Some time ago there was a discussion about the large increases in the size of Europe's Muslim populations, and the effect it was having on the Euro countries.

Little things cropped up, such as prison guards in the UK not being allowed to wear (King George's Cross is it ?) pins/patches, because it was offensive to Muslim prisoners (it reminds them of the Crusades apparently).

At the time (or even before) a "joke" was going around the internet. Apparently some Euro politician was quipped as saying that there was a joking question running through the Euro parliament's about which Euro country would be the first to introduce/adopt Sharia law.

Well, it appears the UK has just become that first country:

Revealed: UK's first official sharia courts

"ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court."

There are people trying to do the same in Canada as well. In Canada, there are Jewish and Aboriginal ("First Nations") courts that are allowed to deal with some cases, but what ever the decision of those courts are, they can not over-rule/super-cede the Canadian Constitution or Charter of Human Rights.

There have been many criticisms over the use of these religious/cultural based systems, especially when results appear to be discriminatory or far more lenient than would normally be the case. The article above mentions one such case:

"There are concerns that women who agree to go to tribunal courts are getting worse deals because Islamic law favours men.

Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.

The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts."

Remember that one of the wives of the previous King of Saudi Arabia flew to London and filed for divorce (in a normal court), as she knew she would get a better result than if she tried to do it through a Muslim court."

To me, this matter raises a couple of serious issues (I'm not from the UK, but the issues apply to most western countries).

One. In Western societies that have various laws/bills/charters promoting Equality/Rights/Anti-discrimination/etc, how do they reconcile those laws when, for example, Sharia law is obviously discriminatory towards women ?

What happens if a woman (say the ones mentioned above) took their case to a regular UK court ? Whose law takes precedent, Sharia or UK law ?

Two. The separation of Church and State. The "State" makes the laws and enforces them. But the Sharia (and similar systems) are religious-based. In effect, the State now becomes responsible (in certain cases) for enforcing religious law !

Should not the Christians start lobbying for their own courts, based on biblical law (imagine the first case where some one tries to argue, literally, for an "eye for an eye" judgement) !

Is this not a step backward in societies progress ? Most of Europe evolved from systems that were dominated by religion (in the "Dark and Middle Ages" and even before). Back in the times when Inquisitions and Crusades were the order of the day).

Is this the beginning of a slippery slope that could possibly lead to western nations reverting to religion-controlled governments, ala Iran and others ?

Three. I'm reminded of the old saying, "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile". How long before these religious based court systems start demanding more control over their communities ? The right to process more and different kinds of offences (like adultery, theft, murder, etc) using their religion(s) as the basis for trial and punishment.

The right to create and enforce their own laws, based on their religion ? (Or perhaps, create their own laws that the "State" would then be obliged to enforce).

Now that this has been accepted in the UK, how long before other Euro govts (like France and Germany) are pressured into adopting similar systems ?

//spelling edit !

I wouldn't be surprised if a fair number of Muslims in the UK went there to escape little things like Sharia Law, I doubt they will be happy about this.

And I agree with the give an inch take a mile statement. This is far from stopping at this point.

Now this is a sign of the times!

It is a very disturbing sign of the times.

Australia has Aboriginal courts that make judgements for indigenous people who in many cases do not live according to traditional tribal laws in their daily life. In years past the courts gave judgements with punishments such as spearing - where a spear is thrust through a man's thigh. The pain and time it took to heal was deemed sufficient to make him think about doing it again. White courts then forbade the punishments as being barbaric but didn't have an alternative option for punishment.

In my opinion if you wish to live under Aboriginal law then you must live in a traditional manner. If you wish to live under Jewish Law or Muslim Law or Law of the Purple Fairy Queen then pick a country that has those laws in place and live there.

I sometimes wonder when Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan etc will create similar laws for Non Muslims who choose to live there and don't follow that particular religious path.

CB

I sometimes wonder when Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan etc will create similar laws for Non Muslims who choose to live there and don't follow that particular religious path.

CB

Well, I think a snowball has a better chance of surviving in a hellish Inferno on a particularly hot day, than any of those places ever granting any privileges to other religious faiths.

