Thai Immigration Introduces New TM-card

[thaiflyer1]

The income question is to be replied by "non-Thai resident only".

Perhaps I am too slow this morning, but who is such a resident? Certainly not a tourist or somebody entering on a visa exempted stay?

How about non-immigrants? They are not residents although they are  non-Thai.

Puzzled.

you are exactly right, resident means just that people living in residence

but then is staying in a hotel also classified as being in residence or as visitor?

and where should the income be made, i suggest you should fill in the lowest amount at any time, which is bt 800.000, easier to verify and is a decent sum by thai standards anyway

in any case this is a grave abuse of intrusion of privacy

My reading of this is that it applies to Non Thai Residents..........i.e those who are not resident in Thailand as opposed to those who are resident in Thailand but are not of Thai citizenship................but i would agree to those who do not have English as thier native language it is a little ambiguous.

[ski_jump]

Is there any mention of reporting every 90 days?

How strict is this rule if it's not on the new TM, (or is it)?

[TizMe]

My  reading  of  this  is  that  it  applies  to  Non  Thai  Residents..........i.e  those  who  are  not  resident  in  Thailand  as  opposed  to  those  who  are  resident  in  Thailand  but  are  not  of  Thai  citizenship................but  i  would  agree  to  those  who  do  not  have  English  as  thier  native  language  it  is  a  little  ambiguous.

It is more than "a little ambiguous" even to those of us native English speakers.

[george]

Is there any mention of reporting every 90 days?

How strict is this rule if it's not on the new TM, (or is it)?

There is no rules at all on the new TM card:

1. No mention of the 90 days reporting.

2. No mention of the 24 hours reporting for change of address.

3. No mention of Tax clearence (but that requiremnet was scrapped back in 1990 anyway...)

So, how can a tourist know this "regulations" if it's not printed on the TM card?

How will the courts handle that fact?

[ovenman]

So, how can a tourist know this "regulations" if it's not printed on the TM card?

How will the courts handle that fact?

Probably with the age-old adage, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

So, how can a tourist know this "regulations" if it's not printed on the TM card?

How will the courts handle that fact?

Probably with the age-old adage, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that you picked it in one Oven

[PvtDick]

A true tourist would not be staying for more than 90 days.

[grtaylor]

What I'd like to do about the income question (but I probably won't, as the last thing I want arriving back in the country is hassle at immigration!), is to leave it blank, wait until they ask me how much I earn, and then ask them how much they earn!

G

[astral]

None of their &lt;deleted&gt; business

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite right too.

I shall be ticking the box for zero.

I already had to show them I have 400K for my married visa, that is enough info!!

Interesting that the form does not allow for us to live in a house, only a condo!!

The passport info is on the bar code, so there is no need to write it all down.

[christianshearer]

A true tourist would not be staying for more than 90 days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know lots of tourists who stay for longer than 90 days (of course they have to jump inot Laos, Combodia or Myanmar to renew their Visa) Thailand is an amazing place with so much to offer and so much to see. To say that you can see it in 90 days is wrong. Going to Phuket and Pattaya is NOT seeing Thailand.

The last time I was at the Mai Sai Border they had a sign up saying that all Tourist must carry 20,000 Baht on their person. This is crazy to me. If I was into mugging people I think I know where I would hang out!

I really think thailand is trying to do away with tourists (like myself) who aren't wealthy, who don't spend a lot of money in the Kingdom, and who aren't actively chipping in to Thaksinomics. I wish they could see that some of us are chipping in to Thailand in other ways, i.e. volunteering during the Tsunami crisis, teaching english at rural Thai schools for nothing, workingo n organic farms, and doing sustainable building in the north.

I am worried that at some point I am going to go to the boarder, and they are going to tell me that I am not wealthy enough to have the privaledge of traveling in Thailand. This already happens systematically to those people from non-first world countries. My friend who is mexican had a terrible time trying to get into this country. Whereas, because I am american I get no questions asked (up till now).

