, guess what happens? People will pick on you. If they think you're strong, they're less likely to mess with you. It's unfortunate, but it's the way of the world. Just to make it clear, the guys who always back down and run away when confronted, nobody thinks they're strong.

[fuzedcon]

If you skulk around the place exuding weakness, guess what happens? People will pick on you. If they think you're strong, they're less likely to mess with you.

And if you run around with an attitude, some nut will take that as a challenge, and &lt;deleted&gt; you up just because he thinks he's stronger than you, even if it means having a few mates to help him. It ain't about fair - it's about winning.

If you have no mates here, no social network - you have lost before it started.

And then there's the question how far you are willing to go - in some situations here you may have to go further than you want to, including risking a life sentence. I know plenty of Thais who risk that, and some who got a life sentence for showing everybody that they are strong.

Are you willing to go that far?

Better is knowing how to avoid trouble, and when you run into it, knowing how to solve without getting killed, without getting into prison, without loosing face. But that means that you gotta use that stuff between your ears to think.

Choose you battles, and choose them wisely.

Edited August 25, 2008 by fuzedcon

[bassmaster50]

A guy who like me retired from NYPD and has been coming to Thailand for 25 years told me once poor urban Thai guys here are like poor urban black guys in US and I believe that is true. They are largely uneducated but streetwise and prone to violence. If some white guy gets in a street brawl with some black guy in a poor black neighborhood in NY, I know how this will turn out and so does anyone who lives there. Much the same as it would if same white guy gets in fight with Thai here. In fact probably any poor city neighborhood where someone from one ethnic group is fighting with someone from the majority ethnic group. It is good to be macho and talk tough but if you want to stay healthy and alive use common sense. Any beef with a taxi driver is probably about 10 or 20 baht or something like that. Is this worth the hassle? As far as these guys who are beating the hel_l out of all these Thais, or so they say, what the hel_l are they doing? I have been here two years and never had a problem with anyone, Thai or farang. It is possible that it is due at least partly to my physical size and appearance, but I think moreso it is because I never have found the need to get into a confrontation. "Tough" guys will give you advice here that will get you killed or at least injured. Just walk away. Most of the truly tough guys will tell you the same thing.