To me, it's just another example of how one group, that seems to bear the label of being racist and discriminatory more than any other, once again bends over backwards to accommodate those that would label them.

Which begs the question. How many times do you have to turn the other cheek, before resorting to "and eye for an eye" ?

These courts aren't courts in the strict legal sense. They are arbitration tribunals set up under the Arbitration Act 1996 and their rulings are only legally enforceable if both parties agree to be bound by the tribunal's decision.

You also missed a bit out of the Times article:

"Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act. "

Sauce, goose, gander and all that.

Firm believer that laws are made by a society for the benefit of the whole of that society. No problem with a multi-cultural Britain, but the laws of Britain are tried and tested and represent the standrds set by the country as a whole. Minority rule is wrong in evey sense. If you wish to live in a society, obey their laws or ammend them by democratic means not by half baked racist bullishit................When in Rome

( Happy to stand for the King, totally respect Thai Law when in Thailand )

( Happy to stand for the King, totally respect Thai Law when in Thailand )

That's the difference between us, including the majority of Muslims, and the fanatics. We go to other countries and respect the local laws and traditions (well within the spirit anyway). These people hunt out the soft spot in our society and then exploit it to their benefit. Talking about benefits I wonder what the Koran has to say about accepting money from infidels? Maybe the Bank of England should start using pig's blood in the ink dyes.

If they are, as endure says, just tribunals then I have no problem provided they don't start meddling with criminal cases that absolutely must be dealt according to British law and to hel_l with the Koran.

What is the UK coming to

I sometimes wonder when Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan etc will create similar laws for Non Muslims who choose to live there and don't follow that particular religious path.

Dont forget to mention to Dubai, then we could drink beer and have sex on the beach and not be bothered

These courts aren't courts in the strict legal sense. They are arbitration tribunals set up under the Arbitration Act 1996 and their rulings are only legally enforceable if both parties agree to be bound by the tribunal's decision.

You also missed a bit out of the Times article:

"Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act. "

Sauce, goose, gander and all that.

I did note that it was mentioned that they had been using this "loop hole" since last year, but from the way the article reads, the UK government has now made it official (and enforceable), meaning that even if one party or the other doesn't agree to the decision, it can still be enforced as in a normal court.

And yes, good for the goose, good for the gander. But that was meant to imply that all are equal (men and women).

But this is more like good for the duck, good for the swan, good for the goose, good for (insert favourite water fowl here). In a system that preaches equality for all, regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation etc, to create sub-sytems that cater to specific interest groups (in this case, religious), defeats the whole idea equality for all.

For example, in the article (and my OP) there was the mention of an inheritance case:

"The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts."

Not much equality there. Now in this case, I would imagine that all parties agreed to abide by the tribunals rulings (though I wonder how much say the women actually had).

If I read the times article right, these same panels/tribunals/courts can now make binding decisions, even if the women (or whoever) object.

Is that fair (and equal), under British law ?

Take divorce for example. From what I've read regarding Sharia, a man must simply pronounce, in public, "I Divorce You" three times and it's official.

But a women has to get permission from (4 ?) male relatives before she can apply for divorce. (Perhaps another reason the wife of the former Saudi King decided to file for divorce in London instead of Riyahd ?)

Again, in Sharia, testimony by a woman is viewed as half (or a quarter) of the value of a man's testimony. I recall reading about a case of (alleged) gang rape (in Pakistan I think it was). The woman wasn't allowed to file rape charges against her attackers, unless she could get 4 males to testify that they had in fact raped her.

But it only takes 1 man to accuse a woman of adultery, and unless she can come up with 4 male witnesses to testify in her defense, she's guilty.

This story made big headlines for awhile, as she was actually sentenced to death (by stoning ?) for adultery. Then her conviction was over turned, then reinstated. It drug on for awhile and I don't recall how it ended.

I would presume that such a case in the UK would be tried before a normal (UK) court. But the principles of equality (in Sharia) remain the same, regardless of the severity of the crime.

