Embattled Thai Pm Offers Talks With Thaksin

[slapout]

I thought my point was quite clear, sorry if you could not grasp it. Self, be more plain spoken in future posts.

[FarangCravings]

The Abhisit government is not illegal!

If you wanna discuss illegal governments then lets talk about the two times Taxsin won landslide vistories through massive vote buying. And there's plenty of evidence of this, including numerous comments on this webboard.

The opening comment of this subject says 'embattled' pm. Rubbish, he's not embattled at all, this is not a correct comment.

Will the red shirts win next week and overthrow the government. No chance in hel_l. Do you really think the anti-taxsin masses won't react if the red shirts have many more paid and unaware followers next week? Just wait and see.

And, Taxsin has recently made lots of comments about illegal coups / the military illegally getting involved in politics in 2006, then this week he has tried to instigate a coup to overthrow the Abhisit government. No credibility or constistence in anything this fugitive criminal says.

I gotta get some of that stuff your smoking mate

[FarangCravings]

With the number of new member over the past few weeks who seem to have such a high regard for tackey and his past political/business escapades, it brings to mind people who hire PR firms to further their own agenda. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but when you attempt to sway other people/groups and or debate with others, homework needs to be done, thus presenting true, rational facts. Otherwise some of the people may consider it propaganda, brainwashing or just plane bull sh.t.

Thailand was doing much better under him than it is now

[rixalex]

The Abhisit government is not illegal!

If you wanna discuss illegal governments then lets talk about the two times Taxsin won landslide vistories through massive vote buying. And there's plenty of evidence of this, including numerous comments on this webboard.

The opening comment of this subject says 'embattled' pm. Rubbish, he's not embattled at all, this is not a correct comment.

Will the red shirts win next week and overthrow the government. No chance in hel_l. Do you really think the anti-taxsin masses won't react if the red shirts have many more paid and unaware followers next week? Just wait and see.

And, Taxsin has recently made lots of comments about illegal coups / the military illegally getting involved in politics in 2006, then this week he has tried to instigate a coup to overthrow the Abhisit government. No credibility or constistence in anything this fugitive criminal says.

I gotta get some of that stuff your smoking mate

Perhaps you should consult your doctor first - it might react badly with the medication you are on.

[hammered]

Maybe this should be in the News section.

Interesting stuff indeed

[bertlamar]

With the number of new member over the past few weeks who seem to have such a high regard for tackey and his past political/business escapades, it brings to mind people who hire PR firms to further their own agenda. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but when you attempt to sway other people/groups and or debate with others, homework needs to be done, thus presenting true, rational facts. Otherwise some of the people may consider it propaganda, brainwashing or just plane bull sh.t.

Thailand was doing much better under him than it is now

The entire world is doing badly right now...so shall we say that is also solely the result of Thaksin as well? Seriously, Thaksin did f&*k all for the long term growth of Thailand; mostly he just skimmed and spent the rest on astute marketing.

The headline of this should give you a hint.... Suthep Deputy PM speaks about talking to Thaksin and this becomes embattled PM?? Please.

As for not current COALITION not being elected; the PM stood in the elections, as did the other MPs. If factions choose to switch sides after the election to form coalitions, they have the rights to do so. For instance, Chart Thai and a couple of other smaller parties promised pre election in 2006 to not form a coalition with PPP, didn't last too long yet didn't see too many of the pro Thaksin mob complain.

Right now, the red shirt thing is desparation, but let's face it, if he stood now, with the way the electoral split is in the factions, Thaksin would not be able to get an absolute majority for his party; after all, he couldn't do that in 2006 even with a couple of extra factions he doesn't have now. These are the last gasps of a desparate man who, let's face it, broke the law and got caught.

Anyone who actually knows much about how business works here - chicken flu, TAT, elite card, airport, etc etc - they all know and see TRT dirty paws over most of the cash flowing in and out 2002 onwards.

Long term sustainable advatange for business??? Most of that was the result of the 1997 crash and immediate changes and deregulation. Since then....a catch up and then the same as the rest of the world. Some genius though, he has a fair few of you lot all keen on him.

