Our Clubs In Europe Thread............ All Competitions.

[MSingh]

Get in there. City through to the last 16 of the UEFA Cup

Who you got next round ??

AaB Alborg. Originally in the Champions League but didn't qualify for the group stages. They battered Deportiva La Coruna 6-1 last night

They're the Mob who drew at Man Ure aren't they ??

[bkkjames]

Get in there. City through to the last 16 of the UEFA Cup

Who you got next round ??

AaB Alborg. Originally in the Champions League but didn't qualify for the group stages. They battered Deportiva La Coruna 6-1 last night

They're the Mob who drew at Man Ure aren't they ??

Don't go there MS, BJ won't be able to sleep for the next two weeks worrying about it.

[StevieH]

surprised to see both balencia and milan go out at this stage. city could be a decent bet for the waffa cup.

[JacknDanny]

Get in there. City through to the last 16 of the UEFA Cup

Who you got next round ??

AaB Alborg. Originally in the Champions League but didn't qualify for the group stages. They battered Deportiva La Coruna 6-1 last night

Steady on Mr Boj, it was only 3-1

But they are the Danish champions, so should be better than Copenhagen.

Even so, I am confident we will be through to the last 8.

[mrbojangles]

Get in there. City through to the last 16 of the UEFA Cup

Who you got next round ??

AaB Alborg. Originally in the Champions League but didn't qualify for the group stages. They battered Deportiva La Coruna 6-1 last night

Steady on Mr Boj, it was only 3-1

But they are the Danish champions, so should be better than Copenhagen.

Even so, I am confident we will be through to the last 8.

Whoops, sorry Jack. It was 6-1 on aggregate

[JacknDanny]

Get in there. City through to the last 16 of the UEFA Cup

Who you got next round ??

AaB Alborg. Originally in the Champions League but didn't qualify for the group stages. They battered Deportiva La Coruna 6-1 last night

Steady on Mr Boj, it was only 3-1

But they are the Danish champions, so should be better than Copenhagen.

Even so, I am confident we will be through to the last 8.

Whoops, sorry Jack. It was 6-1 on aggregate :jerk:

Something not right here.

You have the knack of predicting correct scores BEFORE a game, yet when the game is over and the scores are shown, you get it wrong

Maybe you are doing a kind of football version of Groundhog Day

All I have to do now is work out which game will finish 6-1 at the weekend

[MSingh]

2 thorugh, one very impressively, one in my opinion didn't even really get out of 3rd gear...

Tonights 2 could easily win both their Games too & if i were a betting Man, an all English Semi, if the draw was kind, would not be out of the question at all..

[StevieH]

2 thorugh, one very impressively, one in my opinion didn't even really get out of 3rd gear...

Tonights 2 could easily win both their Games too & if i were a betting Man, an all English Semi, if the draw was kind, would not be out of the question at all..

it's becoming boring though isn't it? the great thing about the european cup was always the glamour of the ties between each country's top clubs and the clash of styles that entailed, but now it's reached a point where essentially an english club *is* going to win it and the only side which might hold a candle to the four is barcelona. the competition risks becoming as predictable as the domestic trophies because of the way the finances are skewed in favour of english clubs. i don't like the bloke but i can kind of see where platini is coming from.

[MSingh]

2 thorugh, one very impressively, one in my opinion didn't even really get out of 3rd gear...

Tonights 2 could easily win both their Games too & if i were a betting Man, an all English Semi, if the draw was kind, would not be out of the question at all..

it's becoming boring though isn't it? the great thing about the european cup was always the glamour of the ties between each country's top clubs and the clash of styles that entailed, but now it's reached a point where essentially an english club *is* going to win it and the only side which might hold a candle to the four is barcelona. the competition risks becoming as predictable as the domestic trophies because of the way the finances are skewed in favour of english clubs. i don't like the bloke but i can kind of see where platini is coming from.

Souness, for once, hit the nail on the head though Stevie..

He said that there are some real big Clubs in it from the Continent IE Real Madrid/Juve, but no real good Teams..

When you saw Gago chasing Gerrards shadow last night whilst putting his hair behind his ear, that said a lot to me..

& let's remember something here, this $$ that you say about that are skewed to English Clubs, Real Madrid aren't that far behind in terms of $$ yet they were a million miles behind Liverpool over 2 Games, Inter Milan i have a feeling will be the same, i think it's a compliment to the Prem & the power & pace of it which simply can not be matched by Continental sides when going head to head..

[StevieH]

Souness, for once, hit the nail on the head though Stevie..

He said that there are some real big Clubs in it from the Continent IE Real Madrid/Juve, but no real good Teams..

When you saw Gago chasing Gerrards shadow last night whilst putting his hair behind his ear, that said a lot to me..