I'm afraid that its to late already.

No Sharia law yet in Belgium, however certain suburbs in Brussels and all other major cities are off limits to the police, non-muslims, ambulances etc.. Girls without the shawl molested, abused and sometimes raped.

Honor killings; all schools have to give halal meals (and only halal meals) whether you are muslim or not etc. etc.

The list goes on and on.

All thanks to the multiculi crowd of which surprisingly the church is the biggest culprit.

OK glad to have this one of my chest.

onzestan

'm afraid that its to late already.

No just legalizing Sharia law yet in Belgium England, however most certain suburbs in Brussels London, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Bradford and all other major cities are off limits to the police, non-muslims, ambulances, whites etc.. Girls without the shawl molested, abused and sometimes oftenly raped. White english youths do not even stand a chance in these areas.

Honor killings; all schools have to give halal meals (and only halal meals) whether you are muslim or not etc. etc.

The list goes on and on. -- and on and on and on

All thanks to the multiculi crowd of which surprisingly the church is the biggest culprit.

OK glad to have this one of my chest, and me

'm afraid that its to late already.

No just legalizing Sharia law yet in Belgium England, however most certain suburbs in Brussels London, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Bradford and all other major cities are off limits to the police, non-muslims, ambulances, whites etc.. Girls without the shawl molested, abused and sometimes oftenly raped. White english youths do not even stand a chance in these areas.

Honor killings; all schools have to give halal meals (and only halal meals) whether you are muslim or not etc. etc.

The list goes on and on. -- and on and on and on

All thanks to the multiculi crowd of which surprisingly the church is the biggest culprit.

OK glad to have this one of my chest, and me

Do you have any evidence of these rather bizarre assertions? Newcastle has a Muslim population of just over 1%. It hardly seems likely that most Newcastle suburbs are off limits with such a Muslim minority. Nor have I heard that all schools have to give only halal meals. I'm sure the Church of England school down the road from me would have made a bit of a song and dance about before now. 'Honor killings' are prosecuted as murder - the same as any other murder. Prosecutions are brought for rape regardless of the accused's religion.

Do you actually know any Muslims? I had a conversation a little like this on another forum a while ago. I asked the guy I was talking to (who had views similar to yours) whether he knew or had spoken to any Muslims. His answer was he didn't know any Muslims but that there was a bloke at work who looked as though he was from the Middle East who may have been a Muslim.

There are undoubtedly legitimate concerns about Islam in the UK but gross exaggeration and hyperbole are unlikely to allay them. All they do is fire up the easily influenced and alienate the vast majority of decent ordinary Muslims who live in the UK.

I was brought up in Wolverhampton. Thus even all those years ago I know many Muslims ( knew ), like all people some, good some bad. However, the above indicates the vast number of them are good and indeed ordinary. Probably true, yet the maniacs that exist in small numbers within their midst are not made by peer pressure to change their ways, far from it and i'm sorry for the liberals out there the majority of the good and ordinary, remain remarkably silent when lunatic counsils ask proud English people to lower their flag from church steeples in the same towns where the green flag of mohammed flies with impunity.

I am not a right wing supporter, however, I find myself tested on more and more occasions. A good friend of mine came from a very rough area of town where his family had lived in the same house on the same street for generations. When the big day arrived for him to take his little son for registration at the local school, he and his father had attended as boys, he pitched up to be turned away at the door. When he asked what the #$#%^ was going on, he was informed that the local authority had a policy where racial groups would each have an allocation for placement. The playground was full of happy kids of every creed running around having fun, not a problem thought my pal as he ( at this moment ) was not a bigot, so just asked for his lad to be included in the " Caucasian " quota. " Sorry" came the reply "full".

looking round at the increasing number of local frustrated " white " parents in the same boat, he asked "well if my kid and the kids of these families who live here are not in, who the hel_l is ". The answer sadly was Albanians. Deemed Caucasian by race and given priority by the council. When asking where the hel_l he was to send his kid? Shrugs all round with perhaps a school in the next area or move !!!