[Pierrot]

I thought my point was quite clear, sorry if you could not grasp it. Self, be more plain spoken in future posts.

Sorry, nothing personal. But I agree with you, better to be "plain spoken”, some of these threads are highly emotionally charged and misunderstanding can lead to words that will be regretted the next morning …

[Pierrot]

Some people didn’t like the word "embattled”. I guess they won’t like what follows.

'Time is past' for talks with government

Ex-prime minister warns of revolution 'by the people'

Ousted ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra last night ruled out the possibility of talks with the government, saying that it was too late.

"The time for talks has passed. This matter is not about me; it's about the country, democracy and the future of our children and grandchildren," he told his red clad supporters through a video linkup during their gathering outside Government House.

He instead warned the government of a "people's revolution".

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/04...cs_30099639.php

[p_brownstone]

I really have no idea why Suthep and / or Abhisit would make any overture about "talks" unless it was a deliberate ploy to give Thaksin some hope that he was making progress - and thus encourage him to spend even more of his fast reducing cash on his rent-a-mobs.

Unless they can provoke a serious confrontation the rallies will dissipate over Songkran - there is no chance that their antics will bring down this Democratically elected Government any other way.

Patrick

[Pierrot]

I really have no idea why Suthep and / or Abhisit would make any overture about "talks" unless it was a deliberate ploy to give Thaksin some hope that he was making progress - and thus encourage him to spend even more of his fast reducing cash on his rent-a-mobs.

Unless they can provoke a serious confrontation the rallies will dissipate over Songkran - there is no chance that their antics will bring down this Democratically elected Government any other way.

Patrick

First you say you have "no idea why”, then you refer to "Democratically elected Government" when talking about Abhisit government.

You should have stick with your first statement; you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about

Edited April 4, 2009 by Pierrot

[p_brownstone]

I really have no idea why Suthep and / or Abhisit would make any overture about "talks" unless it was a deliberate ploy to give Thaksin some hope that he was making progress - and thus encourage him to spend even more of his fast reducing cash on his rent-a-mobs.

Unless they can provoke a serious confrontation the rallies will dissipate over Songkran - there is no chance that their antics will bring down this Democratically elected Government any other way.

Patrick

First you say you have "no idea why”, then you refer to "Democratically elected Government" when talking about Abhisit government.

You should have stick with your first statement; you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about

Please try to understand one very simple fact.

All talk about an “illegal” Government is patent nonsense.

Every recent Thai Government – bar one – has been constituted after the Elections by the trading of favours and other benefits between large and small Parties in order to gain a Majority of Seats in the Parliament, exactly the way Abhisits’ Government has come to power now.

The result has always been a messy power sharing agreement between the Coalition Parties which eventually fell apart – usually because one Party began to feel it had not received control of enough lucrative Ministries in exchange for their participation and began to look around for new allies to bring about dissolution of Parliament and new Elections, after which they might have more bargaining power in forming a new Government.

The only Party ever to receive enough Parliamentary Seats to form a Government on its own was the first in which Thaksin led TRT. At that point Thaksin had the golden opportunity to form a Government with Ministers chosen for their talent in a particular field, he had no need to accept inferior people simply to keep a coalition together. He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever.

Instead he concentrated on enriching himself and, to a much lesser extent, his cronies (hence his current situation) and because he had a majority in Parliament there were no effective ways to limit his excesses as the Constitutional watchdogs were undermined and emasculated by him and his team.

Patrick

[rixalex]

Please try to understand one very simple fact.

All talk about an "illegal" Government is patent nonsense.

Every recent Thai Government – bar one – has been constituted after the Elections by the trading of favours and other benefits between large and small Parties in order to gain a Majority of Seats in the Parliament, exactly the way Abhisits' Government has come to power now.

The result has always been a messy power sharing agreement between the Coalition Parties which eventually fell apart – usually because one Party began to feel it had not received control of enough lucrative Ministries in exchange for their participation and began to look around for new allies to bring about dissolution of Parliament and new Elections, after which they might have more bargaining power in forming a new Government.