Trouble in the Kingdom.

[PvtDick]

I meant 90 days at a time. Most tourists are only granted a stay of 30 to 60 days.

[grtaylor]

I see the card has the ASEAN logo on it. Do other ASEAN countries have similar cards? Is it perhaps an attempt to get some sort of consistency amongst the documentation for the different countries?

Or is that just a daft question to ask in Thailand?

G

Edited January 13, 2005 by grtaylor

[astral]

There is no area for arrival/dep by bus, car or on foot (visa run, backpackers etc.)

When does this new form go into use?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes there is.

It says flight or VEHICLE number,

assuming you can write Thai characters from the license plate.

Walking - just write 2-feet.

[boris]

I suspect there is less here than meets the eye, although the English usage is very ambiguous,I think the objective is for the Thai Government or TAT to get a handle on visitor demographics including income to asist in planning tourist infrastructure.Not in itself so silly an idea but just inefficiently implemented by bureaucrats.

[Nutcracker]

As a coffin-dodger with a retirement visa, I intend on my next arrival to interpret some of the sections which seem to be causing bother as follows:

1. I am a Thai resident because I live in Thailand on a retirement visa.

2. My income is nil because I have no business or employment income worldwide.

3. Next city will be left blank because I have no intention of leaving.

This approach will be tested on my arrival in Phuket tomorrow!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A true tourist would not be staying for more than 90 days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know lots of tourists who stay for longer than 90 days (of course they have to jump inot Laos, Combodia or Myanmar to renew their Visa) Thailand is an amazing place with so much to offer and so much to see. To say that you can see it in 90 days is wrong. Going to Phuket and Pattaya is NOT seeing Thailand.

The last time I was at the Mai Sai Border they had a sign up saying that all Tourist must carry 20,000 Baht on their person. This is crazy to me. If I was into mugging people I think I know where I would hang out!

I really think thailand is trying to do away with tourists (like myself) who aren't wealthy, who don't spend a lot of money in the Kingdom, and who aren't actively chipping in to Thaksinomics. I wish they could see that some of us are chipping in to Thailand in other ways, i.e. volunteering during the Tsunami crisis, teaching english at rural Thai schools for nothing, workingo n organic farms, and doing sustainable building in the north.

I am worried that at some point I am going to go to the boarder, and they are going to tell me that I am not wealthy enough to have the privaledge of traveling in Thailand. This already happens systematically to those people from non-first world countries. My friend who is mexican had a terrible time trying to get into this country. Whereas, because I am american I get no questions asked (up till now).

Trouble in the Kingdom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That work on organic farming and building work are illegal activities and are likely to get you banged up and deported

[stevenmj60]

I flew in a few days ago and was given the new form. I am a Thai resident but on a non-imm B visa not a resident visa. I did not fill out the back of the form. The immigration officer turned it over, looked at it and turned it right back without saying a word and completed the process.

[fisherd3]

Generally backpackers, have saved a suitable quantity of money and their only income is the interest on this money, this is most unlikely to exceed the first tier on the new form i.e.$20,000 notwithstanding this they have a perfect ability to support themselves for their visit.

The Thai economy must benefit hugely in the receipt of foreign currency from back packers of which we all know there is a huge number. Far too many for any income check of any sort to be applied across the board at borders.

It is also true that many people might have quite substantial cash holdings that do not generate much 'income' but is still most able to be spent in the Thai economy.

For these reasons and the position of the income question on the new form I do not believe that it's inclusion is for the purpose of excluding admission to the kingdom, but as purported elsewhere for statistical purposes .

[chico]

My  reading  of  this  is  that  it  applies  to  Non  Thai  Residents..........i.e  those  who  are  not  resident  in  Thailand  as  opposed  to  those  who  are  resident  in  Thailand  but  are  not  of  Thai  citizenship................but  i  would  agree  to  those  who  do  not   have  English  as  thier  native  language  it  is  a  little  ambiguous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is more than "a little ambiguous" even to those of us native English speakers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"non-Thai resident" I simply read it : not Thai citizen, but (Thai) resident

as opposed to "non Thai-resident" : all Thais plus foreigners with residency

and that's what they probably wanted to say.