Not a hint of support from the local Asian families who he had grown up with, their kids safely in the school filling the East Asian quota. Point of all this being, please do not harp on about the good, quiet SILENT majority of muslim families. Yes they are there, enjoying the fantastic benefits brought on by liberal guilt trips, but silent they indeed are.

This almost inverse racism now being employed in the UK will lead to disaster. Our guests are still in the minority. They are now at the top of the majority of the lists receiving aid from the government. As justified as this may be in some but certainly not all cases, the backlash from disgruntled lower middle class majority types may be just round the corner, if the economics of the country continues it's head-long trip to disaster. Treat ALL people fairly. Racism is not confined to the majority no matter how many times the sociologists employed in the dole office will tell you it is.

'm afraid that its to late already.

No just legalizing Sharia law yet in Belgium England, however most certain suburbs in Brussels London, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Bradford and all other major cities are off limits to the police, non-muslims, ambulances, whites etc.. Girls without the shawl molested, abused and sometimes oftenly raped. White english youths do not even stand a chance in these areas.

Honor killings; all schools have to give halal meals (and only halal meals) whether you are muslim or not etc. etc.

The list goes on and on. -- and on and on and on

All thanks to the multiculi crowd of which surprisingly the church is the biggest culprit.

OK glad to have this one of my chest, and me

Do you have any evidence of these rather bizarre assertions? Newcastle has a Muslim population of just over 1%. It hardly seems likely that most Newcastle suburbs are off limits with such a Muslim minority. Nor have I heard that all schools have to give only halal meals. I'm sure the Church of England school down the road from me would have made a bit of a song and dance about before now. 'Honor killings' are prosecuted as murder - the same as any other murder. Prosecutions are brought for rape regardless of the accused's religion.

Do you actually know any Muslims? I had a conversation a little like this on another forum a while ago. I asked the guy I was talking to (who had views similar to yours) whether he knew or had spoken to any Muslims. His answer was he didn't know any Muslims but that there was a bloke at work who looked as though he was from the Middle East who may have been a Muslim.

There are undoubtedly legitimate concerns about Islam in the UK but gross exaggeration and hyperbole are unlikely to allay them. All they do is fire up the easily influenced and alienate the vast majority of decent ordinary Muslims who live in the UK.

Nice post endure. I live in Liverpool and we have no 'off limits' or segregated areas. I live in a mixed race area, we have on our street Liverpudlians, Irish (not just me!) Sri Lankan, Indian, Chinese and Nigerian. We are all the best of friends living in a wonderful area. Scare mongering doesn't help.

Do you have any evidence of these rather bizarre assertions? Newcastle has a Muslim population of just over 1%. It hardly seems likely that most Newcastle suburbs are off limits with such a Muslim minority. Nor have I heard that all schools have to give only halal meals. I'm sure the Church of England school down the road from me would have made a bit of a song and dance about before now. 'Honor killings' are prosecuted as murder - the same as any other murder. Prosecutions are brought for rape regardless of the accused's religion.

Do you actually know any Muslims? I had a conversation a little like this on another forum a while ago. I asked the guy I was talking to (who had views similar to yours) whether he knew or had spoken to any Muslims. His answer was he didn't know any Muslims but that there was a bloke at work who looked as though he was from the Middle East who may have been a Muslim.

There are undoubtedly legitimate concerns about Islam in the UK but gross exaggeration and hyperbole are unlikely to allay them. All they do is fire up the easily influenced and alienate the vast majority of decent ordinary Muslims who live in the UK.

I am surprised by your reaction, where did I inform you that I don't have any direct experience with muslims?

Next time when you're in Belgium, feel free to visit the suburbs of Anderlecht, Schaerbeek or Quartier Leopold in Brussels,

Borgerhout in Antwerp etc.etc. and I hope you come out alive and well.

The 4 year old daughter of a niece of mine was raped and murdered by 2 of these lowlifes, and guess what ? no remorse whatsoever because their religion allowed them to do that to infidels.

Furthermore what's wrong with showing a bit of gratitude towards the country that accepted them, fed them, housed them and nurtured them by abiding to the laws of that country.