& let's remember something here, this $ that you say about that are skewed to English Clubs, Real Madrid aren't that far behind in terms of $ yet they were a million miles behind Liverpool over 2 Games, Inter Milan i have a feeling will be the same, i think it's a compliment to the Prem & the power & pace of it which simply can not be matched by Continental sides when going head to head..

i didn't listen to the punditry m, but that's a fair point from souness. madrid's squad cost more than double liverpool's and gago cost the same amount as mascherano did - doesn't look the same calibre of player though does he?

i think you might have a point there, it's taken a long time for english football to marry its pace and physicality to the technique and tactics required to win in europe, but it seems now that all the top four clubs have achieved this. i can't see any circumstances in the next five years or so, or even longer, where an english club doesn't win the european cup. short of uefa bringing in further quota systems or financial restraints to try and make the competition more competitive again.

[rixalex]

i can't see any circumstances in the next five years or so, or even longer, where an english club doesn't win the european cup.

I don't agree with that. Yes the English clubs will be strong and do well, but as with all cup competitions there's always an element of luck involved. If you get a bad draw, or a bit of bad luck, or perhaps a bad refereeing decision - things that are out of your hands can happen is what i'm saying. Not like in the league where these things tend to even themselves out.

Predicting cup winners for the next 5 years and beyond is a dangerous thing to do.

As for whinning about the Champions League becoming boring due to English domination, Mr Singh said it all.

Just as money isn't the main reason why Liverpool won't win the Premiership this year (well i hope they won't ), it's also not the reason why some of the European giants have fallen by the way-side. The reason is much more simple - their teams just aren't good enough.

[StevieH]

i can't see any circumstances in the next five years or so, or even longer, where an english club doesn't win the european cup.

I don't agree with that. Yes the English clubs will be strong and do well, but as with all cup competitions there's always an element of luck involved. If you get a bad draw, or a bit of bad luck, or perhaps a bad refereeing decision - things that are out of your hands can happen is what i'm saying. Not like in the league where these things tend to even themselves out.

Predicting cup winners for the next 5 years and beyond is a dangerous thing to do.

As for whinning about the Champions League becoming boring due to English domination, Mr Singh said it all.

Just as money isn't the main reason why Liverpool won't win the Premiership this year (well i hope they won't ), it's also not the reason why some of the European giants have fallen by the way-side. The reason is much more simple - their teams just aren't good enough.

money is the main reason for english dominance at the moment. it is simply the reason that the teams are better. the premier league is where the money is at now, just as it used to be in serie a for a while and then la liga for a while, but those two leagues had their spells of european dominance in the times before sustained and built-up champions league revenue and also they never had the kind of money thrown at them that murdoch now throws at the english league. as such the top four english clubs (plus man city now) are able to outbid and pay higher wages than all but realistically barcelona and real madrid now.

the only 'bad draw' that an english club can now get in europe is against another english club. if all four english teams go through to the quarter finals and all get drawn apart, chances are very likely that all four english clubs will be the semi-finalists.

[rixalex]

money is the main reason for english dominance at the moment. it is simply the reason that the teams are better.

Look at the two teams on the pitch last night - i'm talking about the Liverpool / Real game. One team was vastly superior to the other. Were the players from that team vastly more expensive?

It's true that the English premiership now has a draw - and this isn't simply about players wanting to come because of money - they could invariably find an employer in Europe who would pay similar wages. They want to come and ply their trade here because it's the most exciting league in the world and is watched by millions. This is thanks to great marketing of an already great product - the rest of Europe just has to catch up and stop with this cry-baby nonsense. Didn't see us doing that all the years that they dominated.

[Plus]

Outside of big four you have no future, though. In Spain there's always something new like Deportivo or Villareal to fill supplement Real and Barca.

Let's see if the trend is sustainable, it wasn't long ago than Manu couldn't pass qualifying stages, and this year the other big three are not impressive at all, domestically. Even in 2005, when Liverpool won CL, in the first half Milan looked a vastly superior side, something they proved in a replay a couple of years ago. And it was after Real's comprehensive show when they beat Man U that Beckham decided to split (ok, there were other reasons, too).

Now Real is in a slump, no big deal, and Italians are recovering from their massive scandals that cost them money and players. Bayern got 12-1 on aggregate yesterday, I believe.

Not all is lost in Europe, let's see how it goes over several years.

[rixalex]

Now Real is in a slump, no big deal, and Italians are recovering from their massive scandals that cost them money and players. Bayern got 12-1 on aggregate yesterday, I believe.

Not all is lost in Europe, let's see how it goes over several years.

Completely agree. Far too many rushing to drastic and long-term conclusions based on a few games' results. Yes, history over the last few years tells us English teams will go far, but writing off the rest of Europe for the next five years or so is just daft - as is all this talk of trying to level the playing field the moment Italy and Spain aren't dominating.