[lopburi3]

"non-Thai resident" I simply read it : not Thai citizen, but (Thai) resident

as opposed to "non Thai-resident" : all Thais plus foreigners with residency

and that's what they probably wanted to say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do not agree. Expect anyone on a non-immigrant extension of stay would be a resident (as opposed to Permanent Resident) and it would probably be accepted for anyone entering on a non-immigrant visa. A tourist/transit/or vise free entry I expect is who that want to answer that question and believe it is for stats rather than some evil purpose.

[phuketrichard]

None of their &lt;deleted&gt; business

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree dave. Also no where does it ask what type visa your on??

Plus am I to carry Thai baht cash with me when I leave and come back? I hardley ever travel with more than 1,000 baht to pay for departure tax and taxi back home when I return. Or do I travel with any curriencies as I use my atm card wherever I am going to get local curriences.

TIT

[phuketrichard]

Hey;

if this is to only serve to verify their idea that RICH tourists and farangs visit. lets all agree that we are all the highest income .

What they going to do ask us to verfiy it????

How many of you NEVER lie on immigration cards?? I always place whatever country I live in and where i am staying that I feel like.

This new form makes no dif to me and with no customs form it will be less writing.

[Artisi]

Just fill in the new form as you did before and get on with life. At the end of the day it doesn't make any difference to anyone.

I arrived (back) on the 10th - and was given the old form to use.

[acesalan]

QUOTE(chico @ 2005-01-13 09:45:06)

"non-Thai resident" I simply read it : not Thai citizen, but (Thai) resident

as opposed to "non Thai-resident" : all Thais plus foreigners with residency

and that's what they probably wanted to say."

my reading of 'non-thai resident' means anybody who is not a Thai residing in thailand on any long term visa, B, O etc. What does 'non-thai' means? To me, it refers to nationality.

if it reads 'Non Thai Resident', without the hyphen, it will mean all those who are not residing in Thailand, regardless they are citizens or not.

the statement is clear to me, not sure why it's confusing to others. The hyphen makes a difference.

Or, how about asking your gf/wives what the Thai characters mean. They often paint a better picture.

[Richard W]

QUOTE(chico @ 2005-01-13 09:45:06)

"non-Thai resident" I simply read it : not Thai citizen, but (Thai) resident

as opposed to "non Thai-resident" : all Thais plus foreigners with residency

and that's what they probably wanted to say."

my reading of 'non-thai resident' means anybody who is not a Thai residing in thailand on any long term visa, B, O etc. What does 'non-thai' means? To me, it refers to nationality.

if it reads 'Non Thai Resident', without the hyphen, it will mean all those who are not residing in Thailand, regardless they are citizens or not.

the statement is clear to me, not sure why it's confusing to others. The hyphen makes a difference.

Or, how about asking your gf/wives what the Thai characters mean. They often paint a better picture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Won't they just say that เฉพาะชาวต่างชาติ means 'For foreigners'? Maybe it means for people who pay farang price rather than Thai price when dual pricing is in effect

A minor issue: Do Thais entering Thailand now have to fill in both the TM card stapled in their passports and the new one? My wife has her departure date stamped on the back of the arrival card stapled into her passport, and I understand Immigration are irritated if such cards go missing.

I take it 'Next City/Port of Embarkation' is basically where you go through immigration in Thailand.

I note they still leave the confusing state/city entry. I assume that's American, or should I have been entering 'State: UK; Country: England'? (I don't live in a city.)

Edited January 13, 2005 by Richard W

[Lord Toad]

A couple of points I would like to add.

Firstly backpackers are the top level tourist of tomorrow. Most back packers are university students or similar on a gap year. Give them a good time and they will come back next time as a high earner. Also backpackers save for their trips and are therefore properly funded and will move on when they should.