I have a Thai wife since 18 years, every time I take her with me to Belgium I have to apply for a visa for her, which granted is free and given quit easily but only for short periods of time and for a maximum of 6 months per calendar year. However a Belgian Maroccan can go to Marocco, marry a local girl and bring her and her immediate family back to Belgium where they are immediately entered as Belgian citizens with all the social benefits.

Aaaagh enough of this.

cheers

onzestan

I am surprised by your reaction, where did I inform you that I don't have any direct experience with muslims?

cheers

onzestan

Slow down onzestan !

In all fairness, I believe endure was responding to what boater posted (post #12). You'll notice that boater took your post and edited/modified it somewhat so it looked like it was also referring to England.

Note that endure made reference to Newcastle and the Church of England, but no mention of Belgium in his response.

jai yen yen !!

I am surprised by your reaction, where did I inform you that I don't have any direct experience with muslims?

cheers

onzestan

Slow down onzestan !

In all fairness, I believe endure was responding to what boater posted (post #12). You'll notice that boater took your post and edited/modified it somewhat so it looked like it was also referring to England.

Note that endure made reference to Newcastle and the Church of England, but no mention of Belgium in his response.

jai yen yen !!

Yeah OK jai yen yen, not good for my blood pressure anyway, thanks!!!

onzestan

Bedlam......................Lovely, debate, disagreement..........Not a problem.

That's correct - I was commenting on Boater's post rather than onzestan's.

That's correct - I was commenting on Boater's post rather than onzestan's.

I'm sorry !!!!

misunderstanding from my part.

onzestan

I was brought up in Wolverhampton. Thus even all those years ago I know many Muslims ( knew ), like all people some, good some bad. However, the above indicates the vast number of them are good and indeed ordinary. Probably true, yet the maniacs that exist in small numbers within their midst are not made by peer pressure to change their ways, far from it and i'm sorry for the liberals out there the majority of the good and ordinary, remain remarkably silent when lunatic counsils ask proud English people to lower their flag from church steeples in the same towns where the green flag of mohammed flies with impunity.

I am not a right wing supporter, however, I find myself tested on more and more occasions. A good friend of mine came from a very rough area of town where his family had lived in the same house on the same street for generations. When the big day arrived for him to take his little son for registration at the local school, he and his father had attended as boys, he pitched up to be turned away at the door. When he asked what the #$#%^ was going on, he was informed that the local authority had a policy where racial groups would each have an allocation for placement. The playground was full of happy kids of every creed running around having fun, not a problem thought my pal as he ( at this moment ) was not a bigot, so just asked for his lad to be included in the " Caucasian " quota. " Sorry" came the reply "full".

looking round at the increasing number of local frustrated " white " parents in the same boat, he asked "well if my kid and the kids of these families who live here are not in, who the hel_l is ". The answer sadly was Albanians. Deemed Caucasian by race and given priority by the council. When asking where the hel_l he was to send his kid? Shrugs all round with perhaps a school in the next area or move !!!

Not a hint of support from the local Asian families who he had grown up with, their kids safely in the school filling the East Asian quota. Point of all this being, please do not harp on about the good, quiet SILENT majority of Muslim families. Yes they are there, enjoying the fantastic benefits brought on by liberal guilt trips, but silent they indeed are.

This almost inverse racism now being employed in the UK will lead to disaster. Our guests are still in the minority. They are now at the top of the majority of the lists receiving aid from the government. As justified as this may be in some but certainly not all cases, the backlash from disgruntled lower middle class majority types may be just round the corner, if the economics of the country continues it's head-long trip to disaster. Treat ALL people fairly. Racism is not confined to the majority no matter how many times the sociologists employed in the dole office will tell you it is.