The only Party ever to receive enough Parliamentary Seats to form a Government on its own was the first in which Thaksin led TRT. At that point Thaksin had the golden opportunity to form a Government with Ministers chosen for their talent in a particular field, he had no need to accept inferior people simply to keep a coalition together. He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever.

Instead he concentrated on enriching himself and, to a much lesser extent, his cronies (hence his current situation) and because he had a majority in Parliament there were no effective ways to limit his excesses as the Constitutional watchdogs were undermined and emasculated by him and his team.

Patrick

Very well put Patrick.

Anyone who wants to continue arguing that this government illegally came to power should show us evidence (such as a posting on this forum) that they also protested against the PPP forming a government with Samak, because the PPP did so in exactly the same manner as the Democrats have done.

You can't agree with the forming of one of these governments, but not the other - unless of course you are happy applying double standards.

[Pierrot]

The only Party ever to receive enough Parliamentary Seats to form a Government on its own was the first in which Thaksin led TRT. At that point Thaksin had the golden opportunity to form a Government with Ministers chosen for their talent in a particular field, he had no need to accept inferior people simply to keep a coalition together. He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever.

You're absolutely right. The only problem was he wasn't allowed to do that. This "absolute" power doesn't belong to an elected person.

In an other thread, a foreign academic, heavily influenced by Thai academics, and I know the connection, talked about “some form of elite liberal-conservative hybrid democracy “, actually like if Paris Hilton and Dick Cheney were allowed to decide between themselves of the future of the USA

Then you said “He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever”. It’s too early to use the past tense …

[rixalex]

The only Party ever to receive enough Parliamentary Seats to form a Government on its own was the first in which Thaksin led TRT. At that point Thaksin had the golden opportunity to form a Government with Ministers chosen for their talent in a particular field, he had no need to accept inferior people simply to keep a coalition together. He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever.

You're absolutely right. The only problem was he wasn't allowed to do that. This "absolute" power doesn't belong to an elected person.

Wasn't allowed to do what? To chose ministers based on talent?

So you are saying his hand was forced to pick relatives, friends and previous work colleagues?! It's the way you tell them!

[p_brownstone]

Then you said “He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever”. It’s too early to use the past tense …

You demonstrate a rather charming naïveté.

His first opportunity to make a difference in Thai Politics (and Society?) was devoted to self aggrandisement and greed.

In the infinitesimal chance that he has a second opportunity what sensible person could believe that his sole goal would be any different?

Patrick

[Pierrot]

Then you said "He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever". It's too early to use the past tense …

You demonstrate a rather charming naïveté.

His first opportunity to make a difference in Thai Politics (and Society?) was devoted to self aggrandisement and greed.

In the infinitesimal chance that he has a second opportunity what sensible person could believe that his sole goal would be any different?

Patrick

So far the only people who were accused of getting unlawful profits were his relatives. Personally he didn't get anything from his time in power, and honestly I believe he's rich enough so money is not that high on his agenda.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Pierrot

[sibeymai]

Talk with Thaksin is fine, provided it happens on Thai soil from behind the bars of a prison cell.

[p_brownstone]

So far the only people who were accused of getting unlawful profits were his relatives. Personally he didn't get anything from his time in power, and honestly I believe he's rich enough so money is not that high on his agenda.

This is the best you can offer?

That “his relatives” miraculously made money - without any assistance or influence from Thaksin himself? You believe their innate financial acumen (or their cupidity) surfaced by coincidence just when Thaksin happened to be Prime Minister?

Patrick

[Pierrot]

The only Party ever to receive enough Parliamentary Seats to form a Government on its own was the first in which Thaksin led TRT. At that point Thaksin had the golden opportunity to form a Government with Ministers chosen for their talent in a particular field, he had no need to accept inferior people simply to keep a coalition together. He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever.

You're absolutely right. The only problem was he wasn't allowed to do that. This "absolute" power doesn't belong to an elected person.

Wasn't allowed to do what? To chose ministers based on talent?

So you are saying his hand was forced to pick relatives, friends and previous work colleagues?! It's the way you tell them!