[MSingh]

Now Real is in a slump, no big deal, and Italians are recovering from their massive scandals that cost them money and players. Bayern got 12-1 on aggregate yesterday, I believe.

Not all is lost in Europe, let's see how it goes over several years.

Completely agree. Far too many rushing to drastic and long-term conclusions based on a few games' results. Yes, history over the last few years tells us English teams will go far, but writing off the rest of Europe for the next five years or so is just daft - as is all this talk of trying to level the playing field the moment Italy and Spain aren't dominating.

Yeah 5 years is a long time & i'd be happy to have 20 Baht of anyone's money that a non English Club wins the CL within that time frame..

Will be interested to see how Bayern fare against a decent side, that Sporting side last night ( & 2 weeks previous ) were dreadful & i'd fancy us on TV's Football Forum to get 11 together & give them a Game..

& rule out Barca with the Players they have & the winning mentality of their Spanish Contingent, at your peril...

However that's a reason why i fancy Liverpool in this Competition ^^..

[rixalex]

^^ Agree.

If anything, what has happened our the last 4 to 5 years is that the English clubs have caught up with the rest of Europe.

Think back to when Real Madrid were the big force and when they were the only ones that could offer the sort of sum they did for Zidane. Was everyone in England crying, saying, "that's not fair - they've got more money than we have"? No, everyone was saying what a great club they were and how wonderful they were to watch.

And now that some of the English clubs have the sort of backing to compete for signings like Zidane, all of a sudden we have to make changes to the regulations because the rest of Europe doesn't like it? Complete racist nonsense!

[StevieH]

^^ Agree.

If anything, what has happened our the last 4 to 5 years is that the English clubs have caught up with the rest of Europe.

Think back to when Real Madrid were the big force and when they were the only ones that could offer the sort of sum they did for Zidane. Was everyone in England crying, saying, "that's not fair - they've got more money than we have"? No, everyone was saying what a great club they were and how wonderful they were to watch.

And now that some of the English clubs have the sort of backing to compete for signings like Zidane, all of a sudden we have to make changes to the regulations because the rest of Europe doesn't like it? Complete racist nonsense!

to be honest i don't think that 'everyone' is crying about it - certainly not 'the rest of europe' - it's platini and blatter who are saying it and they're saying it because they have a product to market which is losing its appeal at the moment. platini's an absolute hypocrite as illustrated in that brian reade article i posted earlier in the thread, blatter's a moron as we know, but as a fan, i don't think that the champions league is a whole lot of fun at the moment as i can't see any team, with the exception of possibly barcelona, stopping an english side winning it. and that isn't 'competition' by the definition of the word.

[rixalex]

to be honest i don't think that 'everyone' is crying about it - certainly not 'the rest of europe' - it's platini and blatter who are saying it and they're saying it because they have a product to market which is losing its appeal at the moment.

It's only losing its appeal for the fans of those clubs who aren't doing very well. I think you'll find that everyone else around the world is enjoying the product. Do you have any figures or stats that back up the claim - like falling numbers of people watching? I don't think so.

i can't see any team, with the exception of possibly barcelona, stopping an english side winning it. and that isn't 'competition' by the definition of the word.

Of course there is competition. This isn't a country vs country competition let's not forget - it's one European club against another - and if they happen to come from the same country then so be it - it's neither something to be encouraged or discouraged.

If the Premiership was suddenly dominated by clubs from the north of England (as it has been in the past), would you be saying, "hold your horses, that's not really very fair is it now - let's contrive it so that some of those southern softies have something to cheer about - let's share the success around a bit to make it fairer and more competitive"... or would you ???

Edited March 11, 2009 by rixalex

[bkkjames]

I am a little bit with Stevie on this one. While I take great pleasure in UTD beating Chelsea in the final last year, there is just something a bit more romantic/interesting/exciting when we line-up against the likes of Inter and Barca.

Perhaps its just because we end up playing the big 3 so much throughout the normal course of the year in the many domestic competitions.

[rixalex]

^^ I'm not saying that i too don't enjoy it more when we face a new and a different challenge in the shape of an Italian, a Spanish or a German team - it's exciting playing against a team and players you don't usually that is for sure.

What i am saying is we can't try to engineer it that way. You have to let the best teams rise to the top, wherever they happen to come from.

P.S. James siding with Stevie???!!! Have you been hitting the bottle too James?

Edited March 11, 2009 by rixalex

[Plus]

ManU predictably went through, and so did Arsenal, and Chelsea, but none of the teams were really impressive as to look head and shoulders above the competition. Chelsea drew, and came from behind, Arsenal won on penalties, and Inter looked at least an equal side for most of the game.

Both Italy and Spain came with three clubs to this stage against four English teams - not a sign of a huge dominance. Of course there's endless streak of English teams reaching finals, but it's not the time to ring the alarm for dead Europe yet.