I'm sorry but I don't see how the poor allocation of school places can be laid at the foot of any one but the local authority. Your conflation of 'Asian families' and 'muslim families' in the same sentence overlooks the fact that Asians in the UK may be Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist rather than Muslim. Most of them aren't 'guests'. They're British citizens. (If you want to blame anyone for that, blame the Victorians). They were born here and hold British passports. They have as much right to live here as you and I. They pay the same taxes. The vast majority of them are law abiding citizens. Many of their elders arrived in the UK without a pot to piss in and by dint of hard work made themselves wealthy. As an aside I'd be interested to know how our American cousins view their fellow Muslim citizens. Are you as frightened of them as some here in the UK seem to be or do you welcome them as fellow Americans?

That's correct - I was commenting on Boater's post rather than onzestan's.

I'm sorry !!!!

misunderstanding from my part.

Mai ben rai

I was brought up in Wolverhampton. Thus even all those years ago I know many Muslims ( knew ), like all people some, good some bad. However, the above indicates the vast number of them are good and indeed ordinary. Probably true, yet the maniacs that exist in small numbers within their midst are not made by peer pressure to change their ways, far from it and i'm sorry for the liberals out there the majority of the good and ordinary, remain remarkably silent when lunatic counsils ask proud English people to lower their flag from church steeples in the same towns where the green flag of mohammed flies with impunity.

I am not a right wing supporter, however, I find myself tested on more and more occasions. A good friend of mine came from a very rough area of town where his family had lived in the same house on the same street for generations. When the big day arrived for him to take his little son for registration at the local school, he and his father had attended as boys, he pitched up to be turned away at the door. When he asked what the #$#%^ was going on, he was informed that the local authority had a policy where racial groups would each have an allocation for placement. The playground was full of happy kids of every creed running around having fun, not a problem thought my pal as he ( at this moment ) was not a bigot, so just asked for his lad to be included in the " Caucasian " quota. " Sorry" came the reply "full".

looking round at the increasing number of local frustrated " white " parents in the same boat, he asked "well if my kid and the kids of these families who live here are not in, who the hel_l is ". The answer sadly was Albanians. Deemed Caucasian by race and given priority by the council. When asking where the hel_l he was to send his kid? Shrugs all round with perhaps a school in the next area or move !!!

Not a hint of support from the local Asian families who he had grown up with, their kids safely in the school filling the East Asian quota. Point of all this being, please do not harp on about the good, quiet SILENT majority of Muslim families. Yes they are there, enjoying the fantastic benefits brought on by liberal guilt trips, but silent they indeed are.

This almost inverse racism now being employed in the UK will lead to disaster. Our guests are still in the minority. They are now at the top of the majority of the lists receiving aid from the government. As justified as this may be in some but certainly not all cases, the backlash from disgruntled lower middle class majority types may be just round the corner, if the economics of the country continues it's head-long trip to disaster. Treat ALL people fairly. Racism is not confined to the majority no matter how many times the sociologists employed in the dole office will tell you it is.

I'm sorry but I don't see how the poor allocation of school places can be laid at the foot of any one but the local authority. Your conflation of 'Asian families' and 'muslim families' in the same sentence overlooks the fact that Asians in the UK may be Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist rather than Muslim. Most of them aren't 'guests'. They're British citizens. (If you want to blame anyone for that, blame the Victorians). They were born here and hold British passports. They have as much right to live here as you and I. They pay the same taxes. The vast majority of them are law abiding citizens. Many of their elders arrived in the UK without a pot to piss in and by dint of hard work made themselves wealthy. As an aside I'd be interested to know how our American cousins view their fellow Muslim citizens. Are you as frightened of them as some here in the UK seem to be or do you welcome them as fellow Americans?

Totally agree with you. They DO have the same rights as everyone else, however, with these rights come the same responsibilities to stand up for the common man of which ever race or creed. Not sure of your personal experiences, but from mine and families I have known since birth, the silent minority are happy to eat the newly offered liberal cake to ease their purported suffering, but extremely slow to offer a bite to the now sadly commom indiginous underclass

I

Borgerhout in Antwerp etc.etc. and I hope you come out alive and well.