There are quite a few people who come here to avoid the winter in Europe/US. They are 6 month tourists.

In any event as you can not get citizenship in Thailand (without excessive hoop jumping) we are all a kind of tourist because we are citizens of another country.

I know people who live in Thailand on the UK pension. That is about 30,000 Baht a month. Well below the threshold. But they do no harm and their money is welcome. Many have lived here for years.

Having said that I understand the problems of idiots who come hear with no money and expect to duck and dive to live. Also the problem of the guys who buy a beer bar and live off it with no work permit etc. The silly thing is the Thais know who those people are and do nothing. Instead they hassle the good guys who want to come hang out and enjoy the country doing no harm.

Ideally I would live here 9/10 months a year and spend the rest of my time in Europe or traveling in this region. I now have a retirement visa for convenience but in the past used non im multi entry. As I do a little work (as a writer) I always felt happier on a B visa but can not get one now. I earn no income in Thailand. The work I do is more of a hobby than for remuneration. As to income I have very little: but I do have enough money to live for the rest of my life at a rate I call comfortable! However the point is I seem to be violating the strict interpretation of the Thai immigration law. Although I spend on average 2 million Baht a year in Thailand! If I got hassled I would simply pack up and go live else where. I can: others can not!

And that is the point. The guys with money can walk. Start getting too stupid and restrictive the only ones that with play the game to stay is those that have to: those with out the money!

[Richard Hall]

Well, there is a new arrival card and that's pretty much it. Just a little form, a &lt;deleted&gt;' piece of paper to fill in and surely no reason to get your blood steaming.

Here, how I see the entire subject:

- For non-Thai resident only

Don't just guess but read the Thai script instead. It translates "exclusively for foreigners". A foreigner is a person that does not hold citizenship of the country he is about to enter and/or resides in. So all of us non-Thais are concerned whether we are going to be on a short term (tourist, business trip) or long term (pensioner, supporter of family etc. - the holders of non-immigrant visas). Under these circumstances the term "non-Thai resident" is not so bad at all. An abbreviation for "staying (= residing) in Thailand as a foreigner (= not holding Thai citizenship = non-Thai) independant from the mission.

- Income

Income is not necessarily just a salary/wage obtained for work but money someone obtains by all kind of means to make a living (it can be a salary, wage, pension, money from renting out property, interest, dividends etc.)

- Question about yearly income

Most likely of interest for statistical reasons (for example of some value to TAT) only and very unlikely for use of putting some stones into a foreigners attempt to enter Thailand or reside here. The issue may, however, be brought up if a person gets into conflict with the law or features severe misbehaviour while in town. There are rumours that Thailand is not just a magnet to the Vienna Choir Boys but also to a lot of f...-ups of all kinds of nationalities but guess these are just rumours particularly in a city that bears the name "City of Angels". Under these circumstances let us just take it for granted that the information about income is for statistical reasons only. A question, by the way, that is quite often raised may it be when you get surveyed on the street, apply for a credit card, fill in a questionaire by a hotel, a theme park, maybe even a McDonald restaurant when they asked their patrons whether they are satisfied with the service.

The modern world just loves statistics for whatever reasons and pulls out figures on any occasion whether it is approprate or not.

Conclusion: RELAX. Rather have a Singh or a Chang to flush down your paranoia and enjoy your time of residing in Thailand. Adopt an occasional "mai pen rai" or even a little bit of Thai "mag ngai" and the sky appears to get a little more pink colored shine.

Just my two tiny little satang.

Richard

[Richard W]

TM cards also have to be completed for children. Are they going to look askance at infants declaring an income, as opposed to 'no income'? Does pocket money count as income? Thinking on, does housekeeping money count as income?

[maerim]

I am worried that at some point I am going to go to the boarder,

When you are teaching up country it might just be a good idea to learn to spell border.

Unless you are going to the paying guest or an inmate in a public school.

[PvtDick]

I've never seen so much hand-wringing about nothing in all my life.