Right. And how do you qualify Abhi's selection? Actually you can claim Abhi is just a puppet and has no say in "his" government selection. You would be right and make my point at the same time.

[rixalex]

The only Party ever to receive enough Parliamentary Seats to form a Government on its own was the first in which Thaksin led TRT. At that point Thaksin had the golden opportunity to form a Government with Ministers chosen for their talent in a particular field, he had no need to accept inferior people simply to keep a coalition together. He could have changed the face of Thai politics completely and forever.

You're absolutely right. The only problem was he wasn't allowed to do that. This "absolute" power doesn't belong to an elected person.

Wasn't allowed to do what? To chose ministers based on talent?

So you are saying his hand was forced to pick relatives, friends and previous work colleagues?! It's the way you tell them!

Right. And how do you qualify Abhi's selection? Actually you can claim Abhi is just a puppet and has no say in "his" government selection. You would be right and make my point at the same time.

If you want to talk about Abhisit that's fine, but we were talking about Thaksin - could you at least answer the question?

So you are saying his hand (Thaksin's) was forced to pick relatives, friends and previous work colleagues?!

Simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

[Pierrot]

This is the best you can offer?

That "his relatives" miraculously made money - without any assistance or influence from Thaksin himself? You believe their innate financial acumen (or their cupidity) surfaced by coincidence just when Thaksin happened to be Prime Minister?

Patrick

[if you want to talk about Abhisit that's fine, but we were talking about Thaksin - could you at least answer the question?

So you are saying his hand (Thaksin's) was forced to pick relatives, friends and previous work colleagues?!

Simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Both post are related. What do you want me to say ? That Thaksin is free from his family and relatives ? This is Thailand we're talking about. Whatever you do, your friends, relatives, neighbours ... are going to try to take advantage of it. If you don't understand that, you're probably not living here ...

[rixalex]

This is the best you can offer?

That "his relatives" miraculously made money - without any assistance or influence from Thaksin himself? You believe their innate financial acumen (or their cupidity) surfaced by coincidence just when Thaksin happened to be Prime Minister?

Patrick

[if you want to talk about Abhisit that's fine, but we were talking about Thaksin - could you at least answer the question?

So you are saying his hand (Thaksin's) was forced to pick relatives, friends and previous work colleagues?!

Simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Both post are related. What do you want me to say ? That Thaksin is free from his family and relatives ? This is Thailand we're talking about. Whatever you do, your friends, relatives, neighbours ... are going to try to take advantage of it. If you don't understand that, you're probably not living here ...

Simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

[Pierrot]

This is the best you can offer?

That "his relatives" miraculously made money - without any assistance or influence from Thaksin himself? You believe their innate financial acumen (or their cupidity) surfaced by coincidence just when Thaksin happened to be Prime Minister?

Patrick

[if you want to talk about Abhisit that's fine, but we were talking about Thaksin - could you at least answer the question?

So you are saying his hand (Thaksin's) was forced to pick relatives, friends and previous work colleagues?!

Simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Both post are related. What do you want me to say ? That Thaksin is free from his family and relatives ? This is Thailand we're talking about. Whatever you do, your friends, relatives, neighbours ... are going to try to take advantage of it. If you don't understand that, you're probably not living here ...

Simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Yes

Whatever you think, Thaksin is no god , he has the same problem as everybody else, and he's living in Thailand too....

[rixalex]

Yes

Whatever you think, Thaksin is no god , he has the same problem as everybody else, and he's living in Thailand too....

Do you realise how ridiculous that is? You are saying that some outside force twisted Thaksin's arm to make him employ all his close friends and relatives regardless of whether they were qualified or not? Why on earth would he needed his arm twisted to do that?

[Pierrot]

Yes

Whatever you think, Thaksin is no god , he has the same problem as everybody else, and he's living in Thailand too....

Do you realise how ridiculous that is? You are saying that some outside force twisted Thaksin's arm to make him employ all his close friends and relatives regardless of whether they were qualified or not? Why on earth would he needed his arm twisted to do that?