Don't forget that Liverpool and Arsenal had their teams built under the same manager (not to mention Man U), let's see what happens if Benites is let go, or if Real and Barca finally settle in after a couple of rocky years, and Italians recover from scandal aftershocks.

Changing managers every year seems to be a trend nowadays, it will eventually catch up with big English clubs, too. Just look at Chelsea's decline.

[Jimjim]

Of course I want my club Liverpool to go through but I have to say it's a bit boring to see four English clubs left out of 8, and to see zero Italian clubs. I would have hoped at least Roma could have won that penalty shootout or taken one more of their fantastic chances to score. So, happy for my club but overall it's not satisfying to see this much dominance by one league, in my opinion. Certainly at least two English clubs will be matched up at this stage so that will help, and perhaps one of the other clubs will lose their tie. I think Barca could beat anybody right now, but could certainly lose to anyone if their defense doesn't tighten up.

[StevieH]

i think at the minute that united, liverpool and chelsea would all beat barcelona over two legs. barca are great going forward but their defence and 'keeper aren't up to much.

[Macclad]

I think Barcelona are the only danger to an English team not winning the trophy again this season.

Our sides will be hoping for a draw against either Porto or Villareal.

You might even get another Chelsea v Liverpool.....seems to happen most seasons !

[StevieH]

I think Barcelona are the only danger to an English team not winning the trophy again this season.

Our sides will be hoping for a draw against either Porto or Villareal.

You might even get another Chelsea v Liverpool.....seems to happen most seasons !

christ don't man, that's exactly what i'm banging on about. it's become depressingly predictable / boring. time was there was a romance and a mystery about the european cup, now it's the same old same old every dam_n season.

chelsea vs man utd is the draw that i would like to see but i very much expect to see liverpool vs man utd.

[mrbojangles]

but as a fan, i don't think that the champions league is a whole lot of fun at the moment .

Well i wouldn't mind being in it Stevie

Don't worry about. As we know, football is cyclical. You'll be moaning in 5 years that you can't qualify cos all the otherteams are better

[MSingh]

ManU predictably went through, and so did Arsenal, and Chelsea, but none of the teams were really impressive as to look head and shoulders above the competition. Chelsea drew, and came from behind, Arsenal won on penalties, and Inter looked at least an equal side for most of the game.

Both Italy and Spain came with three clubs to this stage against four English teams - not a sign of a huge dominance. Of course there's endless streak of English teams reaching finals, but it's not the time to ring the alarm for dead Europe yet.

Don't forget that Liverpool and Arsenal had their teams built under the same manager (not to mention Man U), let's see what happens if Benites is let go, or if Real and Barca finally settle in after a couple of rocky years, and Italians recover from scandal aftershocks.

Changing managers every year seems to be a trend nowadays, it will eventually catch up with big English clubs, too. Just look at Chelsea's decline.

I strongly disagree with virtually everything you've wrote but more so th highlighted points..

Firstly, Chelsea were never behind in the whole tie from minute 1 of the First Leg..

Secondly i suggest you watch the 90 mins in Milan & tell us how you view the difference in the 2 Teams then..

Thirdly, if having all 4 English Teams qualify for the QF's & all 3 Italian Teams knocked out before the QF's isn't a sign of dominance, i'd like you to show me what is ??

& lastly, Chelsea in decline ??? Don't make me laugh, they've had a dodgy Year but are still head & shoulders above anything else that Europe has to offer & argubly only behind 1 Team in England..

[StevieH]

Well i wouldn't mind being in it Stevie

Don't worry about. As we know, football is cyclical. You'll be moaning in 5 years that you can't qualify cos all the otherteams are better

i know you would mate, and while i look forward to city becoming the dominant force in manchester i am still very much concerned that liverpool could realistically win the european cup again this season but then go into administration in the summer. if we didn't have the revenues we've had from our european successes under rafa we could even be bust by now frankly.

I strongly disagree with virtually everything you've wrote but more so th highlighted points..

Firstly, Chelsea were never behind in the whole tie from minute 1 of the First Leg..

Secondly i suggest you watch the 90 mins in Milan & tell us how you view the difference in the 2 Teams then..

Thirdly, if having all 4 English Teams qualify for the QF's & all 3 Italian Teams knocked out before the QF's isn't a sign of dominance, i'd like you to show me what is ??

& lastly, Chelsea in decline ??? Don't make me laugh, they've had a dodgy Year but are still head & shoulders above anything else that Europe has to offer & argubly only behind 1 Team in England..

i agree. with your points about the english teams and particularly about chelsea. rumours of their demise have been greatly overstated. they've still got a hel_l of a squad and have now got a top manager who has got their heads up and got drogba playing again. they could very conceivably win the european cup this season.

[bkkjames]

FYI, quarter final draw next Friday, the 20th.