The 4 year old daughter of a niece of mine was raped and murdered by 2 of these lowlifes, and guess what ? no remorse whatsoever because their religion allowed them to do that to infidels.

cheers

onzestan

Interesting post Onzestan, since you know alot about Muslim affairs/Sharia law, then you

you would certainly know that 4 year old girls are not required to cover themselves, only girls that are beginning puberty. So why would a 4 year be raped by these guys, sans remorse?

I sometimes wonder when Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Indonesia, Afghanistan etc will create similar laws for Non Muslims who choose to live there and don't follow that particular religious path.

Malaysia has separate laws for non Muslims, while Sharia is applied to Muslims

however, this does not mean it doesnt create problems. in particular are the cases relating to inter-marriages, often there are cases where one partner in the mixed marriage take the children and make them muslims without consent of the other partner,

but because the child has already been made a muslim, he/she right away falls under Sharia jurisdiction.

another high profile case in 2007 I think, was when a mountaineer died (previously known to be Hindu), his body was brought back to country, and the Muslim authorities said he had converted. the wife tried to appeal but to no avail (cos she didnt have access to Sharia court, being a hindu), and the secular court wouldnt act on her case, citing her husband is a Muslim and hence his case falls under Sharia court. (it was regarding his burial/funeral - the wife wanted a cremation)

something along that line, thats what I remember of the story.

various other complications like that will arise with the dual system.

I dont know what the solution is......

there was/is talk that some factions want Sharia also for the 3 southern provinces of Thailand.......

Many dabbs now accept that multiculturalism (the catchcry of the 70s and 80s) is problematic. A pity that the issues multiculturalism bring were not identified by those of our (leftist/liberal) forefathers who, as with many 'noisy' minorities, had far too much political influence.

If you want to live in a foreign country, you need to fit in (not the other way around). It really is that simple. But try to convince a liberal of that. Brick wall.

'm afraid that its to late already.

No just legalizing Sharia law yet in Belgium England, however most certain suburbs in Brussels London, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Bradford and all other major cities are off limits to the police, non-muslims, ambulances, whites etc.. Girls without the shawl molested, abused and sometimes oftenly raped. White english youths do not even stand a chance in these areas.

Honor killings; all schools have to give halal meals (and only halal meals) whether you are muslim or not etc. etc.

The list goes on and on. -- and on and on and on

All thanks to the multiculi crowd of which surprisingly the church is the biggest culprit.

OK glad to have this one of my chest, and me

Do you have any evidence of these rather bizarre assertions? Newcastle has a Muslim population of just over 1%. It hardly seems likely that most Newcastle suburbs are off limits with such a Muslim minority. Nor have I heard that all schools have to give only halal meals. I'm sure the Church of England school down the road from me would have made a bit of a song and dance about before now. 'Honor killings' are prosecuted as murder - the same as any other murder. Prosecutions are brought for rape regardless of the accused's religion.

Do you actually know any Muslims? I had a conversation a little like this on another forum a while ago. I asked the guy I was talking to (who had views similar to yours) whether he knew or had spoken to any Muslims. His answer was he didn't know any Muslims but that there was a bloke at work who looked as though he was from the Middle East who may have been a Muslim.

There are undoubtedly legitimate concerns about Islam in the UK but gross exaggeration and hyperbole are unlikely to allay them. All they do is fire up the easily influenced and alienate the vast majority of decent ordinary Muslims who live in the UK.

Nice post endure. I live in Liverpool and we have no 'off limits' or segregated areas. I live in a mixed race area, we have on our street Liverpudlians, Irish (not just me!) Sri Lankan, Indian, Chinese and Nigerian. We are all the best of friends living in a wonderful area. Scare mongering doesn't help.

In Rochdale i don't know of any off limit areas to whites but in Oldham (4 miles away) there most certainly are.

Many dabbs now accept that multiculturalism (the catchcry of the 70s and 80s) is problematic. A pity that the issues multiculturalism bring were not identified by those of our (leftist/liberal) forefathers who, as with many 'noisy' minorities, had far too much political influence.

If you want to live in a foreign country, you need to fit in (not the other way around). It really is that simple. But try to convince a liberal of that. Brick wall.