Honestly, I don't know who is ridiculous here . Please check all political appointments for the past 6 month, in all "mature" democracies, Europe and the USA. How many are based on political affiliation and how many are based on personal competence?

You’re making a fool of yourself.

[rixalex]

Honestly, I don't know who is ridiculous here . Please check all political appointments for the past 6 month, in all "mature" democracies, Europe and the USA. How many are based on political affiliation and how many are based on personal competence?

You're making a fool of yourself.

LOL. You seem to have forgotten the point you were trying to make. Let me remind you. You were saying that Thaksin had appointed people who were unsuitable and unqualified, not because they were politically affiliated loyal chums and relatives that he could control, but because there was some outside power that forced him to choose them.

That is what is ridiculous.

As to your last comment - it takes one to know one as they say.

[Pierrot]

LOL. You seem to have forgotten the point you were trying to make.

You're right.

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has crushed the government's hopes of ending the political impasse, rejecting outright its offer to hold talks.

Earlier in the day Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva welcomed attempts to find a charismatic figure to mediate between the government and the UDD.

Privy councillor Gen Pichitr Kullavanijaya yesterday voiced frustration over the government's failure to take action against Thaksin.

I believe it's clear what's going on. We just entered "panic mode" !

[Arkady]

From Prachathai. This is quite funny - Sondhi Limtrakul explaining in rather blunt terms why he thinks, if Sarayudh had really been a coup plotter, he might have found it embarrassing to be exposed as such, although, of course, he avoids making any judgment. For those who understand Thai the video clip is hilarious.

‘Serves you right’, says Sondhi to Surayud after Thaksin’s video link

02 April 2009

News

On March 30, PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul spoke to reporters about Thaksin's address to the red-shirted crowd attacking the 2006 coup masterminds, including Privy Councilor Gen Surayud Chulanond and Surayud's subsequent response. ‘I have no comment. No matter what Mr Surayud has to say, I have had no comment [about him] since he was Prime Minister.'

Asked how the big PAD meeting on 24 May would go, Sondhi said, ‘We have no problem at all. We just stay put. We think that this is a problem between the red shirts and Khun Thaksin and [Gen] Anupong Paojinda, and Khun Suthep Thaugsuban and Khun Newin Chidchob. They have problems to solve among themselves. If you've said you could solve the country's problems, so you just do it.

‘I don't see it as a disgrace; if they planned the coup, just say yes I did plan it, because I wanted to rescue the country. But do you know why he didn't dare say that? Because after the coup, he had no idea what to do. How dumb he was. He made everything worse. So he was awkward and tongue-tied.

‘I don't see any disgrace, if they seized power and revolutionized democracy, but they didn't revolutionize democracy. They just took power from Thaksin's cronies into their own hands. That's why they're speechless. It serves them right,' said Sondhi.

Asked if such a response showed that Thaksin's allegation was true, Sondhi said, ‘I don't know. It serves them right. Please publish, "I think you deserve it."

‘They staged the coup to take power into the hands of the junta and then Surayud. No changes were made. Now you get exposed, and you panic. I say I'm really content with that,' said Sondhi.

See video clip (in Thai): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h-nrmOFGp8

Source: สนธิสมน้ำหน้าคณะรัฐประหาร สะใจที่เจอโฟนอินแฉ

[Pierrot]

'I don't see it as a disgrace; if they planned the coup, just say yes I did plan it, because I wanted to rescue the country. But do you know why he didn't dare say that? Because after the coup, he had no idea what to do. How dumb he was. He made everything worse. So he was awkward and tongue-tied.

I believe it's the big problem in Thai politic. Get rid of Thaksin, right, but then what to do ???

It's not about Thaksin, the world is moving on and Thai society needs to adapt. You may or may not like Thaksin but there is no alternative. The Democrat should wake up, kick out Abhi and find a new, charismatic leader that can be elected for himself and not as a pawn for the old regime.

For a democratic society to function we need a majority and an opposition. We already have one side, we need the other one. It's about time the Democrats understand the problem is not Thaksin but the absence of any real alternative of their side.